The testimony of Dr. Robert Shaw was taken at 6 p.m., on March 23,
1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen
Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that Dr. Robert Shaw is present,
having responded to a request to have his deposition taken in
connection with the President's Commission on the Assassination of
President Kennedy, which is investigating all facts relating to the
medical care of President Kennedy and Governor Connally, and Dr. Shaw
has been requested to appear and testify concerning the treatment on
Governor Connally.
Dr. Shaw, will you rise and raise your right hand, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give before the
President's Commission in the course of this deposition proceeding will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Dr. SHAW. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name for the record, please?
Dr. SHAW. Robert Roeder Shaw.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is your profession, sir?
Dr. SHAW. Physician and surgeon.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you outline briefly your educational background,
please?
Dr. SHAW. I received my B.A. degree from the University of Michigan
in 1927 and M.D. degree in 1933. My surgical training was obtained at
Roosevelt Hospital in New York City, July 1934 to July 1936, and my
training in thoracic surgery at the University Hospital, Ann Arbor,
Mich., July 1936 to July 1938. Do you want me to say what happened
subsequent to then?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes; will you outline your medical career in brief form
subsequent to that date, please?
Dr. SHAW. I entered private practice, limited to thoracic surgery,
August 1, 1938. I have continuously practiced this specialty in Dallas,
with the exception of the period from June 1942 to December 1945,
when I was a member of the Medical Corps of the Army of the United
States, serving almost all of this period in the European theatre of
operations. I was again absent from Dallas from December 1961 until
June 1963, when I headed the medico team and performed surgery at the
Avicenna Hospital at Kabul, Afghanistan.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you Board certified, Dr. Shaw?
Dr. SHAW. Yes. I am certified by the Board of Thoracic Surgery, date
of certification--1948. At the present time I am professor of thoracic
surgery and chairman of the division of thoracic surgery at the
University of Texas, Southwestern Medical School.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to perform any medical care for
President Kennedy on November 22, 1963?
Dr. SHAW. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to care for Governor Connally?
Dr. SHAW. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you relate the circumstances of your being called in
to care for the Governor, please?
Dr. SHAW. I was returning to Parkland Hospital and the medical school
from a conference I had attended at Woodlawn Hospital, which is
approximately a mile away, when I saw an open limousine going past
the intersection of Industrial Boulevard and Harry Hines Boulevard
under police escort. As soon as traffic had cleared, I proceeded on
to the medical school. On the car radio I heard that the President
had been shot at while riding in the motorcade. Upon entering the
medical school, a medical student came in and joined three other
medical students. He stated that President Kennedy had been brought in
dead on arrival to the emergency room of Parkland Hospital and that
Governor Connally had been shot through the chest. Upon hearing this, I
proceeded immediately to the emergency room of the hospital and arrived
at the emergency room approximately 5 minutes after the President and
Governor Connally had arrived.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you find Governor Connally at that time, Dr.
Shaw?
Dr. SHAW. I found Governor Connally lying on a stretcher in emergency
room No. 2. In attendance were several men, Dr. James Duke, Dr. David
Mebane, Dr. Giesecke, an anesthesiologist. As emergency measures, the
open wound on the Governor's right chest had been covered with a heavy
dressing and manual pressure was being applied. A drainage tube had
been inserted into the second interspace in the anterior portion of
the right chest and connected to a water-sealed bottle to bring about
partial reexpansion of the collapsed right lung. An intravenous needle
had been inserted into a vein in the left arm and intravenous fluid was
running.
I was informed by Dr. Duke that blood had already been drawn and sent
to the laboratory to be crossmatched with 4 pints of blood, to be
available at surgery. He also stated that the operating room had been
alerted and that they were merely waiting for my arrival to take the
Governor to surgery, since it was obvious that the wound would have to
be debrided and closed.
Mr. SPECTER. At what time did the operation actually start, Dr. Shaw?
Dr. SHAW. That, I would have to refresh my memory on that--now, this,
of course--the point he began the anesthesia--that would be about
right--but I have to refresh my memory.
Mr. SPECTER. Permit me to make available on the record for you the
operative record which has been heretofore marked as Commission Exhibit
No. 392, with the exhibit consisting of the records of Parkland
Hospital on President Kennedy as well as Governor Connally and I call
your attention to a 2-page report which bears your name as the surgeon,
under date of November 22, 1963, of thoracic surgery for Governor
Connally, and, first, I ask you if in fact this report was prepared by
you?
Dr. SHAW. It was.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, with that report, is your recollection refreshed as
to the starting time of the operation on Governor Connally's chest?
Dr. SHAW. Yes; the anesthesia was begun at 1300 hours.
Mr. SPECTER. Which would be 1 p.m.?
Dr. SHAW. 1 p.m., and the actual incision was made at 1335 or 1:35 p.m.
Mr. SPECTER. And what time did that operation conclude?
Dr. SHAW. My operation was completed at 1520 hours, or 3:20.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe Governor Connally's condition, Dr. Shaw,
directing your attention first to the wound on his back?
Dr. SHAW. When Governor Connally was examined, it was found that
there was a small wound of entrance, roughly elliptical in shape, and
approximately a cm. and a half in its longest diameter, in the right
posterior shoulder, which is medial to the fold of the axilla.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the axilla, in lay language, Dr. Shaw?
Dr. SHAW. The arm pit.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Shaw, will you describe next the wound of exit?
Dr. SHAW. Yes; the wound of exit was below and slightly medial to the
nipple on the anterior right chest. It was a round, ragged wound,
approximately 5 cm. in diameter. This wound had obviously torn the
pleura, since it was a sucking wound, allowing air to pass to and fro
between the pleura cavity and the outside of the body.
Mr. SPECTER. Define the pleura, please, Doctor, in lay language.
Dr. SHAW. The pleura is the lining of the chest cavity with one layer
of pleura, the parietal pleura lining the inside of the chest wall,
diaphragm and the mediastinum, which is the compartment of the body
containing the heart, its pericardial sac, and great vessels.
Mr. SPECTER. What were the characteristics of these two bullet wounds
which led you to believe that one was a wound of entry and one was a
wound of exit, Dr. Shaw?
Dr. SHAW. The wound of entrance is almost invariably the smaller
wound, since it perforates the skin and makes a wound approximately or
slightly larger than the missile. The wound of exit, especially if it
has shattered any bony material in the body, will be the larger of the
wounds.
Mr. SPECTER. What experience, Doctor, have you had, if any, in
evaluating gunshot wounds?
Dr. SHAW. I have had considerable experience with gunshot wounds and
wounds due to missiles because of my war experience. This experience
was not only during the almost 2 years in England, but during the time
that I was head of the Thoracic Center in Paris, France, for a period
of approximately a year.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you be able to give an approximation of the total
number of bullet wounds you have had occasion to observe and treat?
Dr. SHAW. Considering the war experience and the addition of wounds
seen in civilian practice, it probably would number well over a
thousand, since we had over 900 admissions to the hospital in Paris.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the line of trajectory, Dr. Shaw, between the
point in the back of the Governor and the point in the front of the
Governor, where the bullet wounds were observed?
Dr. SHAW. Considering the wound of entrance and the wound of exit, the
trajectory of the bullet was obliquely downward, considering the fact
that the Governor was in a sitting position at the time of wounding.