Mr. BALL. Wait a minute--did you hear the shots before or after you had
your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Before--before I ate my lunch.
Mr. BALL. You heard shots before you ate your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Let's see--yes, I believe I did.
Mr. BALL. Well, now, you remember having your lunch, do you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember after you had your lunch, you went back to
work that day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. When you talked on the day this accident happened, on the
22d of November 1963, in a statement made to the Federal Bureau of
Investigation and, Mr. Dougherty, you told them you went down to the
first floor to eat your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. That's right.
Mr. BALL. And that you went back to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you told him on the 19th day of December, Mr. Johnson,
that you went back to work on the sixth floor, and as soon as you
arrived on the sixth floor, you went down to the fifth floor to get
some stock?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir; that's right.
Mr. BALL. And while you were on the fifth floor, you heard a loud noise?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. That's right--it sounded like a car backfiring.
Mr. BALL. And did you hear more than one loud explosion or noise?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No; that was the only one I heard.
Mr. BALL. You only heard one?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And where did it sound like it came from?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. It sounded like it came from overhead somewhere.
Mr. BALL. From overhead?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How did you get to the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Elevator.
Mr. BALL. You were on the fifth floor when you heard this, were you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Which elevator did you take?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, you see, there's one on this side and one on this
side--the one on this side is the one I took.
Mr. BALL. Well, now, "The one on this side and the one on this side,"
doesn't mean much when it's written down.
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I know it.
Mr. BALL. Can you tell me whether it was the east side or the west side
elevator?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. East side.
Mr. BALL. Is it the one that you punch a button on?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Or the one that you use a control on?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. It's the one you push a button on.
Mr. BALL. The one you push a button on?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. I believe that is the west side, isn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, I believe it is.
Mr. BALL. Now, that's the one you took up?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where did you take that--to what floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I took it up to the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, when I got through getting stock off of the sixth
floor, I came back down to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. What did you do on the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I got some stock.
Mr. BALL. Then what happened then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, then immediately I heard a loud noise--it sounded
like a car backfiring, and I came back down to the first floor, and I
asked Eddie Piper, I said, "Piper, what was that?" I says, "Has the
President been shot?" He said, "Yes."
Mr. BALL. You didn't say--did you say, "Has the President been
shot?"--you told the FBI agent that you went down to the first floor
and you saw a man named Eddie Piper and asked him if he heard a loud
noise.
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I asked him that too.
Mr. BALL. And Piper said he had heard three loud noises and told you
that somebody had just shot the President; is that right?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. That's right.
Mr. BALL. Who mentioned the fact that the President had been shot
first--you or Eddie Piper?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL. Did you say anything to Piper about the President being shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. When you talked to Eddie Piper, did you know that the
President had been shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No, sir; I didn't know that at the time.
Mr. BALL. When is the first time you heard that the President had been
shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. When Eddie told me that.
Mr. BALL. Eddie told you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You told Mr. Johnson of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
that when you were on the fifth floor, you heard a loud noise and it
appeared to have come from within the building, but you couldn't tell
where--you told him that on the 19th; did you tell him that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. On the day that this happened, on the 22d of November, you
told the FBI agents Ellington and Anderton that you heard "a loud
explosion which sounded like a rifle shot coming from the next floor
above me."
Now, did you tell them that it sounded like a rifle shot, coming from
the next floor above you, or didn't you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well; I believe I told them it sounded like a car
backfiring.
Mr. BALL. Well, did you tell them it sounded like it was from the floor
above you, or didn't you tell them that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. You did not tell them that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. Did it sound like it came from the floor above you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, at the time it did--yes.
Mr. BALL. Tell me this--when you heard that explosion or whatever
it was--that loud noise, where were you on the fifth floor--tell me
exactly where you were?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I was about 10 feet from the west elevator--the
west side of the elevator.
Mr. BALL. That's the elevator that uses the push button; is that right?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And what were you doing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I was getting some stock.
Mr. BALL. And what did you do then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I came on back downstairs.
Mr. BALL. How did you come downstairs?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I used that push button elevator on the west side.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear Mr. Truly yell anything up the elevator shaft?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I didn't hear anybody yell.
Mr. BALL. Or, did you see Mr. Truly?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, when the FBI men--I imagine it was who it was--he
showed me his credentials, but he asked me who the manager was, and I
told him, "Mr. Truly." He told me to go find him. Well, I didn't know
where he was so I started from the first floor and just started looking
for him, and by the time I got to the sixth floor, they had found a gun
and shells.
Mr. BALL. When you went up to the sixth floor, it was after they found
the shotgun and shells?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir; and I found out later he was on the fourth
floor, which I didn't find.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see a gun around there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No, sir; I sure didn't.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see anybody with a gun in the place?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any strangers in the building that day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL. Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw
him carrying a fairly good-sized package.
Mr. BALL. When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, it was--the day after it happened.
Mr. BALL. Are you sure you were on the fifth floor when you heard the
shots?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, I'm positive.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any other employee on the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No, sir; I didn't see nobody--there wasn't nobody on the
fifth floor at all--it was just myself.
Mr. BALL. You told me that just before you heard the shots, you had
been on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And then you went down to the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. That's right.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody on the sixth floor when you were there,
before you went to the fifth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Oh, yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. Who?