ALCIBIADES, SOCRATES.

[Sidenote: _Alcibiades I._]

[Sidenote: The pride of Alcibiades has been too much for his lovers.]

_Socrates._ I dare say that you may be surprised to find, =Steph.= 103

O son of Cleinias, that I, who am your first lover, not having

spoken to you for many years, when the rest of the world

were wearying you with their attentions, am the last of your

lovers who still speaks to you. The cause of my silence has

been that I was hindered by a power more than human, of

which I will some day explain to you the nature; this impediment

has now been removed; I therefore here present

myself before you, and I greatly hope that no similar

hindrance will again occur. Meanwhile, I have observed

that your pride has been too much for the pride of your

admirers; they were numerous and high-spirited, but they

have all run away, overpowered by your superior force of

character; not one of them remains. And I want you to 104

understand the reason why you have been too much for

them. You think that you have no need of them or of any

other man, for you have great possessions and lack nothing,

beginning with the body, and ending with the soul. In the

first place, you say to yourself that you are the fairest and

tallest of the citizens, and this every one who has eyes may

see to be true; in the second place, that you are among the

noblest of them, highly connected both on the father’s and

the mother’s side, and sprung from one of the most distinguished

families in your own state, which is the greatest in

Hellas, and having many friends and kinsmen of the best

sort, who can assist you when in need; and there is one

potent relative, who is more to you than all the rest, Pericles

the son of Xanthippus, whom your father left guardian of

you, and of your brother, and who can do as he pleases

not only in this city, but in all Hellas, and among many and

mighty barbarous nations. Moreover, you are rich; but I

must say that you value yourself least of all upon your

possessions. And all these things have lifted you up; you

have overcome your lovers, and they have acknowledged that

you were too much for them. Have you not remarked their

absence? And now I know that you wonder why I, unlike

the rest of them, have not gone away, and what can be my

motive in remaining.

[Sidenote: _The extravagant aspiration_]

_Alcibiades._ Perhaps, Socrates, you are not aware that I was

just going to ask you the very same question—What do you

want? And what is your motive in annoying me, and

always, wherever I am, making a point of coming[55]? I do

really wonder what you mean, and should greatly like to

know.

_Soc._ Then if, as you say, you desire to know, I suppose that

you will be willing to hear, and I may consider myself to be

speaking to an auditor who will remain, and will not run

away?

_Al._ Certainly, let me hear.

_Soc._ You had better be careful, for I may very likely be as

unwilling to end as I have hitherto been to begin.

_Al._ Proceed, my good man, and I will listen.

[Sidenote: Alcibiades a lover, not of pleasure, but of ambition; and he

requires the help of Socrates for the accomplishment of his designs.]

[Sidenote: And this is the reason why Socrates has clung to him; he is

hoping when Alcibiades has become the ruler of Athens to rule over him.]

[Sidenote: _in which Alcibiades indulges._]

_Soc._ I will proceed; and, although no lover likes to speak

with one who has no feeling of love in him[56], I will make an

effort, and tell you what I meant: My love, Alcibiades, which 105

I hardly like to confess, would long ago have passed away, as

I flatter myself, if I saw you loving your good things, or

thinking that you ought to pass life in the enjoyment of them.

But I shall reveal other thoughts of yours, which you keep to

yourself; whereby you will know that I have always had my

eye on you. Suppose that at this moment some God came

to you and said: Alcibiades, will you live as you are, or die

in an instant if you are forbidden to make any further acquisition?—I

verily believe that you would choose death.

And I will tell you the hope in which you are at present

living: Before many days have elapsed, you think that you

will come before the Athenian assembly, and will prove to

them that you are more worthy of honour than Pericles, or

any other man that ever lived, and having proved this, you

will have the greatest power in the state. When you have

gained the greatest power among us, you will go on to other

Hellenic states, and not only to Hellenes, but to all the barbarians

who inhabit the same continent with us. And if the

God were then to say to you again: Here in Europe is to be

your seat of empire, and you must not cross over into Asia or

meddle with Asiatic affairs, I do not believe that you would

choose to live upon these terms; but the world, as I may say,

must be filled with your power and name—no man less than

Cyrus and Xerxes is of any account with you. Such I know

to be your hopes—I am not guessing only—and very likely

you, who know that I am speaking the truth, will reply, Well,

Socrates, but what have my hopes to do with the explanation

which you promised of your unwillingness to leave me?

And that is what I am now going to tell you, sweet son

of Cleinias and Dinomachè. The explanation is, that all

these designs of yours cannot be accomplished by you

without my help; so great is the power which I believe

myself to have over you and your concerns; and this

I conceive to be the reason why the God has hitherto forbidden

me to converse with you, and I have been long

expecting his permission. For, as you hope to prove your

own great value to the state, and having proved it, to attain

at once to absolute power, so do I indulge a hope that I shall

have the supreme power over you, if I am able to prove my

own great value to you, and to show you that neither

guardian, nor kinsman, nor any one is able to deliver into

your hands the power which you desire, but I only, God

being my helper. When you were young[57] and your hopes

were not yet matured, I should have wasted my time, and

therefore, as I conceive, the God forbade me to converse with 106

you; but now, having his permission, I will speak, for now

you will listen to me.

[Sidenote: Alcibiades does not deny the impeachment.]

[Sidenote: _The qualifications of Alcibiades for statesmanship_]

_Al._ Your silence, Socrates, was always a surprise to me.

I never could understand why you followed me about, and

now that you have begun to speak again, I am still more

amazed. Whether I think all this or not, is a matter about

which you seem to have already made up your mind, and

therefore my denial will have no effect upon you. But

granting, if I must, that you have perfectly divined my purposes,

why is your assistance necessary to the attainment of

them? Can you tell me why?

_Soc._ You want to know whether I can make a long speech,

such as you are in the habit of hearing; but that is not my

way. I think, however, that I can prove to you the truth of

what I am saying, if you will grant me one little favour.

_Al._ Yes, if the favour which you mean be not a troublesome

one.

_Soc._ Will you be troubled at having questions to answer?

[Sidenote: Alcibiades is willing to answer questions.]

_Al._ Not at all.

_Soc._ Then please to answer.

_Al._ Ask me.

_Soc._ Have you not the intention which I attribute to

you?

_Al._ I will grant anything you like, in the hope of hearing

what more you have to say.

_Soc._ You do, then, mean, as I was saying, to come forward

in a little while in the character of an adviser of the

Athenians? And suppose that when you are ascending the

bema, I pull you by the sleeve and say, Alcibiades, you are

getting up to advise the Athenians—do you know the matter

about which they are going to deliberate, better than they?—How

would you answer?

[Sidenote: He is going to advise the Athenians about matters which he

knows better than they.]

_Al._ I should reply, that I was going to advise them about a

matter which I do know better than they.

_Soc._ Then you are a good adviser about the things which

you know?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And do you know anything but what you have learned

of others, or found out yourself?

_Al._ That is all.

_Soc._ And would you have ever learned or discovered anything,

if you had not been willing either to learn of others or

to examine yourself?

_Al._ I should not.

[Sidenote: _are tested by Socrates._]

_Soc._ And would you have been willing to learn or to

examine what you supposed that you knew?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ Then there was a time when you thought that you did

not know what you are now supposed to know?

_Al._ Certainly.

[Sidenote: But when did he ever learn about these matters?]

_Soc._ I think that I know tolerably well the extent of your

acquirements; and you must tell me if I forget any of them:

according to my recollection, you learned the arts of writing,

of playing on the lyre, and of wrestling; the flute you never

would learn; this is the sum of your accomplishments, unless

there were some which you acquired in secret; and I think

that secrecy was hardly possible, as you could not have come

out of your door, either by day or night, without my seeing

you.

_Al._ Yes, that was the whole of my schooling.

_Soc._ And are you going to get up in the Athenian assembly, 107

and give them advice about writing?

_Al._ No, indeed.

_Soc._ Or about the touch of the lyre?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ And they are not in the habit of deliberating about

wrestling, in the assembly?

_Al._ Hardly.

_Soc._ Then what are the deliberations in which you propose

to advise them? Surely not about building?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ For the builder will advise better than you will about

that?

_Al._ He will.

_Soc._ Nor about divination?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ About that again the diviner will advise better than

you will?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ Whether he be little or great, good or ill-looking,

noble or ignoble—makes no difference.

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ A man is a good adviser about anything, not because

he has riches, but because he has knowledge?

[Sidenote: _The cross-examination of_]

_Al._ Assuredly.

_Soc._ Whether their counsellor is rich or poor, is not a

matter which will make any difference to the Athenians when

they are deliberating about the health of the citizens; they

only require that he should be a physician.

_Al._ Of course.

_Soc._ Then what will be the subject of deliberation about

which you will be justified in getting up and advising them?

_Al._ About their own concerns, Socrates.

_Soc._ You mean about shipbuilding, for example, when the

question is what sort of ships they ought to build?

_Al._ No, I should not advise them about that.

_Soc._ I suppose, because you do not understand shipbuilding:—is

that the reason?

_Al._ It is.

_Soc._ Then about what concerns of theirs will you advise

them?

[Sidenote: He will advise them about war and peace, and with whom they

had better go to war, and when and how long.]

_Al._ About war, Socrates, or about peace, or about any

other concerns of the state.

_Soc._ You mean, when they deliberate with whom they

ought to make peace, and with whom they ought to go to

war, and in what manner?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And they ought to go to war with those against whom

it is better to go to war?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And when it is better?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And for as long a time as is better?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ But suppose the Athenians to deliberate with whom

they ought to close in wrestling, and whom they should

grasp by the hand, would you, or the master of gymnastics,

be a better adviser of them?

_Al._ Clearly, the master of gymnastics.

_Soc._ And can you tell me on what grounds the master of

gymnastics would decide, with whom they ought or ought not

to close, and when and how? To take an instance: Would

he not say that they should wrestle with those against whom

it is best to wrestle?

[Sidenote: _Alcibiades is continued._]

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And as much as is best? 108

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And at such times as are best?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Again; you sometimes accompany the lyre with the

song and dance?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ When it is well to do so?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And as much as is well?

_Al._ Just so.

_Soc._ And as you speak of an excellence or art of the best

in wrestling, and of an excellence in playing the lyre, I wish

you would tell me what this latter is;—the excellence of

wrestling I call gymnastic, and I want to know what you call

the other.

_Al._ I do not understand you.

_Soc._ Then try to do as I do; for the answer which I gave

is universally right, and when I say right, I mean according

to rule.

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And was not the art of which I spoke gymnastic?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And I called the excellence in wrestling gymnastic?

_Al._ You did.

_Soc._ And I was right?

_Al._ I think that you were.

[Sidenote: Alcibiades should learn to argue nicely.]

_Soc._ Well, now,—for you should learn to argue prettily—let

me ask you in return to tell me, first, what is that art of

which playing and singing, and stepping properly in the dance,

are parts,—what is the name of the whole? I think that by

this time you must be able to tell.

_Al._ Indeed I cannot.

_Soc._ Then let me put the matter in another way: what

do you call the Goddesses who are the patronesses of

art?

_Al._ The Muses do you mean, Socrates?

_Soc._ Yes, I do; and what is the name of the art which is

called after them?

[Sidenote: _What is the better?_]

_Al._ I suppose that you mean music.

[Sidenote: What is the meaning of ‘the better,’ ‘the more excellent.’]

_Soc._ Yes, that is my meaning; and what is the excellence

of the art of music, as I told you truly that the excellence of

wrestling was gymnastic—what is the excellence of music—to

be what?

_Al._ To be musical, I suppose.

_Soc._ Very good; and now please to tell me what is the

excellence of war and peace; as the more musical was the

more excellent, or the more gymnastical was the more excellent,

tell me, what name do you give to the more excellent in

war and peace?

_Al._ But I really cannot tell you.

[Sidenote: The term better, when applied to food, means more wholesome.]

_Soc._ But if you were offering advice to another and said

to him—This food is better than that, at this time and in this

quantity, and he said to you—What do you mean, Alcibiades,

by the word ‘better’? you would have no difficulty in replying

that you meant ‘more wholesome,’ although you do not

profess to be a physician: and when the subject is one of

which you profess to have knowledge, and about which you

are ready to get up and advise as if you knew, are you not

ashamed, when you are asked, not to be able to answer the

question? Is it not disgraceful? 109

_Al._ Very.

_Soc._ Well, then, consider and try to explain what is the

meaning of ‘better,’ in the matter of making peace and going

to war with those against whom you ought to go to war? To

what does the word refer?

_Al._ I am thinking, and I cannot tell.

_Soc._ But you surely know what are the charges which we

bring against one another, when we arrive at the point of

making war, and what name we give them?

_Al._ Yes, certainly; we say that deceit or violence has been

employed, or that we have been defrauded.

_Soc._ And how does this happen? Will you tell me how?

For there may be a difference in the manner.

_Al._ Do you mean by ‘how,’ Socrates, whether we suffered

these things justly or unjustly?

_Soc._ Exactly.

_Al._ There can be no greater difference than between just

and unjust.

[Sidenote: _What is the better?_]

_Soc._ And would you advise the Athenians to go to war with

the just or with the unjust?

_Al._ That is an awkward question; for certainly, even if a

person did intend to go to war with the just, he would not

admit that they were just.

_Soc._ He would not go to war, because it would be

unlawful?

_Al._ Neither lawful nor honourable.

_Soc._ Then you, too, would address them on principles of

justice?

_Al._ Certainly.

[Sidenote: In going to war or not going to war, the better is the more

just.]

_Soc._ What, then, is justice but that better, of which I spoke,

in going to war or not going to war with those against whom

we ought or ought not, and when we ought or ought not to

go to war?

_Al._ Clearly.

_Soc._ But how is this, friend Alcibiades? Have you forgotten

that you do not know this, or have you been to the

schoolmaster without my knowledge, and has he taught you

to discern the just from the unjust? Who is he? I wish

you would tell me, that I may go and learn of him—you shall

introduce me.

_Al._ You are mocking, Socrates.

[Sidenote: But where did Alcibiades acquire this notion of just and

unjust?]

_Soc._ No, indeed; I most solemnly declare to you by Zeus,

who is the God of our common friendship, and whom I never

will forswear, that I am not; tell me, then, who this instructor

is, if he exists.

_Al._ But, perhaps, he does not exist; may I not have

acquired the knowledge of just and unjust in some other way?

_Soc._ Yes; if you have discovered them.

_Al._ But do you not think that I could discover them?

_Soc._ I am sure that you might, if you enquired about

them.

_Al._ And do you not think that I would enquire?

_Soc._ Yes; if you thought that you did not know them.

_Al._ And was there not a time when I did so think?

_Soc._ Very good; and can you tell me how long it is

since you thought that you did not know the nature of the 110

just and the unjust? What do you say to a year ago?

Were you then in a state of conscious ignorance and enquiry?

or did you think that you knew? And please to answer

truly, that our discussion may not be in vain.

[Sidenote: _The nature of just and unjust._]

_Al._ Well, I thought that I knew.

_Soc._ And two years ago, and three years ago, and four

years ago, you knew all the same?

_Al._ I did.

_Soc._ And more than four years ago you were a child—were

you not?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And then I am quite sure that you thought you knew.

_Al._ Why are you so sure?

[Sidenote: He always had them.]

_Soc._ Because I often heard you when a child, in your

teacher’s house, or elsewhere, playing at dice or some other

game with the boys, not hesitating at all about the nature of

the just and unjust; but very confident—crying and shouting

that one of the boys was a rogue and a cheat, and had been

cheating. Is it not true?

_Al._ But what was I to do, Socrates, when anybody cheated

me?

_Soc._ And how can you say, ‘What was I to do’? if at the

time you did not know whether you were wronged or not?

_Al._ To be sure I knew; I was quite aware that I was being

cheated.

_Soc._ Then you suppose yourself even when a child to have

known the nature of just and unjust?

_Al._ Certainly; and I did know then.

_Soc._ And when did you discover them—not, surely, at the

time when you thought that you knew them?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ And when did you think that you were ignorant—if

you consider, you will find that there never was such a time?

_Al._ Really, Socrates, I cannot say.

_Soc._ Then you did not learn them by discovering them?

_Al._ Clearly not.

_Soc._ But just before you said that you did not know them by

learning; now, if you have neither discovered nor learned

them, how and whence do you come to know them?

_Al._ I suppose that I was mistaken in saying that I knew

them through my own discovery of them; whereas, in truth,

I learned them in the same way that other people learn.

[Sidenote: _Could the many have taught the principles of justice?_]

_Soc._ So you said before, and I must again ask, of whom?

Do tell me.

_Al._ Of the many.

[Sidenote: He learned them of the many, as he learned Greek;—of those who

knew it.]

_Soc._ Do you take refuge in them? I cannot say much for

your teachers.

_Al._ Why, are they not able to teach?

_Soc._ They could not teach you how to play at draughts,

which you would acknowledge (would you not) to be a much

smaller matter than justice?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And can they teach the better who are unable to teach

the worse?

_Al._ I think that they can; at any rate, they can teach many

far better things than to play at draughts.

_Soc._ What things? 111

_Al._ Why, for example, I learned to speak Greek of them,

and I cannot say who was my teacher, or to whom I am to

attribute my knowledge of Greek, if not to those good-for-nothing

teachers, as you call them.

_Soc._ Why, yes, my friend; and the many are good enough

teachers of Greek, and some of their instructions in that line

may be justly praised.

_Al._ Why is that?

_Soc._ Why, because they have the qualities which good

teachers ought to have.

_Al._ What qualities?

_Soc._ Why, you know that knowledge is the first qualification

of any teacher?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And if they know, they must agree together and not

differ?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And would you say that they knew the things about

which they differ?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ Then how can they teach them?

_Al._ They cannot.

[Sidenote: Yes: the many can teach things about which they are agreed.]

_Soc._ Well, but do you imagine that the many would differ

about the nature of wood and stone? are they not agreed if

you ask them what they are? and do they not run to fetch

the same thing, when they want a piece of wood or a stone?

And so in similar cases, which I suspect to be pretty nearly

all that you mean by speaking Greek.

[Sidenote: _That wars are caused by differences about just_]

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ These, as we were saying, are matters about which

they are agreed with one another and with themselves; both

individuals and states use the same words about them; they

do not use some one word and some another.

_Al._ They do not.

_Soc._ Then they may be expected to be good teachers of

these things?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And if we want to instruct any one in them, we shall

be right in sending him to be taught by our friends the

many?

_Al._ Very true.

_Soc._ But if we wanted further to know not only which

are men and which are horses, but which men or horses

have powers of running, would the many still be able to

inform us?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ And you have a sufficient proof that they do not know

these things and are not the best teachers of them, inasmuch

as they are never agreed about them?

_Al._ Yes.

[Sidenote: But could the many teach things about which they are

disagreed?]

_Soc._ And suppose that we wanted to know not only what

men are like, but what healthy or diseased men are like—would

the many be able to teach us?

_Al._ They would not.

_Soc._ And you would have a proof that they were bad

teachers of these matters, if you saw them at variance?

_Al._ I should.

[Sidenote: And one of these things is justice.]

_Soc._ Well, but are the many agreed with themselves, or

with one another, about the justice or injustice of men and 112

things?

_Al._ Assuredly not, Socrates.

_Soc._ There is no subject about which they are more at

variance?

_Al._ None.

[Sidenote: _and unjust proved out of Homer._]

_Soc._ I do not suppose that you ever saw or heard of men

quarrelling over the principles of health and disease to such

an extent as to go to war and kill one another for the sake of

them?

[Sidenote: Did not a question of justice cause the war between the

Trojans and Achaeans, and between the Athenians Lacedaemonians?]

_Al._ No indeed.

_Soc._ But of the quarrels about justice and injustice, even

if you have never seen them, you have certainly heard from

many people, including Homer; for you have heard of the

Iliad and Odyssey?

_Al._ To be sure, Socrates.

_Soc._ A difference of just and unjust is the argument of and

those poems?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ Which difference caused all the wars and deaths of

Trojans and Achaeans, and the deaths of the suitors of

Penelope in their quarrel with Odysseus.

_Al._ Very true.

_Soc._ And when the Athenians and Lacedaemonians and

Boeotians fell at Tanagra, and afterwards in the battle of

Coronea, at which your father Cleinias met his end, the

question was one of justice—this was the sole cause of the

battles, and of their deaths.

_Al._ Very true.

[Sidenote: And yet they did not know what they were fighting about?]

_Soc._ But can they be said to understand that about which

they are quarrelling to the death?

_Al._ Clearly not.

_Soc._ And yet those whom you thus allow to be ignorant

are the teachers to whom you are appealing.

_Al._ Very true.

_Soc._ But how are you ever likely to know the nature of

justice and injustice, about which you are so perplexed, if

you have neither learned them of others nor discovered them

yourself?

_Al._ From what you say, I suppose not.

_Soc._ See, again, how inaccurately you speak, Alcibiades!

_Al._ In what respect?

_Soc._ In saying that I say so.

_Al._ Why, did you not say that I know nothing of the just

and unjust?

_Soc._ No; I did not.

_Al._ Did I, then?

[Sidenote: _Is it Socrates or Alcibiades_]

_Soc._ Yes.

_Al._ How was that?

_Soc._ Let me explain. Suppose I were to ask you which

is the greater number, two or one; you would reply ‘two’?

_Al._ I should.

_Soc._ And by how much greater?

_Al._ By one.

_Soc._ Which of us now says that two is more than one?

_Al._ I do.

_Soc._ Did not I ask, and you answer the question?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then who is speaking? I who put the question, or 113

you who answer me?

_Al._ I am.

[Sidenote: The answerer, not the questioner, has been drawing these

inferences.]

_Soc._ Or suppose that I ask and you tell me the letters

which make up the name Socrates, which of us is the

speaker?

_Al._ I am.

_Soc._ Now let us put the case generally: whenever there is

a question and answer, who is the speaker,—the questioner

or the answerer?

_Al._ I should say, Socrates, that the answerer was the

speaker.

_Soc._ And have I not been the questioner all through?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And you the answerer?

_Al._ Just so.

_Soc._ Which of us, then, was the speaker?

_Al._ The inference is, Socrates, that I was the speaker.

_Soc._ Did not some one say that Alcibiades, the fair son of

Cleinias, not understanding about just and unjust, but thinking

that he did understand, was going to the assembly to

advise the Athenians about what he did not know? Was

not that said?

_Al._ Very true.

[Sidenote: How can you teach what you do not know?]

_Soc._ Then, Alcibiades, the result may be expressed in the

language of Euripides. I think that you have heard all this

‘from yourself, and not from me’; nor did I say this, which

you erroneously attribute to me, but you yourself, and what

you said was very true. For indeed, my dear fellow, the

design which you meditate of teaching what you do not

know, and have not taken any pains to learn, is downright

insanity.

[Sidenote: _who is the real speaker?_]

[Sidenote: But the expedient, not the just, is the subject about which

men commonly debate.]

_Al._ But, Socrates, I think that the Athenians and the rest

of the Hellenes do not often advise as to the more just or

unjust; for they see no difficulty in them, and therefore they

leave them, and consider which course of action will be

most expedient; for there is a difference between justice

and expediency. Many persons have done great wrong and

profited by their injustice; others have done rightly and

come to no good.

_Soc._ Well, but granting that the just and the expedient are

ever so much opposed, you surely do not imagine that you

know what is expedient for mankind, or why a thing is

expedient?

[Sidenote: Alcibiades insists that he will not have the old argument over

again.]

_Al._ Why not, Socrates?—But I am not going to be

asked again from whom I learned, or when I made the

discovery.

_Soc._ What a way you have! When you make a mistake

which might be refuted by a previous argument, you insist on

having a new and different refutation; the old argument is a

worn-out garment which you will no longer put on, but some

one must produce another which is clean and new. Now I 114

shall disregard this move of yours, and shall ask over

again,—Where did you learn and how do you know the nature of

the expedient, and who is your teacher? All this I comprehend

in a single question, and now you will manifestly be

in the old difficulty, and will not be able to show that you

know the expedient, either because you learned or because

you discovered it yourself. But, as I perceive that you are

dainty, and dislike the taste of a stale argument, I will

enquire no further into your knowledge of what is expedient

or what is not expedient for the Athenian people, and simply

request you to say why you do not explain whether justice

and expediency are the same or different? And if you like

you may examine me as I have examined you, or, if you

would rather, you may carry on the discussion by yourself.

_Al._ But I am not certain, Socrates, whether I shall be

able to discuss the matter with you.

_Soc._ Then imagine, my dear fellow, that I am the demus

and the ecclesia; for in the ecclesia, too, you will have to

persuade men individually.

[Sidenote: _Is the just the same_]

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And is not the same person able to persuade one individual

singly and many individuals of the things which he

knows? The grammarian, for example, can persuade one

and he can persuade many about letters.

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ And about number, will not the same person persuade

one and persuade many?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And this will be he who knows number, or the arithmetician?

_Al._ Quite true.

[Sidenote: He who can persuade many can persuade one. Alcibiades should

therefore be able to persuade Socrates.]

_Soc._ And cannot you persuade one man about that of which

you can persuade many?

_Al._ I suppose so.

_Soc._ And that of which you can persuade either is clearly

what you know?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And the only difference between one who argues as

we are doing, and the orator who is addressing an assembly,

is that the one seeks to persuade a number, and the other an

individual, of the same things.

_Al._ I suppose so.

_Soc._ Well, then, since the same person who can persuade

a multitude can persuade individuals, try conclusions upon

me, and prove to me that the just is not always expedient.

_Al._ You take liberties, Socrates.

_Soc._ I shall take the liberty of proving to you the opposite

of that which you will not prove to me.

_Al._ Proceed.

_Soc._ Answer my questions—that is all.

_Al._ Nay, I should like you to be the speaker.

_Soc._ What, do you not wish to be persuaded?

_Al._ Certainly I do.

_Soc._ And can you be persuaded better than out of your

own mouth?

_Al._ I think not.

_Soc._ Then you shall answer; and if you do not hear the

words, that the just is the expedient, coming from your own

lips, never believe another man again.

[Sidenote: _as the expedient or not?_]

_Al._ I won’t; but answer I will, for I do not see how I can

come to any harm.

[Sidenote: A man may do what is expedient and not just, but he cannot do

what is honourable and not just and good.]

_Soc._ A true prophecy! Let me begin then by enquiring of 115

you whether you allow that the just is sometimes expedient

and sometimes not?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And sometimes honourable and sometimes not?

_Al._ What do you mean?

_Soc._ I am asking if you ever knew any one who did what

was dishonourable and yet just?

_Al._ Never.

_Soc._ All just things are honourable?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And are honourable things sometimes good and sometimes

not good, or are they always good?

_Al._ I rather think, Socrates, that some honourable things

are evil.

_Soc._ And are some dishonourable things good?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ You mean in such a case as the following:—In time

of war, men have been wounded or have died in rescuing a

companion or kinsman, when others who have neglected the

duty of rescuing them have escaped in safety?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ And to rescue another under such circumstances is

honourable, in respect of the attempt to save those whom we

ought to save; and this is courage?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ But evil in respect of death and wounds?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And the courage which is shown in the rescue is one

thing, and the death another?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ Then the rescue of one’s friends is honourable in one

point of view, but evil in another?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ And if honourable, then also good: Will you consider

now whether I may not be right, for you were acknowledging

that the courage which is shown in the rescue is honourable?

Now is this courage good or evil? Look at the matter

thus: which would you rather choose, good or evil?

[Sidenote: _The comparative eligibility of goods._]

_Al._ Good.

_Soc._ And the greatest goods you would be most ready to

choose, and would least like to be deprived of them?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ What would you say of courage? At what price

would you be willing to be deprived of courage?

_Al._ I would rather die than be a coward.

_Soc._ Then you think that cowardice is the worst of evils?

_Al._ I do.

_Soc._ As bad as death, I suppose?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And life and courage are the extreme opposites of

death and cowardice?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And they are what you would most desire to have,

and their opposites you would least desire?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Is this because you think life and courage the best,

and death and cowardice the worst?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And you would term the rescue of a friend in battle

honourable, in as much as courage does a good work?

_Al._ I should.

[Sidenote: But good may contain an element of evil. Good and evil are to

be judged of by their consequences.]

_Soc._ But evil because of the death which ensues?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Might we not describe their different effects as follows:—You

may call either of them evil in respect of the evil

which is the result, and good in respect of the good which is

the result of either of them? 116

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And they are honourable in so far as they are good,

and dishonourable in so far as they are evil?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ Then when you say that the rescue of a friend in

battle is honourable and yet evil, that is equivalent to saying

that the rescue is good and yet evil?

_Al._ I believe that you are right, Socrates.

[Sidenote: _The honourable, the good, the expedient, all one._]

_Soc._ Nothing honourable, regarded as honourable, is evil;

nor anything base, regarded as base, good.

_Al._ Clearly not.

[Sidenote: The honourable is identified with the good, and the good is

the expedient, and therefore the just which is the honourable is also the

expedient. All this has been proved by Alcibiades himself.]

_Soc._ Look at the matter yet once more in a further light:

he who acts honourably acts well?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And he who acts well is happy?

_Al._ Of course.

_Soc._ And the happy are those who obtain good?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ And they obtain good by acting well and honourably?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then acting well is a good?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And happiness is a good?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then the good and the honourable are again identified.

_Al._ Manifestly.

_Soc._ Then, if the argument holds, what we find to be

honourable we shall also find to be good?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And is the good expedient or not?

_Al._ Expedient.

_Soc._ Do you remember our admissions about the just?

_Al._ Yes; if I am not mistaken, we said that those who

acted justly must also act honourably.

_Soc._ And the honourable is the good?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And the good is expedient?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then, Alcibiades, the just is expedient?

_Al._ I should infer so.

_Soc._ And all this I prove out of your own mouth, for I ask

and you answer?

_Al._ I must acknowledge it to be true.

_Soc._ And having acknowledged that the just is the same

as the expedient, are you not (let me ask) prepared to

ridicule any one who, pretending to understand the principles

of justice and injustice, gets up to advise the noble

Athenians or the ignoble Peparethians, that the just may be

the evil?

[Sidenote: _The conceit of knowledge_]

[Sidenote: Yet he still finds himself in a perplexity, and this is because

he thinks that he knows, but if he knew that he were ignorant he would be

in no perplexity.]

_Al._ I solemnly declare, Socrates, that I do not know what I

am saying. Verily, I am in a strange state, for when you

put questions to me I am of different minds in successive

instants.

_Soc._ And are you not aware of the nature of this perplexity,

my friend?

_Al._ Indeed I am not.

_Soc._ Do you suppose that if some one were to ask you

whether you have two eyes or three, or two hands or four,

or anything of that sort, you would then be of different

minds in successive instants?

_Al._ I begin to distrust myself, but still I do not suppose 117

that I should.

_Soc._ You would feel no doubt; and for this reason—because

you would know?

_Al._ I suppose so.

_Soc._ And the reason why you involuntarily contradict

yourself is clearly that you are ignorant?

_Al._ Very likely.

_Soc._ And if you are perplexed in answering about just

and unjust, honourable and dishonourable, good and evil,

expedient and inexpedient, the reason is that you are

ignorant of them, and therefore in perplexity. Is not that

clear?

_Al._ I agree.

_Soc._ But is this always the case, and is a man necessarily

perplexed about that of which he has no knowledge?

_Al._ Certainly he is.

_Soc._ And do you know how to ascend into heaven?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ And in this case, too, is your judgment perplexed?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ Do you see the reason why, or shall I tell you?

_Al._ Tell me.

_Soc._ The reason is, that you not only do not know, my

friend, but you do not think that you know.

_Al._ There again; what do you mean?

[Sidenote: _and the consciousness of ignorance._]

_Soc._ Ask yourself; are you in any perplexity about things

of which you are ignorant? You know, for example, that

you know nothing about the preparation of food.

_Al._ Very true.

_Soc._ And do you think and perplex yourself about the

preparation of food: or do you leave that to some one who

understands the art?

_Al._ The latter.

_Soc._ Or if you were on a voyage, would you bewilder

yourself by considering whether the rudder is to be drawn

inwards or outwards, or do you leave that to the pilot, and

do nothing?

_Al._ It would be the concern of the pilot.

_Soc._ Then you are not perplexed about what you do not

know, if you know that you do not know it?

_Al._ I imagine not.

[Sidenote: The people who make mistakes are neither those who know, nor

those who do not know, but those who think that they know and do not

know.]

_Soc._ Do you not see, then, that mistakes in life and

practice are likewise to be attributed to the ignorance which

has conceit of knowledge?

_Al._ Once more, what do you mean?

_Soc._ I suppose that we begin to act when we think that we

know what we are doing?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ But when people think that they do not know, they

entrust their business to others?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And so there is a class of ignorant persons who do

not make mistakes in life, because they trust others about

things of which they are ignorant?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ Who, then, are the persons who make mistakes?

They cannot, of course, be those who know?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ But if neither those who know, nor those who know

that they do not know, make mistakes, there remain those 118

only who do not know and think that they know.

_Al._ Yes, only those.

_Soc._ Then this is ignorance of the disgraceful sort which is

mischievous?

_Al._ Yes.

[Sidenote: _Pericles and the philosophers._]

_Soc._ And most mischievous and most disgraceful when

having to do with the greatest matters?

_Al._ By far.

_Soc._ And can there be any matters greater than the just,

the honourable, the good, and the expedient?

_Al._ There cannot be.

_Soc._ And these, as you were saying, are what perplex you?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ But if you are perplexed, then, as the previous argument

has shown, you are not only ignorant of the greatest

matters, but being ignorant you fancy that you know

them?

_Al._ I fear that you are right.

[Sidenote: And you, like other statesmen, rush into politics without

being trained. Pericles, alone of them all, associated with the

philosophers.]

_Soc._ And now see what has happened to you, Alcibiades!

I hardly like to speak of your evil case, but as we are alone

I will: My good friend, you are wedded to ignorance of the

most disgraceful kind, and of this you are convicted, not by

me, but out of your own mouth and by your own argument;

wherefore also you rush into politics before you are educated.

Neither is your case to be deemed singular. For I might say

the same of almost all our statesmen, with the exception,

perhaps, of your guardian, Pericles.

_Al._ Yes, Socrates; and Pericles is said not to have got

his wisdom by the light of nature, but to have associated

with several of the philosophers; with Pythocleides, for

example, and with Anaxagoras, and now in advanced life

with Damon, in the hope of gaining wisdom.

_Soc._ Very good; but did you ever know a man wise in

anything who was unable to impart his particular wisdom?

For example, he who taught you letters was not only wise,

but he made you and any others whom he liked wise.

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And you, whom he taught, can do the same?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ And in like manner the harper and gymnastic-master?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ When a person is enabled to impart knowledge to

another, he thereby gives an excellent proof of his own

understanding of any matter.

_Al._ I agree.

[Sidenote: _The higher standard._]

_Soc._ Well, and did Pericles make any one wise; did he

begin by making his sons wise?

_Al._ But, Socrates, if the two sons of Pericles were simpletons,

what has that to do with the matter?

[Sidenote: And even he could not teach his own sons, or your brother

Cleinias, nor did any one ever grow wiser in his society.]

_Soc._ Well, but did he make your brother, Cleinias, wise?

_Al._ Cleinias is a madman; there is no use in talking of

him.

_Soc._ But if Cleinias is a madman and the two sons of

Pericles were simpletons, what reason can be given why he

neglects you, and lets you be as you are?

_Al._ I believe that I am to blame for not listening to him.

_Soc._ But did you ever hear of any other Athenian or

foreigner, bond or free, who was deemed to have grown

wiser in the society of Pericles,—as I might cite Pythodorus, 119

the son of Isolochus, and Callias, the son of Calliades, who

have grown wiser in the society of Zeno, for which privilege

they have each of them paid him the sum of a hundred

minae[58] to the increase of their wisdom and fame.

_Al._ I certainly never did hear of any one.

_Soc._ Well, and in reference to your own case, do you

mean to remain as you are, or will you take some pains

about yourself?

[Sidenote: But if other statesmen are uneducated, what need has

Alcibiades of education?]

_Al._ With your aid, Socrates, I will. And indeed, when I

hear you speak, the truth of what you are saying strikes

home to me, and I agree with you, for our statesmen, all but

a few, do appear to be quite uneducated.

_Soc._ What is the inference?

_Al._ Why, that if they were educated they would be trained

athletes, and he who means to rival them ought to have

knowledge and experience when he attacks them; but now,

as they have become politicians without any special training,

why should I have the trouble of learning and practising?

For I know well that by the light of nature I shall get the

better of them.

[Sidenote: The lover is pained at hearing from the lips of Alcibiades]

_Soc._ My dear friend, what a sentiment! And how unworthy

of your noble form and your high estate!

_Al._ What do you mean, Socrates; why do you say so?

_Soc._ I am grieved when I think of our mutual love.

_Al._ At what?

[Sidenote: _The Spartan kings._]

[Sidenote: so unworthy a sentiment. He should have a higher ambition than

this.]

_Soc._ At your fancying that the contest on which you are

entering is with people here.

_Al._ Why, what others are there?

_Soc._ Is that a question which a magnanimous soul should

ask?

_Al._ Do you mean to say that the contest is not with these?

_Soc._ And suppose that you were going to steer a ship into

action, would you only aim at being the best pilot on board?

Would you not, while acknowledging that you must possess

this degree of excellence, rather look to your antagonists,

and not, as you are now doing, to your fellow combatants?

You ought to be so far above these latter, that they will not

even dare to be your rivals; and, being regarded by you as

inferiors, will do battle for you against the enemy; this is

the kind of superiority which you must establish over them, if

you mean to accomplish any noble action really worthy of

yourself and of the state.

_Al._ That would certainly be my aim.

_Soc._ Verily, then, you have good reason to be satisfied, if

you are better than the soldiers; and you need not, when

you are their superior and have your thoughts and actions

fixed upon them, look away to the generals of the enemy.

_Al._ Of whom are you speaking, Socrates?

[Sidenote: His rivals should be the Spartan and Persian kings, not any

chance persons.]

_Soc._ Why, you surely know that our city goes to war 120

now and then with the Lacedaemonians and with the great

king?

_Al._ True enough.

_Soc._ And if you meant to be the ruler of this city, would

you not be right in considering that the Lacedaemonian and

Persian king were your true rivals?

_Al._ I believe that you are right.

[Sidenote: _The greatness of the royal family of Persia._]

_Soc._ Oh no, my friend, I am quite wrong, and I think that

you ought rather to turn your attention to Midias the quail-breeder

and others like him, who manage our politics; in

whom, as the women would remark, you may still see the

slaves’ cut of hair, cropping out in their minds as well as

on their pates; and they come with their barbarous lingo to

flatter us and not to rule us. To these, I say, you should

look, and then you need not trouble yourself about your own

fitness to contend in such a noble arena: there is no reason

why you should either learn what has to be learned, or

practise what has to be practised, and only when thoroughly

prepared enter on a political career.

_Al._ There, I think, Socrates, that you are right; I do not

suppose, however, that the Spartan generals or the great

king are really different from anybody else.

_Soc._ But, my dear friend, do consider what you are saying.

_Al._ What am I to consider?

_Soc._ In the first place, will you be more likely to take care

of yourself, if you are in a wholesome fear and dread of them,

or if you are not?

_Al._ Clearly, if I have such a fear of them.

_Soc._ And do you think that you will sustain any injury if

you take care of yourself?

_Al._ No, I shall be greatly benefited.

_Soc._ And this is one very important respect in which that

notion of yours is bad.

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ In the next place, consider that what you say is

probably false.

_Al._ How so?

_Soc._ Let me ask you whether better natures are likely to

be found in noble races or not in noble races?

_Al._ Clearly in noble races.

_Soc._ Are not those who are well born and well bred most

likely to be perfect in virtue?

_Al._ Certainly.

[Sidenote: We too have our pride of birth, but how inferior are we to

those who are descended from Zeus through a line of kings!]

_Soc._ Then let us compare our antecedents with those of

the Lacedaemonian and Persian kings; are they inferior to

us in descent? Have we not heard that the former are

sprung from Heracles, and the latter from Achaemenes, and

that the race of Heracles and the race of Achaemenes go

back to Perseus, son of Zeus?

_Al._ Why, so does mine go back to Eurysaces, and he to 121

Zeus!

[Sidenote: _The education of the Persian princes._]

[Sidenote: The wealth and dignity of the Spartan kings is great, but it

is as nothing compared with that of the Persians.]

_Soc._ And mine, noble Alcibiades, to Daedalus, and he

to Hephaestus, son of Zeus. But, for all that, we are far

inferior to them. For they are descended ‘from Zeus,’

through a line of kings—either kings of Argos and Lacedaemon,

or kings of Persia, a country which the descendants

of Achaemenes have always possessed, besides being at

various times sovereigns of Asia, as they now are; whereas,

we and our fathers were but private persons. How ridiculous

would you be thought if you were to make a display of your

ancestors and of Salamis the island of Eurysaces, or of

Aegina, the habitation of the still more ancient Aeacus,

before Artaxerxes, son of Xerxes. You should consider

how inferior we are to them both in the derivation of our

birth and in other particulars. Did you never observe how

great is the property of the Spartan kings? And their

wives are under the guardianship of the Ephori, who are

public officers and watch over them, in order to preserve as

far as possible the purity of the Heracleid blood. Still

greater is the difference among the Persians; for no one

entertains a suspicion that the father of a prince of Persia

can be any one but the king. Such is the awe which invests

the person of the queen, that any other guard is needless.

And when the heir of the kingdom is born, all the subjects

of the king feast; and the day of his birth is for ever afterwards

kept as a holiday and time of sacrifice by all Asia;

whereas, when you and I were born, Alcibiades, as the

comic poet says, the neighbours hardly knew of the important

event. After the birth of the royal child, he is

tended, not by a good-for-nothing woman-nurse, but by the

best of the royal eunuchs, who are charged with the care of

him, and especially with the fashioning and right formation

of his limbs, in order that he may be as shapely as possible;

which being their calling, they are held in great honour.

[Sidenote: The birth of the Persian princes is a world-famous event, and

the utmost pains is taken with their education, which is entrusted to

great and noble persons.]

[Sidenote: _The wealth of the Spartans._]

[Sidenote: When Alcibiades was born nobody knew or cared, and his

education was handed over to a worn-out slave of his guardian’s.]

[Sidenote: _The great inferiority of Alcibiades._]

[Sidenote: The country called the ‘queen’s girdle,’ the ‘queen’s veil,’

and the like.]

[Sidenote: The queen of Persia or of Sparta, if they heard that a youth

of twenty, without resources and without education, was going to attack

their son or husband, would deem him mad.]

And when the young prince is seven years old he is put

upon a horse and taken to the riding-masters, and begins to

go out hunting. And at fourteen years of age he is handed

over to the royal schoolmasters, as they are termed: these

are four chosen men, reputed to be the best among the

Persians of a certain age; and one of them is the wisest,

another the justest, a third the most temperate, and a fourth

the most valiant. The first instructs him in the magianism

of Zoroaster, the son of Oromasus, which is the worship of 122

the Gods, and teaches him also the duties of his royal office;

the second, who is the justest, teaches him always to speak

the truth; the third, or most temperate, forbids him to allow

any pleasure to be lord over him, that he may be accustomed

to be a freeman and king indeed,—lord of himself first, and

not a slave; the most valiant trains him to be bold and

fearless, telling him that if he fears he is to deem himself a

slave; whereas Pericles gave you, Alcibiades, for a tutor

Zopyrus the Thracian, a slave of his who was past all other

work. I might enlarge on the nurture and education of

your rivals, but that would be tedious; and what I have said

is a sufficient sample of what remains to be said. I have

only to remark, by way of contrast, that no one cares about

your birth or nurture or education, or, I may say, about that

of any other Athenian, unless he has a lover who looks after

him. And if you cast an eye on the wealth, the luxury, the

garments with their flowing trains, the anointings with

myrrh, the multitudes of attendants, and all the other

bravery of the Persians, you will be ashamed when you

discern your own inferiority; or if you look at the temperance

and orderliness and ease and grace and magnanimity

and courage and endurance and love of toil and desire of

glory and ambition of the Lacedaemonians—in all these

respects you will see that you are but a child in comparison

of them. Even in the matter of wealth, if you value yourself

upon that, I must reveal to you how you stand; for if you

form an estimate of the wealth of the Lacedaemonians, you

will see that our possessions fall far short of theirs. For no

one here can compete with them either in the extent and

fertility of their own and the Messenian territory, or in the

number of their slaves, and especially of the Helots, or of

their horses, or of the animals which feed on the Messenian

pastures. But I have said enough of this: and as to gold

and silver, there is more of them in Lacedaemon than in all

the rest of Hellas, for during many generations gold has

been always flowing in to them from the whole Hellenic

world, and often from the barbarian also, and never going

out, as in the fable of Aesop the fox, said to the lion, ‘The 123

prints of the feet of those going in are distinct enough;’ but

who ever saw the trace of money going out of Lacedaemon?

and therefore you may safely infer that the inhabitants are

the richest of the Hellenes in gold and silver, and that their

kings are the richest of them, for they have a larger share of

these things, and they have also a tribute paid to them which

is very considerable. Yet the Spartan wealth, though great

in comparison of the wealth of the other Hellenes, is as

nothing in comparison of that of the Persians and their

kings. Why, I have been informed by a credible person

who went up to the king [at Susa], that he passed through a

large tract of excellent land, extending for nearly a day’s

journey, which the people of the country called the queen’s

girdle, and another, which they called her veil; and several

other fair and fertile districts, which were reserved for the

adornment of the queen, and are named after her several

habiliments. Now, I cannot help thinking to myself, What

if some one were to go to Amestris, the wife of Xerxes and

mother of Artaxerxes, and say to her, There is a certain

Dinomachè, whose whole wardrobe is not worth fifty minae—and

that will be more than the value—and she has a son

who is possessed of a three-hundred acre patch at Erchiae,

and he has a mind to go to war with your son—would she

not wonder to what this Alcibiades trusts for success in the

conflict? ‘He must rely,’ she would say to herself, ‘upon

his training and wisdom—these are the things which

Hellenes value.’ And if she heard that this Alcibiades who

is making the attempt is not as yet twenty years old, and is

wholly uneducated, and when his lover tells him that he

ought to get education and training first, and then go and

fight the king, he refuses, and says that he is well enough as

he is, would she not be amazed, and ask, ‘On what, then,

does the youth rely?’ And if we replied: He relies on his

beauty, and stature, and birth, and mental endowments, she

would think that we were mad, Alcibiades, when she compared

the advantages which you possess with those of her

own people. And I believe that even Lampido, the daughter 124

of Leotychides, the wife of Archidamus and mother of Agis,

all of whom were kings, would have the same feeling; if, in

your present uneducated state, you were to turn your thoughts

against her son, she too would be equally astonished. But

how disgraceful, that we should not have as high a notion of

what is required in us as our enemies’ wives and mothers

have of the qualities which are required in their assailants!

O my friend, be persuaded by me, and hear the Delphian

inscription, ‘Know thyself’—not the men whom you think,

but these kings are our rivals, and we can only overcome

them by pains and skill. And if you fail in the required

qualities, you will fail also in becoming renowned among

Hellenes and Barbarians, which you seem to desire more

than any other man ever desired anything.

[Sidenote: _The necessity of education._]

_Al._ I entirely believe you; but what are the sort of pains

which are required, Socrates,—can you tell me?

[Sidenote: I too need education; and God, who is my guardian, inspires me

with the belief that I shall bring you to honour.]

_Soc._ Yes, I can; but we must take counsel together concerning

the manner in which both of us may be most

improved. For what I am telling you of the necessity of

education applies to myself as well as to you; and there

is only one point in which I have an advantage over you.

_Al._ What is that?

_Soc._ I have a guardian who is better and wiser than your

guardian, Pericles.

_Al._ Who is he, Socrates?

_Soc._ God, Alcibiades, who up to this day has not allowed

me to converse with you; and he inspires in me the faith

that I am especially designed to bring you to honour.

_Al._ You are jesting, Socrates.

_Soc._ Perhaps; at any rate, I am right in saying that all

men greatly need pains and care, and you and I above all

men.

_Al._ You are not far wrong about me.

_Soc._ And certainly not about myself.

_Al._ But what can we do?

_Soc._ There must be no hesitation or cowardice, my

friend.

_Al._ That would not become us, Socrates.

[Sidenote: We must take counsel together, (not about equestrian or naval

affairs), but]

_Soc._ No, indeed, and we ought to take counsel together:

for do we not wish to be as good as possible?

_Al._ We do.

_Soc._ In what sort of virtue?

_Al._ Plainly, in the virtue of good men.

_Soc._ Who are good in what?

_Al._ Those, clearly, who are good in the management of

affairs.

_Soc._ What sort of affairs? Equestrian affairs?

_Al._ Certainly not.

[Sidenote: _Goodness and wisdom identified._]

_Soc._ You mean that about them we should have recourse

to horsemen?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Well; naval affairs?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ You mean that we should have recourse to sailors

about them?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then what affairs? And who do them?

[Sidenote: about the things which occupy the minds of wise men.]

_Al._ The affairs which occupy Athenian gentlemen. 125

_Soc._ And when you speak of gentlemen, do you mean the

wise or the unwise?

_Al._ The wise.

_Soc._ And a man is good in respect of that in which he is

wise?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And evil in respect of that in which he is unwise?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ The shoemaker, for example, is wise in respect of the

making of shoes?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then he is good in that?

_Al._ He is.

_Soc._ But in respect of the making of garments he is unwise?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then in that he is bad?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then upon this view of the matter the same man is

good and also bad?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ But would you say that the good are the same as the

bad?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ Then whom do you call the good?

[Sidenote: And the wise are those who take counsel for the better order

and]

_Al._ I mean by the good those who are able to rule in the

city.

_Soc._ Not, surely, over horses?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ But over men?

[Sidenote: improvement of the city.]

[Sidenote: _The analogy of other employments._]

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ When they are sick?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ Or on a voyage?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ Or reaping the harvest?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ When they are doing something or nothing?

_Al._ When they are doing something, I should say.

_Soc._ I wish that you would explain to me what this something

is.

_Al._ When they are having dealings with one another, and

using one another’s services, as we citizens do in our daily

life.

[Sidenote: Illustrations.]

_Soc._ Those of whom you speak are ruling over men who

are using the services of other men?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Are they ruling over the signal-men who give the

time to the rowers?

_Al._ No; they are not.

_Soc._ That would be the office of the pilot?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ But, perhaps you mean that they rule over flute-players

who lead the singers and use the services of the

dancers?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ That would be the business of the teacher of the

chorus?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then what is the meaning of being able to rule over

men who use other men?

_Al._ I mean that they rule over men who have common

rights of citizenship, and dealings with one another.

_Soc._ And what sort of an art is this? Suppose that I ask

you again, as I did just now, What art makes men know

how to rule over their fellow-sailors,—how would you

answer?

_Al._ The art of the pilot.

_Soc._ And, if I may recur to another old instance, what art

enables them to rule over their fellow-singers?

[Sidenote: _How is a state improved?_]

_Al._ The art of the teacher of the chorus, which you were

just now mentioning.

_Soc._ And what do you call the art of fellow-citizens?

_Al._ I should say, good counsel, Socrates.

_Soc._ And is the art of the pilot evil counsel?

_Al._ No.

_Soc._ But good counsel?

_Al._ Yes, that is what I should say,—good counsel, of which 126

the aim is the preservation of the voyagers.

_Soc._ True. And what is the aim of that other good counsel

of which you speak?

_Al._ The aim is the better order and preservation of the city.

_Soc._ And what is that of which the absence or presence

improves and preserves the order of the city? Suppose you

were to ask me, what is that of which the presence or absence

improves or preserves the order of the body? I should

reply, the presence of health and the absence of disease.

You would say the same?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And if you were to ask me the same question about

the eyes, I should reply in the same way, ‘the presence of

sight and the absence of blindness;’ or about the ears, I

should reply, that they were improved and were in better

case, when deafness was absent, and hearing was present in

them.

_Al._ True.

[Sidenote: And this improvement is given by friendship and agreement,

such as exists between the members of a family, however they may differ

in their qualities and accomplishments.]

_Soc._ And what would you say of a state? What is that by

the presence or absence of which the state is improved and

better managed and ordered?

_Al._ I should say, Socrates:—the presence of friendship and

the absence of hatred and division.

_Soc._ And do you mean by friendship agreement or disagreement?

_Al._ Agreement.

_Soc._ What art makes cities agree about numbers?

_Al._ Arithmetic.

_Soc._ And private individuals?

_Al._ The same.

_Soc._ And what art makes each individual agree with

himself?

[Sidenote: _The art of measure._]

_Al._ The same.

_Soc._ And what art makes each of us agree with himself

about the comparative length of the span and of the cubit?

Does not the art of measure?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Individuals are agreed with one another about this;

and states, equally?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And the same holds of the balance?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ But what is the other agreement of which you speak,

and about what? what art can give that agreement? And

does that which gives it to the state give it also to the individual,

so as to make him consistent with himself and with

another?

_Al._ I should suppose so.

_Soc._ But what is the nature of the agreement?—answer,

and faint not.

_Al._ I mean to say that there should be such friendship and

agreement as exists between an affectionate father and mother

and their son, or between brothers, or between husband and

wife.

_Soc._ But can a man, Alcibiades, agree with a woman about

the spinning of wool, which she understands and he does not?

_Al._ No, truly.

_Soc._ Nor has he any need, for spinning is a female

accomplishment.

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And would a woman agree with a man about the 127

science of arms, which she has never learned?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ I suppose that the use of arms would be regarded by

you as a male accomplishment?

_Al._ It would.

_Soc._ Then, upon your view, women and men have two sorts

of knowledge?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ Then in their knowledge there is no agreement of

women and men?

_Al._ There is not.

[Sidenote: _Apparent antagonism of friendship and justice._]

_Soc._ Nor can there be friendship, if friendship is agreement?

_Al._ Plainly not.

_Soc._ Then women are not loved by men when they do their

own work?

_Al._ I suppose not.

_Soc._ Nor men by women when they do their own work?

_Al._ No.

[Sidenote: If everybody is doing his own business, how can this promote

friendship? And yet when individuals are doing each his own work, they

are doing what is just.]

_Soc._ Nor are states well administered, when individuals do

their own work?

_Al._ I should rather think, Socrates, that the reverse is the

truth[59].

_Soc._ What! do you mean to say that states are well administered

when friendship is absent, the presence of which,

as we were saying, alone secures their good order?

_Al._ But I should say that there is friendship among them,

for this very reason, that the two parties respectively do their

own work.

_Soc._ That was not what you were saying before; and what

do you mean now by affirming that friendship exists when

there is no agreement? How can there be agreement about

matters which the one party knows, and of which the other is

in ignorance?

_Al._ Impossible.

_Soc._ And when individuals are doing their own work, are

they doing what is just or unjust?

_Al._ What is just, certainly.

_Soc._ And when individuals do what is just in the state, is

there no friendship among them?

_Al._ I suppose that there must be, Socrates.

_Soc._ Then what do you mean by this friendship or agreement

about which we must be wise and discreet in order that

we may be good men? I cannot make out where it exists or

among whom; according to you, the same persons may sometimes

have it, and sometimes not.

_Al._ But, indeed, Socrates, I do not know what I am saying;

and I have long been, unconsciously to myself, in a most

disgraceful state.

_Soc._ Nevertheless, cheer up; at fifty, if you had discovered

your deficiency, you would have been too old, and the time

for taking care of yourself would have passed away, but yours

is just the age at which the discovery should be made.

[Sidenote: _Alcibiades is puzzled._]

_Al._ And what should he do, Socrates, who would make the

discovery?

[Sidenote: The way to clear up difficulties is to answer questions.

Alcibiades is willing to have recourse to this method of improvement.]

_Soc._ Answer questions, Alcibiades; and that is a process

which, by the grace of God, if I may put any faith in my

oracle, will be very improving to both of us.

_Al._ If I can be improved by answering, I will answer.

_Soc._ And first of all, that we may not peradventure be 128

deceived by appearances, fancying, perhaps, that we are

taking care of ourselves when we are not, what is the meaning

of a man taking care of himself? and when does he take

care? Does he take care of himself when he takes care of

what belongs to him?

_Al._ I should think so.

_Soc._ When does a man take care of his feet? Does he

not take care of them when he takes care of that which

belongs to his feet?

_Al._ I do not understand.

_Soc._ Let me take the hand as an illustration; does not a

ring belong to the finger, and to the finger only?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And the shoe in like manner to the foot?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And when we take care of our shoes, do we not take

care of our feet?

_Al._ I do not comprehend, Socrates.

_Soc._ But you would admit, Alcibiades, that to take proper

care of a thing is a correct expression?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And taking proper care means improving?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And what is the art which improves our shoes?

_Al._ Shoemaking.

_Soc._ Then by shoemaking we take care of our shoes?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And do we by shoemaking take care of our feet, or by

some other art which improves the feet?

_Al._ By some other art.

[Sidenote: _He is learning by examples._]

_Soc._ And the same art improves the feet which improves

the rest of the body?

_Al._ Very true.

_Soc._ Which is gymnastic?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ Then by gymnastic we take care of our feet, and by

shoemaking of that which belongs to our feet?

_Al._ Very true.

_Soc._ And by gymnastic we take care of our hands, and by

the art of graving rings of that which belongs to our hands?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And by gymnastic we take care of the body, and by

the art of weaving and the other arts we take care of the

things of the body?

_Al._ Clearly.

[Sidenote: It has been shown by examples that a man does not take care of

himself, when he only takes care of what belongs to him.]

_Soc._ Then the art which takes care of each thing is different

from that which takes care of the belongings of each

thing?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ Then in taking care of what belongs to you, you do

not take care of yourself?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ For the art which takes care of our belongings appears

not to be the same as that which takes care of ourselves?

_Al._ Clearly not.

_Soc._ And now let me ask you what is the art with which we

take care of ourselves?

_Al._ I cannot say.

_Soc._ At any rate, thus much has been admitted, that the art

is not one which makes any of our possessions, but which

makes ourselves better?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ But should we ever have known what art makes a shoe

better, if we did not know a shoe?

_Al._ Impossible.

_Soc._ Nor should we know what art makes a ring better, if

we did not know a ring?

_Al._ That is true.

[Sidenote: A man must know himself before he can improve himself or know

what belongs to him.]

_Soc._ And can we ever know what art makes a man better, 129

if we do not know what we are ourselves?

[Sidenote: _The knowledge of self._]

_Al._ Impossible.

_Soc._ And is self-knowledge such an easy thing, and was he

to be lightly esteemed who inscribed the text on the temple at

Delphi? Or is self-knowledge a difficult thing, which few

are able to attain?

_Al._ At times I fancy, Socrates, that anybody can know

himself; at other times the task appears to be very difficult.

_Soc._ But whether easy or difficult, Alcibiades, still there is

no other way; knowing what we are, we shall know how to

take care of ourselves, and if we are ignorant we shall not

know.

_Al._ That is true.

_Soc._ Well, then, let us see in what way the self-existent

can be discovered by us; that will give us a chance of discovering

our own existence, which otherwise we can never

know.

_Al._ You say truly.

_Soc._ Come, now, I beseech you, tell me with whom you

are conversing?—with whom but with me?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ As I am, with you?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ That is to say, I, Socrates, am talking?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And Alcibiades is my hearer?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And I in talking use words?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And talking and using words have, I suppose, the

same meaning?

_Al._ To be sure.

_Soc._ And the user is not the same as the thing which he

uses?

_Al._ What do you mean?

_Soc._ I will explain; the shoemaker, for example, uses a

square tool, and a circular tool, and other tools for cutting?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ But the tool is not the same as the cutter and user of

the tool?

_Al._ Of course not.

[Sidenote: _More analogies and examples._]

_Soc._ And in the same way the instrument of the harper is

to be distinguished from the harper himself?

_Al._ It is.

_Soc._ Now the question which I asked was whether you

conceive the user to be always different from that which he

uses?

_Al._ I do.

_Soc._ Then what shall we say of the shoemaker? Does he

cut with his tools only or with his hands?

_Al._ With his hands as well.

_Soc._ He uses his hands too?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And does he use his eyes in cutting leather?

_Al._ He does.

[Sidenote: He is distinct from what he uses; and therefore distinct from

his own body.]

_Soc._ And we admit that the user is not the same with the

things which he uses?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then the shoemaker and the harper are to be distinguished

from the hands and feet which they use?

_Al._ Clearly.

_Soc._ And does not a man use the whole body?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ And that which uses is different from that which is

used?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ Then a man is not the same as his own body?

_Al._ That is the inference.

_Soc._ What is he, then?

_Al._ I cannot say.

_Soc._ Nay, you can say that he is the user of the body.

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And the user of the body is the soul? 130

_Al._ Yes, the soul.

_Soc._ And the soul rules?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Let me make an assertion which will, I think, be universally

admitted.

_Al._ What is it?

[Sidenote: But he must be one of three things:—Soul, body, or the union of

the two. What is the ruling principle in him? Clearly the soul.]

_Soc._ That man is one of three things.

_Al._ What are they?

[Sidenote: _The true self or being of a man._]

_Soc._ Soul, body, or both together forming a whole.

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ But did we not say that the actual ruling principle of

the body is man?

_Al._ Yes, we did.

_Soc._ And does the body rule over itself?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ It is subject, as we were saying?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ Then that is not the principle which we are seeking?

_Al._ It would seem not.

_Soc._ But may we say that the union of the two rules over

the body, and consequently that this is man?

_Al._ Very likely.

_Soc._ The most unlikely of all things; for if one of the

members is subject, the two united cannot possibly rule.

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ But since neither the body, nor the union of the two,

is man, either man has no real existence, or the soul is man?

_Al._ Just so.

_Soc._ Is anything more required to prove that the soul is

man?

_Al._ Certainly not; the proof is, I think, quite sufficient.

[Sidenote: There remains a question of absolute existence, which has not

been considered by us, or rather is being considered by us when we speak

of the soul.]

_Soc._ And if the proof, although not perfect, be sufficient,

we shall be satisfied;—more precise proof will be supplied

when we have discovered that which we were led to omit,

from a fear that the enquiry would be too much protracted.

_Al._ What was that?

_Soc._ What I meant, when I said that absolute existence

must be first considered; but now, instead of absolute existence,

we have been considering the nature of individual

existence, and this may, perhaps, be sufficient; for surely

there is nothing which may be called more properly ourselves

than the soul?

_Al._ There is nothing.

[Sidenote: You and I are talking soul to soul.]

_Soc._ Then we may truly conceive that you and I are conversing

with one another, soul to soul?

_Al._ Very true.

[Sidenote: _The man and his belongings._]

_Soc._ And that is just what I was saying before—that

I, Socrates, am not arguing or talking with the face of

Alcibiades, but with the real Alcibiades; or in other words,

with his soul.

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ Then he who bids a man know himself, would have

him know his soul?

_Al._ That appears to be true.

[Sidenote: But if the soul is the man, he who knows only the arts which

concern man does not know himself.]

_Soc._ He whose knowledge only extends to the body, 131

knows the things of a man, and not the man himself?

_Al._ That is true.

_Soc._ Then neither the physician regarded as a physician,

nor the trainer regarded as a trainer, knows himself?

_Al._ He does not.

_Soc._ The husbandmen and the other craftsmen are very

far from knowing themselves, for they would seem not

even to know their own belongings? When regarded in

relation to the arts which they practise they are even further

removed from self-knowledge, for they only know the belongings

of the body, which minister to the body.

_Al._ That is true.

_Soc._ Then if temperance is the knowledge of self, in respect

of his art none of them is temperate?

_Al._ I agree.

_Soc._ And this is the reason why their arts are accounted

vulgar, and are not such as a good man would practise?

_Al._ Quite true.

_Soc._ Again, he who cherishes his body cherishes not himself,

but what belongs to him?

_Al._ That is true.

_Soc._ But he who cherishes his money, cherishes neither himself

nor his belongings, but is in a stage yet further removed

from himself?

_Al._ I agree.

_Soc._ Then the money-maker has really ceased to be occupied

with his own concerns?

_Al._ True.

[Sidenote: The lover of the soul is the true lover.]

_Soc._ And if any one has fallen in love with the person of

Alcibiades, he loves not Alcibiades, but the belongings of

Alcibiades?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ But he who loves your soul is the true lover?

[Sidenote: _Socrates, the only true lover of Alcibiades._]

_Al._ That is the necessary inference.

_Soc._ The lover of the body goes away when the flower of

youth fades?

_Al._ True.

[Sidenote: He only remains and goes not away, so long as the soul of his

beloved follows after virtue.]

_Soc._ But he who loves the soul goes not away, as long as

the soul follows after virtue?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And I am the lover who goes not away, but remains

with you, when you are no longer young and the rest are gone?

_Al._ Yes, Socrates; and therein you do well, and I hope

that you will remain.

_Soc._ Then you must try to look your best.

_Al._ I will.

_Soc._ The fact is, that there is only one lover of Alcibiades

the son of Cleinias; there neither is nor ever has been seemingly

any other; and he is his darling,—Socrates, the son of

Sophroniscus and Phaenarete.

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ And did you not say, that if I had not spoken first,

you were on the point of coming to me, and enquiring why I

only remained?

_Al._ That is true.

[Sidenote: And Socrates will never desert Alcibiades so long as he is not

spoiled by the Athenian people.]

_Soc._ The reason was that I loved you for your own sake,

whereas other men love what belongs to you; and your

beauty, which is not you, is fading away, just as your true 132

self is beginning to bloom. And I will never desert you, if

you are not spoiled and deformed by the Athenian people;

for the danger which I most fear is that you will become a

lover of the people and will be spoiled by them. Many a

noble Athenian has been ruined in this way. For the demus

of the great-hearted Erechtheus is of a fair countenance, but

you should see him naked; wherefore observe the caution

which I give you.

_Al._ What caution?

_Soc._ Practise yourself, sweet friend, in learning what you

ought to know, before you enter on politics; and then you

will have an antidote which will keep you out of harm’s way.

_Al._ Good advice, Socrates, but I wish that you would explain

to me in what way I am to take care of myself.

_Soc._ Have we not made an advance? for we are at any

rate tolerably well agreed as to what we are, and there is no

longer any danger, as we once feared, that we might be

taking care not of ourselves, but of something which is not

ourselves.

[Sidenote: _How is a man to take care of himself?_]

_Al._ That is true.

_Soc._ And the next step will be to take care of the soul, and

look to that?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ Leaving the care of our bodies and of our properties

to others?

_Al._ Very good.

[Sidenote: He who would take care of himself must first of all know

himself.]

_Soc._ But how can we have a perfect knowledge of the

things of the soul?—For if we know them, then I suppose

we shall know ourselves. Can we really be ignorant of the

excellent meaning of the Delphian inscription, of which we

were just now speaking?

_Al._ What have you in your thoughts, Socrates?

_Soc._ I will tell you what I suspect to be the meaning and

lesson of that inscription. Let me take an illustration from

sight, which I imagine to be the only one suitable to my

purpose.

_Al._ What do you mean?

[Sidenote: The eye which would see itself must look into the pupil of

another, which is the divinest part of the eye, and will then behold

itself.]

_Soc._ Consider; if some one were to say to the eye, ‘See

thyself,’ as you might say to a man, ‘Know thyself,’ what is

the nature and meaning of this precept? Would not his

meaning be:—That the eye should look at that in which it

would see itself?

_Al._ Clearly.

_Soc._ And what are the objects in looking at which we see

ourselves?

_Al._ Clearly, Socrates, in looking at mirrors and the like.

_Soc._ Very true; and is there not something of the nature

of a mirror in our own eyes?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ Did you ever observe that the face of the person

looking into the eye of another is reflected as in a mirror;

and in the visual organ which is over against him, and which 133

is called the pupil, there is a sort of image of the person

looking?

_Al._ That is quite true.

[Sidenote: _The argument recapitulated with some corrections._]

_Soc._ Then the eye, looking at another eye, and at that in

the eye which is most perfect, and which is the instrument of

vision, will there see itself?

_Al._ That is evident.

_Soc._ But looking at anything else either in man or in the

world, and not to what resembles this, it will not see itself?

_Al._ Very true.

_Soc._ Then if the eye is to see itself, it must look at the eye,

and at that part of the eye where sight which is the virtue of

the eye resides?

_Al._ True.

[Sidenote: And the soul which would know herself must look especially at

that part of herself in which she resembles the divine.]

_Soc._ And if the soul, my dear Alcibiades, is ever to know

herself, must she not look at the soul; and especially at that

part of the soul in which her virtue resides, and to any other

which is like this?

_Al._ I agree, Socrates.

_Soc._ And do we know of any part of our souls more divine

than that which has to do with wisdom and knowledge?

_Al._ There is none.

_Soc._ Then this is that part of the soul which resembles the

divine; and he who looks at this and at the whole class of

things divine, will be most likely to know himself?

_Al._ Clearly.

_Soc._ And self-knowledge we agree to be wisdom?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ But if we have no self-knowledge and no wisdom, can

we ever know our own good and evil?

_Al._ How can we, Socrates?

_Soc._ You mean, that if you did not know Alcibiades, there

would be no possibility of your knowing that what belonged

to Alcibiades was really his?

_Al._ It would be quite impossible.

[Sidenote: He who knows not himself and his belongings, will not know

others and their belongings, and therefore he will not know the affairs

of states.]

_Soc._ Nor should we know that we were the persons to

whom anything belonged, if we did not know ourselves?

_Al._ How could we?

_Soc._ And if we did not know our own belongings, neither

should we know the belongings of our belongings?

_Al._ Clearly not.

_Soc._ Then we were not altogether right in acknowledging

just now that a man may know what belongs to him and yet

not know himself; nay, rather he cannot even know the belongings

of his belongings; for the discernment of the things

of self, and of the things which belong to the things of self,

appear all to be the business of the same man, and of the

same art.

[Sidenote: _Happiness without virtue impossible._]

_Al._ So much may be supposed.

_Soc._ And he who knows not the things which belong to

himself, will in like manner be ignorant of the things which

belong to others?

_Al._ Very true.

_Soc._ And if he knows not the affairs of others, he will not

know the affairs of states?

_Al._ Certainly not.

_Soc._ Then such a man can never be a statesman?

_Al._ He cannot.

_Soc._ Nor an economist?

_Al._ He cannot.

_Soc._ He will not know what he is doing? 134

_Al._ He will not.

_Soc._ And will not he who is ignorant fall into error?

_Al._ Assuredly.

[Sidenote: And, if he knows not what he is doing, he will be miserable

and will make others miserable.]

_Soc._ And if he falls into error will he not fail both in his

public and private capacity?

_Al._ Yes, indeed.

_Soc._ And failing, will he not be miserable?

_Al._ Very.

_Soc._ And what will become of those for whom he is

acting?

_Al._ They will be miserable also.

_Soc._ Then he who is not wise and good cannot be happy?

_Al._ He cannot.

_Soc._ The bad, then, are miserable?

_Al._ Yes, very.

_Soc._ And if so, not he who has riches, but he who has

wisdom, is delivered from his misery?

_Al._ Clearly.

_Soc._ Cities, then, if they are to be happy, do not want

walls, or triremes, or docks, or numbers, or size, Alcibiades,

without virtue[60]?

[Sidenote: _The divine mirror._]

_Al._ Indeed they do not.

[Sidenote: He must give the citizens wisdom and justice, and he cannot

give what he has not got.]

_Soc._ And you must give the citizens virtue, if you mean to

administer their affairs rightly or nobly?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ But can a man give that which he has not?

_Al._ Impossible.

_Soc._ Then you or any one who means to govern and

superintend, not only himself and the things of himself, but

the state and the things of the state, must in the first place

acquire virtue.

_Al._ That is true.

_Soc._ You have not therefore to obtain power or authority,

in order to enable you to do what you wish for yourself and

the state, but justice and wisdom.

_Al._ Clearly.

[Sidenote: If he acts wisely and justly he will act according to the will

of God.]

_Soc._ You and the state, if you act wisely and justly, will

act according to the will of God?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ As I was saying before, you will look only at what is

bright and divine, and act with a view to them?

_Al._ Yes.

[Sidenote: In the mirror of the divine he will see his own good and will

act rightly and be happy.]

_Soc._ In that mirror you will see and know yourselves and

your own good?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And so you will act rightly and well?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ In which case, I will be security for your happiness.

_Al._ I accept the security.

_Soc._ But if you act unrighteously, your eye will turn to

the dark and godless, and being in darkness and ignorance

of yourselves, you will probably do deeds of darkness.

_Al._ Very possibly.

_Soc._ For if a man, my dear Alcibiades, has the power to

do what he likes, but has no understanding, what is likely to

be the result, either to him as an individual or to the state—for 135

example, if he be sick and is able to do what he likes,

not having the mind of a physician—having moreover tyrannical

power, and no one daring to reprove him, what will

happen to him? Will he not be likely to have his constitution

ruined?

[Sidenote: _The conversion of Alcibiades._]

_Al._ That is true.

_Soc._ Or again, in a ship, if a man having the power to do

what he likes, has no intelligence or skill in navigation, do

you see what will happen to him and to his fellow-sailors?

_Al._ Yes; I see that they will all perish.

_Soc._ And in like manner, in a state, and where there is

any power and authority which is wanting in virtue, will not

misfortune, in like manner, ensue?

_Al._ Certainly.

[Sidenote: Not power, but virtue, should be the aim both of individuals

and of states: and he only is a freeman who has virtue.]

_Soc._ Not tyrannical power, then, my good Alcibiades,

should be the aim either of individuals or states, if they

would be happy, but virtue.

_Al._ That is true.

_Soc._ And before they have virtue, to be commanded by a

superior is better for men as well as for children[61]?

_Al._ That is evident.

_Soc._ And that which is better is also nobler?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ And what is nobler is more becoming?

_Al._ Certainly.

_Soc._ Then to the bad man slavery is more becoming,

because better?

_Al._ True.

_Soc._ Then vice is only suited to a slave?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And virtue to a freeman?

_Al._ Yes.

_Soc._ And, O my friend, is not the condition of a slave to

be avoided?

_Al._ Certainly, Socrates.

_Soc._ And are you now conscious of your own state? And

do you know whether you are a freeman or not?

_Al._ I think that I am very conscious indeed of my own

state.

_Soc._ And do you know how to escape out of a state which

I do not even like to name to my beauty?

_Al._ Yes, I do.

_Soc._ How?

_Al._ By your help, Socrates.

[Sidenote: _The power of the state may be too much for us._]

_Soc._ That is not well said, Alcibiades.

_Al._ What ought I to have said?

_Soc._ By the help of God.

_Al._ I agree; and I further say, that our relations are

likely to be reversed. From this day forward, I must and

will follow you as you have followed me; I will be the

disciple, and you shall be my master.

_Soc._ O that is rare! My love breeds another love: and

so like the stork I shall be cherished by the bird whom I

have hatched.

_Al._ Strange, but true; and henceforward I shall begin to

think about justice.

_Soc._ And I hope that you will persist; although I have

fears, not because I doubt you; but I see the power of the

state, which may be too much for both of us.

The dialogues of Plato in five volumes, Vol. 2 (of 5) · 第 90 / 104 题