The testimony of Dr. Marion Thomas Jenkins was taken at 5:30 p.m., on
March 25, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr.
Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that Dr. M. T. Jenkins has appeared
in response to a letter request in connection with the inquiry of the
President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, to
testify concerning his observations and medical treatment performed
by him on President Kennedy, and with this preliminary statement of
purpose, would you stand up, please, Dr. Jenkins, and raise your right
hand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give before the President's
Commission in this deposition proceeding, will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Dr. JENKINS. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?
Dr. JENKINS. Marion Thomas Jenkins.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession, please?
Dr. JENKINS. I'm a physician.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you licensed by the State of Texas to practice
medicine?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is your specialty, Dr. Jenkins?
Dr. JENKINS. Anesthesiology.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you outline your educational background for me,
please?
Dr. JENKINS. I am a graduate of the University of Texas in 1937. I have
a B.A. degree and an M.D. degree from the University of Texas Medical
Branch at Galveston in 1940, rotating internship at the University of
Kansas Hospital, Kansas City, Kans., 1940-41; Assistant Residency in
Internal Medicine, John Sealy Hospital in Galveston, Tex., 1941-42;
active duty in the U.S. Navy as a Medical Officer, 1942 to 1946;
Resident in Surgery--Parkland Hospital, Dallas, 1946-47; Resident in
anesthesiology in the Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, 1947-48;
and Director of the Department of Anesthesiology, Parkland Hospital and
Parkland Memorial Hospital, 1948 to the present; Professor and Chairman
of the Department of Anesthesiology, University of Texas, Southwestern
Medical School--since 1951. Diplomate--other certification, do you want
this?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, what Boards are you certified?
Dr. JENKINS. I am a Diplomate of the American Board of Anesthesiology
and also fellow of the American College of Anesthesiologists.
Mr. SPECTER. And what year were you certified by the American Board?
Dr. JENKINS. 1952.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to assist in the treatment of
President Kennedy on November 22, 1963?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And will you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding
your being called into that case?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, I was in the dining room with other members of the
hospital staff when we heard the Chief of Surgery, Dr. Tom Shires,
being paged "Stat." This is a rather unusual call, for the Chief of any
service to be called "Stat" as this is the emergency call.
Mr. SPECTER. What does that mean, "Stat"?
Dr. JENKINS. "Stat" means emergency, that's just a code word that has
been used for years in medical terms. He was paged twice this way, and
one of the surgical residents, Dr. Ronald Jones, answered the phone,
thinking something bad must be up and that he would call the Chief of
Surgery. I was sitting near the telephone and Dr. Jones immediately
came back by with a very anguished look and the color was drained from
his face--I'm sure I had that impression, and he said, "The President
has been shot and is on his way to the hospital." At the same time we
heard the sirens of the ambulance as they turned into the driveway
from Harry Hines into the hospital drive, and it was obvious that this
was the car coming in because the ambulance sirens usually stop in the
street, but these came on clear to the building.
Mr. SPECTER. That's Harry Hines Boulevard right in front of the
hospital?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes; I ran up the stairs to the Anesthesia Department,
that's on the second floor--one floor above the dining room, where I
was, and notified two members of the Department, the first two I saw,
my Chief Associate, Dr. A. H. Giesecke, Jr., and Dr. Jackie Hunt, that
the President had been shot and was being brought to the emergency room
and for them to bring all the resuscitative equipment we have including
an anesthesia machine. The emergency room is set up well, but we are
used to working with our own equipment and I asked them to bring it
down and I ran down the back stairs, two flights down, and I arrived in
the emergency room just after or right behind him being wheeled in, I
guess.
Mr. SPECTER. At about what time did you arrive at the emergency room?
Dr. JENKINS. Oh, this was around 12:30-12:35 to 12:40. I shouldn't be
indefinite about this--in our own specialty practice, we watch the
clock closely, and there are many things we have to keep up with, but I
didn't get that time exactly, I'll admit.
Mr. SPECTER. Who was present at the time of your arrival in the
emergency room, if anyone?
Dr. JENKINS. The hallway was loaded with people.
Mr. SPECTER. What medical personnel were in attendance?
Dr. JENKINS. Including Mrs. Kennedy, I recognized, and Secret Service
men, I didn't know whether to block the way or get out of it, as it
turned out. Dr. James Carrico and Dr. Dulany--Dick Dulany, I guess you
have his name, and several nurses were in the room.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you identify the nurses?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, not really. I could identify them only having later
looked around and identified from my own record that I have, the names
of all who were there later. Now, whether they are the same ones when I
first went there, I don't know. I have all the names in my report, it
seemed to me.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you now identify all of the nurses from your later
observations of them?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, I can identify who was in there at the close of the
procedure, that is, the doctors, as well as those who were helping.
Mr. SPECTER. Fine, would you do that for us, please?
Dr. JENKINS. These included a Mrs. or Miss Patricia Hutton and Miss
Diana Bowron, B-o-w-r-o-n (spelling), and a Miss Henchliffe--I don't
know her first name, but I do know it is Henchliffe.
Mr. SPECTER. Margaret?
Dr. JENKINS. Margaret--certainly. Those three--there were probably some
student nurses too, whom I didn't recognize. Shall I continue?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, please. Have you now covered all the people you
recollect as being in the room?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, as I came into the room, I saw only
the--actually--you know, in the haste of the coming of the President,
two doctors whom I recognized, and there were other people and I have
identified all I remember.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to the President's condition when
you arrived in the emergency room?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, I was aware of what he was in an agonal state. This
is not a too unfamiliar state that we see in the Service, as much
trauma as we see, that is, he had the agonal respiratory gasp made
up of jerking movements of the mylohyoid group of muscles. These are
referred to sometimes as chin jerk, tracheal tug or agonal muscles
of respiration. He had this characteristic of respiration. His eyes
were opened and somewhat exophthalmic and color was greatly suffused,
cyanotic--a purplish cyanosis.
Still, we have patients in the state, as far as cyanosis and agonal
type respiration, who are resuscitatable. Of course, you don't stop at
this time and think, "Well, this is a hopeless circumstance,"--because
one in this state can often be resusciated--this represents the
activities prior to one's demise sometimes, and if it can be stopped,
such as the patient is oxygenated again and circulation reinstituted,
he can be saved.
Dr. Carrico had just introduced an endotracheal tube, I'm very proud
of him for this because it's not as easy as it sounds. At times and
under the circumstances--it was harder--he had just completed a 3-month
rotation on the anesthesiology service, and I thought this represented
good background training for a smart individual, and he told me he had
a cuff on the endotracheal tube and he introduced it below the wound.
The reason I said this, of course, this is a reflex--there is a tube,
the endotracheal tube, if it is pushed down a little too far it can go
into the right main stem of the bronchus impairing respiration from
both lungs, or both chests.
There was in the room an intermittent positive pressure breathing
apparatus, which can be used to respire for a patient. As I connected
this up, however, Dr. Carrico and I connected it up to give oxygen
by artificial respiration, Dr. Giesecke and Dr. Hunt arrived on the
scene with the anesthesia machine and I connected it up instead with
something I am more familiar with--not for anesthesia, I must insist on
that--it was for the oxygenation, the ability to control ventilation
with 100 percent oxygen.
As I came in there, other people came in also. This is my recollection.
Now, by this time I was in familiar surroundings, despite the anguish
of the circumstance.
Despite the unusual circumstance, in terms of the distinguished
personage who was the patient, I think the people who had gathered
or who had congregated were so accustomed to doing resuscitative
procedures of this nature that they knew where to fit into the
resuscitation team without having a preconceived or predirected plan,
because, as obviously--some people were doing things not necessarily in
their specialty, but there was the opening and there was the necessity
for this being done.
There were three others who came in as I did who recognized at once the
neck wound, in fact, where the wound was, would indicate that we would
have serious pulmonary problems unless a tracheotomy tube was put in.
This is one way of avoiding pushing air out through a fractured trachea
and down into each chest cavity, which would cause a pneumothorax or
a collapse of the lungs. These were doctors Malcolm Perry, Charley
Baxter, and Robert McClelland, who with Dr. Carrico's help, I believe,
started the tracheotomy.
About this time Drs. Kemp Clark and Paul Peters came in, and Dr.
Peters because of the appearance of the right chest, the obvious
physical characteristics of a pneumothorax, put in a closed chest
drainage--chest tube. Because I felt no peripheral pulse and was not
aware of any pulse, I reported this to Dr. Clark and he started closed
chest cardiac massage.
There were other people--one which started an I.V. in a cutdown in
the right leg and one a cutdown in the left arm. Two of my department
connected up the cardioscope, in which we had electrical silence on
the cardioscope as Dr. Clark started closed chest massage. That's the
sequence of events as I reconstructed them that day and dictated them
on my report, which you have here, I think.
Mr. SPECTER. Speaking of your report, Dr. Jenkins, permit me to show
you a group of papers heretofore identified as Commission Exhibit
No. 392 which has also been identified by Mr. Price, the hospital
Administrator, as being photostatic copies of original reports in his
possession and controlled as Custodian of Records, and I show you what
purports to be a report from you to Mr. Price, dated November 22, 1963,
and ask you if in fact this 2-page report was submitted by you to Mr.
Price?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes; it was.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, going back to the wound which you observed in the
neck, did you see that wound before the tracheotomy was performed?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes; I did, because I was just connecting up the
endotracheal tube to the machine at the time and that's when Dr.
Carrico said there was a wound in the neck and I looked at it.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you describe that wound as specifically as you can?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, I'm afraid my description of it would not be as
accurate, of course, as that of the surgeons who were doing the
tracheotomy, because my look was a quick look before connecting up
the endotracheal tube to the apparatus to help in ventilation and
respiration for the patient, and I was aware later in the day, as I
should have put it in the report, that I thought this was a wound
of exit because it was not a clean wound, and by "clean" clearly
demarcated, round, punctate wound which is the usual wound of an
entrance wound, made by a missile and at some speed. Of course,
entrance wounds with a lobbing type missile, can make a jagged wound
also, but I was of the impression and I recognized I had the impression
it was an exit wound. However, my mental appreciation for a wound--for
the wound in the neck, I believe, was sort of--was overshadowed by
recognition of the wound in the scalp and skull plate.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you now described the wound in the neck as
specifically as you can at this moment?
Dr. JENKINS. I believe so.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, will you now describe the wound which you observed in
the head?
Dr. JENKINS. Almost by the time I was--had the time to pay more
attention to the wound in the head, all of these other activities were
under way. I was busy connecting up an apparatus to respire for the
patient, exerting manual pressure on the breathing bag or anesthesia
apparatus, trying to feel for a pulse in the neck, and then reaching up
and feeling for one in the temporal area, seeing about connecting the
cardioscope or directing its being connected, and then turned attention
to the wound in the head.
Now, Dr. Clark had begun closed chest cardiac massage at this time
and I was aware of the magnitude of the wound, because with each
compression of the chest, there was a great rush of blood from the
skull wound. Part of the brain was herniated; I really think part of
the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound; there
was part of the brain tissue, broken fragments of the brain tissue on
the drapes of the cart on which the President lay.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any wounds immediately below the massive
loss of skull which you have described?
Dr. JENKINS. On the right side?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir.
Dr. JENKINS. No--I don't know whether this is right or not, but I
thought there was a wound on the left temporal area, right in the
hairline and right above the zygomatic process.
Mr. SPECTER. The autopsy report discloses no such development, Dr.
Jenkins.
Dr. JENKINS. Well, I was feeling for--I was palpating here for a pulse
to see whether the closed chest cardiac massage was effective or not
and this probably was some blood that had come from the other point and
so I thought there was a wound there also.
Mr. SPECTER. At approximately what time was President Kennedy
pronounced dead?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, this was pronounced, we know the exact time as 1300,
according to my watch, at least, at the time.
Mr. SPECTER. And what, in your opinion, was the cause of death?
Dr. JENKINS. Cerebral injury--brain injury.
Mr. SPECTER. Was President Kennedy ever turned over during the course
of this treatment at Parkland?
Dr. JENKINS. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Why was he not turned over, Dr. Jenkins?
Dr. JENKINS. Oh, I think this was beyond our prerogative completely. I
think as we pronounced the President dead, those in attendance who were
there just sort of melted away, well, I guess "melted" is the wrong
word, but we felt like we were intruders and left. I'm sure that this
was considerably beyond our prerogative, and the facts were we knew he
had a fatal wound, and I think my own personal feeling was that this
was--would have been meddlesome on anybody's part after death to have
done any further search.
Mr. SPECTER. Was any examination of his back made before death, to your
knowledge?
Dr. JENKINS. No, no; I'm sure there wasn't.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he remain on the stretcher cart at all times while he
was being cared for?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes, sir.
Can I say something that isn't in the report here, or not?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes; let's go off the record a minute.
(Discussion off the record between Counsel Specter and the witness, Dr.
Jenkins.)
Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that we are back on the record and
Dr. Jenkins has made an interesting observation about the time of the
declaration of death, and I will ask you, Dr. Jenkins, for you to
repeat for the record what you have just said off the record.
Dr. JENKINS. As the resuscitative maneuvers were begun, such as
"chest cardiac massage," there was with each compression of the
sternum, a gush of blood from the skull wound, which indicated there
was massive vascular damage in the skull and the brain, as well as
brain tissue damage, and we recognized by this time that the patient
was beyond the point of resuscitation, that he was in fact dead, and
this was substantiated by getting a silent electrical pattern on the
electrocardiogram, the cardioscope that was connected up.
However, for a period of minutes, but I can't now define exactly, since
I didn't put this in a report, after we knew he was dead, we continued
attempted resuscitative maneuvers.
When we saw the two priests who arrived in the corridor outside the
emergency room where this was taking place, I went to the door and
asked one of those--after turning over my ventilation, my respiration
job to another one of my department--and asked him what is the proper
time to declare one dead. That is, I am not a Catholic and I was not
sure of the time for the last rites. As I remember now, he said, "The
time that the soul leaves the body--is not at exactly the time that
medical testimony might say that death was declared." There would be
a period of time and so if we wished to declare him dead at that time
they would still have the final rites.
Mr. SPECTER. Did they then have the final rites after the time he was
declared dead medically?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, just a minute now--I suspect that was hazy to me
that day--I'm not sure, it's still hazy. This was a very personal--on
the part of the very anguished occasion, and Mrs. Kennedy had come back
into the room and most of the people were beginning to leave because
they felt like this was such a grief stricken and private affair that
they should not be there. It was real intrusion even after they put
forth such efforts at resuscitation and I'm not sure now whether the
priests came in while I was still doing the resuscitative procedure,
respiration at least, and while Dr. Clark was still doing the other. My
memory is that we had stopped. I was still present, however, and that's
the reason I'm not clear, because I hadn't left the room and I was
still there as the rites were performed and a prayer was said.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Jenkins, would your observation of the wound and your
characterization of it as an exit hole be consistent with a set of
facts which I will ask you to assume for purposes of giving me your
view or opinion.
Assume, first of all, if you will, that President Kennedy had a wound
on the upper right posterior thorax just above the upper border of
the scapula, measuring 14 cm. from the tip of the right acromion
process and 14 cm. below the tip of the right mastoid process, and
that the missile was a 6.5 mm. jacketed bullet fired from a weapon
having a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 feet per second and
approximately 160 to 250 feet from the President, and that after
entering the President's body at the point indicated, the missile
traveled between two strap muscles and through a fascia plane without
violating the pleura cavity, and then struck the right side of the
trachea and exited through the throat, would the throat wound which
you observed be consistent with such a wound inflicted in the manner I
have just described?
Dr. JENKINS. As far as I know, it wouldn't be inconsistent with it, Mr.
Specter.
Mr. SPECTER. What has your experience been with gunshot wounds, that
is, to what extent have you had experience with such wounds?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, having been Chief of the Anesthesia Service here for
this 16 years, we have a rather large trauma emergency service, and so
I see gunshot wounds many times a week. I'm afraid I couldn't hazard
a guess at the moment as to how many we see a year, and I'm afraid
probably if I knew, I would not like to admit to this number, but I
do go further in saying that my main interest is not in the tracks of
the wounds. My main interest is what physiological changes that they
have caused to the patient that I am to anesthetize or a member of the
department is to anesthetize, what has happened to the cardiovascular
system, respiratory, and neurological, and so I am aware of the wounds
of entrance and exit only by a peripheral part of my knowledge and
activities during the time.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever had any formal training in ballistics or in
exit wounds or entrance wounds--bullet wounds?
Dr. JENKINS. No, I have not.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you talked to any representative of the Federal
Government at any time prior to today?
Dr. JENKINS. Oh, there was a man whose name I don't remember now, who
showed what looked like the proper credentials from the FBI, who came
to ask only whether the report I had submitted to Mr. Price for the
hospital record or for Mr. Price's record constituted all the reports I
had. That's the only time, and that was the extent of our conversation,
I think.
Mr. SPECTER. And is that the only written record you have of your
participation in the treatment of the President?
Dr. JENKINS. Oh, I submitted one to the Dean of the Medical School,
essentially the same, and a very little more. I don't think you have
that. I don't know whether you want it or not.
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, I would like to see it.
Dr. JENKINS. It is essentially the same report--however--can I ask you
something off of the record here?
Mr. SPECTER. Sure.
(Discussion between Counsel Specter and the witness, Dr. Jenkins, off
the record.)
Mr. SPECTER. The record will show that we have been off the record on a
couple of matters which I am going to now put on the record, but I will
ask the court reporter to identify this as Dr. Jenkins' Exhibit No. 36.
(Instrument referred to marked by the Reporter as Dr. Jenkins' Exhibit
No. 36, for identification.)
Mr. SPECTER. I will ask you, Dr. Jenkins, for the record to identify
this as a report which you submitted to Dean Gill.
Dr. JENKINS. Yes, it is.
Mr. SPECTER. And is this in conjunction with the report you submitted
to Mr. Price--do these reports constitute all the writings you have on
your participation in the treatment of President Kennedy?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes; that's right.
Mr. SPECTER. One of the comments we were just discussing off the
record--I would like to put on the record, Dr. Jenkins, is the question
as to whether or not the wound in the neck would have been fatal in
your opinion, absent the head wound. What would your view of that be?
Dr. JENKINS. Well, from my knowledge of the wound in the neck, this
would not have been fatal, except for one thing, and that is--you have
not told me whether the wound with its point of entrance and point of
exit had contacted the vertebral column in its course?
Mr. SPECTER. It did not.
Dr. JENKINS. In that case I would not expect this wound to have been
fatal.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your view, Dr. Jenkins, as to whether the wounds
which you observed were caused by one or two bullets?
Dr. JENKINS. I felt quite sure at the time that there must have been
two bullets--two missiles.
Mr. SPECTER. And, Dr. Jenkins, what was your reason for that?
Dr. JENKINS. Because the wound with the exploded area of the scalp, as
I interpreted it being exploded, I would interpret it being a wound of
exit, and the appearance of the wound in the neck, and I also thought
it was a wound of exit.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever changed any of your original opinions in
connection with the wounds received by President Kennedy?
Dr. JENKINS. I guess so. The first day I had thought because of his
pneumothorax, that his wound must have gone--that the one bullet must
have traversed his pleura, must have gotten into his lung cavity, his
chest cavity, I mean, and from what you say now, I know it did not go
that way. I thought it did.
Mr. SPECTER. Aside from that opinion, now, have any of your other
opinions about the nature of his wounds or the sources of the wounds
been changed in any way?
Dr. JENKINS. No; one other. I asked you a little bit ago if there was a
wound in the left temporal area, right above the zygomatic bone in the
hairline, because there was blood there and I thought there might have
been a wound there (indicating).
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the left temporal area?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes; the left temporal, which could have been a point of
entrance and exit here (indicating), but you have answered that for me.
This was my only other question about it.
Mr. SPECTER. So, that those two points are the only ones on which your
opinions have been changed since the views you originally formulated?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes, I think so.
Mr. SPECTER. On the President's injuries?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes, I think so.
Mr. SPECTER. Is the conversation you had with that Secret Service
Agent the only time you were interviewed by anyone from the Federal
Government prior to today about this subject?
Dr. JENKINS. As far as I remember--I don't believe so.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you say that was the only time you were interviewed?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes, as far as I remember--I have had no formal
interviews. I have been asked--there have been some people calling on
the phone. As you know, there were many calls from various sources
all over the country after that, wanting to know whether we had done
this method of treatment or some other method and what principles we
followed.
Mr. SPECTER. But the only one you can identify as being from the
Federal Government is the one you have already related from the Secret
Service?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And did you and I have a very brief conversation before
the deposition started today, when you gave me some of your views which
you expounded and expanded upon during the course of the deposition on
the record?
Dr. JENKINS. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And is there anything which you think of to add that
you believe would be of some assistance or any assistance to the
President's Commission in its inquiry?
Dr. JENKINS. I believe not, Mr. Specter.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Jenkins.
Dr. JENKINS. All right.