Mr. CRAWFORD. On the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. I
turned to Miss Mitchell and made the statement that if those were shots
they came from that window. That was based mainly on the fact of the
quick movement observed in the window right at the conclusion of the
report.
Mr. BALL. Could you give me any better description than just a
movement? Could you use any other words to describe what you saw by way
of color or size of what you saw moving?
Mr. CRAWFORD. If I were asked to describe it, I would say that it was a
profile, somewhat from the waist up, but it was a very quick movement
and rather indistinct and it was very light colored. It was either
light colored or it was reflection from the sun. When the gun was
found, or when a gun was found, I asked the question if it was white,
simply because if it was a gun I saw, then it was either white or it
was reflecting the sun so it would appear white or light colored.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any boxes in that window?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, directly behind the window, oh possibly three feet
or less, there were boxes stacked up behind the window and I believe
it was the only place in the building that I observed where boxes were
stacked just like that.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any boxes in the window?
Mr. CRAWFORD. No, I didn't see any. There wasn't any boxes in the
window.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay there at that point very long, the southeast
corner?
Mr. CRAWFORD. No; as I said. I couldn't observe the President's car and
I had no actual knowledge that he had been shot, so realizing that we
should get the information almost immediately from the radio which had
been covering the motorcade--we had been listening to it prior to going
on the street--I thought our best information would come from that,
so we went, Miss Mitchell and I, went back into the office. I have no
way of knowing the time. I would say it was a minute or--I would say a
minute.
Mr. BALL. After you heard the shots, did you return to the office?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The movement that you saw that you describe as something
light and perhaps a profile from the waist up, you mean it looked like
a profile of a person?
Mr. CRAWFORD. That was--I had a hard time describing that. When I saw
it, I automatically in my mind came to the conclusion that it was a
person having moved out of the window. Now, to say that it was a brown
haired, light skinned individual, I could not do that.
Mr. BALL. Could you tell whether it was a man or woman?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I could not.
Mr. BALL. You made a report to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on
the 10th of January?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Before I ask you about your report, did you have any
impression as to the source of the sound, from what direction the sound
came, the sound of the explosions?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes; I do. As I mentioned before, the sound, I thought
it was a backfire in the cavalcade from down the hill, down the hill
toward the underpass.
Mr. BALL. You mean west on Elm?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, and that was a little confusing and in analyzing it
later, evidently the report that I heard, and probably a lot of other
people, the officers or the FBI, it evidently was a sound that was
reflected by the underpass and therefore came back. It did not sound to
me, ever, as I remember, the high-powered rifle sounding. It was not
the sharp crack.
Mr. BALL. What caused you to look up at the Texas School Book
Depository Building?
Mr. CRAWFORD. The sound had to be coming from somewhere; the noise was
being made at some place, so I didn't see anyone shooting firecrackers
or anything else and I thought "this idiot surely shouldn't do such
a thing," but if they were, where were they, and if they were shots,
where were they coming from, and that caused me to search the whole
area on Houston Street and in front of the Texas Depository on Elm
Street and then up and that's how I happened to be looking up at the
time, rather than observing things in the street, probably.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see any smoke?
Mr. CRAWFORD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. BALL. In your remark to Mary Ann Mitchell, did you say "if those
were shots, they came from that window"?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. That is what you reported to the FBI agent, also?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, I suppose; at that time, I was still not absolutely
sure that they were shots and that's why I said if they were shots. I
was basing that, I am sure I was basing that mainly on the fact of this
quick movement that I observed. In other words, if I were firing the
shots, I would have jumped back immediately at the conclusion of them.
Mr. BALL. Later on, did you go back in the street and talk to someone?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to a deputy sheriff?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Allen Swett.
Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I told him to have the men search the boxes directly
behind this window that was open on the sixth floor--the window in the
far east corner.
Mr. BALL. Did you tell him anything of what you had seen?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I don't think so. I think I was so amazed that I could
walk across the street and walk up to this building that was supposedly
under surveillance and the man had not been--I say "the man"--there had
not been anyone apprehended.
Mr. BALL. How long was it after you heard the shots that you walked up
to Allen Swett and talked to him?
Mr. CRAWFORD. My guess is it could have been anywhere from 10-20
minutes. My guess would be around 15-20 minutes.
Mr. BALL. In the statement you made to the FBI agent, he reports you
said you walked to the Texas School Book Depository where you contacted
Deputy Sheriff Allen Swett and advised him of the movement you had seen
in the sixth floor window?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I must have said something about the movement. I did tell
him to search those windows, I think.
Mr. BALL. Could you in your own words give us your memory of what you
told Allen Swett?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I would probably have said, as I remember it, that to
have the men search--have someone search the boxes directly behind that
window. I had seen some movement directly after the shots. That was,
I think, all I said. I did not--there was no conversation and at the
conclusion of my statement, he directed several men up there.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever go in the building yourself?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I did not and I still have not been in there.
Mr. BALL. I think that's all, Mr. Crawford. Thanks very much.
Mr. CRAWFORD. Thank you, Mr. Ball.
Mr. BALL. Incidentally, will you waive signature on this?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes; I will.