Mr. DULLES. Could I ask there, would the size and character of this
hole indicate the condition of the bullet, I mean as to whether it was
tumbling or whether it was a mutilated bullet or anything of that kind?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; it would not.
Mr. DULLES. Even a bullet in full flight, full velocity could have made
this kind of a hole in the shirt?
Mr. FRAZIER. It could have, particularly if the shirt had been wrinkled
at the time it passed through, and particularly because the material in
this shirt tore rather severely at the time the object passed through,
indicating a very weak structure of the cotton fiber, so that it would
tear out of all proportion to a stronger fabric.
And for that reason, the shape of the hole could be affected by the
condition of the material as well as any folds in the material or, as
you say, by a mutilated bullet or a passage of a bullet through the
cloth at an angle to the surface or the passing of a bullet partially
sideways through the cloth.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. DULLES. Will you proceed?
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Frazier, what, if any, defect or hole did you observe
on the right sleeve of the Governor's shirt?
Mr. FRAZIER. I found in the cuff of the shirt which is a French cuff,
through both the outer and inner layers of the cuff, a hole which is
ragged in contour, irregularly shaped, and which had more or less
star-shaped tears extending outward from the hole into the material,
located 1-1/2 inches up from the end of the sleeve, and 5-1/2 inches
from the outside cuff link hole, through both, as I said, through both
layers of the cuff, and the hole was in such a condition, possibly
due to the washing of the material, that I could not determine what
actually caused it or if it had been caused by a bullet, the direction
of the path of the bullet with reference to entrance and exit.
Mr. SPECTER. Could those holes have been caused by a bullet passing
through the Governor's wrist from the dorsal or upper portion to the
volar or palmar side?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; they could.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to examine the trousers which have
been heretofore identified in Commission hearings as those worn by
Governor Connally on November 22, 1963?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, I did.
Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that Mr. Frazier has taken and is
observing the trousers which have been identified in the record,
through a picture of the front side, bearing Commission Exhibit No. 687
and a picture of the rear side bearing Commission Exhibit No. 688.
Now, referring to those trousers, what if anything did you observe in
the nature of a defect or hole, Mr. Frazier?
Mr. FRAZIER. In the area which would be the left-knee area of the
person wearing the trousers, there was a hole which is roughly circular
in shape, and approximately one-quarter of an inch in diameter with
some possible expansion of the hole due to slight tearing of the cloth
at the outer margins of the hole.
Mr. SPECTER. Had the trousers been cleaned and pressed prior to your
examination?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Were there sufficient characteristics available for you to
formulate any conclusion as to the cause of that hole?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I can say that it had the general appearance of a
bullet hole but I could not determine the direction of the bullet if,
in fact, it had been caused by a bullet.
Mr. SPECTER. What are the characteristics which led you to believe that
it had the characteristics of a bullet hole?
Mr. FRAZIER. It has the roughly circular shape with slight tearing away
from the edges of the material.
Mr. SPECTER. Is there any other hole on the trousers which could be a
hole of exit?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Frazier, did you have occasion to examine an
automobile which was the vehicle used customarily by the President of
the United States in parades?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; I did.
Mr. SPECTER. When did that examination occur?
Mr. FRAZIER. In the early morning hours of November 23, 1963, at the
Secret Service garage here in Washington, D.C.
Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you a photograph previously identified for the
record as Commission Exhibit No. 344 and ask you if that depicts the
car which you examined?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; it is.
Mr. SPECTER. I hand you a subsequent exhibit of the Commission, No.
346, showing the interior view of the automobile and ask you if that
depicts the automobile which you examined?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; however, it wasn't in this condition. It wasn't
as clean as it is in Exhibit 346.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the condition with respect to cleanliness?
Mr. FRAZIER. There were blood and particles of flesh scattered all over
the hood, the windshield, in the front seat and all over the rear floor
rugs, the jump seats, and over the rear seat, and down both sides of
the side rails or tops of the doors of the car.
Mr. SPECTER. Is that condition depicted by Commission Exhibits 352 and
353 to the extent that they show the interior of the automobile?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the purpose of the examination which you made of
the car at that time and place?
Mr. FRAZIER. I examined the car to determine whether or not there were
any bullet fragments present in it, embedded in the upholstery of the
back of the front seat, or whether there were any impact areas which
indicated that bullets or bullet fragments struck the inside of the car.
Mr. SPECTER. With respect to the fragments first, what did your
examination disclose?
Mr. FRAZIER. We found three small lead particles lying on the rug in
the rear seat area. These particles were located underneath or in the
area which would be underneath the left jump seat.
Mr. SPECTER. Have those particles been identified during the course of
your prior testimony?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; they have not?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you produce them at this time then, please? May we
assign to this group of particles Commission Exhibit No. 840?
Mr. DULLES. These have not been discussed before, have they?
Mr. SPECTER. They have not.
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit No. 840.
(Commission Exhibit No. 840 was marked for identification and received
in evidence.)
Mr. SPECTER. I move formally for their admission, then, into evidence
at this time.
Mr. DULLES. They shall be admitted.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe the three pieces of metal which are
contained within this vial, please?
Mr. FRAZIER. The three pieces of metal are lead. They were weighed
immediately upon recovery and were found to weigh nine-tenths of
a grain, seven-tenths of a grain, and seven-tenths of a grain,
respectively. Since that time small portions have been removed for
spectrographic analysis and comparison with other bullets and bullet
fragments.
Mr. SPECTER. Has that comparison been made with a whole bullet
heretofore identified as Commission Exhibit 399 which in other
proceedings has been identified as the bullet from the Connally
stretcher?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; the comparison was made by comparing Exhibit
399 with a bullet fragment found in the front seat of the Presidential
limousine and then comparing that fragment with these fragments from
the rear seat of the automobile.
Mr. SPECTER. For identification purposes, has that fragment from the
front seat been heretofore identified during your prior testimony?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; it has. It bears Commission No. 567.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, what did the comparative examination then disclose as
among Commission Exhibits 399, 567, and 840?
Mr. FRAZIER. That examination was performed by a spectrographer, John
F. Gallagher, and I do not have the results of his examinations here,
although I did ascertain that it was determined that the lead fragments
were similar in composition.
Mr. SPECTER. So that they could have come from, so that the fragments
designated 840 could have come from the same bullet as fragment
designated 567?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Were the tests sufficient to indicate conclusively whether
fragments 840 did come from the fragment designated as 567?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you personally find any other fragments in the
President's car during the course of your examination?
Mr. FRAZIER. No; I did not.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, where, according to information provided to you then,
was the fragment designated Commission Exhibit 567 found?
Mr. FRAZIER. That was found by the Secret Service upon their
examination of the limousine here in Washington when it first arrived
from Dallas, and Commission No. 567 was delivered by Deputy Chief
Paul Paterni and by a White House detail chief, Floyd M. Boring, to a
liaison agent of the FBI, Orrin Bartlett, who delivered them to me in
the laboratory at 11:50 p.m., on November 22, 1963.
Mr. SPECTER. Does that constitute the total chain of possession then
from the finder with the Secret Service into your hands, as reflected
on the records of the FBI?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there another fragment, was there any other fragment
found in the front seat of the car?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes. Alongside the right side of the front seat,
Commission Exhibit No. 569, which is the base portion of the jacket of
a bullet, was found, and handled in identical manner to the Exhibit 567.
Mr. DULLES. And the front seat is the seat which would be the driver's
seat?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. And the Secret Service man on his right, I believe?
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman.
Mr. DULLES. That was the seat from which this came?
Mr. FRAZIER. Commission Exhibit 567 was found on the seat right beside
the driver, and Exhibit 569 was found on the floor beside the right
side of the front seat.
Mr. SPECTER. The right side of the front seat, Mr. Dulles, as the
prior testimony shows was occupied by Roy Kellerman and the driver was
William Greer.
Mr. DULLES. Right. Thank you.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you state what the chain of possession was from
the time of discovery of Exhibit 569 until the time it came into your
possession, based on the records of the FBI, please, if you have those
records available?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. It was delivered by Secret Service Deputy Chief
Paul Paterni, and SAC of the White House detail Floyd M. Boring of the
Secret Service again, to Special Agent Orrin Bartlett of the FBI who
delivered it to me at 11:50 p.m. on November 22, 1963.
Mr. SPECTER. Are the records which you have just referred to relating
to the chain of possession of Exhibits 567 and 569 maintained by you in
the normal course of your duties as an examiner of those items?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Frazier, is it possible for the fragments identified
in Commission Exhibit 840 to have come from the whole bullet heretofore
identified as Commission Exhibit 399?
Mr. FRAZIER. I would say that based on weight it would be highly
improbable that that much weight could have come from the base of that
bullet since its present weight is--its weight when I first received it
was 158.6 grains.
Mr. SPECTER. Referring now to 399.
Mr. FRAZIER. Exhibit 399, and its original normal weight would be 160
to 161 grains, and those three metal fragments had a total of 2.1
grains as I recall--2.3 grains. So it is possible but not likely since
there is only a very small part of the core of the bullet 399 missing.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you now described all of the bullet fragments which
you found in the President's automobile?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Was it your job to analyze all of the bullets or bullet
fragments which were found in the President's car?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; it was, except for the spectrographic analysis of the
composition.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you now described all of the bullet fragments which
were brought to you by anyone else and identified as having been found
in the President's car?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; not this morning but at previous times during my
testimony I have; yes.
Mr. SPECTER. But then there is on the record now all of the
identification of the metallic or bullet fragments found in connection
with your examination of the President's car or which were examined by
you after having been found by someone else?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir. There is one other, it is not a metal particle
but it is a residue of metal on the inside of the windshield.
Mr. SPECTER. Aside from that residue of the windshield which I am going
to come to now, have we placed on the record a description of all of
the bullets or bullet fragments?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.