Mr. BELIN. Sergeant, now, do you know where that ledge is now?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Between what floors is the ledge?
Mr. HARKNESS. The ledge is between, over the sixth floor.
Mr. BELIN. All right, well here in your police report I show you Sawyer
Deposition Exhibit A, you said the, "Witness says shots came from fifth
floor Texas School Book Depository." Did the witness say it was from
the sixth floor, or did he say it was from the fifth floor?
Mr. HARKNESS. He said it was from the fifth floor.
Mr. BELIN. What were the exact words of the witness?
Mr. HARKNESS. The exact words of the witness "It was under the ledge,"
which would put it on the sixth floor. It was my error in a hasty count
of the floors.
Mr. BELIN. Did the witness say what particular window on that floor
that he saw it on?
On the floor under the ledge?
Mr. HARKNESS. Said it was the last window, which would indicate it
would be the last window on the east side of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say to his right as he saw it, or did he just say the
last window from where he was standing?
Mr. HARKNESS. Last window from where he was standing, and at that point
it would indicate that it would be the last window on the east side of
the building facing Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN. Were you standing at the time, on the north or south side of
Elm when you talked to this witness?
Mr. HARKNESS. I was.
Mr. BELIN. When you were with this witness, had this Amos Euins, were
you standing on the north or the south side of Elm as it goes into the
Parkway there?
Mr. HARKNESS. Elm as it goes under the Parkway--was between Elm where
it goes under the triple underpass, and the extension of Elm there in
that park area.
Mr. BELIN. So that is where you were standing?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. So that would be north of Elm as it goes into the underpass,
but south of the extension of Elm?
Mr. HARKNESS. Where that building is, yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Would you have been west of the School Book Depository
Building at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. So the witness pointed to the last one on that floor? That
would be the last one which would be to the east, is that correct?
Mr. HARKNESS. That's correct.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can remember this witness said?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say whether or not he saw a rifle?
Mr. HARKNESS. He couldn't tell.
Mr. BELIN. Sergeant, do you remember anything else that you said?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you actually talk to any other person whose name you
recorded in your little book there?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir; Arnold Rowland.
Mr. BELIN. Arnold Rowland?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did he say?
Mr. HARKNESS. He said that he saw a man on one of those floors. He
didn't clearly identify it, as he saw a man with a high-powered rifle
walking around up there.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything else that you could have recorded there?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you remember?
Mr. HARKNESS. Except his address. I have his address as 3026 Hammerly.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything else?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else that happened that day that might in
any way be relevant to this investigation?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do on Saturday?
Mr. HARKNESS. Saturday I was assigned to traffic at Elm and Houston,
between Elm and Main.
Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else that you did on Saturday or on Sunday
that might in any way be relevant to this area of inquiry?
Mr. HARKNESS. On Saturday had a large crowd down there, and I observed
Jack Ruby at the entrance of the jail down there on Saturday.
Mr. BELIN. You saw Jack Ruby near the entrance of the jail on Saturday?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Has your statement already been taken by anyone before on
the President's Commission?
Mr. HARKNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. But you did see Jack Ruby?
Mr. HARKNESS. I testified in Ruby's trial to that effect.
Mr. BELIN. Anyone else or anything else that might be in any way
relevant here?
Mr. HARKNESS. The only thing, on Sunday I was leaving town; going to
Whitesboro, and my wife and kids, we heard over the radio that Oswald
had been shot.
When I arrived in Whitesboro, I called Capt. Fritz of the Dallas Police
Department, and told him that I had seen Ruby near the entrance of the
county jail the day before, which was a Saturday.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else?
Mr. HARKNESS. That is all.
Mr. BELIN. But did you ever talk to Ruby at any time afterwards?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir; not afterwards.
Mr. BELIN. Did you know Ruby at all, or not?
Mr. HARKNESS. I had met him, and being downtown traffic sergeant, I had
seen him before, and I knew who he was, but other than that, that is
all.
Mr. BELIN. Is there any other thing you can think of, whether I have
asked it or not, that might in any way be relevant to the investigation
of the assassination or the shooting of Officer Tippit?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir; I don't have anything on that, other than what I
heard over the radio.
Mr. BELIN. By the way, did your witness ever say whether the person he
saw at the window was a white man or Negro?
Mr. HARKNESS. He just told me, he just said he couldn't identify him.
That is what he told me.
Mr. BELIN. Did he tell you whether or not it was a man?
Mr. HARKNESS. I don't remember, because I knew I couldn't get any
information out of him, enough to put out a description on it.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else?
Mr. HARKNESS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Sir, we want to thank you very much for coming down here and
testifying.
You have an opportunity, if you would like, to come back and read your
deposition when it is typed, and sign it, or you can waive reading and
signing it and just have the court reporter send the transcript to us
directly in Washington. If you have any preference, you might let us
know.
Mr. HARKNESS. I have no preference. I just hope I have been able to
help you on these directions, because they are complicated to give
directions, especially when you try to convince.
Mr. BELIN. In any event, do you want to sign or waive signing? You have
a right to sign or you can waive the signing of it and send it directly
to us, whatever you want to do.
Mr. HARKNESS. Waiver is customary? It doesn't make any difference.
Mr. BELIN. Some people do one way and some the other way. Do you want
to come back and read it and sign it, or do you want to waive signing
it and let the court reporter send us the transcript direct?
Mr. HARKNESS. What has most of them been doing?
Mr. BELIN. Gosh, I have them doing both ways. I couldn't tell you what
most have been doing, sir.
Mr. HARKNESS. I will just waive.