Mr. SPECTER. Start any place that you find most convenient and just
tell me in your own way what happened.
Mrs. HILL. Well, as they came toward us, we had been taking pictures
with this Polaroid camera and since it was a Polaroid we knew we had
only one chance to get a picture, and at the time she had taken a
picture just a few minutes before and I had grabbed it out of the
camera and wrapped it and put it in my pocket. Just about that time he
drew even with us.
Mr. SPECTER. And when you say "he" you mean?
Mrs. HILL. The President's car. We were standing on the curb and I
jumped to the edge of the street and yelled, "Hey, we want to take
your picture," to him and he was looking down in the seat--he and
Mrs. Kennedy and their heads were turned toward the middle of the car
looking down at something in the seat, which later turned out to be the
roses, and I was so afraid he was going to look the other way because
there were a lot of people across the street and we were, as far as I
know, we were the only people down there in that area, and just as I
yelled, "Hey," to him, he started to bring his head up to look at me
and just as he did the shot rang out. Mary took the picture and fell on
the ground and of course there were more shots.
Mr. SPECTER. How many shots were there altogether?
Mrs. HILL. I have always said there were some four to six shots. There
were three shots--one right after the other, and a distinct pause, or
just a moment's pause, and then I heard more.
Mr. SPECTER. How long a time elapsed from the first to the third of
what you described as the first three shots?
Mrs. HILL. They were rapidly--they were rather rapidly fired.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you give me an estimate on the timespan on those
three shots?
Mrs. HILL. No; I don't think I can.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, how many shots followed what you described as the
first three shots?
Mrs. HILL. I think there were at least four or five shots and perhaps
six, but I know there were more than three.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, much time elapsed from the very first shot until the
very last shot, will you estimate?
Mrs. HILL. I don't think I could, properly, but my girl friend fell on
the ground after about--during the shooting--right, I would say, just
immediately after she had taken the picture--probably about the third
shot. She fell on the ground and grabbed my slacks and said, "Get down,
they're shooting." And, I knew they were but I was too stunned to move,
so I didn't get down. I just stood there and gawked around.
Mr. SPECTER. Can't you give me any better idea on the sequence of the
shots other than to say that there were three shots right in a row and
then a moment's pause and an additional shot or shots.
Mrs. HILL. In what way?
Mr. SPECTER. Is there any way you could be more specific by way of time
lapses among any of the shots, from the first to the second shot, the
second to the third, or in that manner?
Mrs. HILL. The three were fired as though one person were firing; I
mean, to me. They were fired just like you could reload and fire again
or whatever you do with a gun.
Mr. SPECTER. With what sort of an action?
Mrs. HILL. I think that the firing that was done could have been done
with the type gun that they say the assassinator used.
Mr. SPECTER. And what type gun was that, according to your
understanding?
Mrs. HILL. A bolt action.
Mr. SPECTER. And how about the shots that followed the three shots,
then, what would the sequence of timing have been on those?
Mrs. HILL. I thought they were different--I thought the sequence was
different.
Mr. SPECTER. How will you describe the sequence?
Mrs. HILL. Quicker--more automatic.
Mr. SPECTER. Were there as few as four, as you recollected?
Mrs. HILL. I won't say positively, I think I can still seemingly hear
it, and I would still say there were more, you know, I'm saying 4 to 6.
I know there were at least 4, and I just almost swear that I heard 5 or
6.
Mr. SPECTER. Could there have been more than 6 that you heard?
Mrs. HILL. I couldn't say that I heard more than that.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you say for certain that you did not hear more than
that?
Mrs. HILL. Yes; I didn't hear any more than that.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the position of the President, as best you
recollect it, at the time the first shot was heard by you?
Mrs. HILL. He was slightly turned, he was sitting back in the seat,
like turned toward Mrs. Kennedy and his head was down, and his hands
were like this (indicating).
Mr. SPECTER. His hands were in his lap?
Mrs. HILL. No--not really.
Mr. SPECTER. How would you describe the position of his hands?
Mrs. HILL. He was sitting here [indicating] and Mrs. Kennedy--he was
like this [indicating].
Mr. SPECTER. You are indicating the right hand on the left knee?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. With the body turned slightly toward the person on his
left?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Who would have been Mrs. Kennedy?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And were you watching him at this time?
Mrs. HILL. Yes, I was looking right at his face.
Mr. SPECTER. And what reaction, if any, did he have at the time of the
first shot?
Mrs. HILL. As I said, I had yelled at him and he had started to raise
his head up and I saw his head start to come up and all at once a
bullet rang out and he slumped forward like this [indicating].
Mr. SPECTER. Lurched or slumped, as you say, to the left?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did his head drop down?
Mrs. HILL. Yes; he was just, you know, slumping down like this.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have a chance to see anything of Governor Connally
at that exact second?
Mrs. HILL. There was a scrambling around in the front seat. I didn't
know who was riding with him, I hadn't paid any attention to who was
riding with him in the car, but I never did see Mrs. Connally. I guess
my story is probably colored by what I have heard.
Mr. SPECTER. Tell me what you have heard that you think maybe that
colored your story?
Mrs. HILL. About what the Connallys say about the shots, which shots
hit where and everything.
Mr. SPECTER. What is that that you have heard?
Mrs. HILL. Well, I have heard that 1 shot hit Kennedy and also hit
Connally, that the same shot that hit Kennedy hit Connally.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you hear that, Mrs. Hill?
Mrs. HILL. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. What else have you heard?
Mrs. HILL. And also that Mrs. Connally jumped up and covered Mr.
Connally with her body and pushed him to the floor, but I never did see
Mrs. Connally.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever see Governor Connally?
Mrs. HILL. Yes; I did see him; I didn't know who he was, but I did see
him and I knew that someone had been hit.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was he pushed in the car?
Mrs. HILL. Well, I just vaguely know that he was toward the front.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, was he in the front seat of the ear or was he
between President Kennedy and the front seat of the car, or where was
he?
Mrs. HILL. Between President Kennedy?
Mr. SPECTER. You know that there were jump seats in the car so that
there would have been people sitting three positions forward, one in
the back seat--President Kennedy and Mrs. Kennedy, on the right in the
jump seat--Governor Connally and Mrs. Connally and in the front seat,
two Secret Service agents--people sitting three positions forward?
Mrs. HILL. I saw the Secret Service agents.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you been, prior to the time I told you just now,
familiar with that arrangement of the personnel in the car?
Mrs. HILL. Yes; I knew that, and as I said, I didn't know who the
people were in the car because I am new here--I don't know the
Connallys, I just knew that people were in the car.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you notice the person sitting in the jump seat on
the right-hand side, that would be the person immediately in front of
President Kennedy?
Mrs. HILL. Well, I would say it was Mr. Connally.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe him at any specific time?
Mrs. HILL. I saw a man fall to the floor.
Mr. SPECTER. And when, in point of time, did you see him fall?
Mrs. HILL. After the President was shot, but I wouldn't--it wasn't with
the first shot. To me he wasn't hit when the first shot hit.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is the basis for your saying that, Mrs. Hill?
Mrs.. HILL. Well, I just think that he was hit after Kennedy was hit
because, well, just the way that it looked, I would say that he was hit
later.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, do you associate the time that Governor Connally
appeared to have been hit with any specific shot that you heard?
Mrs. HILL. The second.
Mr. SPECTER. And what specifically did you observe at the time of the
second shot?
Mrs. HILL. Well, that's what I thought had happened--that they had hit
someone in the front part of the car.
Mr. SPECTER. And what did you observe at the time of the third shot?
Mrs. HILL. President Kennedy was hit again and he had further buffeted
his body and I didn't realize at the time what it was--I remarked to
my friends in the police station that day--did she notice his hair
standing up, because it did. It just rippled up like this.
Mr. SPECTER. And at what time was that?
Mrs. HILL. On the third shot.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you notice Governor Connally at the time of the third
shot?
Mrs. HILL. I never saw him again.
Mr. SPECTER. What occurred at the time of the fourth shot which you
believe you heard?
Mrs. HILL. Well, at that time, of course, there was a pause and I took
the other shots--about that time Mary grabbed me and was yelling and
I had looked away from what was going on here and I thought, because
I guess from the TV and movies, that it was Secret Service agents
shooting back. To me, if somebody shoots at somebody they always shoot
back and so I just thought that that's what it was and I thought, well,
they are getting him and shooting back, you know; I didn't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was the President's car at the time you thought you
heard the fourth shot?
Mrs. HILL. The motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots
rang out, and I would say it was just approximately, if not--it
couldn't have been in the same position, I'm sure it wasn't, but just
a very, very short distance from where it had been. It was just almost
stunned.
Mr. SPECTER. And how about the time of the fifth shot, where do you
think the President's car was?
Mrs. HILL. That was during those shots, I think it wasn't any further
than a few feet--further down.
Mr. SPECTER. Which shots, now--you mean the fourth, and perhaps the
fifth and perhaps the sixth shot?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to say what anyone was doing or what events
were occurring at the time of the fourth through perhaps the sixth
shots which you have testified about?
Mrs. HILL. Well, as I said, at that time she was yelling at me and on
the ground.
Mr. SPECTER. Who was yelling at you?
Mrs. HILL. Mary, my friend, was yelling at me and she was down on the
ground and I looked up and I could see everyone was just stunned, there
was immobility all around and I just stood there looking around and
I'm sure there wasn't a pause--it seemed like an eternity but I'm sure
there was just a slight pause before things started moving again.
Mr. SPECTER. Were the shots over by that time when things started
moving again?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Then what happened on the scene?
Mrs. HILL. Well, they say Mrs. Kennedy climbed up on the back of the
car.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe that?
Mrs. HILL. No; I have seen pictures that show that she must have, but I
ran across the street.