Mr. BELIN. Did you watch those?
Mr. CRAIG. Some of them we watched. We watched Mr. Decker's car, of
course, and a few of the others.
Mr. BELIN. Now, where was Mr. Decker's car?
Mr. CRAIG. I believe he came by just before the President's. I believe
there were some dignitaries and things before that, and then we watched
the President's and--uh--oh, and then about two or three cars after
the President's car had passed. And then we were just standing there
looking around, you know.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Then what happened?
Mr. CRAIG. Then I heard an explosion.
Mr. BELIN. When you heard the explosion, what did you do?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, the first--nothing. I wrestled with my mind. I knew
it was a shot but--uh--I didn't want to believe it. But, a few seconds
later, I heard another explosion and, this time, I knew it was a shot.
And, as I began to run, I heard a third one. I was running toward
Houston Street.
Mr. BELIN. How many explosions did you hear altogether?
Mr. CRAIG. Three.
Mr. BELIN. About how far were these noises apart?
Mr. CRAIG. The first one was--uh--about three seconds--2 or 3 seconds.
Mr. BELIN. Two or 3 seconds between the first and the second?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, it was quite a pause between there. It could have been
a little longer.
Mr. BELIN. And what about between the second and third?
Mr. CRAIG. Not more than 2 seconds. It was--they were real rapid.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Then what did you do?
Mr. CRAIG. I continued running across Houston Street, across the
parkway, across Elm Street and, by this time, the motorcade had went on
down Elm Street and I ran up to the railroad yard and--uh--started to
look around when the people began to all travel over that way. So, I
began moving people back out of the railroad yard.
Mr. BELIN. Where did the noises or shots sound to you like they came
from?
Mr. CRAIG. It was hard to tell because--uh--they had an echo, you know.
There was actually two explosions with each one. There was the--uh--the
shot and then the echo from it. So, it was hard to tell.
Mr. BELIN. Did people tell you, as you ran over there, where they
thought the shots came from?
Mr. CRAIG. No; as I reached the railroad yard, I talked to a girl
getting her car that--uh--thought they came from the park area on the
north side of Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say why she thought they came from there?
Mr. CRAIG. No; she was standing there and it sounded real loud at that
particular point----
Mr. BELIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. CRAIG. And she thought that's where they came from.
Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say they had seen anything--such as a rifle?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes; later on. A few minutes after that--I had taken this
girl to one of our criminal investigators--and was talking to some
other people. I talked to a young couple and the boy said he saw two
men on the--uh--sixth floor of the Book Depository Building over there;
one of them had a rifle with the telescopic sight on it--but he thought
they were Secret Service agents on guard and didn't report it. This was
about--uh--oh, he said, 15 minutes before the motorcade ever arrived.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember if that boy's name would have been Arnold
Rowland--(spelling) R-o-w-l-a-n-d?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Does that sound like it?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes; it sounds like the name--yes.
Mr. BELIN. His wife might be Barbara Rowland?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes; I believe her name was Barbara.
Mr. BELIN. Before you talked to this couple, did you do anything else
or talk with anyone before you got back with them?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, I looked around, you know, for just--after I turned
this girl over to Mr. Lewis--I began looking around and talking to
people to see if they'd seen anything. And that's when I ran onto this
man and his wife.
Mr. BELIN. And about what time do you think this was in relation
to--from when you heard the shots to the time that you talked to this
young couple?
Mr. CRAIG. I don't know. 10 minutes, maybe.
Mr. BELIN. You believe you talked to this young couple 10 minutes after
the shots were fired?
Mr. CRAIG. It might have been 10 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Then, what did you do? But, first of all, let me ask you this: Did this
girl say that she saw any person with a rifle?
Mr. CRAIG. No; no.
Mr. BELIN. Now, the boy--where did he say that he saw the man with the
rifle?
Mr. CRAIG. On the--uh--west end of the building on the sixth floor.
Mr. BELIN. Would that be--when you say "the west end,"--you mean, the
west end of the south side, or the west side?
Mr. CRAIG. The west end of the south side.
Mr. BELIN. Of the sixth floor?
Mr. CRAIG. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Did he point out the window to you?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. From the west corner, where would this window have been?
Right next to the west corner or two or three windows away, or what?
Mr. CRAIG. It was the--uh--the second window from the corner.
They were walking, you know, back and forth.
Mr. BELIN. He said that the two men were walking back and forth?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Now, when you talk about second window, this building is
located near you, is it not?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. This is the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Each window was sort of a pair of windows. And, on the south
side, there probably are around seven pairs of windows.
Mr. CRAIG. Uh-huh.
Mr. BELIN. Would this have been--when you say "the second window from
the west end"--by that do you mean it was the first pair of windows but
the easternmost one of that pair, or do you mean it was in the second
pair of windows from the west end--or don't you remember?
Mr. CRAIG. No; I don't remember that now.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Did he say anything else about what he had seen with this man with the
rifle?
Mr. CRAIG. Yeah; he said he looked back a few minutes later
and--uh--the other man was gone, and there was just one man--the man
with the rifle.
Mr. BELIN. He said he looked back again and just the man with the rifle
was there?
Mr. CRAIG. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say how long or when the last time was that he saw
the man with the rifle?
Mr. CRAIG. I believe this second time he looked was the--uh--the last
time he looked up there.
Mr. BELIN. And about how long was that before the shots were fired?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, he said he first seen him--saw the two men about 15
minutes before the motorcade arrived.
Mr. BELIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. CRAIG. And he didn't say how long after that he looked back up
there to just see the one man. He just said--uh--a few minutes later he
looked back up.
Mr. BELIN. A few minutes later, he looked back up and he saw one man
with the rifle?
Mr. CRAIG. Just the one man.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say what the one man was doing with the rifle?
Mr. CRAIG. He said he was holding it down to his side and just looking
out the window.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say how far the man was from the window?
Mr. CRAIG. No; huh-uh.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say in what direction the man was looking out the
window?
Mr. CRAIG. He was looking out in a southerly direction. Straight ahead.
You know, straight out.
Mr. BELIN. When he said the man was holding it at his side, would
this be--did he say it was, in military terminology, in any kind of a
position to hold a weapon?
Mr. CRAIG. No; this I don't go into with him. I turned him over to
Officer Lewis for interrogation.
Mr. BELIN. Would this be Deputy Sheriff Lemmy Lewis--(spelling)
L-e-m-m-y L-e-w-i-s?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. He is a criminal investigator of the Dallas Sheriff's Office?
Mr. CRAIG. Right.
Mr. BELIN. And then you left this young couple?
Mr. CRAIG. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Now, about how long would this have been after the shooting
that you left them with Deputy Sheriff Lewis?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, I didn't talk with them long. I talked with them--all
the time that he told me what he saw and the time that I turned him
over to officer Lewis, was probably--uh--3 minutes--3 or 4 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. CRAIG. Because--uh--I took him immediately up there to him when he
told me what he'd seen.
Mr. BELIN. By this time, had anyone said the shots might have come from
that School Book Depository Building--do you know?
Mr. CRAIG. No. I don't--uh--I don't recall that. I don't believe so.
Mr. BELIN. At this time, do you know whether or not they had sealed off
in any way the entrance or the building--the School Book Depository
Building--or not?
Mr. CRAIG. No; no. I didn't notice that.
Mr. BELIN. You didn't notice that?
Mr. CRAIG. No.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, about how many minutes after the
assassination or shooting was it that you turned this couple over to
Sheriff Lemmy Lewis?
Mr. CRAIG. Oh, it was about--well, I guess, 12 minutes--10, 12 minutes.
Something like that.
Mr. BELIN. Ten or 12 minutes after the shooting?
Mr. CRAIG. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Then, what did you do?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, I looked around for a little bit, you know, just
observing the people and things, and Officer Lewis turned them over to
someone else, as I recall, and sent them to the sheriff's office--to
Mr. Decker's office. And then it was either Lemmy Lewis or Buddy
Walthers--(spelling) W-a-l-t-h-e-r-s, one of our other criminal
investigators, said that one of the bullets had ricocheted off the
south curb of Elm Street. So, Officer Lewis and I crossed--walked down
the hill and crossed Elm Street to look for the place where the bullet
might have hit.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say why he believed one of the bullets ricocheted off
the south curb of Elm?
Mr. CRAIG. No; he just said that someone said that one of them had. So,
we checked it.
Mr. BELIN. So, you searched the south curb of Elm?
Mr. CRAIG. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Did you find anything there to indicate the ricocheted
bullet?
Mr. CRAIG. No; we didn't find anything at that time. Now, as we were
searching, we had just got over across the street, when I heard someone
whistle.
Mr. BELIN. Now, about how many minutes was this after the time that you
had turned that young couple over to Lemmy Lewis that you heard this
whistle?
Mr. CRAIG. Fourteen or 15 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Fourteen or 15 minutes?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Was this, you mean, after the shooting?
Mr. CRAIG. After the--from the time I heard the first shot.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
You heard someone whistle?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes. So I turned and--uh--saw a man start to run down the
hill on the north side of Elm Street, running down toward Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN. And, about where was he with relation to the School Book
Depository Building?
Mr. CRAIG. Uh--directly across that little side street that runs in
front of it. He was on the south side of it.
Mr. BELIN. And he was on the south side of what would be an extension
of Elm Street, if Elm Street didn't curve down into the underpass?
Mr. CRAIG. Right; right.
Mr. BELIN. And where was he with relation to the west side of the
School Book Depository Building?
Mr. CRAIG. Right by the--uh--well, actually, directly in line with the
west corner--the southwest corner.
Mr. BELIN. He was directly in line with the southwest corner of the
building?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And he was on the south curve of that street that runs right
in front of the building there?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And he started to run toward Elm Street as it curves under
the underpass?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes; directly down the grassy portion of the park.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
And then what did you see happen?
Mr. CRAIG. I saw a light-colored station wagon, driving real slow,
coming west on Elm Street from Houston. Uh--actually, it was nearly in
line with him. And the driver was leaning to his right looking up the
hill at the man running down.
Mr. BELIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. CRAIG. And the station wagon stopped almost directly across from
me. And--uh--the man continued down the hill and got in the station
wagon. And I attempted to cross the street. I wanted to talk to both
of them. But the--uh--traffic was so heavy I couldn't get across the
street. And--uh--they were gone before I could----
Mr. BELIN. Where did the station wagon head?
Mr. CRAIG. West on Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN. Under the triple underpass?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Could you describe the man that you saw running down toward
the station wagon?
Mr. CRAIG. Oh, he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five
eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown
sandy hair--you know, it was like it'd been blown--you know, he'd been
in the wind or something--it was all wild-looking; had on--uh--blue
trousers----
Mr. BELIN. What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light?
Mr. CRAIG. No; medium, probably; I'd say medium.
And, a--uh--light tan shirt, as I remember it.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else about him?
Mr. CRAIG. No; nothing except that he looked like he was in an awful
hurry.
Mr. BELIN. What about the man who was driving the car?
Mr. CRAIG. Now, he struck me, at first, as being a colored male. He
was very dark complected, had real dark short hair, and was wearing a
thin white-looking jacket--uh, it looked like the short windbreaker
type, you know, because it was real thin and had the collar that came
out over the shoulder (indicating with hands) like that--just a short
jacket.
Mr. BELIN. You say that he first struck you that way. Do you now think
that he was a Negro?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, I don't--I didn't get a real good look at him. But my
first glance at him--I was more interested in the man coming down the
hill--but my first glance at him, he struck me as a Negro.
Mr. BELIN. Is that what your opinion is today?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, I--I couldn't say, because I didn't get a good enough
look at him.
Mr. BELIN. What kind and what color station wagon was it?
Mr. CRAIG. It was light colored--almost--uh--it looked white to me.
Mr. BELIN. What model or make was it?
Mr. CRAIG. I thought it was a Nash.
Mr. BELIN. Why would you think it was a Nash?
Mr. CRAIG. Because it had a built-in luggage rack on the top.
And--uh--at the time, this was the only type car I could fit with that
type luggage rack.
Mr. BELIN. A Nash Rambler--is that what you're referring to?
Mr. CRAIG. Yes; with a rack on the the back portion of the car, you
know.
Mr. BELIN. Did it have a Texas license plate, or not?
Mr. CRAIG. It had the same color. I couldn't see the--uh--name with the
numbers on it. I could just barely make them out. They were at an angle
where I couldn't make the numbers of the--uh--any of the writing on it.
But--uh--I'm sure it was a Texas plate.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else about this incident that you can recall?