The testimony of William W. Whaley was taken at 1:50 p.m., on April 8,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant
counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN. Would you want to stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. WHALEY. I do, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Would you state your name, please.
Mr. WHALEY. William W. Whaley.
Mr. BELIN. You live in Dallas, Mr. Whaley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You previously testified before the Commission in
Washington, is that correct?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now before you came to Washington, did you and I ever meet?
Mr. WHALEY. Your face is familiar, sir. I still can't tell you whether
I knew you here, or in Washington, or where?
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this.
Mr. WHALEY. You refresh my memory.
Mr. BELIN. I will try to refresh your memory here. When did you come to
Washington, approximately?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, it's been about 2 or 3 weeks ago, sir. I don't
remember the exact date.
Mr. BELIN. You testified before the President's Commission on the
Assassination of President Kennedy in Washington, did you not?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now Mr. Ball and I were with you earlier today over the noon
hour, is that correct?
Mr. WHALEY. That's correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Ball and I saw you in Washington, is that correct?
Mr. WHALEY. Now I don't know if that is correct or not, but your face
is very familiar.
Mr. BELIN. You think you have seen me before?
Mr. WHALEY. I don't know.
Mr. BELIN. It might have been in Washington when you were there?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; it could have been.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Whaley, today at noon there were six people including
yourself that got in the car to travel that route that you drove a
passenger on November 22, is that correct?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. One of them is sitting here in this room, Dr. Goldberg, over
there. Do you see him?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you and I got in the car, and then Secret Service Agent
John Joe Hewlett. We drove in his car and he was the driver, wasn't he?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then there was Mr. Joe Ball, Joseph A. Ball, and then a Mr.
Davis, this tall light-haired person?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Davis is from the attorney general's office in Texas.
Now what is the fact as to whether or not we went to the Greyhound Bus
Depot here in Dallas?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you point out the place where you said you picked up
this passenger?
Mr. WHALEY. I did, sir.
Mr. BELIN. We had a stopwatch, didn't we?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you directed us to take a certain route, is that
correct?
Mr. WHALEY. That's correct.
Mr. BELIN. What was the route from the Greyhound Bus Depot that you
directed us?
Mr. WHALEY. On the right from the Greyhound and Lamar to Jackson; right
on Jackson and left at Austin and right at Wood.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. WHALEY. Then left on Houston, which is the approach to the viaduct.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do when you got to Houston?
You turned left?
Mr. WHALEY. I said west to Houston.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you go?
Mr. WHALEY. You go on the approach past the Union Terminal and up the
ramp which is called the Houston Street viaduct.
Mr. BELIN. Then what?
Mr. WHALEY. You run into Zangs Boulevard.
Mr. BELIN. How far on Zangs?
Mr. WHALEY. To Beckley. Beckley crosses it. We got to the intersection
of Zangs and Beckley.
Mr. BELIN. Did we go about the speed you drove that day?
Mr. WHALEY. Almost. Going across the viaduct is just about the speed,
but he slowed down going up Zangs Boulevard. He slowed down a little
slower than I was going.
My normal rate of speed, I don't remember the exact speed I was
traveling, but I assume it was normal, because that is the way I travel
all the time when traffic is clear enough.
Mr. BELIN. Your normal rate of speed would be a little bit faster than
the rate that he took?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. In other words, not enough to make over half a
minute difference in the timing.
Mr. BELIN. Was traffic clearer on that particular day of November 22?
Mr. WHALEY. It was extra clear, for some reason. That street was clear
except when I hit Beckley. When I hit Beckley, there was cars turning
to the left, and I had to stop for the light.
Mr. BELIN. When we got to Beckley at noon today, or shortly thereafter,
the traffic light was green, but you told us you had stopped, so we
waited through the red light, did we not?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then he turned on Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Heading south?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now when this man that you picked up on November 22 got into
your cab, where did he say he wanted to go?
Mr. WHALEY. To the 500 block of North Beckley.
Mr. BELIN. I will take you back to November 22.
You turned south on Beckley and then where did you go as you turned
south on Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. I went right up on Beckley headed toward the 500 block.
Mr. BELIN. Then what happened?
Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley
and Neely, he said, "This will do right here," and I pulled up to the
curb.
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of
North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?
Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.
Mr. BELIN. Then you went down to the police station to identify this
man?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You saw a lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what number he was in the lineup at all?
Mr. WHALEY. There was four of them, sir, and from the right to the
left, he was No. 3.
Mr. BELIN. Starting from the right to the left, from his right or your
right?
Mr. WHALEY. From your right, sir, which would have been his left. There
were numbers above their heads, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Whaley, what number did you say the man was in the
lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. No. 2.
Mr. BELIN. From the right or from your right?
Mr. WHALEY. From my left.
Mr. BELIN. No. 2?
Mr. WHALEY. They brought out four of them and stood them up there, and
he was under No. 2. I mentioned he was the third one that come out.
There were four and all handcuffed together.
Mr. BELIN. Did you sign an affidavit for the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. I will hand you a document which I am calling Whaley
Deposition Exhibit A, and ask you to say if your signature appears on
there?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is my signature.
Mr. BELIN. Now I notice in the statement there it says that you
traveled Wood Street to Houston Street, turned left and went over the
viaduct to Zangs Boulevard. You see that statement there?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. "Traveled Zangs to Beckley and turned left and traveled on
Beckley until I reached the 500 block of North Beckley. When I got in
the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped."
Now is that what you told them on that day?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is what I told them on that day.
Mr. BELIN. Well, was that the fact that you drove until you reached the
500 block, or not?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, I didn't drive until I reached the 500 block. I
drove until I reached Beckley and Neely. If you would be in my place
when they took me down there, when they had to force their way through
the reporters to get me in the office, they wrote that up, and I signed
it, because I told them that the man said he wanted to go to the 500
block of North Beckley.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now in here it says, "The No. 3 man who I now
know is Lee Harvey Oswald was the man who I carried from the Greyhound
Bus Station * * *"
Was this the No. 3 or the No. 2 man?
Mr. WHALEY. I signed that statement before they carried me down to see
the lineup. I signed this statement, and then they carried me down to
the lineup at 2:30 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. You signed this affidavit before you saw the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, now, let's get this straight. You are getting me
confused.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I will put it this way. There was an FBI reporter, FBI
interviewer with you?
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir; there was.
Mr. BELIN. And there was an interview with the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes. And Bill Alexander from the district attorney's office
was there, also.
Mr. BELIN. All right, now, the last sentence.
Mr. WHALEY. Let me tell you how they fixed this up. They had me in the
office saying that. They were writing it out on paper, and they wrote
it out on paper, and this officer, Leavelle, I think that is his name,
before he finished and before I signed he wanted me to go with him to
the lineup, so I went to the lineup, and I come back and he asked me
which one it was, which number it was, and I identified the man, and we
went back up in the office again, and then they had me sign this. That
is as near as I can remember.
My recollection for that afternoon in that office was very disturbed
because everytime they would open the door, some flash camera would
flash in your face and everybody coming in and out and asking you
questions.
Mr. BELIN. You mean reporters?
Mr. WHALEY. I made this statement more to Bill Alexander, because I
tried to talk to him more. Everybody was trying to talk to me at once.
Mr. BELIN. When you saw the statement the first time, did you see the
statement before you went down to see the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. No; I didn't see the statement. I don't think I did. I am
not for sure.
I think I signed it after I came back. It was on paper. They were
writing it up on paper.
Mr. BELIN. They were writing?
Mr. WHALEY. Before I left there, I signed this typewritten, because
they had to get, a stenographer typed it up. I had to wait.
Mr. BELIN. But was this before or after you saw the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. After she typed it up. It was after.
Mr. BELIN. It was after?
Mr. WHALEY. That is when I signed it, after.
Mr. BELIN. Now, when you signed it--what I want to know is, before you
went down, had they already put on there a statement that the man you
saw was the No. 3 man in the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. I don't remember that. I don't remember whether it said
three or two, or what.
Mr. BELIN. Did they have any statements on there before you went down
to the lineup?
Mr. WHALEY. I never saw what they had in there. It was all written out
by hand. The statement I saw, I think, was this one, and that could be
writing. I might not even seen this one yet. I signed my name because
they said that is what I said.