The testimony of S. M Holland was taken at 2:20 p.m., on April 8, 1964
in the Office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and
Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel
of the President's Commission. Mr. S M Holland was accompanied by his
attorney, Mr. Balford Morrison.
Mr. STERN. Would you rise please and raise your right hand so as to be
sworn.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony that you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. HOLLAND. I do.
Mr. STERN. Sit down, please.
You have recorded Mr. Morrison's presence?
The Reporter. Yes.
Mr. STERN. Mr Holland, you have received a letter from the Commission
asking you to come and testify today?
Mr. HOLLAND. Yes.
Mr. STERN. As you know, the Commission is inquiring into all of the
facts concerning the assassination of President Kennedy and we want
your evidence concerning what you saw at the time of the assassination
from the place you were standing. May we have, for the record, your
name and residence address?
Mr. HOLLAND. S. M. Holland, 1119 Lucille Street, Irving, Tex.
Mr. STERN. What is your occupation?
Mr. HOLLAND. Signal supervisor for Union Terminal Railroad.
Mr. STERN. How long have you been employed by that organization?
Mr. HOLLAND. Union Terminal since 1938.
Mr. STERN. Now on Friday November 22, will you describe what you did
concerning the President's visit and where you were?
Mr. HOLLAND. Well, about 11:00 o'clock, a couple of policemen and a
plain clothesman came up on top of the triple underpass, and we had
some men working up there, and I knew that they was going to have a
parade, and I left my office, and walked up to the underpass to talk to
the policemen. And they asked me during the parade if I would come back
up there and identify people that was supposed to be on that overpass.
That is the railroad people.
Mr. STERN. Where is your office Mr Holland?
Mr. HOLLAND. At the Union Terminal Station.
Mr. STERN. Is that within walking distance of the triple overpass?
Mr. HOLLAND. Yes, it is. About--less than a quarter of a mile, a very
short distance.
Mr. STERN. And these policemen that you spoke to, there were 3
altogether?
Mr. HOLLAND. Two--there were 2 city policemen and 1 man in
plainclothes. I didn't talk to him. I talked to the city policemen.
Mr. STERN. You don't know what his affiliation was?
Mr. HOLLAND. I know he was a plainclothes detective or FBI agent or
some thing like that, but I don't know, and I told him I would be back
and after lunch I would go up there.
Mr. STERN. Approximately what time did you arrive up there?
Mr. HOLLAND. Oh, I arrived up there, I guess, about a quarter until 12,
and I would identify each person that came up there that he worked at
the Union Terminal, and department so-and-so.
Mr. STERN. Whom did you see there at 11:45 when you returned, from then
until 12:30?
Mr. HOLLAND. Well, I would have to try to remember who all was up there
then. There was Mr. Reilly and Mr. R. C. Dodd.
Mr. STERN. Mr. Reilly?
Mr. HOLLAND. Reilly.