Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?
Mr. FRAZIER. Robert A. Frazier.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Frazier, you have appeared before to testify, but will
you at this juncture again give us the outline of your occupation and
experience?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; I am a special agent of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation assigned to the FBI Laboratory, Washington, D.C.
I work in the firearms identification unit in the laboratory,
making examinations of firearms, bullets, the effects of bullets,
trajectories, firing tests, powder pattern tests, and various other
types of examinations.
(At this point Senator Cooper left the hearing room.)
Mr. SPECTER. Have you appeared heretofore before the Commission to
testify about examinations which you have conducted of the clothing
worn by President Kennedy, the clothing worn by Governor Connally,
the examination of the Presidential limousine and certain ballistics
information?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; I have.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you participate in the onsite tests at Dallas on May
24, 1964?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your position during most of the time of those
onsite tests?
Mr. FRAZIER. I was stationed at the window on the sixth floor of the
Texas School Book Depository Building at the southeast corner of the
building.
Mr. SPECTER. How far was that window open at the time the tests were
being conducted?
Mr. FRAZIER. I estimated it as approximately one-third. It was somewhat
less than halfway open.
Mr. SPECTER. Is that the distance depicted on Commission Exhibit No.
492, which has heretofore been introduced in evidence?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Is the distance open on that window about the same as that
which you had it open at the time these tests were run?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; I would say that this is very close. The window was
placed according to information already furnished to the Commission as
to how much it had been opened at that time.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you handle the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle during the
course of the onsite tests?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. The rifle previously identified as Commission Exhibit No.
139?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. SPECTER. At what position--what was the basis for your positioning
of that rifle during those tests?
Mr. FRAZIER. To position the rifle, we selected boxes of the same
size and contour as boxes shown in a photograph or rather in two
photographs, reportedly taken by the police department at Dallas
shortly after the assassination.
We placed these boxes in their relative position in front of the window
spacing them from left to right, according to the photographs which
were furnished to us, and also placing them up against the window,
with one of them resting on the window ledge as it was shown in the
photographs.
Mr. SPECTER. In addition to the placement of the boxes, were there any
other guides which you had for reconstructing the position of the rifle
to the way which you believed it to have been held on November 22, 1963?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; there was one physical obstruction in the
building which could not be moved consisting of two vertical pipes
located just at the left side of the sixth floor window. These
prevented me or anyone who was shooting from that window from moving
any further to the left.
The position of the rifle, of course, had to be such that it could be
sighted out through the window, using the telescopic sight high enough
above the window ledge so that the muzzle of the weapon would clear
the window ledge, and low enough in position so that the bottom of
the window, which was only partially raised, would not interfere with
a view through the telescopic sight, which is approximately 2 inches
higher than the actual bore of the weapon.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you position the rifle further, based on information
provided to you concerning the testimony of certain eyewitnesses at the
assassination scene concerning what they observed?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; we attempted to put the muzzle of the weapon
sufficiently far out the window so it would have been visible from
below.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Frazier, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 886, did
you view through the sight that depicted in "photograph through rifle
scope" on the positioning of the Presidential limousine or the car to
simulate the limousine at position A?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; this would be the first position that an
individual in that sixth floor window could sight at the car due to the
interference of the window ledge of the building and the fact that the
angle downward is limited by the partially lowered window.
Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you Commission Exhibit No. 888 and ask you if
you had the view depicted on the "photograph through the rifle scope"
shown on that exhibit?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; this Exhibit No. 888 is frame 161, and is
the position at which I had the car stopped just before the spot,
indicating the entrance wound on the back of the President's stand-in,
passed into the foliage of the tree.
Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you Exhibits Nos. 889, 890, and 891, and ask
you if you had the view on each of those depicted in the "photograph
through rifle scope"?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; Commission No. 889 represented by frame 166 is
the adjusted position to account for the fact that the Presidential
stand-in on May 24 was actually 10 inches higher in the air above the
street than the President would have been in the Presidential limousine.
Mr. DULLES. Would you explain to us simply how you made those
adjustments?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. I mean how did you get him down 10 inches as a practical
matter.
Mr. FRAZIER. They had marked on the back of the President's coat the
location of the wound, according to the distance from the top of his
head down to the hole in his back as shown in the autopsy figures. They
then held a ruler, a tape measure up against that, both the back of
the Presidential stand-in-and the back of the Governor's stand-in, and
looking through the scope you could estimate the 10-inch distance down
on the automobile.
You could not actually see it on the President's back. But could
locate that 10-inch distance as a point which we marked with tape on
the automobile itself, both for the Presidential and the Governor's
stand-in.
Mr. DULLES. Thank you.
Mr. FRAZIER. Continuing with Commission Exhibit No. 890, represented by
frame----
Mr. McCLOY. Hold that around so I can see it.
Mr. FRAZIER. Represented by frame 185, this is the first or rather the
only position through the foliage of the tree at which a person from
the sixth floor could get a clear shot at the back of the President,
and I had the car stopped at this position and then we determined that
this was frame 185 from the Zapruder films.