Mr. BALL. Two motorcycles abreast?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. As you turned onto Houston from Main, can you tell me about
the speed of the President's car?
Mr. MARTIN. My estimation would be 4 to 5 miles an hour when we made
the turn onto Elm Street from Houston.
Mr. BALL. From Houston?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you make the turn from Main to Houston about the
same speed?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; we were going a little faster, I would
say--between probably 10 and 15 miles an hour.
Mr. BALL. And then the block between Main and Elm, did the motorcade
slow down?
Mr. MARTIN. It slowed down just before we made the turn onto Elm Street.
Mr. BALL. Let's take the President's car--what do you think the speed
of the President's car was as you made that turn from Houston onto Elm?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe the speed was about 4 or 5 miles an hour.
Mr. BALL. What was your speed?
Mr. MARTIN. Approximately the same--maybe a mile slower.
Mr. BALL. Were you able to maintain your position on the two-wheeler
motorcycle?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I believe I did.
Mr. BALL. What is the minimum speed at which you can maintain the
position of that motorcycle?
Mr. MARTIN. About 2 miles per hour, I would imagine.
Mr. BALL. Did the President's car pick up any speed from the corner of
Houston and Elm--we'll say half way down that hill?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; I don't recall it picking up any speed in there.
Mr. BALL. They were going fairly slow?
Mr. MARTIN. It may have picked up, gradually picked up, but not enough
that I could notice.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear any unusual noise?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I heard a shot, or what I thought at the time to
be a shot.
Mr. BALL. What was the position of your motorcycle at that time with
reference to the President's car?
Mr. MARTIN. Just to the rear of his car--on the left rear of his car.
Mr. BALL. How far from the car, I'll say, to the left of the car and
then how far to the rear--so I can get some idea of your position?
Mr. MARTIN. I would say that my motor was 5-foot to the left and
approximately 6- to 8-foot to the rear.
Mr. BALL. Of the President's car?
Mr. MARTIN. Of the President's car.
Mr. BALL. Were you anywhere near the front end of the Secret Service
car?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. The car the Secret Service men were in?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; we were alongside the front end of their car, because
one of the agents got off of the car after the first shot. The best I
can remember--I was fairly close to him--he was the person riding on
the fender of the car and the first agent from the front of the car,
and I was fairly close to him when he jumped off of the car.
Mr. BALL. Now, where was the motorcycle driven by Mr. Hargis, with
reference to your right or to your left?
Mr. MARTIN. He was to my right when we made the turn on Houston Street.
Mr. BALL. At the time you heard this shot, where was he?
Mr. MARTIN. I presume he was still to my right. I don't recall seeing
him after the shots.
Mr. BALL. He would have been closer to the President's car than you
would have?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir--he would have been--I would say 3- or 4-foot
closer than I was.
Mr. BALL. You traveled along the street about 3 or 4 feet apart from
each other?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir--something like that.
Mr. BALL. When you heard the first shot, did you have any idea of the
direction which the shot was coming from?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; I didn't. I couldn't tell from which direction it
was coming--any of the shots.
Mr. BALL. Did you look?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I looked back to my right.
Mr. BALL. After which shot?
Mr. MARTIN. After the first shot.
Mr. BALL. You looked to your right?
Mr. MARTIN. I looked back to my right.
Mr. BALL. What did you look at?
Mr. MARTIN. At the building on the right there.
Mr. BALL. Is that the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; it is.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. As you turned to the right, did you turn your motorcycle
also, or did you turn your body?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe I just turned my body. I don't believe I ever
turned my motor. I believe I kept my motor headed down Elm Street--west
on Elm.
Mr. BALL. Did you take any notice of the President after the first shot?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I looked at the President after I heard the shot
and he was leaning forward--I could see the left side of his face. At
the time he had no expression on his face.
Mr. BALL. Then, did you hear some more shots?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. How many?
Mr. MARTIN. Two more shots.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything when you looked at the School Depository
Building?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir--just the building.
Mr. BALL. And were you able to tell--to determine or did you have any
opinion, as to the direction from which the shots were coming--the last
two shots--from which direction they came?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; you couldn't tell just where they were coming from.
Mr. BALL. Was there any breeze that day?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; there was.
Mr. BALL. From what direction?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe it was blowing out of the southwest at that
particular location. It seemed like we were going to turn into the wind
as we turned off of Houston onto Elm.
Mr. BALL. The wind was in your face?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; the best I can recall.
Mr. BALL. Now, afterward, did the motorcade pick up speed then?
Mr. MARTIN. After we turned onto Houston?
Mr. BALL. No; after the shots?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes--after the shots we picked up speed.
Mr. BALL. Did you go on to Parkland?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I did. I rode just part of the time alongside of
the President's car. At times we were forced to the rear because of the
pedestrians standing out on Stemmons and there just wasn't enough room
to ride in there.
Mr. BALL. Could you see the President?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; I couldn't see him--immediately after the first
shot I saw him and after that I couldn't see him.
Mr. BALL. And did you see the Governor at all?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir. I didn't pay any attention to the Governor.
Mr. BALL. Now, when you got to Parkland Hospital, what did you do?
Mr. MARTIN. We pulled into the emergency entrance to Parkland Hospital.
The traffic had already begun to stack up and the officers ahead of
the motorcade went on down into the exit and I stopped off at the
first turn into the exit about 50 or 60 yards from the entrance to the
emergency and began to cut traffic so they wouldn't block the roadway
down into the emergency and then we had to park cars--just a lot of
people got out of their cars and it was all blocked up and we had to
park cars and just generally work traffic around there.
Mr. BALL. You had a white helmet on?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you notice any stains on your helmet?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; during the process of working traffic there, I
noticed that there were blood stains on the windshield on my motor and
then I pulled off my helmet and I noticed there were blood stains on
the left side of my helmet.
Mr. BALL. To give a more accurate description of the left side, could
you tell us about where it started with reference to the forehead?
Mr. MARTIN. It was just to the left--of what would be the center of
my forehead--approximately halfway, about a quarter of the helmet had
spots of blood on it.
Mr. BALL. And were there any other spots of any other material on the
helmet there besides blood?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; there was other matter that looked like pieces of
flesh.
Mr. BALL. What about your uniform?
Mr. MARTIN. There was blood and matter on my left shoulder of my
uniform.
Mr. BALL. You pointed to a place in front of your shoulder, about the
clavicle region?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Is that about where it was?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. On the front of your uniform and not on the side?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. That would be left, was it?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; on the left side.
Mr. BALL. And just below the level of the shoulder?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And what spots were there?
Mr. MARTIN. They were blood spots and other matter.
Mr. BALL. And what did you notice on your windshield?
Mr. MARTIN. There was blood and other matter on my windshield and also
on the motor.
Mr. BALL. Was the blood noticeable--were there large splotches?
Mr. MARTIN. No; they weren't large splotches, they were small--it was
not very noticeable unless you looked at it.
Mr. BALL. Was the discoloration on your helmet noticeable?
Mr. MARTIN. Not too much--no--as a matter of fact, there were other
people around there and two more officers there and they never noticed
it.
Mr. BALL. At that time were you with Mr. Hargis?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; I don't believe that he went to the hospital with
us. I believe he stopped there at the scene of the shooting.
Mr. BALL. And did you ever see his helmet or his uniform or the
windshield of his motorcycle?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir--I never recall seeing him again until the next day.
Mr. BALL. Now, was this blood on the outside or the inside of your
windshield?
Mr. MARTIN. It was on the outside of my windshield.
Mr. BALL. Was it on the right or left side?
Mr. MARTIN. It was on the outside of my windshield.
Mr. BALL. And what about the fender of the motorcycle?
Mr. MARTIN. It was just in the front--right on the front just above the
cowling on the motorcycle.
Mr. BALL. You say that when you first heard the first shot you thought
it was rifle fire?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir--the sharp crack of it.
Mr. BALL. Are you familiar with guns?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever fire a rifle?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you own a rifle?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You have been hunting, I suppose?
Mr. MARTIN. I just returned.
Mr. BALL. You've shot high-powered rifles, have you?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, what do you think the speed of the President's car
was--give me your best estimate of the speed of the President's car
when you heard the first shot?
Mr. MARTIN. I would say it was under 10 miles an hour--between 5 and 10
at that particular time, about the time of the shots.
Mr. BALL. You were going downhill at that time?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir. The best I remember--I wasn't having any trouble
keeping my motor up at that time, so that it was probably between 5 and
10 miles an hour. I don't think it was any faster than 10.
Mr. BALL. Did you at any time come abreast of the President's car in
the motorcade?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Were you under certain instructions as to how far behind the
car you were to keep?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What were those instructions?
Mr. MARTIN. They instructed us that they didn't want anyone riding past
the President's car and that we were to ride to the rear, to the rear
of his car, about the rear bumper.
Mr. BALL. I think that's all, Officer.
This will be written up and you can look it over and sign it if you
wish, or you can waive your signature and we will send it on to the
Commission without it.
It's your option.
What would you like to do?
Mr. MARTIN. It doesn't make any difference--it's the truth as I saw it
that day.
Mr. BALL. You just as soon waive your signature, then?
Mr. MARTIN. That would be fine.
Mr. BALL. All right, we'll waive your signature.
Mr. MARTIN. All right.
Mr. BALL. Thanks very much for coming in.
Mr. MARTIN. Okay.