In your letter to the Unitarians, published in the _Courier_ of

Wednesday, you state that you never invited discussion with us (the

ministers) personally. We never imagined or affirmed that you did. But

surely you invited discussion with the class of persons called

Unitarians; and as a class has no voice except through its

representatives, and no discussion can take place without two parties,

you cannot think that we are departing from our proper sphere in

answering to your call. Did you not invite us (the Unitarians) to you,

“to tell and hear together the great things which God has done for our

souls?” And did this mean that all the “_telling_” was to be on one

side, and all the “_hearing_” on the other? Did you not press upon our

admiration the primitive practice of “controversial discussion of

disputed points?” And did this mean that there was to be neither

“_controversy_,” “_discussion_,” nor “_dispute_,” but _authoritative

teaching_ on one side, and _obedient listening_ on the other? In one of

two relations you must conceive yourself to stand to us;—that of a

superior, who _instructs_ with superhuman authority, or that of an

equal, who “_discusses_” with human and fallible reasonings. Between

these two conditions, there is _no third_; nor can you, with justice,

take sometimes the one and sometimes the other, according as the

occasion may require the language of dignity or that of meekness. We

certainly addressed you as an equal, and did not pay you the disrespect

of imagining that your invitation to “discussion” meant nothing at all.

We are sorry that you ascribe to us any intention to divert you from

your contemplated course of lectures. Be assured nothing could be

further from our design. We simply desired that, having _invited us_,

you should have _recognized us when we presented ourselves_, as parties

in the “discussion.”

We remain, reverend Sir,

Yours, with Christian regard,

HENRY GILES.

JOHN HAMILTON THOM.

Liverpool, February 7th. JAMES MARTINEAU.

---------------------

_To the Revs. J. Martineau, J. H. Thom, and H. Giles._

Gentlemen,—I think it due to the cause of truth, as well as to the

interest awakened in the public mind by this controversy, to address to

you a few observations on your last letter, as published in the

_Mercury_ of Friday. Though still strongly of opinion that the columns

of a newspaper present a most undesirable medium of communication upon

subjects such as those we are now engaged in discussing, I am unwilling

in the absence of any other accessible instrumentality, to lose the

opportunity it affords of impressing upon the attention of all

reflecting men the actual position which we relatively occupy.

1.—Being aware of the sincere anxiety which you have already manifested

for “discussion in any shape which should bring the statements on both

sides before the same parties,” it is not without considerable surprise

that I perceive that you “decline altogether” my proposal of a “platform

controversy.” Now, while you say I invited you to “_talk_,” and I answer

I invited you to _argue_, I cannot but think it will appear evident to

most, that by the subsequent publication, in an authentic form, of our

oral debate, you would have gained all that you could have desired in

the assistance of the press, while a select auditory, equally composed

of the respective friends of both parties, would have been able to judge

of your ability, not intellectually, but morally, to meet the case we

could have made out against your system. I cannot but hope that a secret

consciousness of the weakness of your cause has prompted your

determination, and am of opinion that while a discerning public will

approve the discretion of your resolve, they will not be slow to

appreciate its motive, or the precise measure of your zeal for a candid

impartial hearing.

But the “settling of historical and philological controversies by

popular debate has neither origin nor sanction from you.” Perhaps not:

but you cannot say that such a course is altogether without precedent.

You have doubtless heard of the protracted debate upon these same

controversies which were held in the north of Ireland a few years ago

between Mr. Bagot and Mr. Porter. May I ask whether it was the _result_

of that discussion that induced you to withhold your sanction from all

future controversies so conducted? Mr. Porter did not consider it

inconsistent with the principles of Unitarianism to debate his creed

before “a miscellaneous audience.” Are you wiser than he in your

generation? Again:—the proposed tribunal is not the best “to which to

submit abstruse theological questions respecting the _canon_, the

_text_, the translation of scripture.” But do you not apprise us a

little lower down, that you, as Unitarians, do _not deny the

genuineness, or alter the translation of any_ part of the authorized

version of the holy scriptures? Why, then, there is no ground for the

above apprehension. As these are not points which the tribunal will have

to try, why question its competence on their account? You are surprised

that I would “dispense with calm reflection on the evidence adduced.” I

am, in my turn, surprised that you should suppose I have any such

intention. When the “evidence adduced” has been taken down and

published, what is there to prevent its being “calmly” weighed and

estimated at its proper value? And then it is hard “to answer off-hand

all possible arguments” advanced. So it is; but not harder for _you_

than for _us_. Here at least we should stand on a footing of _perfect

equality_. It was hardly to be expected that _you_ should object to

this.

2.—I now come to the _mistake_ into which you say I have fallen, and

which you offer, obligingly, to correct. “We do not, as Unitarians, deny

the _genuineness_ or _alter the translation_ of any part of the

authorized version of the holy scriptures. The Unitarians have neither

canon nor version of their own different from those recognized by other

churches.” If this be true I certainly have been mistaken; but have the

satisfaction of knowing that this mistake has been shared by a host of

abler critics and more learned scholars than I can pretend to be. I had

always thought that I read of the liberties taken with the received text

by the Priestleys and Belshams—the Wakefields and Channings, when they

were of opinion that they spoke too strongly the language of

Trinitarians. I had also understood that the Bruces, the Drummonds, and

the Armstrongs of Ireland had performed achievements in the same line,

at which many not a little wondered. I had further imagined that the

unanswered—because unanswerable—volumes of Archbishop Magee presented

evidence on this behalf, with which few were unacquainted. Now, if you

mean to say that you, the ministers and representatives of Liverpool

Unitarianism have never “questioned the genuineness, nor altered the

translation of any part of the authorized version,” I can understand the

assertion, and willingly take your own word for its truth. But if you

mean to affirm that this has not been done, and to a very prodigious

extent, by Unitarians, both domestic and foreign, you will excuse me if

I positively deny the allegation, as being totally without foundation,

and I refer in proof to the notorious lucubrations of the above-named

doctors of Unitarian divinity, as well as to the severe exposures of

their semi-infidel tampering with the Bible which they have called

forth.

But while you do not “deny the genuineness or alter the translation of

any part,” perhaps you question the _inspiration_ of certain portions of

the sacred volume. You will remember that this was _one_ of the branches

of _evidence_ that we proposed to discuss with you, and that not the

least in importance. Why are you silent on this head? Is it not of any

moment, think ye, to admit the _genuineness_ and confess the

_authenticity_ of a book or a chapter or a verse of scripture, if you

withhold your conviction of its _inspiration_? Is it not a fact that you

might hold the _genuineness_ of the two first chapters of St. Matthew

and St. Luke, and feel no disposition to alter the _translation_ of a

word, and, at the same time, boldly deny that they were “given by

inspiration of God?” If I am mistaken here too, I pray to be set right.

If not, then the public will decide upon the candour and fairness of

your profession to remove the necessity of any controversy with you on

the score of EVIDENCE, because of your admission of the _genuineness_

and your satisfaction with the _accuracy_ of the authorized version,

while by an expressive but momentous silence, you acknowledge that the

_greatest of testimonial questions_ is by you disputed, and you at the

same time refuse to come forward boldly, and debate it fairly before the

church.

Again—“Unitarians have neither canon nor version of their own different

from those recognised by,” &c. You anticipate here a reference to “the

improved version,” and tell us that “it contains only the private

criticism of one or two individuals—that it has never been used in your

churches, and is utterly devoid of all authority with you.” Will you

excuse me for expressing my doubts of the accuracy of this statement,

for these reasons: —1. That work was the joint production of some of the

ablest men and best scholars that the Unitarian sect has ever been able

to boast of; and that the shades of Belsham, Lindsey, Jebb, Priestley,

Wakefield, &c.,[5] might well be astonished to hear their learned

labours so contemptuously spoken of by three modern disciples of their

school. 2. That, in the year 1819, (the date of the edition which I

possess,) the improved version had gone through no fewer than _five

editions_—a tolerable criterion of the extent of its circulation in

little more than twenty years. How many it may have passed through

since, I have been as yet unable to ascertain. 3. That so far from its

being “devoid of all authority,” it professes, in the title page, to

have been “published by the Unitarian Society for promoting Christian

Knowledge and the practice of virtue by the distribution of Books.” That

it may “never have been used in your churches” I can well believe, as it

is probable that the feelings of your people would have revolted too

strongly against its introduction, to make the experiment advisable: the

food which it furnishes may have proved too coarse even for the

digestive organs of popular Unitarianism itself. It is also possible

that the modern professors of your theology may be somewhat ashamed of

this awful specimen of “rational and liberal criticism,” and may

secretly wish that it had never seen the light. But the _existence_ of

it, at least, cannot be denied; and there it stands, a painful memorial

and a living witness, of what is “in the heart” of a system that exalts

_reason_ into a dominion over _revelation_, and that, unwarned by the

solemn admonitions contained in the book itself against the presumptuous

additions or detractions of human pride or folly, has dared

sacrilegiously to lay its unhallowed hands on the sacred ark, and to

attempt the mutilation and misrepresentation of the great magna charta

of the spiritual liberties of man.

3.—At the close of your letter, you say, “Surely you invited discussion,

with the class of persons called Unitarians.” I again repeat I did not.

I determined to have a course of lectures delivered in my church on the

points at issue between us and the professors of what we call your

“heresy.” And I invited the persons whom I was and am sincerely anxious

to benefit, to come and hear our well considered convictions of their

errors and their consequent danger, as well as our faithful exhibitions

of what we think “a more excellent way.” It will not be denied that a

clergyman of any denomination, in a free country, and more especially a

clergyman of the national church, has a right to preach, or authorize

others to preach, in his pulpit, according to his own discretion, and

invite whom he pleases to come and hear, without its being understood

that he challenges either the parties so invited, or their

representatives, to enter with him the lists of controversial

discussion. I absolutely protest against any such understanding. I did

not seek to _compel_ the attendance of any of your body, nor yet to deny

to you or them, in reply, the use of the same weapons that I had

employed in the attack. I _did_ mean that those who pleased should come

and hear us “_tell_” them a gospel which they were not _told_ by those

upon whom we looked as “blind leaders of the blind;” and that they

should be prepared to “learn” whatever should commend itself to their

consciences, under our teaching, as the truth of God. We did not, and do

not, expect to be able to bring demonstration home to the hearts of any

by the strength of our arguments, or by the force of our appeals; but we

anticipated that, in answer to our earnest prayers, the power of the

Holy Ghost would accompany our teaching of His truth, and make it

effectual to the conversion of souls “from darkness to light.” We

propose to stand before the congregations that might assemble, neither

as “superiors to instruct with superhuman authority,” nor as “equals to

discuss (if you mean by that _dispute_) with human and fallible

reasonings;” but simply as “ambassadors for Christ, as though God did

beseech them by us, that we might pray them in Christ’s stead—be ye

reconciled to God.”[6] This is the middle position in which we stand,

the _mean_ between your _two extremes_; and by God’s blessing, we will

continue to occupy it, until we shall have delivered our consciences,

and discharged our duty to a numerous, respectable, but, in our

judgment, blinded and deluded class of our fellow-countrymen.

And now, gentlemen, having taken such notice of certain allegations in

your letter as it seemed impossible to pass by, and with the full

purpose of continuing in the course on which I have entered, until,

through the blessing of God, the grand object which I have proposed to

myself shall have been accomplished,

I remain, yours, for the truth’s sake,

FIELDING OULD.

February 11, 1839.

-----

Footnote 5:

See “Improved Version,” note on 1 John, i. 1.

Footnote 6:

2 Cor. v. 20.

---------------------

_To the Revs. J. Martineau, J. H. Thom, and H. Giles._

Gentlemen,—You state, in your letter of the 7th ult., that “your

proposal of discussion through the press, though made for the third

time, has as yet received no answer.” It was thought by ourselves and

our clerical brethren, that as our lectures were to be printed and

published, every facility was afforded you of replying to them through

the same channel, and that thus the whole subject would be fairly

brought before the public.

In addition to this, we have offered to meet you in oral discussion; you

decline the proposal.

Anxiously desirous to bring the whole matter before this great

community, so as to prove that we not only entertain no apprehensions as

to the result, but are convinced that, by such an exposition, great good

will be effected, we, the undersigned, on our own responsibility, ACCEPT

YOUR TERMS of discussing the momentous question between us, in the form

of a correspondence in some public journal or periodical, altogether

independent of the lectures.

We remain, Gentlemen,

Yours, for the sake of the Gospel,

THOMAS BYRTH.

FIELDING OULD.

Liverpool, February 11. HUGH M‘NEILE.

---------------------

_To the Rev. Fielding Ould._

Rev. Sir,—The tone of your last letter makes us rejoice that, by the

acceptance on your parts of discussion through the press, this

correspondence may now be brought to a close.

Let us, Rev. Sir, place before you your own language, and ask, in solemn

sadness, are the feelings it betrays worthy of the occasion, or deserved

by us, or edifying to the public mind? These are your words:—“I cannot

but hope that a secret consciousness of the weakness of your cause has

prompted your determination, and am of opinion, that while a discerning

public will approve the discretion of your resolve, they will not be

slow to appreciate its motive, or the precise measure of your zeal for a

candid and impartial hearing.” Sir, it is not a little mournful to find

a Christian Minister expressing his hope that other men are

hypocrites,—that they are secretly conscious of the weakness of the

cause which they publicly defend. To _hope_ that we secretly know our

errors, whilst publicly preaching them as truth, is, indeed, strange

preference of faith before works. Let us assure you, Sir, that if we

could think of you as this language shows you think of us, we should

decline all discussion with you,—we should regard you as an opponent too

discreditable to be identified with a great question, or to be

considered as an honourable representative of your own party.

We apprehend, Rev. Sir, that nobody but yourself would think of

attributing to conscious weakness our preference of the most perfect and

searching method of discussion, to the most flimsy, insufficient, and

unscholarlike that could by possibility be selected. Had we wished to

catch the ear of a popular assembly, or to turn away attention from weak

points by oratorical artifices, we should have proposed this platform

controversy, instead of, as we did, carefully and purposely wording our

invitation and our enumeration of the modes in which the controversy

might be conducted, so as to exclude the idea of oral discussion.

We observe with sorrow, and with diminished hope of benefit from

controversy, that you can so sink the interests of truth in personal

championship, as to meet our solemn unwillingness to entrust the gravest

questions to extempore dexterity and accidental recollection, with the

reply that in this respect we should be at least _equally_ situated.

Doubtless, Sir, if a display of personal prowess was our object, this

would be conclusive; but TRUTH is our object, and we dare not offer it

such worthless advocacy.

With respect to the instance alluded to by us, of a decision similar to

our own, our impression had been that reasons also similar to our own

were given at the time; and we can only regret, since this impression

seems to be false, that we quoted the case.

With regard to the “Improved Version,” we shall only say here, that it

has been raised to an importance in this discussion which is entirely

factitious. The differences between us must be settled upon principles

of interpretation and criticism recognized by all scholars; and if these

principles can be shown, in any respects, to condemn the “Improved

Version,” in those respects we shall be the first to abandon it, feeling

ourselves to be in nothing bound by it. When we said that, as

_Unitarians_, we had no canon or version of our own, we meant that we

are quite willing to accept the text as fixed by scholars, most of them

Trinitarians, on critical principles. We most cheerfully recognize the

fundamental principles of Scriptural inquiry, so clearly and soundly

stated yesterday evening by Dr. Tattershall; and although agreeing with

many of your ablest scholars, in thinking the received translation to

require corrections, and not approving of the morality of taking up a

position in defence of truth unnecessarily unfavourable; yet, were our

only object to display the ampler and superior Scriptural evidence for

Unitarianism than for Trinitarianism, the received translation would be

quite sufficient for our purpose.

Again reminding you that the word “discussion” was introduced into your

original invitation, which contained also reference to the controversial

practice of primitive times, and set forth the advantages of “hearing”

and “telling” together,

We remain,

Your fellow-labourers and fellow-Christians,

JAMES MARTINEAU.

JOHN HAMILTON THOM.

Feb. 14, 1839. HENRY GILES.

---------------------

_To the Revs. Thomas Byrth, Fielding Ould, and Hugh M‘Neile._

Gentlemen,—Your willingness to discuss the Unitarian and Trinitarian

controversy in the most satisfactory mode, has given us sincere

pleasure; and if we have seemed to press this matter upon your

acceptance, we assure you it was with the single desire that the

statements of both views, in their most accurate and perfect forms,

might be presented to the same minds through an unbiassing medium; an

object which could be obtained neither by the unequal distribution of

separate lectures, nor by means so necessarily imperfect as oral

discussion.

We shall be happy to arrange with you, at the earliest possible period,

the manner and conditions of our proposed discussion.

We shall be ready to conform ourselves to your wishes upon the subject;

but we would suggest the desirableness of the discussion being entered

on at once—partly because attention to it might now be secured, and

partly because in the seriousness and number of our mutual engagements,

this controversy should not be allowed to interfere with our other

duties and responsibilities longer than is necessary.

We are, Gentlemen,

Yours, with respect,

JOHN HAMILTON THOM.

JAMES MARTINEAU.

Feb. 14, 1839. HENRY GILES.

---------------------

_To the Revs. J. Martineau, J. H. Thom, and H. Giles._

Gentlemen,—I cannot permit our correspondence to terminate without a few

remarks on your letter, as published in the _Mercury_ of Friday last.

1. I regret that the “tone” of my last address should have given you any

offence, while I am wholly unconscious of any intention unnecessarily to

wound the feelings of those who, I am free to admit, have hitherto

written at least courteously, if not very candidly, upon the subjects

which have been recently submitted to the attention of the public. Allow

me distinctly to disclaim any attempt to charge you with _hypocrisy_, or

make it appear that you “secretly know as errors what you publicly

preach as truths.” I took occasion merely to express my surprise that

persons who seemed so anxious for an impartial hearing of their defence,

should “altogether decline” a proposal by which, as it appeared, and

still appears to me, that object might have been so satisfactorily

attained; and in the exercise of a charity that “hopeth all things,” I

sought to attribute your refusal to a latent and half-formed conviction

within you, that your principles, in whatsoever sincerity entertained

and professed, might not bear the light of such an investigation as that

to which they would have been subjected in a public _vivá voce_

discussion. Where is there any charge of hypocrisy here? May not a man

be perfectly sincere in the maintenance of an opinion, which he would

nevertheless be very unwilling to defend in oral debate, from a proper

apprehension of the force of argument with which it might be

encountered, and a secret consciousness of his own slender materials for

its support? Be assured it is not necessary for us to brand you with

_hypocrisy_, in order to convict you of _heresy_. We are willing to give

you every credit for honesty of intention and integrity of purpose,

while we cannot but suspect that you are fully aware of the difficulty

of maintaining the principles of Unitarianism on the ground of an

unmutilated and “unimproved” Bible.

Were I equally disposed with you to take offence, I too might inquire,

“in solemn sadness, whether it be deserved by us, or edifying to the

public mind,” that you should more than insinuate, though of course in

very polished phrases, that “we have proposed a platform controversy, in

order to catch the ear of a popular assembly, and to turn away attention

from weak points by oratorical artifices.” Is this your opinion of us?

If we thought so, “we should decline all discussion with you as

opponents too discreditable to be identified with a great question, or

to be considered as honourable representatives of your own party.” But

_we_ are not offended. We look upon your language as simply intended to

convey an admission that your system is unpopular; one that, from its

cold, and cheerless, and unimpassioned character, would seek in vain to

enlist on its behalf any measure of popular sympathy, or conciliate any

favour unless from those whom it had imbued with its own proud spirit,

and accustomed to the low temperature of its own frigid zone.

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