The testimony of Darrell C. Tomlinson was taken on March 20, 1964,
at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Tomlinson, this is Miss Oliver, and she is the court
reporter. Will you stand up and hold up your right hand and take the
oath, please?
Do you solemnly swear that in the taking of your deposition in these
proceedings, you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name, for the record?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Darrell Carlisle Tomlinson.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Tomlinson, the purpose of this deposition proceeding
is to take your deposition in connection with an inquiry made by
the President's Commission in connection with the Assassination
of President Kennedy to determine from you all the facts, if any,
which you know concerning the events surrounding the assassination
of President Kennedy and any treatment which was given at Parkland
Memorial Hospital to either President Kennedy or Governor Connally, or
anything that happened to any physical objects connected with either
one of those men.
First of all, did you receive a letter advising you that the Commission
was interested in having one of its staff lawyers take your deposition
concerning this matter?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And did that letter include in it a copy of the Executive
order creating the Commission?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And a copy of the congressional resolution concerning the
creation of the President's Commission?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And a copy of the resolution governing questioning of
witnesses by members of the Commission's staff?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And are you willing today for me to ask you some questions
about what you observed or know about this matter?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And it is satisfactory with you to proceed today rather
than to have 3 days from the time you got the letter, which was
yesterday?
Mr. TOMLINSON. It's immaterial.
Mr. SPECTER. It's immaterial to you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. It's immaterial--it's at your convenience.
Mr. SPECTER. That's fine. We appreciate that, Mr. Tomlinson.
The reason is, that you have the right to a 3-day notice, but if it
doesn't matter to you, then we would like to go ahead and take your
information today.
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. We call that a waiver under the law, if it is all right
with you for us to talk with you today, then I want to go ahead and do
that; is that all right?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, where are you employed, Mr. Tomlinson?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Parkland Hospital.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is your capacity?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I am classed as the senior engineer.
Mr. SPECTER. And what duties are involved in general?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I'm in charge of the powerplant here at the hospital,
which takes care of the heating and air-conditioning services for the
building.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe the general physical layout relating to
the emergency area and how you get from the emergency area, say, to the
second floor emergency operating rooms of Parkland Memorial Hospital?
Mr. TOMLINSON. You mean just the general lay?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir; please.
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, we have one elevator that goes from the basement
to the third floor, that's what we call the emergency elevator. It's in
the south section of the hospital and that would be your most direct
route to go from the ground floor, which emergency is on, to the
operating rooms on two.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you have anything to do with that elevator on
November 22, sometime around the noon hour?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And what did you have to do with that elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, we received a call in the engineer's office,
the chief engineer's office, and he requested someone to operate the
elevator.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any problem with the elevator with respect to a
mechanical difficulty of any sort?
Mr. TOMLINSON. No, sir; it was an ordinary type elevator, and if it
isn't keyed off it will stop every time somebody pushes a button, and
they preferred it to go only to the second floor and to the ground
floor unless otherwise instructed by the administrator.
Mr. SPECTER. So, what were you to do with this elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Key it off the ground, between ground and second floor.
Mr. SPECTER. So that you would operate it in that way?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; make a manual operation out of it.
Mr. SPECTER. When you came upon that elevator, what time was it, to the
best of your recollection?
Mr. TOMLINSON. It was around 1 o'clock.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there anything on the elevator at that time?
Mr. TOMLINSON. There was one stretcher.
Mr. SPECTER. And describe the appearance of that stretcher, if you
will, please.
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe that stretcher had sheets on it and had a
white covering on the pad.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you say about the covering on the pad, excuse me?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe it was a white sheet that was on the pad.
Mr. SPECTER. And was there anything else on that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I don't believe there was on that one, I'm not sure, but
I don't believe there was.
Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, did you do with that stretcher?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I took it off of the elevator and put it over against
the south wall.
Mr. SPECTER. On what floor?
Mr. TOMLINSON. The ground floor.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any other stretcher in that area at that time?
Mr. TOMLINSON. There was a stretcher about 2 feet from the wall already
there.
(Indicating on drawing to which the witness referred.)
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you have just pointed to a drawing which you have
made of this situation, have you not, while we were talking a few
minutes before the court reporter started to take down your testimony?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, would you mark in ink with my pen the stretcher which
you pushed off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I think that it was this one right here (indicating).
Mr. SPECTER. Will you draw the outline of it in ink and mark an "A"
right in the center of that?
(Witness complied with request of Counsel Specter.)
Mr. SPECTER. Now, would you mark in ink the position of the stretcher
which was already on the first floor?
Mr. TOMLINSON. This was the ground floor.
Mr. SPECTER. Pardon me, on the ground floor? Is there a different
designation for the first floor?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Where is the first floor?
Mr. TOMLINSON. One above the ground. We have basement, ground, first,
second, and third on that elevator.
Mr. SPECTER. What floor was Governor Connally taken to, if you know?
Mr. TOMLINSON. He was on two, he was in the operating rooms up on two.
That's our surgical suites up there.
Mr. SPECTER. And what level is the emergency entrance of the hospital
on?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, it's the ground floor--it's there at the back of
the hospital, you see, it's built on the incline there.
Mr. SPECTER. And the elevator which you found in this area was on the
ground floor?
Mr. TOMLINSON. The elevator?
Mr. SPECTER. The stretcher.
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you mark with a "B" the stretcher which was present
at the time you pushed stretcher "A" off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. (Witness complied with the request of Counsel Specter.)
I believe that's it.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, what, if anything, did you later observe as to
stretcher "B"?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, sir; I don't recall how long it had been exactly,
but an intern or doctor, I didn't know which, came to use the men's
room there in the elevator lobby.
Mr. SPECTER. Where is the men's room located on this diagram?
Mr. TOMLINSON. It would be right there (indicating) beside the "B"
stretcher.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you draw in ink there the outline of that room in a
general way?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, I really don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. And would you mark that with the letter "C"?
(Witness complied with request of Counsel Specter.)
Mr. SPECTER. That's fine. What happened when that gentleman came to use
the men's room?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, he pushed the stretcher out from the wall to get
in, and then when he came out he just walked off and didn't push the
stretcher back up against the wall, so I pushed it out of the way where
we would have clear area in front of the elevator.
Mr. SPECTER. And where did you push it to?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I pushed it back up against the wall.
Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, happened then?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I bumped the wall and a spent cartridge or bullet rolled
out that apparently had been lodged under the edge of the mat.
Mr. SPECTER. And that was from which stretcher?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe that it was "B".
Mr. SPECTER. And what was on "B", if you recall; if anything?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, at one end they had one or two sheets rolled up; I
didn't examine them. They were bloody. They were rolled up on the east
end of it and there were a few surgical instruments on the opposite end
and a sterile pack or so.
Mr. SPECTER. A sterile what?
Mr. TOMLINSON. A sterile pack.
Mr. SPECTER. What do you mean by that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Like gauze or something like that.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there an alcohol sponge?
Mr. TOMLINSON. There could have been.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there a roll of 1-inch tape?
Mr. TOMLINSON. No; I don't think so.
Mr. SPECTER. Were there any empty packets from hypodermic needles?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, now, it had some paper there but I don't know what
they came from.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, Mr. Tomlinson, are you sure that it was stretcher "A"
that you took out of the elevator and not stretcher "B"?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, really, I can't be positive, just to be perfectly
honest about it, I can't be positive, because I really didn't pay that
much attention to it. The stretcher was on the elevator and I pushed
it off of there and I believe we made one or two calls up before I
straightened out the stretcher up against the wall.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say "one or two calls," what do you mean by that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Went to pick up the technician from the second floor to
bring him down to the ground floor to get blood.
Mr. SPECTER. And when you say before you straightened the stretcher up,
what do you mean by that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, we just rolled them out of the way where we had
some room on the elevator--that's a small elevator.
Mr. SPECTER. So, when you rolled them out of the elevator, when you
rolled the stretcher out of the elevator, did you place it against the
wall at that time?
Mr. TOMLINSON. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Were both of these stretchers constructed in the same way?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Similar--yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe the appearance of the stretcher with
reference to what it was made of and how many shelves it had, and that
sort of thing?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, it's made of tubed steel with a flat iron frame on
the top where you lay the patient and it has one shelf down between the
four wheels.
Mr. SPECTER. Does it have any bumpers on it?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, and it has rubber bumpers.
Mr. SPECTER. Does it have any rail to keep the patient on?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; they have the rails on the side made of tubed
steel. The majority of them have those.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, just before we started this deposition, before I
placed you under oath and before the court reporter started to take
down my questions and your answers, you and I had a brief talk, did we
not?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And we discussed in a general way the information which
you have testified about, did we not?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And at the time we started our discussion, it was your
recollection at that point that the bullet came off of stretcher A, was
it not?
Mr. TOMLINSON. B.
Mr. SPECTER. Pardon me, stretcher B, but it was stretcher A that you
took off of the elevator.
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe that's right.
Mr. SPECTER. But there is no question but that at the time we started
our discussion a few minutes before the court reporter started to take
it down, that your best recollection was that it was stretcher A which
came off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, I believe that was it--yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you been interviewed about this matter by any other
Federal representative?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Who interviewed you about it?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I don't remember the name of either one of them, but one
was the FBI man and one was the Secret Service man.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times did the FBI interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Once.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times did the Secret Service interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Once.
Mr. SPECTER. When did the FBI interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe they were the first to do it.
Mr. SPECTER. Approximately when was that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I think that was the latter part of November.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did the Secret Service interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Approximately a week later, the first part of December.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, do you recollect what the FBI man asked you about?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Just about where I found the bullet.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he ask you about these stretchers?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, he asked me about the stretchers, yes, just about
the same thing we've gone over here.
Mr. SPECTER. What did the Secret Service man ask you about?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Approximately the same thing, only, we've gone into more
detail here.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you tell the Secret Service man about which
stretcher you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I told him that I was not sure, and I am not--I'm not
sure of it, but as I said, I would be going against the oath which I
took a while ago, because I am definitely not sure.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you remember if you told the Secret Service man which
stretcher you thought you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, we talked about taking a stretcher off of the
elevator, but then when it comes down on an oath, I wouldn't say for
sure, I really don't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. And do you recollect whether or not you told the Secret
Service man which stretcher you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. What do you mean?
Mr. SPECTER. You say you can't really take an oath today to be sure
whether it was stretcher A or stretcher B that you took off the
elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, today or any other day, I'm just not sure of it,
whether it was A or B that I took off.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, has your recollection always been the same about the
situation, that is, today, and when you talked to the Secret Service
man and when you talked to the FBI man?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; I told him that I wasn't sure.
Mr. SPECTER. So, what you told the Secret Service man was just about
the same thing as you have told me today?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. When I first started to ask you about this, Mr. Tomlinson,
you initially identified stretcher A as the one which came off of the
elevator car?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; I think it's just like that.