BRISTOL TURNPIKES.

At a Meeting of the Trustees for the care of the several roads round

the city of Bristol, holden on 7th December 1818, at the Guildhall

in Bristol.

THOMAS DANIEL, Esq. in the Chair.

It appearing that under the triennial appointment of Mr. MᶜAdam, his

office of general surveyor will cease on the 16th day of January next;—

Ordered unanimously, That he be again appointed to that office for a

further term of three years, at the same salary.

Resolved unanimously, That the thanks of this meeting be given to Mr.

MᶜAdam for the zeal and ability with which he has executed the very

arduous duties of his office, from which it appears to this meeting that

the most important advantages have resulted to the roads under his care.

8th March 1819.

The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the

trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads.

_Osborne & Ward_, Clerks.

Does any part of that saving which is stated to have taken place on

those roads, arise from an increase of revenue?—There has been a small

increase of revenue, but whether arising from tolls or a better

collection of the statute labour, I cannot take upon me to say; but that

increase of revenue must be deducted from the saving of 2,700_l._, which

appears in the treasurer’s hands.

_Jovis, 11º die Martii, 1819._

_John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

Is there any part of your former evidence upon which you wish to give

any further explanation to the Committee?—In consequence of the surprise

and doubt expressed by some members of this honourable Committee, on

that part of my evidence respecting the carrying a road over a morass in

Somersetshire, and the proportions of the materials used upon that, and

the part of the road with a rocky foundation, which I stated from

memory, I thought it proper to write down to the treasurer of that road,

to request the favour of him to send for the surveyor, and know the

facts exactly from him. The treasurer, Mr. Phippen, who is a magistrate,

sent a certificate, signed by the surveyor. There was a certificate,

also, signed by Mr. Phippen; and with it there was a letter from Mr.

Phippen, of explanation; both of which I wish to put in.

[_The papers put in were as follow:_]

“I do certify that that part of the sixteen miles of the Bristol

turnpike road under my care, from Cross, over the marsh lands, towards

Bridgewater, is now in the best state I ever knew it, which is wholly

owing to having the very large stones laid at the foundation when the

road was first made more than fifty years since, lifted and beaten very

small. The general strength of the road is from seven inches to nine;

and five tons of stones, I have always considered for the repairs of

this part of the road equal to seven on the other part over the hills.

(Signed) “_Edward Whitting_, Surveyor.”

“I, Robert Phippen, Esq. one of His Majesty’s justices of the peace for

the county of Somerset, and treasurer on the road mentioned in the above

certificate, do hereby certify and declare, that the contents are true

to the best of my knowledge and belief; and the road in question has

been under my constant inspection for five years past; and the surveyor,

Edward Whitting, is a person well known to me, and worthy of credit.

“Dated March 9th, 1819.”

“Letter from Robert Phippen, Esq. to John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq. No. 9,

Northumberland-street, Strand, London.

“Dear Sir,

“There cannot, in my opinion, be any necessity to lay the foundation of

a road on any ground, even the most soft and peaty, with large stones;

daily observation tells me, that this is a great waste of time,

materials, and money. I have had, for these five or six years past, a

great deal of experience in seeing roads made, one in particular, over a

very soft peat bog, by Wedmore and Glastonbury, in this county. At the

time this new line of road was proposed to be made, a great difference

of opinion existed as to its practicability, and the method to be

pursued to accomplish it. Some of the parties were for laying the whole

of the road over the bog with brush-wood, on which were to be put large

flat stones, and on those smaller ones. We who were the other party,

insisted that a more simple, less expensive, and more permanent method

was to make it with stones alone, broken very small. We, at last,

prevailed, and the system succeeded even beyond our most sanguine

expectations; for this part of the road has stood uncommonly well,

though the travelling on it has been very great, and with heavy

carriages, and the little repairs wanted have been done as an

inconsiderable expense, compared to the other part of the road made on

hard ground over the hills.

“I remain, dear Sir, yours truly,

“_Rob. Phippen_.”

“Badgworth Court, near Axbridge,

March 9th, 1819.

I wish, in reference to the opinion I gave with respect to the statute

labour, to state, that I have to transact with sixty-nine parishes,

respecting their statute labour, in the counties of Somerset and

Gloucester; and that it is in consequence of these transactions, I gave

the opinion to the Committee that I had the honour to submit.

What proportion of the statute duty, by pecuniary payments, instead of

the mode at present adopted, do you conceive might be saved?—I think, if

one third of the present nominal value of the statute labour was to be

regularly paid into the hands of the treasurer, that it would be more

available to the public roads, than the present manner in which the work

is done, and certainly less onerous to the agriculture of the country.

_James MᶜAdam_, Esq. called in; and Examined.

You are the son of the last witness?—I am.

Have you been employed as a general surveyor upon the turnpike roads?—I

have.

Upon what roads have you been employed?—Upon the Epsom and Ewell

turnpike roads of twenty-one miles; upon the Reading road of six miles;

upon the eastern division of the Egham road, seven miles and a half; on

the western division of the Egham road, eight miles and a half; on the

Cheshunt turnpike roads, of eighteen miles; upon the Wades-mill turnpike

trust of twenty-nine miles; on the old North road, or Royston road, of

fifteen miles; upon the Huntingdon road of ten miles; and on the road

from Huntingdon to Somersham of ten miles; being together one hundred

and twenty-five miles.

How long have you been appointed to them?—My first appointment was in

December 1817.

Had you been previously in the habits of making the improvement of

turnpike roads your study?—I had at Bristol, under my father’s tuition.

The information you have acquired, I presume, then, has been entirely

under your father’s system?—Yes, upon my father’s principles of making

roads.

And those plans which you have adopted, have been entirely conformable

to the evidence which he has given before this Committee?—Entirely

conformable to those principles which my father has stated in his

evidence before this Committee.

Can you give the Committee any information with regard to the revenues

of the different roads under your management?—The gross revenue of the

trusts I have mentioned, of which I am general surveyor, is about

19,550_l._ per annum.

Please to state to the Committee, the state of repair in which these

roads were when they first came under your management?—The roads in

general were in a very loose, rough, and heavy state, much overloaded

with materials, the watercourses much stopped up, and the roads in

general in a very bad state.

What improvements have taken place upon them since your undertaking the

care of them?—The Epsom and Ewell roads were put into a perfect state of

repair during the last spring and summer; the Reading road has also been

put into a perfect state of repair during the last summer; and the

Cheshunt turnpike roads have been put into a good state of repair,

notwithstanding that the improvements commenced in October, and have

been carried on through the whole winter: the improvement is proceeding

rapidly in the other districts; but the three roads I have mentioned,

are the only trusts that are brought into a perfect state of repair. I

venture to speak freely and with great confidence, of the good state of

repair of these three trusts; for the reason, that no credit whatever is

attached to me, except what may be considered due by the careful

attention and zealous execution of my father’s commands. The merits of

the improvements are wholly his own.

Can you state to the Committee the expense with which these improvements

have been accompanied?—The expense upon the Epsom roads amounted to

1,929_l._ 8_s._ 1_d._ in the year 1818; that is the only trust upon

which I am enabled to state the twelvemonth’s expenditure.

In what proportion has the expenditure been divided between the labour

of men, women, and children, and the price of cartage and of

materials?—I have paid for labour upon the Epsom roads, 1,146_l._ 1_s._

2_d._; for materials, 98_l._ 10_s._; for cartage, 227_l._ 16_s._; for

tradesmen’s bills, 342_l._ 0_s._ 11_d._; for land to widen the roads,

115_l._; which makes up the expenditure 1,929_l._ 8_s._ 1_d._ I beg here

to state, that I did not avail myself of any statute duty upon the Epsom

and Ewell roads.

Can you state to the Committee the expenditure upon these roads, in the

years preceding your having the charge of them?—I can; in the years

1815, 1816, and, 1817, which are the three preceding years to my having

the charge of these roads. In the year 1815, there was paid for labour,

379_l._ 14_s._; for cartage, 1,019_l._ 14_s._; for gravel, 486_l._

15_s._ 5_d._; for tradesmen’s bills, 178_l._ 6_s._ 3_d._; making a total

of 2,064_l._ 9_s._ 5_d._ In the year 1816, there was paid for labour

340_l._ 16_s._; for cartage, 1,070_l._ 7_s._ 6_d._; for gravel, 563_l._

1_s._ 10_d._; for tradesmen’s bills, 382_l._ 4_s._ 5_d._ making a total

of 2,375_l._ 19_s._ 9_d._ In the year 1817, there was paid for labour,

339_l._ 16_s._; for cartage, 1,103_l._ 16_s._ 3_d._; for gravel,

551_l._; for tradesmen’s bills, 681_l._ 6_s._ 1_d._; making a total of

2,675_l._ 18_s._ 4_d._; independent of the statute duty upon the several

parishes, which were called forth by the former surveyor.

Do you know the value of that statute duty?—Not having had occasion to

call it forth, I am unable precisely to answer the question; but the

parishes are wealthy, and the statute labour must form a very

considerable amount.

I presume the comparative smallness of the expense which you incurred

for materials must have arisen from making use of the old materials upon

the road, by lifting them according to the plan which your father has

described?—That was the case.

In what state did you find the executive department of these roads when

you took charge of them?—I found at Epsom a person as surveyor, who had

been an underwriter at Lloyd’s Coffee-house, at a salary, as I am

informed, of sixty pounds per annum, and who was permitted to keep the

carts and horses, and do the cartage for the trust. At Reading, I found

an elderly gentleman as the surveyor, who was also one of the

commissioners, at a salary of twenty or thirty pounds per annum. I found

at Cheshunt three surveyors, the trust being divided into three

districts. One of the surveyors was an infirm old man, another a

carpenter, and another a coal-merchant. I found on the Wades-mill trust

three surveyors also, and the trust divided into three districts; one of

these surveyors was a very old man, another a publican at Buckland, and

the other a baker at Backway, with a salary of fourteen shillings a week

each. I found on the Royston road a publican as surveyor there; and I

found at Huntingdon a bedridden old man who had not been out of the

house for several months, and who had been allowed by the commissioners

to apply to a carpenter in the town for assistance, and to whom the

commissioners allowed twenty pounds per annum; this person, who

accompanied me in the survey of the roads, stated, that he could give

but little attention to the management of the road, the salary being so

small; and the state of those roads bore evidence to the truth of his

assertion.

Without entering into individual cases, do you consider that it was

possible, from the nature of the circumstances and engagements of these

parties, that they could give that attention to the roads which their

improvement required?—I do not consider it was at all likely that they

would.

What arrangements did you make in the executive department of these

roads after you took the charge of them?—With the permission of the

trustees, I appointed upon each trust an active sub-surveyor, whom I

required to keep a horse, and to have no other occupation whatever.

Can you state to the Committee the expense of employing such

sub-surveyors?—The salary of the sub-surveyors in general is one hundred

guineas a year; and where the revenues of the trust have been small, as

in the case of the Royston roads and the Huntingdon roads, I have made

one surveyor do the duty of both the trusts, in order that that expense

might be divided.

What emoluments have you yourself derived from your employment upon

these trusts?—I am unable to state the precise amount to the Committee;

for the reason that I have in every instance requested of the trustees

that that consideration might be deferred for at least a twelvemonth

after I was honoured with the charge of the roads; Epsom is therefore

the only road upon which that period has elapsed; and with the

permission of the Committee, I will read the resolution entered upon the

ledger of the Epsom roads upon that subject.

21st December, 1818.

We have examined the above accounts of Mr. MᶜAdam, the

surveyor, from its commencement to this date, and

find that the sum of 75_l._ 6_s._ 1_d._ is due to

Mr. MᶜAdam, by the trust, say £.75 6 1

But as no allowance has been made to the surveyor for

his management, and as that management has given

great satisfaction to the trustees, it was resolved

to give the surveyor, to cover all charges, and for

his trouble, it being distinctly understood for this

year only, the sum of one hundred and fifty guineas 157 10 ——

——————————

£.232 16 1

Which sum of 232_l._ 16_s._ 1_d._ the treasurer will be pleased to pay

to Mr. MᶜAdam.

(Signed) _T. Reid_,

_Edward Archbold_,

_John Webb_,

_Thomas Calverley_,

_Thomas Halliday_,

_William Dowdeswell_,

_J. M. Cripps_,”

With permission of the Committee I will relate what I stated to the

trustees, upon those resolutions being read to me; that I considered

that sum as extremely liberal, and quite sufficient for one small trust

to give a general surveyor, and were Epsom one trust in a district, such

a sum would be quite sufficient for their proportion of the salary of a

general surveyor; but standing alone, and divided from all other trusts

of which I had the management, and separated also by the London roads,

the necessity of my father’s travelling from Bristol and residing some

time at Epsom, and of so much being required to be done the first year

in a new trust, that sum did no more than repay the actual expenses

incurred. It will be obvious to the Committee that such a trust as

Reading, consisting of six miles only, distant from Bristol eighty

miles, and from London forty miles, and anticipating an equal liberality

on the part of the commissioners there, no sum such a trust could be

justified in giving to a general surveyor could repay even a moiety of

the expense of superintendance; the reward for my services, then, must

be looked for in the convincing proof that my father’s principles of

road-making are, if possible, more applicable, and more beneficial in a

trust where the materials are very bad than where they are good: my only

object in troubling the Committee with these observations, is to show

that unless a district of roads are united, the expense of a general

superintendence would not be paid by any salary such trust could be

justified in giving.

Can you state to the Committee the nature of the materials which you

have employed in the different roads under your care?—At Epsom there are

flints; at Reading a very small, foul gravel, with a thick adhesive loam

attached; at Waltham Cross, on the Cheshunt roads, small foul gravel;

towards Ware, flints; on the Wades-mill trust, flints; on the Royston

trust, flint, gravel, and blue permet stone; at Huntingdon, flint, and

gravel; Egham, flint and gravel.

Is there any particular method which you have employed out of the common

practice, for making use of these materials?—I have bestowed great

labour, care and attention in the preparation of these materials in the

pits, and in their separation previous to their being brought upon the

roads; and also much labour and care for a length of time after their

being laid upon the road, until it became perfectly smooth, hard and

level.

Can you state to the Committee the probable future expense of keeping

these roads in repair, after they have once been put into good order, as

compared with the annual outgoings under the old management?—I am of

opinion that the expense of maintaining these roads in good condition

will be considerably less than the former expenditure; for the reason,

that the better a road is, the less the wear; and that there will be a

less quantity of materials required, when properly prepared, than were

formerly used, when they were brought to the road in a very foul and

improper state.

Can you state generally, whether the proportion of labour, materials and

cartage that you have described upon the Epsom trust, agrees with the

same proportion upon the other roads under your management?—On some of

the other roads, the proportion of labour to cartage will be found

greater than upon the Epsom road. At Cheshunt, in five months, during

which the roads have been put into good repair, I have expended the sum

of 800_l._ forty of which alone was paid for cartage. Upon the

Wades-mill trust, out of 600_l._ expended, not a sixpence was paid for

cartage. Upon the Royston roads, where I have spent 500_l._ not any of

it was paid for cartage. Upon the Huntingdon roads, I have spent 20_l._

a week, the whole of which has been paid in labour. At Reading, during

eight months, 500_l._ were laid out, 400_l._ of which were paid for

labour.

Is it your opinion, that the proportion of labour, wages, and cartage,

is likely to continue the same, in the future reparation of the roads?—I

am of opinion they will; because there will be an increase of labour, in

the preparation of the materials, previous to their being brought to the

road; and also in the formation of the road after they are laid on. By a

more careful and proper preparation of the materials, a much less

quantity will be required to uphold the roads than formerly; I am,

therefore, of opinion, that the proportion of labour to cartage will

continue the same.

It appears, by your answer to a former question, that the expense of

cartage has been much diminished, owing to your making use of the

materials of the old road; will not the proportionate expense of cartage

for future years be increased in consequence of your no longer having

the resource of breaking up the roads, but being obliged to repair them

with fresh materials?—In some degree it certainly would.

In what way is the statute labour at present performed upon these

roads?—Upon two of the trusts only, the Royston road and the Huntingdon

road, I have had occasion to avail myself of any statute labour; the

fund upon the other trusts being more than sufficient to uphold the

roads without having recourse to statute labour. Upon these two trusts I

have derived some small advantage from statute labour.

_Colonel Charles Brown_, called in; and Examined.

Are you one of the commissioners of the turnpike road upon the Cheshunt

trust?—I am.

How long have you acted?—Several years, eight or ten years.

Be kind enough to explain to the Committee any recent improvements,

which have taken place in the management and repairs of the roads within

that trust?—Since the new method has been adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam, a very

evident advantage has arisen to the roads; they are now extremely good,

and were formerly very indifferent; I therefore attribute it solely to

the present mode adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam for nothing can be better than

the roads are at present.

Can you state to the Committee, whether the improvement has taken place

with an increase or a diminution of the expense?—I believe at about

one-third less; At least I understand that it was taken at about

one-third less.

Has there been any increase upon the tolls upon these roads?—Not since

Mr. MᶜAdam has had any thing to do with them. I have every reason to

suppose there will be a diminution, in consequence of the good state of

the roads.

Having heard Mr. MᶜAdam’s evidence, can you give the Committee any

further information with regard to the means by which these improvements

have been effected?—I conceive that the mode of Mr. MᶜAdam has been the

means of making the roads so much better, that it is only wonderful when

we see it now, that it has not taken place sooner, being founded upon

the best principle possible.

Can you state whether these improvements have taken place by the use of

any new materials, or by a better application of the existing

materials?—By the better application of the existing materials,

certainly.

Have you found this improved system attended with any advantages, in

regard to the employment of the poor within those parishes?—With regard

to the parish where I live, and where my property is situated, I have

seen considerable improvement, since we have had the opportunity of

sending our poor to be employed by Mr. MᶜAdam, who has most readily

employed every one we have sent; and I can state now, that we have not a

man unemployed that I know of.

_Ezekiel Harman_, Esquire, called in and Examined.

You are a commissioner of the turnpike road upon the Cheshunt trust?—I

am.

Having heard the evidence of the last witness; can you, upon your own

knowledge, confirm the testimony that he has given with regard to

improvement of the roads within your trust under Mr. MᶜAdam’s

inspection, and the advantages derived therefrom?—I can, certainly. It

is a matter of surprise to me, that so material an alteration has been

already made in the roads, the advantages of which are obvious to every

one travelling the road; and, as an additional proof, the coachmen who

are in the habit of driving that road have confirmed this statement. I

have witnessed also a similar improvement in the Epsom road, where the

forward state of the improvement shows an additional proof of the

advantages derived from this system.

_Thomas Bridgman_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

Are you a commissioner upon the Cheshunt trust?—I am.

Having heard the evidence of the two last witnesses does your judgment

in all respects confirm the testimony which they have given, in regard

to the improvement which has taken place upon your roads, and the

advantages derived from them?—Most assuredly. I have witnessed these

roads for more than twenty years, in a variety of forms as a

commissioner. I have observed, the failure of two or three different

sets of coachmen and coach concerns down below, all of whom are now

saying, that if this system continues they shall require a horse less.

All these parties were originally much prejudiced against the new

system.

_John Martin Cripps_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

You are a magistrate of the county of Surrey, and commissioner of the

roads upon the Epsom trust?—I am.

Can you inform the Committee what was the state of the roads within your

trust, previous to the year 1818?—They were very bad, having no

attention paid to the formation of the road; having the water, in many

places, going over the road; and great inattention paid to the breaking

of the materials, and to the expense attending the carting of them.

At what time did you commence the alteration in the system of

management?—At the latter end of December 1817, when the roads were put

under the superintendence of Mr. MᶜAdam, senior, and when his son

commenced the management.

What alterations have since taken place in the state of the roads?—By a

newer formation of the road; the materials being properly broken; and

the water carried under the road by trunks, or drains, with proper

gratings.

Referring to the particulars of the expenditure given by Mr. MᶜAdam,

jun. in his evidence this day, can you confirm the accuracy of those

accounts?—Yes; and I can explain that the items for tradesmen’s bills

include the wharfing and repairs of Bridges in each year; I can add,

that the statute labour for 1815, 1816, and 1817, amounting to one

hundred pounds each year, which Mr. MᶜAdam has not availed himself of in

their improvements.

Had the system of management pursued by Mr. MᶜAdam proved the means of

giving employment to labourers in the district, and thereby lessening

the poor’s rates?—Very much so; and they have occasionally employed from

twenty to thirty persons, stout able-bodied men, who otherwise would

have been obliged to have been supported out of the parish rates.

Have you in consequence had any persons who were able to work who have

been out of employ?—Between twenty and thirty persons have been employed

for the last three months in breaking flints, and in repairing and

improving the roads, who otherwise must have come upon the poor’s rates;

and all the persons who have been enabled to work have found employment

in consequence of this improvement; that has been the means of greatly

relieving our poor’s rates.

Has the same system been extended to the private roads in that

district?—It has been adopted in some of the private roads of that

district, and with the same beneficial effects.

Can you state any particulars with regard to the necessity there has

been for carting additional materials for these roads?—At present Mr.

MᶜAdam having lifted the roads, has found more than sufficient material

for the support of those roads.

What have been the materials that have been used?—The materials that

have been used are flints chiefly.

During the state of improvement of these roads, have the tolls been

increased or reduced within your trust?—At our last meeting, we agreed,

that at the next letting, the tolls should be reduced from May next, for

the benefit of agriculture in general; and that where two shillings and

eight-pence is now paid, they will have now to pay one shilling; that

with relation to the agricultural interest, will be a reduction of

twenty five pounds per mile.

Within your own personal observation, have you known any other instance

in which a road has been formed upon the same principles as those

adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam?—I had an opportunity of observing in Sweden that

the roads were more beautiful than any I ever beheld; they are formed in

the same manner as by Mr. MᶜAdam, the materials broken extremely small.

The material is the best in the world, as it is rocks of Granite; and so

well do they understand the necessity of breaking them small, that you

never behold throughout Sweden, a fragment of granite larger than the

size of a walnut, for the purposes of the roads.

What is the shape of these roads?—To the eye they appear perfectly flat;

but upon trial by the spirit level, there is a slight degree of

convexity.

_William Dowdeswell_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

You are a commissioner upon the Epsom trust?—I am.

How long have you been a commissioner?—About four or five years.

Have you had any opportunity of observing the comparative state of the

roads since they were put under the care of Mr. MᶜAdam, compared with

that in which they were before?—They were very bad when first put under

Mr. MᶜAdam’s care; they are now, I think, very good.

Do you attribute this to the improved system of management?—Totally.

Can you confirm the evidence that has been already given relative to the

expenses of repairing the roads previously to that time and since?—From

the statement made to me by the former surveyor, and from Mr. MᶜAdam’s

statement, I believe the statements delivered in to you are perfectly

correct. Considering the advantage which the public has derived from Mr.

MᶜAdam’s system, I have adopted the same upon the parish roads. I

offered myself to the parish as their surveyor, for the purpose of

carrying that system into execution. I have found employment for all

persons who wanted employment upon the parish roads, assisted

occasionally by persons going to the public roads under Mr. MᶜAdam.

How long have you adopted this system upon the private roads?—Ever since

October last.

From that period the whole of the poor have been employed upon the

parish roads?—From that period the whole of the poor that wanted

employment, have been employed upon the parish roads, or upon the public

roads under Mr. MᶜAdam.

Have those persons been employed by you, by piece-work or by

day-work?—The roads were in such a state, and as I wanted knowledge to

employ by piece-work, I have been compelled to employ them by day-work.

From your experience are you of opinion that these private roads, made

upon the new system which has been adopted, can be kept in good repair

at a less expense than they formerly cost in their bad state?—At a very

considerable less expense than formerly.

_Martis, 23º die Martii, 1819._

Mr. _Benjamin Farey_, called in; and Examined.

You are, I believe, the surveyor of the Whitechapel road?—I am.

How long have you been in that office?—Nine years.

In what situation did you find the road, at the time of your undertaking

the management?—I found the Whitechapel road in a dreadful state, partly

from the neglect of the surveyor, in laying on foul and improper

materials. In the autumn of 1809, it was almost impassable.

Gravel is the only material you have in that neighbourhood?—Gravel is

the only material we find, on or near the spot.

Is the traffic upon the Whitechapel road so great as to render it

impossible to preserve it in good order with the present materials?—It

is impossible to preserve it in good order at all times, with the

present materials; it is past the art of man.

Do you consider the traffic upon that road, as greater than upon any

other road out of London?—I believe it is a heavier traffic; there are

not so many light carriages, as on some other roads.

What species of carriages do you consider do the most injury to your

road?—The carriages that do the most injury, are those with the widest

wheels.

In what way do you consider that they injure the road?—By their great

weights destroying the materials.

Are the carriages you allude to, exempt from the payment of tolls?—They

pay much less tolls. The pressure, or crushing of materials by the wide

wheels, is owing to the wheels not running flat.

Being of a conical shape?—Being of a barrelled and conical shape, and

the middle tire projecting above the others, with rough nails.

Do you consider, that if those wheels were made of a cylindrical or flat

shape, it would be good policy to grant them any exemption from

tolls?—They would be less injurious for being cylindrical; but whenever

the road was at all out of the level, and the weight came on one edge of

the wheel, the road would be destroyed there.

Upon the whole, is it your opinion that there are any circumstances

which justify an exemption from toll, on account of the breadth of the

wheels?—I do not see any at all, for I think they are injurious in every

sense, on account of the great weights they carry.

Do you consider that injury is done to the roads, in consequence of the

use of single shafts in waggons?—Very great.

In what way?—In consequence of single shafts, the horses follow in one

track, in the centre of the carriage; and the wheels also follow each

other in other tracks, and cut ruts: if there were double shafts, they

would naturally avoid former wheel-tracks, which would be less injurious

to the road.

Do you consider it therefore desirable to give encouragement to double

shafts?—I do.

Do you consider the watering of that road in any way injurious?—I

consider that watering that road in summer, is very injurious.

In what respect?—The water separates the stones, owing to the softening

of the loam, and makes the road spongy and loose.

At what periods do you consider it injurious to water the road for

laying the dust?—Before May and after August.

Have you not a practice of sometimes watering in winter, when there is

no dust?—After the most careful sifting of the gravel, a small quantity

of loamy dirt will unavoidably still adhere to the stones, and this

loam, together with a glutinous matter which accumulates in the summer

from the dung and urine of the cattle (which accumulation the summer

watering has a tendency to increase) occasions the wheels to stick to

the materials, in certain states of the road, in spring and autumn, when

it is between wet and dry, particularly in heavy foggy weather, and

after a frost; by which sticking of the wheels, the Whitechapel road is

often, in a short time, dreadfully torn and loosened up; and it is for

remedying this evil, that I have, for more than eight years past,

occasionally watered the road in winter. As soon as the sticking and

tearing up of the materials is observed to have commenced, several

water-carts are employed upon these parts of the road, to wet the loamy

and glutinous matters so much, that they will no longer adhere to the

tire of the wheels, and to allow the wheels and feet of the horses to

force down and again fasten the gravel stones; the traffic, in the

course of four to twenty-four hours after watering, forms such a sludge

on the surface, as can be easily raked off by wooden scrapers, which is

performed as quickly as possible; after which the road is hard and

smooth, the advantages of this practice of occasional winter watering

have been great; and it might, I am of opinion, be adopted with like

advantages on the other entrances into London, or wherever else the

traffic is great, and the gravel stones are at times observed to be torn

up by the sticking of the wheels.

In what state of the road are you in the habit of laying on fresh

materials?—I prefer laying on materials immediately after the road has

had a scraping, in consequence of there being upon the surface of the

road a small quantity of dirty matter and broken gravel, which then form

a sort of cement for the gravel to fix in.

You consider it advantageous to lay on the materials when the road is

wet?—I do, because the gravel adheres closer.

Considering the very great traffic upon the Whitechapel road, is it your

opinion that it would be advantageous to pave any part of that road?—I

think it would be desirable to pave it, within some feet of the footpath

more particularly.

What breadth from the sides of that road would you consider it desirable

to have paved?—About eleven or twelve feet from the footpath.

You would consider it a desirable plan to pave the sides of that road in

preference to the centre?—Certainly.

For what reasons?—If the centre was paved, the light carriages would be

very much annoyed; when the gravel road was good on the sides, the heavy

carriages would go there, and the light carriages would be driven on the

stones from the sides again; if the centre was paved the carters would

be obliged to walk on that road to manage their horses, and would be

considerably annoyed by carriages, horsemen, &c. passing: but if the

sides of that road were paved, the carters would be enabled to walk on

the footpath and to manage their horses without annoyance.

What is the shape of road which, from your experience, you would give

the preference to?—I would have the road barrelled, and made so as that

it would convey off the water in the severe weather in winter, when the

roads are generally bad.

Which do you give the preference to, a road with a flat surface, or one

that gradually declines from the centre?—I think a road which gradually

declines from the centre is by far the most preferable, decidedly so.

What is the degree of the declivity or fall which you would recommend as

the most desirable?—I have paid particular attention to the Whitechapel

road, where it is of the width of 55 feet, and the fall from the centre

to the sides is 12 inches; but to attain this shape, when the road is

worn down, when first covered with gravel, there should be a fall not

exceeding from 16 to 18 inches from the centre to the sides. [_The

witness delivered in a cross section of the road._]

Is it your opinion that any parliamentary regulation with regard to

stage coaches is necessary for preventing injury to the road?—None.

You think it desirable that they should remain as at present?—Yes.

What is the state of the Whitechapel road now, as compared with what it

was some years ago?—During the greater part of the year, it is now one

of the most pleasant roads out of London to travel upon; but from the

gravel being small and brittle, it is soon worn down, by the great

number of heavy weights passing on it. With the small gravel we have in

the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, the road at times breaks up, and

becomes in a bad state; but by the application of water, to stop the

sticking of the wheels, and separate the sludge, in two days they are

found in a good state again.

Have you any other suggestion to make to the Committee for the

improvement of that road, or of roads in general?—On that road, very

great improvement might be made, in not allowing the wide wheels to pass

by paying so little toll, or to carry so great weights as at present; if

the narrow-wheeled waggons were to use double shafts, they would be less

injurious to the roads: even with narrow-wheeled carts, if the two

fore-horses were double, the shafts not being in their track, it would

be less injurious to the roads.

_John Farey_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

What is your profession?—I am a mineral surveyor and engineer.

Have you turned your attention to the state of the roads in the

different districts of the kingdom?—I have, very particularly.

Can you furnish the Committee with any information with regard to the

state of those roads, as compared with former years?—I can; I have

particularly attended to that subject; more especially in the time of

the late duke of Bedford, for whom I was an agent. I have since been

employed in nearly every part of England and Wales, and also in

Scotland: and I have statements by me of the various observations I have

made.

You have been employed under the late duke of Bedford, in the

improvement of the roads in the neighbourhood of Woburn?—In the

management of his roads in Bedfordshire, and of all his rural works.

Describe what improvement of the main road has taken place under your

direction, in Woburn?—The whole of the line of the road through Woburn,

except about three hundred yards in different places, is on a very

strong alluvial clay: the road passes over naked sand, only for three

hundred yards; this road had been rendered so sandy and so bad, entirely

by bringing soft sand-stone out of Buckinghamshire, at three miles

carriage, upon the average, in Woburn, and some of that stone was

brought almost to the end of Hockliff Town, where the best gravel

abounds. It appeared, from the remains of a number of gravel pits, that

there had been formerly a great deal of gravel dug in Woburn; this

circumstance I mentioned to the duke of Bedford, and he desired search

to be made; and it was ascertained that Woburn might furnish gravel

enough, adequate to any purpose. In consequence of which, his Grace

directed, when the labourers were much in want of employment, that the

poor persons should be employed in preparing a great quantity of gravel

for the purposes of this turnpike road. I undertook to direct the taking

of this gravel out, and to level the siftings and dirt in a uniform

manner, and lay all the soil again upon the top; by which means the land

was in no degree injured, but, in fact, considerably benefited, by being

loosened to that depth. A great many hundreds of cubic yards of

clean-sifted and picked gravel were prepared in numerous square stacks,

and the trustees at a meeting, or else their clerk, were informed, that

this gravel his Grace offered to the road at the mere cost of labour,

without any thing for the gravel, or the temporary damage to the

occupiers of the land. After a long time of hesitation, the trustees or

their clerk returned an answer, that they did not like that mode,

alleging that their surveyor ought to be allowed to dig materials where

and how he liked, and they would not have this gravel: it lay there,

some of it for two or three years, upon the land. In that time a number

of private roads were making of his Grace’s, and a good deal of it was

used on these. The main road became progressively worse and worse, and

the post-office caused the parish to be indicted. I was then surveyor,

and made an application to the trustees, stating the circumstances the

road was under: that road-trust is thirteen miles in length, two of

which, or rather more, are in the parish of Woburn; there is a toll-gate

in the parish which the inhabitants are liable to all the toll of; some

of them, even in going and returning to and from their fields: the

trustees had exacted very strictly _the half_ of the statute duty,

although the parish had, I think, eleven miles of private roads to

maintain. I mention this circumstance to show there was no default on

the part of the parish; and it was afterwards proved, that they had done

their duty; the trustees merely laughed at the application, and said,

that they had nothing to do with it: we must repair the road, and till

we did so, they would not lay out a farthing upon our road. It happened,

very fortunately for the parish of Woburn, that their act was very

nearly out, and they applied for a new one; the parish opposed it,

stating, that the trustees had misapplied the tolls, and praying, that

the part of the road, through Woburn, should be taken out of their

management; the act accordingly directed, that two-thirteenths of the

tolls should be paid over to the parish surveyors of Woburn, and the

trustees were not to call for any statute duty, or interfere in the

management of this part of the road; in consequence of this, the gravel

mentioned, which remained, and great quantities dug on purpose, was used

upon the road, in a sufficient quantity at once, so as to admit of its

settling down together; for it wanted lining nine inches thick, or more,

and the road has since been perfectly good.

_Jovis, 25º die Martii, 1819._

_John Farey_, Esquire, called in; and Examined,

In effecting the improvement of the Woburn road, did you make use of any

particular mode of applying the gravel?—The gravel, before the time of

using it, had been very clean-sifted, and separated from the dirt and

sand; the great stones had been picked out, and such of the flints which

were of a long and irregular shape, in order that they might be broken.

After laying the gravel upon the road men were daily employed to rake

the gravel into the ruts, and, at the same time, to carefully pick off

the surface any stones that were either soft or improperly shaped, like

long flints, or too large.

What is your opinion, in regard to the form the most preferable for

turnpike roads?—A small convexity in the middle.

Will you state the fall, in any given width of road, that you would

prefer?—Referring to my brother, Mr. Benjamin Farey’s evidence, I agree

with him in wishing that the section which he produced, might be

received by the Committee, as an answer to this question.

Is there any particular circumstance, in the formation of roads, more

particularly applicable to the immediate neighbourhood of London?—In the

neighbourhood of London, and of several other large towns, the materials

that are to be readily procured, are of too tender and brittle a nature

to endure the wear of the heavy carriages; I therefore am of opinion,

that it would be proper to pave the sides of all the principal entrances

into London; but not the middle, as has been done on the Commercial road

and Borough Stones’-end road. My reasons for preferring the sides being

paved are, that it is next to impossible to compel the carters to keep

upon the pavement in the middle of the road, in too many instances; the

fear of damage, from the swift going carriages, occasions them, either

to draw their carts close to the sides, and walk upon the footpaths, or

what is worse to leave their horses in the middle, beyond a train of

carriages. The sides being paved, would enable one of those trains of

carriages to enter London on one side of the road, and go out of it on

the other, without many occasions to turn out of their tracks: which

keeping nearly to the same tracks, upon a well-paved road, would not be

prejudicial; but on a road formed of gravel is entirely ruinous.

Do you consider that the plan of rolling the roads in the neighbourhood,

of London, might be advantageously introduced?—The centre of the roads I

should recommend to remain covered with clean-sifted and picked gravel,

having as many as possible of its large, roundish and smooth stones

broken by means of a hammer before the time of laying it on the road,

and that an heavy iron roller, of from four to five feet diameter, and

not less, might be advantageously used in the first settling down of

this gravel; a small roller, such as I believe to have been tried in the

neighbourhood of London, very heavily loaded on its top, might have a

tendency to force the loose gravel before it so as not easily to be

drawn or to mount on to the gravel driven before it without crushing the

flints. I will add, I am of opinion, that a roller could not be

beneficially used upon a road at any other times but after new coating

it with gravel, or after a frost or the sticking of materials to the

wheels may have loosened up the materials.

Do you consider that the present regulations in regard to exemptions of

tolls to waggons with broad wheels, are justified by sound policy?—In my

opinion, those exemptions have wholly originated in mistaken principles,

and that no wheels wider than about six inches are now, in fact, used

upon the roads, owing to the general and gross deceptions which the

waggoners practise as to the breadth of surface that their wheels roll

on; and that if by any more efficient regulations, the users of broad

wheels were compelled to roll the breadths of surface, which the laws

contemplate, all such wheels would be immediately disused, from the

great additional force of draught which broad wheels occasion during the

average state of all the roads.

Are you of opinion that any regulation by statute, for substituting

cylindrical for conical wheels, would remedy that evil, or justify an

exemption from toll?—As far as I have observed, there are no conical

wheels in use: all the wheels are rounding or barrelled, and it is

comparatively an immaterial circumstance whether they approach the form

of a cone or a cylinder, while they remain so rounding or barrelled,

because their enormous loads roll on a very small portion of the surface

of all those broad wheels. I think that six-inch cylindrical wheels, or

under, are the most practicable and useful, provided the projecting

nails are most rigidly prohibited, which I believe can never be done but

by a penalty per nail upon the wheelers who put in those nails, and upon

the drivers of the carriages who used such roughly-nailed wheels.

Are you of opinion that the penalties now fixed by law upon over-weights

are regulated upon good principles?—I consider the whole system as to

penalties upon over-weights generally bad; the present regulations seem

to me framed upon mistaken principles, and are the source of very great

impositions.

In what manner might the penalties and tolls upon carts and waggons be

best fixed?—It is not practicable very simply or in this way to state

any one scale that would be generally applicable for each breadth of

wheels: below six inches, there should be a rate fixed, which would

apply to ordinary or gate-tolls, and at the weighing machines additional

tolls, which I will call machine-tolls, should be levied upon all

carriages which exceeded the weight, to be regulated in an increasing

scale for each breadth of wheel, so as very greatly to discourage, but

not ruinously to prohibit the occasional carrying of large weights upon

any wheels.

You are not, then, of opinion that it would be right to do away the

regulations altogether in respect to the weights, and apportion the

tolls only to the number of horses?—By no means.

Are you acquainted with any particular weighing machine, which obviates

the common objection in regard to impositions by the machine-keepers?—I

am; Mr. Salmon, of Woburn, many years ago, contrived, and had a patent

(which has expired) for a weighing machine, intended to prevent

impositions on the carters: the machine being so contrived as to be

locked up from the machine-keeper, and accessible only to the surveyor,

and so as to exhibit the exact weight by a revolving index, like the

hands of a clock, which are called clock-face indexes; a great number of

these weighing machines have long been in use in the kingdom, some in

the immediate environs of London: by looking at the index of which

machine, the carter, or any passer by, may see that the machine, before

the carriage is drawn upon its weigh-bridge, is in just balance; and all

the time the carriage remains upon the weigh-bridge, the index exhibits

the weight, so that the carter can take it down; and at the same time

the dial-plate is made an abstract of the law, by there being written

against each of the weights fixed, the breadth of the carriage wheel,

and the season to which that weight is applicable at the commencement of

penalties for over-weights.

Can you inform the Committee of the expense of a machine of this

description?—I cannot; but it is trifling, compared with its advantages,

and an index may be added to a machine upon the common principle, using

weights, placed in a scale; they may be applied to any good machine

already in use.

Are you of opinion there exists any necessity for limiting the number

of horses in carts and wagons, upon roads where there are

weighing-machines?—I am of opinion not; and even doubt the propriety

of calculating the gate-toll by the number of horses which draw the

carriage. Upon private or parish roads, where no machines are erected,

there seems, however, no other mode of regulating or preventing

excessive loads being carried, to the ruin of the roads, than limiting

the number of horses; but in case of the practice becoming general,

which already prevails in many of the towns in the middle of England,

of there being a weighing-machine, kept by a cottager, at all the

principal entrances at the town, at which he is authorized (by the

local magistrates, I believe,) to collect a small toll for each

weighing, for those who voluntarily apply to him, by which means all

loads passing into and out of such towns, may be, and the greater part

of them are now, weighed; and if this were adopted in the environs of

London, (with the addition of a yard and a warehouse, where a carter

who has inadvertently taken up too large a load, either of dung,

furniture, or other articles, of the weights of which he could not be

accurately informed, may learn the same; and where, upon the result of

this weighing, if it should be discovered that he had much too large a

load, he could there throw off and deposit a part of it, either to

abandon it if of small value like dung, or to take it up from the

warehouse, at a future time,) these entrance weighing-machines would

remove the only valid objection to weighing the loads of manure going

out of London, by which the roads are at present more cut up and

destroyed, than by any other description of carriages.

Will you have the goodness to state the principle upon which you prefer

that the tolls should be regulated entirely by weights and breadth of

wheels, without regard to the number of horses drawing?—Because nothing

can be more vague or unsatisfactory, than the latter mode of defining

weights, or preventing the carrying of excessive loads, because horses

are of such very different degrees of size, condition and strength, and

the humanity or otherwise of their drivers are so very different; but

more on account of the very great inequality of the different roads of

the kingdom, which this general regulation is now made to apply to, as

to the number and steepness of the hills: the precautions that have been

used, of setting up posts upon the tops and bottoms of those steeps, to

define where extra horses may be used, are entirely become useless,

comparatively, none of the hills now remain, to any length, with so

great a degree of steepness, as to cause it to be worth any one’s while

to keep horses stationed there, for the purpose of assisting heavy

carriages up those hills for hire; still less has it occurred that any

waggoner has spare horses following his waggon, for which he must pay

tolls, in order to avail himself of this useless permission, to use any

number of horses up the steep hills.

Are you of opinion that stage-coaches require, or would admit of any

regulation with respect to their wheels or weights?—I am clearly of

opinion, that they would not; for in travelling, when it has happened

that I could not get a seat on the front of the coach, I have, through

many long days, carefully attended to the impression made by the wheels

of the carriages upon which I have been travelling (when they have been

among the heaviest loaded coaches) and have compared these impressions

with those of the carts and waggons, particularly broad-wheeled ones,

which we met; from which observations, and other more particular ones, I

am of opinion, that the injury done to the roads by the coaches,

compared with their utility and the tolls they pay, is not such as to

justify any legal restraint on their wheels or weights.

Are you of opinion, that it would be attended with any advantage to the

roads, to encourage, by any regulation or exemption from tolls, the use

of carriages, varying the length of their axles, so as to prevent their

running in the same tracks?—I am of opinion it would be very beneficial,

and have particularly so stated to the Board of Agriculture, with an

example of the tolls over a new road, which are so regulated in

Derbyshire: in addition to which, some inducement in the abatement of

tolls, might be made to those carriages, which now generally use single

shafts like the farmers’ carts and waggons, on their adopting double

shafts, so that all their horses may draw in pairs; this being

applicable even to three-horse carts, as far as concerns the two

foremost. Stage-coaches, for the reasons here alluded to, as they do all

draw in pairs, and very seldom follow in any previous and deep rut, do

far less damage to the roads than otherwise would happen; their springs

also, and swiftness of motion, contributing, very materially, to

lessening their wear of the road.

Are you of opinion that any advantage would be derived from the general

commutation of statute duty?—I have long been of opinion that the whole

principle of statute duty, as now regulated, is erroneous; labour in

kind should entirely cease: and the surveyor collect a more equable rate

on all property in his township; the present regulations for calling out

the teams and making of a road rate, are so complicated, as to be above

the capacity of the majority of parish surveyors, who in most or all

instances collect the rates for the turnpike roads as well as the

private roads.

Will you state your opinion of the statute labour, as it particularly

applies to turnpike roads?—In all the local road acts which I have

examined, one half of the statute duty of each township is apportioned

to each toll road which passes through any part or corner of that

township, which in innumerable instances, is very highly prejudicial; a

due proportion of the fair road rate, as already mentioned, should be

payable to each toll road, where there are more than one in the

township, in proportion (or nearly so, as the quarter sessions might

order) to all the lengths of all the roads within the township which it

contributes to repair.

From your observation of the different roads throughout the kingdom, do

you think that important advantages would be derived from their being

placed under skilful surveyors, acting for large districts?—At present,

the separate trusts are so exceedingly different in extent, many of them

extending only three, four and five miles, while others have fifty or a

hundred miles of road under their trusts, that it seems impracticable,

in many trusts, to employ a very skilful and competent surveyor, on

account of the great and unnecessary expense that would be incurred on

the short lengths of road; but if the legislature should see it right to

enact the appointment of thoroughly competent district surveyors, who

might have the superintendence and control, to a defined extent, over

the officers of the local trustees of turnpike roads, as well as over

the surveyors of the parish roads within their districts, the most

important advantages would result.

Do you not think great inconvenience arises from the great numbers

generally found forming commissioners of turnpike trusts?—From my own

experience, I cannot say that I have seen any evil from the great number

of trustees, on the contrary, the greatest mismanagement that I have

seen in any roads, has arisen from the clergymen of the districts being

almost the only acting trustees; the greatest and most active land

owners frequently having no share in such trusts: the late duke of

Bedford, for instance, not being a trustee in the vicinity of Woburn for

many years after he took an active part in improving the district.

_James Walker_, Esq. called in; and Examined.

You are a civil engineer?—I am.

In the course of your experience have you turned your attention to the

making and repairing of roads?—I have been employed in the making and

repairing of several roads, and the regulation of others.

In what part of the kingdom have you been employed, and what

observations have occurred to you upon this subject?—The whole of the

works executed under the Commercial Road, the East India Road, the

Barking Road, and the Tilbury Road Acts, have been under my direction,

as well as the roads made under the Bridge and Dock Companies, for which

I have been engineer. The Commercial Road, which is between the West

India Docks and London is referred to in the report of a former

Committee on highways, as particularly well fitted for heavy traffic;

that road is seventy feet wide, and is divided into two footways, each

ten feet, and a carriage road fifty feet wide, of which twenty feet in

the middle is paved with granite. I have a section of the form of this

road (No. 1, in the annexed plan.) The East India Dock branch of the

Commercial Road is also seventy feet wide, ten feet of which is paved

with granite. I have prepared also a section of that road (No. 2, in the

plan.) The traffic upon the Commercial Road, both up and down, is very

great, and necessarily required a width of paving sufficient for two

carriages to pass upon it. I am quite sure that the expense of this road

would have been very much greater, probably much more than doubled if it

had not been paved, and that the carriage of goods would also here been

much more expensive; indeed it would have been next to impossible to

have carried the present loads upon a gravelled road. The road has been

paved for about sixteen years, and the expense of supporting it has been

small, although the stage-coaches generally, as well as almost all the

carts and waggons, go upon it; while the expense of the gravelled part

has been comparatively great. During the thirteen years that the East

India Dock branch has been paved, the paving has not cost 20_l._ in

repairs, although the waggons, each weighing about five tons, with the

whole of the East India produce, which is brought from the docks by

land, have passed all that time in one track upon it, and a great deal

of heavy country traffic for the last eight years, when a communication

was formed with the county of Essex. The advantage of paving part of a

road where the traffic is great, and the materials of making roads bad

or expensive, is not confined to improving the conveyance for heavy

goods and reducing the horses’ labour; but as the paving is always

preferred for heavy carriages, the sides of a road are left for light

carriages, and are kept in much better repair than otherwise they could

possibly be. It is not, I am sure, overstating the advantage of the

paving, but rather otherwise, to say, that taking the year through, two

horses will do more work, with the same labour to themselves, upon a

paved road than three upon a good gravelled road, if the traffic upon

the gravelled road is at all considerable, and if the effect of this, in

point of expense, is brought into figures, the saving of the expense of

carriage will be found to be very great when compared with the cost of

the paving. If the annual tonnage upon the Commercial Road is taken at

250,000 tons, and at the rate of only 3_s._ per ton from the Docks, it

could not upon a gravelled road be done under 4_s._ 6_d._ say however

4_s._ or 1_s._ per ton difference, making a saving of 12,500_l._, or

nearly the whole expense of the paving in one year. I think I am under

the mark in all these figures, and I am convinced therefore that the

introduction of paving would, in many cases, be productive of great

advantage, by improving the gravel road, reducing the expense of

repairs, and causing a saving of horses’ labour much beyond what there

is, I believe, any idea of. The expense of a ton of Aberdeen granite

paving-stones laid in London, or in any similar situation, including

laying, and every expense, is about 25_s._; the cost of the same weight

of gravel is from 3_s._ 6_d._ to 5_s._ The cost of granite paving, 9

inches deep, is from 8_s._ 6_d._ to 10_s._ 6_d._ per superficial yard,

or from 750_l._ to 920_l._ per mile for every yard in width. Guernsey

granite is harder and more durable than Aberdeen granite, but is more

expensive by about 10 per cent. and I think is this much better. Some

stone of very good quality from near Greenock, has been used lately upon

the Commercial Road, it is cheaper than Aberdeen, and appears to be very

durable. The requisites for forming a good paving are to have the stones

properly squared and shaped, not as wedges, but nearly as rectangular

prisms; to sort them into classes according to their sizes, so as to

prevent unequal sinking, which is always the effect of stones, or rows

of stones, of unequal sizes being mixed together; to have a foundation

properly consolidated before the road is begun to be paved, and to have

the stones laid with a close joint, the courses being kept at right

angles from the direction of the sides, and in perfectly straight lines,

the joints carefully broken, that is, so that the joint between two

stones in any one course shall not be in a line with, or opposite to a

joint in any of the two courses adjoining. After the stones are laid

they are to be well rammed, and such of the stones as appear to ram

loose, should be taken out and replaced by others; after this the joints

are to be filled with fine gravel, and if it can be done conveniently,

the stability of the work will be increased by well watering at night

the part that has been done during the day, and ramming it over again

next morning. The surface of the pavement is then to be covered with an

inch or so of fine gravel, that the joints may be always kept full, and

that the wheels may not come in contact with the stones while they are

at all loose in their places. Attention to these points will very much

increase both the smoothness and durability of the paving. I have found

great advantage from filling up, or, as it is called, grouting the

joints with lime-water, which finds its way into the gravel between and

under the stones, and forms the whole into a solid concreted mass. The

purpose served by the lime might also be effectually answered by mixing

a little of the borings or chippings of iron, or small scraps of iron

hoop, with the gravel used in filling up the joints of the paving. The

water would very soon create, an oxide of iron, and form the gravel into

a species of rock. I have seen a piece of rusty hoop taken from under

water, to which the gravel had so connected itself, for four or five

inches round the hoop, as not to be separated without a smart blow of a

hammer. And the cast-iron pipes which are laid in moist gravel soon

exhibit the same tendency.

It has occurred to me, as I stated to the chairman of this honourable

Committee some weeks since, that considerable improvement would be found

from paving the sides of a road, upon which the heavy traffic is great,

in both directions, and leaving the middle for light carriages, the

carmen walking upon the footpaths or sides of the road, would then be

close to their horses, without interrupting, or being in danger of

accidents from light carriages, which is the case when they are driving

upon the middle of the road; and the unpaved part being in the middle or

highest part of the road, would be more easily kept in good repair. I

have prepared a section of a road formed in this way (No. 3 in the

plan), but unless the heavy traffic in both directions is great, one

width (say ten or twelve feet, if very well paved,) will be found

sufficient; and in this case, I think the paving ought to be in the

middle of the road. The width of many of the present roads is, besides,

such, that ten or twelve feet can be spared for paving, while twice that

width would leave too little for the gravelled part. Although the first

cost of paving is so great, I do not think that any other plan can be

adopted to good and so cheap in those places where the materials got in

the neighbourhood are not sufficient for supporting the roads. A coating

of whinstone is, for instance, more durable than the gravel with which

the roads round London are made and repaired; but much less so than

paving; although the freight and carriage of the whinstone, and of the

paving-stones, which form the principal items of the expense, are nearly

the same. Scotch whinstone, or the granite rubble (that is, rough

chippings of granite,) could not, I should think, be delivered into

barges in the river, at less than from 14_s._ to 15_s._ per ton, the

freight alone being from 11_s._ to 12_s._, while the price of Aberdeen

granite, in the same situation, is only from 19_s._ to 21_s._ and 22_s._

Maidstone ragstone in the rubble state, costs about 7_s._ per ton: it is

a limestone, and much less durable than the whin. The carriage from the

river to the road, of all these, is of course the same. Flint, again, is

so much less durable than whin, that it will not bear the expense of

carriage (which may be taken at from 1_s._ 6_d._ to 2_s._ per ton per

mile) from any distance, to make it preferable to the gravel, or paving,

in point of cost, for the roads near London. A double iron rail-road, to

suit the London waggons, which some have recommended, would cost about

4,500_l._ per mile, and would be fitted for waggons only of one precise

width, and for waggons or heavy carts only; while, from the difficulty

of crossing it, it would form rather an obstacle to light carriages.

Blocks of Aberdeen granite, twelve inches wide and fifteen inches deep,

laid in the way of the wheels (as recommended by others,) would be

nearly as expensive; and the eight joints, which would be formed between

the stone and the gravel, by four rows of stone, would be found

extremely troublesome and inconvenient. Both these substitutes for

paving, therefore, though equally expensive as paving, have peculiar

disadvantages; and they have this besides, which is common to them both,

that they make no provision for preventing the great wear upon gravelled

roads, which is caused by the horses’ feet, particularly if (as is the

case in a rail-road) they are confined in one track.

Attention in the forming and repairing of roads, will in all cases do

much to compensate for the inferiority of the material used for that

purpose, of which the improvements in the general state of the highways

within the last twenty years affords the best proof. To form the road

upon a good foundation, and to keep the surface clear of water after it

is formed, are the two most essential points towards having the best

roads possible, upon a given country, and with given materials. For

obtaining the first of these objects, it is essential that the line for

the road be taken so that the foundation can be kept dry either by

avoiding low ground by raising the surface of the road above the level

of the ground on each side of it, or by drawing off the water by means

of side drains. The other object, viz. that of clearing the road of

water, is best secured by selecting a course for the road which is not

horizontally level, so that the surface of the road may in its

longitudinal section, form in some degree an inclined plane; and when

this cannot be obtained, owing to the extreme flatness of the country,

an artificial inclination may generally be made. When a road is so

formed, every wheel-track that is made, being in the line of the

inclination, becomes a channel for carrying off the water, much more

effectually than can be done by a curvature in the cross section or rise

in the middle of the road, without the danger, or other disadvantages

which necessarily attend the rounding a road much in the middle. I

consider a fall of about one inch and a half in ten feet, to be a

minimum in this case, if it is attainable without a great deal of extra

expense. It is in the knowledge of the above points, and of the

application of them in practice, that what may be called the science of

road-making consists, as the observations apply in every case. When a

road is to be formed, accurate sections of the rises and falls of the

ground should always be taken, in the same way as is done for a canal,

before the line is determined, or the levels of the road fixed upon, and

when the course and levels of the road are laid down, the derail of the

work ought to be particularly explained by a specification and plan,

describing the manner in which each particular length is to be formed

and completed.

The quantity of materials necessary to form the road depends so much

upon the soil and the nature of the materials themselves, that it is

impossible to lay down any general rules for them. The thickness ought

to be such that the greatest weight will not affect more than the

surface of the shell, and it is for this purpose chiefly, that thickness

is required, in order to spread the weight which comes upon a small part

only of the road over a large portion of the foundation. When the ground

is very soft, trees, bavins or bushes, are applied to answer the same

purpose, and to carry off the water previous to the materials of the

road being so consolidated as to form a solid body, and to be impervious

to water. Bushes are, however, not advisable to be used, unless they are

so low as always to be completely moist. When they are dry and excluded

from the air they decay in a very few years, and produce a sinking in

place of preserving the road; a thickness of chalk is useful for the

same purpose in cases where bushes are improper, the chalk mixing with

the gravel or stones becomes concreted, and presents a larger surface to

the pressure. If the material for making the roads is gravel, the common

way is to lay it as it comes from the pit, excepting the upper foot, or

18 inches or so, which is screened; but if whin or other stone is to be

used, the size of the pieces into which it is broken should decrease as

we approach the surface, the superficial coating not exceeding a cube

from 1 inch to 1½ inch. If the foundation is bad, breaking the bottom

stone into small pieces is expensive and injurious, upon the principle I

have above described, and also for the same reason that an arch formed

of whole bricks or of deep stones is to be preferred to one of the same

materials broken into smaller pieces, for in some counties the materials

will admit of the foundation of the road being considered as of the

nature of a flat arch, as well as of being supported by the strata

directly under it: but the error in laying the stone in large pieces

upon the surface is more common and more injurious. In all cases,

whether the material is gravel or hard stone, the interstices between

the pieces should be filled up solid with smaller pieces, and the

finishing made by a thin covering of very small pieces, or road-sand or

rubbish, for those interstices must be filled up before the road becomes

solid, either in this way or by a portion of the materials of the road

being ground down, which last mode occasions a waste of the material,

and keeps the road unnecessarily heavy and loose. This observation

applies to the repairing as well as the original making of roads, and

the effect of this covering, or as it is called in the country, blinding

the loose stones, is so evident, that I have often wondered to see so

little attention paid to it. If the material is soft, as some limestone,

this is less necessary, and the quantity ought never to be more than is

just sufficient for the purpose I have described. In the original making

or effectually repairing of a road, it is, I think, best that the whole

of the proposed thickness be laid on at once, for the sake of the road

as well as of the traveller; the materials of the road then form a more

solid compact mass than when they are laid in thin strata, at different

times, for the same reason that a deep arch of uniform materials is

preferable to a number of separate rings. Though I state that an

inclination in the longitudinal section of the road is always desirable

for the purpose of clearing it of water, I am not of the opinion of

those who recommend the road to be made and kept flat or level in its

cross section. The variety of opinions and practice upon this point are

very great; both extremes appear to me to be bad. A road much rounded is

dangerous, particularly if the cross section approaches towards the

segment of a circle, the slope in the case not being uniform, but

increasing rapidly from the nature of the curve, as we depart from the

middle or vertical line. The over rounding of roads is also injurious to

them, by either confining the heavy carriages to one track in the crown

of the road, or if they go upon the sides, by the great wear they

produce, from their constant tendency to move down the inclined plane,

owing to the angle which the surface of the road and the line of gravity

of the load form with each other, and as this tendency is perpendicular

to the line of draught, the labour of the horse and the wear of the

carriage wheels, are both much increased by it.

It is not altogether foreign to the subject to notice here, the error of

forming the inclination of the roadway upon bridges, in the direction of

their length, or across the river, from a section of a curve for the

whole length, rather than from two lines joined together by a curve, as

I have recommended for the cross section of a road. It is to this cause

that the very heavy pull is owing, which must have been noticed in just

getting upon a bridge, which decreases as we advance towards the middle

of the bridge, and which would not have been so much felt, had it been

spread regularly over the whole length (see No. 5, in the plan.)

The disadvantages of a flat road again are, that even if it is supposed

to continue so, it is bad in principle, by doing away the tendency which

a road ought to have, in every direction, to clear itself of water; but

as the greatest wear will always be in the middle of the road, a level

or flat road will very soon be concave; the middle of the road then

becomes the watercourse, and the consequence, if the road is upon level

ground, is, that the water and mud lie upon it, and injure the

foundation and materials; or, if otherwise, that the stones or materials

of the road are washed bare, and liable to be loosened and thrown up by

the wheels coming into contact with their exposed angular surfaces. Many

of the roads in the country afford examples of this, particularly after

heavy rains, and if the country is at all hilly.

The best form for a road, in order to avoid those evils, is,—in my

opinion, to form it, and to keep it with just a sufficient rise towards

the middle, to incline the water towards the sides; and in place of

making the whole width the section of one curve, to form it by two

straight lines, forming inclined planes, and joined by a curve towards

the middle. I have prepared a section of a road in the manner I have

described (No. 4.) and as the lines, excepting at the centre, are

straight, the section may be made to suit almost any greater or less

width, by merely extending them. The section is taken nearly from a part

of a road made under my direction in the country. The dotted line drawn

upon it shows the form I alluded to when speaking of the circular road

that ought to be avoided. I have seen ridges formed in what I thought

well formed land, much after what I would recommend for the form of a

road. The object of forming the land into ridges, raised a little in the

middle, is the same as that of raising the middle of a road to prevent

the water from settling upon it, and what is sufficient for the ploughed

land is certainly enough for a road. If the road is of good stone, four

to five inches rise in ten feet is sufficient, gravel, and other

inferior material, will allow a little more. In this section it may be

worth while to notice the situation of the hedge and ditch, or rill on

each side of the road, a more common, but I think a more dangerous and

worse way, is to form the ditch close to the road, and to plant the

quick upon a raised bank beyond it. I have dotted this mode also upon

the section. The advantage of having the hedge next the road, consists

in its greater safety to the traveller, particularly if a ditch of any

considerable depth is necessary, and in the hedge being supported in its

growth from the ground under the road, without drawing upon the farmer’s

side of the ditch; and it is I believe, this last advantage, which has

led the author of an article in the Edinburgh Farmer’s Magazine, with

whom I am acquainted, to make nearly the same observations. In a length

of road, made eight or ten years since, over a marsh, partly a bog,

considerably under high water, where, from the level of the ground, and

of the drainage, the ditches were obliged to be deep and wide, and

therefore dangerous; I ordered some cuttings of willow to be stuck into

the roadside of the ditch. In about two years they formed a blind to the

ditch, and are now so thick and strong as to be a complete security from

all danger. I may here take the liberty to say, that nothing is more

injurious to roads than the permitting high hedges and plantations near

them, their effect in keeping the rain suspended and dripping upon the

road longer than otherwise it would, and in preventing the air and sun

from drying the roads, is most destructive and very general: and as the

Commissioners or principal men of the district are often the greatest

offenders in this respect, the evil is one in which both the enactments

and the application of them require the strictest attention and

impartiality. After a road is properly made, the comfort of the

traveller and the principle of economy on the part of the road-trust,

both demand that it be not allowed to get much out of repair; the adage

of “a stitch in time,” applies particularly to the repairing of roads,

and though not universally practised, is so well known, that it is, I

presume, unnecessary to state reasons, for what no one acquainted with

the subject at all doubts. The best season for repairing roads is, I

think, the spring or very early in the summer, when the weather is

likely neither to be very wet nor dry, for both of these extremes

prevent the materials from consolidating, and therefore cause a waste of

them, and at the same time, either a heavy or a dusty road; but if done

at the time I have recommended, the roads are left in good state for the

summer, and become consolidated and hard to resist the work of the

ensuing winter.

When I remarked the great improvement in many of the highways during the

last twenty years, I by no means meant to say that they are not still

capable of much greater, or that many of them have not been much

neglected. In many districts this is notoriously the case, and when the

materials are the best, the roads are frequently the worst. There is no

road round London upon which there is more heavy country traffic, than

the first stage of the great Essex or Mile End road; and owing to the

well directed attention of the chairman of the commissioners, and of

their surveyor, there are few better roads any where, excepting in very

wet heavy weather. Indeed I do not think it possible to do much, if any

thing, in improving the superintendance and repair of that road, with

the material at present in use; for the nature of which, as well as for

the exclusion of air and sun by buildings, proper allowance ought to be

made in judging of the state of the roads near London, and when this is

done, and the great wear considered, we may find that in very many

cases, there is but little cause to find fault, and much room for

commendation. The traffic upon the Mile End road is however too much for

a gravelled road, and the expanse for repair for the first three miles

is consequently very great. The same remarks as to conduct and

attention, are merited by the commissioners of other districts, and

their gratuitous services entitle them to the thanks of the public;

while in some parts of the kingdom, including Scotland, where the

material is the very best, the roads are often in the worst condition,

and the most unpleasant to travel upon. The stone is put in large pieces

upon the road, without any covering or mixture of smaller material, and

is left to take the chance of being broke and formed into a solid, or of

tumbling loose upon the road. When a track is once formed in this

stone-heap, it is not to be expected that the horses will be easily made

to move out of it; and unless the thoroughfare is considerable, the road

in use consists sometimes for a long period, of the two deep wheel

tracks, which are always filled with water during the winter, and of the

horse’s path between them, the other parts being covered with a body of

loose stones, and rendered absolutely useless. These observations apply

to some lengths of the most frequented highways, but are more

particularly applicable to the cross roads and the parish roads. I had

the opportunity of seeing the roads in the West Highlands last autumn;

they are formed with judgement, and kept in good repair.

When the highways in a county are under the management of trustees, it

is common to divide them, and to assign a particular length to the

trustees who live near it, without employing any person in the capacity

of a surveyor. When this is the case, the state of repair depends much

upon the observation and attention of the trustee; and the change in the

state of the road often marks out the change of superintendence. A

relative of mine has given up a good deal of his time and attention to a

part of the roads in Stirlingshire, of which he is one of the trustees:

no professional man could, perhaps, do the business better; and the

effect of this attention is very visible. Instances of the same kind are

frequent, but it is not to be expected that trustees generally can both

understand, and have so great a relish for serving the public, as that

the detail of the repairs of roads, if imposed upon them, will be always

executed with the attention they require.

The case of parish roads is still worse, where the inhabitants are,

without much regard to their habits of life, obliged in their turns to

serve the annual office of surveyor of the highways. If such persons

mean to signalize themselves during their being in office, the first

step is often to undo what their predecessor has done, or has not

perfected; and the love of self and of friends determines them to make

sure while they have it in their power, that some favoured roads or

lanes are put into proper order. If the surveyor is, on the contrary, an

unwilling officer, or if the attention to his own affairs prevents him

giving his time to the duties of the office, he avoids the fine by

accepting the charge, pays the bills and wages without much knowledge of

their nature or accuracy, and one of the labourers becomes, in fact, the

road-surveyor; but in every case of annual nominations there is this

evil, that so soon as the surveyor has, by a year’s apprenticeship,

begun to know something of the nature of the business, his place is

filled by another, who comes in for the same time to take lessons at the

expense of the parish. Thus, while many simple trades require, by law,

an apprenticeship of seven years, before the person is thought qualified

to practise with his own capital, the road-surveyor is supposed fit, the

very hour he is named, for an office which requires at least as much

understanding and experience as the average of trades, and in which he

has the capital of all the parish to speculate with. For these reasons,

I have always been convinced of the propriety of an intelligent

accountable officer in each district, but I do not see to whom he can be

responsible with so great propriety, or in other words, in whom the

chief control can be so well vested, as in the gentlemen who live in the

county, who are almost daily witnesses of what is doing, and are chiefly

interested in keeping down the expenses, at the same time having their

roads in good repair.

Whether a board of roads, appointed by parliament, meeting once every

year, and forming a report of the expense and state of the roads in each

county, to be presented to parliament, with such observations as present

themselves, as to improvements, or otherwise, taken from general surveys

made by persons appointed by them, would be useful, by exciting a spirit

of emulation and attention on the part of the different trusts, every

member of this honourable Committee is as able, and perhaps more able,

to give a disinterested judgment than I am; for I conclude, that if

surveys are to be made, engineers will think they have some chance of

being selected as the most proper persons to be employed on the

occasion, under the board. The state of the roads continue to improve

throughout the kingdom. Every friend to his country will be pleased, if

the march of this improvement can be accelerated by a moderate reform,

and carried into remote corners and parishes, where it appears most to

be wanted; but I much question the propriety of such a revolution as

would lessen the interest, which, in their present situation, the

commissioners ought to feel in the repair of their roads, and the

consequence which the appointment tends to give them.

If country road-surveyors are appointed throughout the kingdom, the

nomination might be with the commissioners of the county, and if

friendship or local interest is supposed to operate too far, the

nomination, or the examination previous to election, or the _veto_ after

it, might be with the central or other board, the members of which might

be supposed not to be connected with the individual, in the same way as

pilots and the masters of men of war are examined by the elder brethren

of the Trinity House. And sub-surveyors or surveyors of parishes, might

in the same manner be appointed, or undergo an examination by the county

commissioners and county surveyor, to qualify them to be elected; for it

is to be lamented, that in cases where parishes have, from the reasons I

have mentioned, made the office of road-surveyors permanent, with a

salary: the election being popular, has fallen, not upon the candidate

who was really the best qualified, but probably upon some honest decayed

tradesman, who, having proved himself unable to manage his own business,

which he ought to have known the best, has thereby, and by his long

residence, qualified himself for managing a public business, of which he

probably knows nothing, but whether he does, or does not, rarely enters

into the consideration of the majority of the voters.

In what manner do you think the extra toll for overweight ought to be

regulated; whether by the weight, or by the number of horses used,

without regard to the weight?—I think by the weight most certainly;

unless the object is to discourage the breed of small horses, and

encourage the over-loading and straining, of horses of all sizes. The

number of horses is a very imperfect measure, or rather no measure at

all of the injury done to the roads; for a load of three tons, drawn by

one horse, injures the road as much, to say the least of it, as if two

horses were used. It is not out of place to mention the extreme

disproportion between the penalties for overweight, and the injuries

which they are meant to compensate for, or to prevent; particularly when

this over-loading is the effect of ignorance, which is almost always the

case. When the tolls are in the hands of trustees, the penalty is almost

always reduced; a proof that that fixed by law is exorbitant; but when

the tolls are farmed, and the trustees do not reserve the power of

mitigating the penalty, the poor carman has less chance of being saved

perhaps from ruin.

_Jovis, 1º die Aprilis, 1819._

Mr. _James Dean_, called in; and Examined.

What is your profession?—I am a land agent and civil engineer, and am

occasionally employed to solicit bills in parliament as an agent.

Where do you reside?—I reside in London about half the year, and the

other half in Devonshire.

As an engineer, have you had the means of becoming acquainted with the

roads of the kingdom?—About twenty years since, I had the appointment of

surveyor to the trustees of the turnpike roads from Oxford to Henley

upon Thames, and from Dorchester to Abingdon, in Berkshire; since then I

have been employed about several roads in Devonshire and Cornwall, and,

latterly, in surveying and reporting on an extensive district of the

roads in Somersetshire.

From the observations which you have made in this employment, are you

able to give the Committee any information as to the best mode of

improving the roads of the kingdom generally?—The first and most obvious

improvement is to shorten distances; but even that must be governed by

circumstances often of a local nature; a sound foundation, and the

contiguity of good stone or gravel to a road, should not be overlooked

in choosing a new line, or departing from an old one. In forming a new

line in a level country, the transverse section should approach as near

as possible to the form of the accompanying sketch No. 1, and in a hilly

country to that of No. 2; in the former, the water from one half the

road would be carried into a ditch on the field side, and that of the

other half into a ditch between the footpath and hedge-bank. When it is

necessary to form a road on the side of a hill, the ditch should be on

the higher side of the road, where it will receive the water falling

from the high ground, and so keep the foundation of the road dry. I have

figured the breadths of a good average turnpike road on sketch No. 1,

but the breadth will frequently depend upon circumstances of a local

nature. Near to great towns, it would be highly advantageous if the

centre of the road, for about twelve feet in width, were to be paved

with hard well-squared stones, nine inches deep, and the sides made with

hard rubble stones or gravel. I need scarcely mention, that in applying

the materials to a new line of road, the stones should be broken into

pieces of an uniform size, as near as may be; that the larger should be

laid of nearly an equal depth over the whole surface of the road, and

the smaller, mixed with gravel, should be placed upon them. The

repairing of roads should be conducted in the same manner as far as it

is practicable; but, after all, the only sure way of getting good roads

is, for the trustees to employ men of education and science as their

surveyors. In a few instances, where this has been done, the best

consequences have resulted, and in no case is if more conspicuous than

in the neighbourhood of Bristol, where Mr. MᶜAdam is the surveyor.

Will not a consequent impediment arise to the employment of men of

education and of superior ability as surveyors, from the smallness of

the funds upon small trusts or districts?—For that reason, I would

recommend the consolidation of the several trusts, in each county, into

one general trust, under the authority of one general act of parliament,

leaving the adoption, however, of the acts to the discretion of the

several trusts respectively in each county, making it compulsory only on

the minority, at the expiration of a time to be limited, when a majority

in amount of toll shall call for its adoption, and after insertion in

the provincial papers and London Gazette.

Supposing parliament to adopt your suggestion as to the passing of such

an act, and supposing that afterwards the trusts of none of the counties

should adopt it as a general trust, would there be any objection to the

act being so framed as to admit of adoption by such of the trusts as

might prefer it to incurring the expense of a renewal of their then

local acts?—I do not think there would be any well founded objection to

an act made capable of being so applied; and I am of opinion, that the

making it optional on trustees to adopt it or not, would render the

measure extremely popular, and in the end be highly beneficial to the

country.

Have you not lately prepared a bill for the trustees of an extensive

trust in Somersetshire, including in it nearly all the improvements

which you would recommend to be introduced into a general turnpike

act?—I have prepared such a bill; and it was intended that the same

should have been brought before parliament in the present session, but

the clerk to the trustees having omitted to put the notice required by

the standing orders of parliament upon the sessions-house door, at the

Michaelmas sessions, the trustees resolved to defer presenting their

petition until the next session.

In what respect does the bill which you have prepared differ from the

generality of local turnpike acts?—Many of the clauses of the bill are

not so remarkable for originality, as their combination is calculated to

produce extensive benefit to the country, by conferring larger powers

than have heretofore been given to any one body of trustees; among

others, it empowers the trustees to appoint committees, and make

bye-laws; it binds them to provide a fund for buying up outstanding

securities; and to pay off the further sums proposed to be raised under

the new act, within the term of the act; the tolls on wheel carriages

are made referrible to the breadth of the fellies, and description of

wheel, and to the weight drawn, rather than to the number of horses,

drawing, and are founded on a statement which I had the honour of

delivering to a Committee of the House of Commons in 1809. The standing

orders of parliament require that on or before the 30th of September

next, preceding any application to parliament for any Turnpike Act, a

plan &c. of the roads proposed to be made or altered, shall be deposited

with the clerk of the peace. It often happens, that in the Committee

alterations are made in the proposed line, when the plan deposited

becomes mere waste paper; the seventy sixth clause of this bill provides

for the depositing of a plan, &c. last determined upon, with the clerk

of the peace, signed by the Speaker, and being an authentic document can

be referred to with safety. The bill also provides for the making of

commodious footpaths by the sides of the roads. And as the paving,

cleansing, lighting, watching, &c. of the liberty or borough of * * * *

is placed in the trustees of the roads, the trustees are empowered to

rate the inhabitants, and are also empowered to light the streets, &c.

with gas, and to allow gas to be taken from their mains for the lighting

of private dwellings, manufactories, &c.; so that in all probability the

latter indulgence may pay the greater part, if not the whole, of the

expense of lighting the public lamps. The ninety-third clause empowers

the trustees to pave, light and watch any town, village or place

through, which the roads pass, upon application of two-thirds of the

inhabitants, and is in my view extremely important.

Have you any further suggestions to offer to the Committee that would

tend to the improvement of the roads, or the laws relating to them?—Upon

the subject of turnpike roads, and of wheel-carriages generally, I am of

opinion that such a spirit of improvement has gone forth as, with the

assistance of judicious legislative enactments, will in a few years

carry both to a state of very great perfection; but I cannot close these

remarks without observing on the injurious effect which the large fees

paid to the higher officers of both houses of parliament has upon the

growing improvements of the country, by preventing a recurrence to

parliament to remove obstacles which the prejudice of some will not, and

the incapacity of others cannot permit. The periodical expenses of

renewing turnpike acts is really enormous, when it is considered that

between the fees of parliament on the one hand, and a two month’s

residence in London of the country solicitor, to manage the business,

besides a parliamentary agent in town to assist him, four or five

hundred pounds are soon swallowed up; but I also feel it right to

suggest, that if parliament would allow affidavits to be made before two

magistrates in the county, of the notices directed by the standing

orders of parliament, having been duly given, of plans and of books of

reference being lodged with the clerk of the peace, and of the names of

the persons assenting to, dissenting from, or being neuter in respect of

any proposed new road, the solicitor need not remain in town more than

three days, and the expenses, except in cases of opposition, need not

exceed 200_l._

Would you, as a parliamentary agent, undertake to prepare and conduct an

ordinary road bill through parliament for 200_l._, to include all

expenses, where there is no opposition?—I would undertake any number at

that sum, provided the proofs before mentioned were admitted to be made

by affidavit in the county, in like manner as the proofs are now given

to facilitate the passing of inclosure bills.

_Jovis, 6º die Maii, 1819._

_Thomas Telford_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

You are, I believe, a civil engineer?

Yes, I am.

The roads which have been formed by direction of the Parliamentary

Commissioners for the Holyhead road, and under your management, having

been described to this Committee as being very perfect, will you have

the goodness to state your opinion as to the present condition of the

different turnpike roads of the kingdom, and what improvements you would

recommend in their direction and management. In the first place, state

to the Committee in what respect you consider the roads of the kingdom

at present to be defective, either in their formation or management?—

With regard to the roads in England and Wales, they are in general very

defective, both as to their direction and inclinations, they are

frequently carried over hills, which might be avoided by passing along

the adjacent valleys; at present the inclinations are inconveniently

steep, and long continued. I might instance many principal lines, over

which I have had frequent occasion to travel: I shall select the great

road from Holyhead, through North Wales to Shrewsbury; and from thence

by Birmingham and Coventry to London. On the Welsh portion of it, those

parts which have been improved under the direction of the Parliamentary

Commissioners for the Holyhead road, the inclinations were formerly (in

many instances) as much as one in six, seven, eight, nine, and ten, the

width at the same time frequently not exceeding twelve feet, without

protection on the lower side, and the roadway itself of improper

construction. The improvements which have lately been made in North

Wales, I beg leave to submit as models for roads through hilly

countries, although these improvements have been made through the most

difficult and precipitous district of that country, the longitudinal

inclinations are in general less than one in thirty; in one instance,

for a considerable distance, there was no avoiding one in twenty-two,

and in another, for about two hundred yards, one in seventeen; but in

these two cases, the surface of the roadway being made peculiarly smooth

and hard, no inconvenience is experienced by wheeled carriages. On flat

ground, the breadth of the roadway is thirty-two feet, where there is

side cutting not exceeding three feet, the breadth is twenty-eight, and

along any steep ground and precipices, it is twenty-two, all clear

within the fences; the sides are protected by stone walls, breast and

retaining walls and parapets; great pains have been bestowed on the

cross drains, also the draining the ground, and likewise in constructing

firm and substantial foundations for the metalled part of the roadway.

From Shrewsbury upwards, the road at present is encumbered with many

hills, all of which might be avoided, or much improved. There is a very

long one between Shrewsbury and Heygate, several between that point and

Shiffnal, two between Shiffnal and Wolverhampton, one between

Wolverhampton and Birmingham, viz. at Wednesbury, &c. Maiden Hill,

between Birmingham and Coventry; Braunston Hill, between Dunchurch and

Daventry; a continued succession of hills between Daventry and

Towcester; afterwards the well-known Brickhill and Hockliffe hills,

besides the very circuitous and imperfect road between South Mims and

Barnet.

Another instance I would beg leave to mention to the Committee, is the

road between the towns of Shrewsbury and Worcester, on the way to Bath,

which consists of nearly a succession of very high and inconveniently

steep hills, although very easy inclinations might be obtained by

passing along the side of the river Severn.

I have mentioned these two instances as examples of the present

imperfections of main roads, and it is quite evident they might all be

readily avoided by lines of new road, easily to be accomplished. These,

I presume, the Committee will admit are sufficient to show the present

state of many other roads in the kingdom, they not having been selected

as more particularly defective than others.

The shape, or cross sections and drainage of the roads, are quite as

defective as the general direction and inclinations; there has been no

attention paid to constructing a good and solid foundation for the

roadway; the materials, whether of gravel or stones, have seldom been

sufficiently selected and arranged; and they lie so promiscuously upon

the road as to render it inconvenient to travel upon, and promote its

speedy destruction. The shape of the road, or cross section of the

surface, is frequently hollow in the middle; the sides encumbered with

great banks of mud, which have accumulated sometimes to the height of

six, seven and eight feet; these prevent the water from falling into the

side-drains; they also throw a considerable shade upon the road itself,

and are gross and unpardonable nuisances. The materials, instead of

being cleansed of the mud and soil with which they are mixed in their

native state, are laid promiscuously upon the road; this, in the first

instance, creates an unnecessary expense of carriage to the road, and

afterwards nearly as much in removing it, besides inconvenience and

obstruction to travelling; the materials should therefore be cleansed on

the spot where they are procured, from every particle of earth, by

screening, or if necessary, even by washing; some additional expense

might in the first instance be incurred by these operations, but it

would be found by much the most economical and advantageous mode in the

end. In all cases, materials in their native state are composed of

particles and pieces of different sizes, it is most important that those

should be separated, and that the largest size should be reduced to not

more than six or eight ounces in weight, and laid in the bottom part of

the road; those that are under that weight or size may be laid on the

top or surface of the road; the surface itself should be made with a

very gentle curve in its cross section, just sufficient to permit the

water to pass from the centre towards the sides of the road, the

declivity may increase towards the sides, and the general section form a

very flat ellipsis, so that the side, at the time, should (upon a road

of about thirty feet in width) be nine inches below the surface in the

middle. Connected with the cross section are the side drains which are

to receive the water, and which drains, in every instance, I

particularly recommend to be on the field side of the fence, with

apertures in that fence for the water to pass from the sides of the road

into them.

The fences themselves on each side form a very material and important

subject, with regard to the perfection of roads; they should in no

instance be more than five feet in height above the centre of the road,

and all trees which stand within twenty yards from the centre of it

ought to be removed. I am sure that twenty per cent. of the expense of

improving and repairing roads is incurred by the improper state of the

fences and trees along the sides of it, on the sunny side more

particularly; this must be evident to any person who will notice the

state of a road which is much shaded by high fences and trees, compared

to the other parts of the road which are exposed to the sun and air. My

observations, with regard to fences and trees, apply when the road is on

the same level as the adjacent fields; but in many cases, on the most

frequented roads of England, more stuff has been removed from time to

time than was put on; the surface of the road is consequently sunk into

a trough or channel from three to six feet below the surface of the

fields on each side; here all attempts at drainage, or even common

repairs, seem to be quite out of the question; and by much the most

judicious and economical mode will be to remove the whole road into the

field which is on the sunny side of it. In cases where a road is made

upon ground where there are many springs, it is absolutely necessary to

make a number of under and cross drains to collect the water and conduct

it into the aforesaid side-drains, which I have recommended to be made

on the field side of the fences.

In constructing the bottom part of a road, (which would, of course, be

made of an elliptical form) if it is upon clay, or other elastic

substance, which would retain water, I would recommend to cover the

whole bottom of the road with vegetable soil, in cases where the natural

shape of the ground admits; I would not remove the original surface, and

where there are inequalities I would fill them up with vegetable soil,

so as to cut off all connexion with clay. Where gravel is the material

to complete the road with, I have already mentioned, that it ought to be

completely cleansed of every particle of clay or earthy substance, and

its different sizes ought to be selected and arranged by means of

riddling or washing; in the use of the riddle, the particles of earth or

clay adhere so much to the stones that it frequently requires to be

exposed to the sun, air, and frost, for several months, and then riddled

over again. In this gravel, the stones are of different sizes and

different shapes; all those that are round ought to be broken with a

small hammer, and in mentioning hammers, I beg leave to draw the

attention of the Committee to their weight, shape and manner of using,

which is of much more importance than any one can conceive who has not

had much experience in road-making; the difference in managing this

operation being not less than ten per cent. and is, besides, of equal

importance towards the perfection of the road; the size and weight of

the hammer I would apportion to the size and weight of the stones, and

the stones should be broken upon the heap, not on the ground; it must be

evident that using round stones will be the means of deranging the

position of those near them, and of grinding them to pieces.

Are you of opinion that the gravel which is found in the pits in the

neighbourhood of London is calculated for making roads capable of

bearing the heavy weights which the great traffic round London occasions

to be used upon them?—I am of opinion that the materials in the whole

valley or plain around London being entirely silicious, or flints, and

easily ground, to dust, are very improper. This must be evident to every

person who travels near London in any direction.

Are you of opinion that it would be advisable or practicable to procure

from any particular part of the country, either by canal, or by river

conveyance, better materials, so as to form perfect roads, without the

necessity of paving them?—That those materials could be procured both by

the canals; and by sea is evident; but I am satisfied that the most

economical and preferable mode would be by means of paving.

Do you consider that it would be advisable to pave the whole of the

roads, or that the paving of the centre or sides, as has been

recommended by some witnesses, would be sufficient?—I apprehend that the

paving a proper width in the centre would be quite sufficient, gravel

might be proper enough for the sides, upon the same principle that we,

in all new roads which are constructed, make use of metalling, or broken

stones on the middle part of the road, for about from sixteen to

eighteen or twenty feet in breadth, and leave the sides gravelled and

kept dry; this, in general, forms a very perfect road.

Is there any principle which you would think proper to recommend in

regard to the shape of the stones to be used in paving roads?—I am of

opinion that the general shape of the stones at present used for paving,

and the modes of distributing them are very imperfect, the lower part of

the stones being of a triangular wedge-like shape, which, instead of

enabling them to resist the weights which come upon them; easily

penetrate into the substratum; the stones are also broken of an unequal

size. The remedies for these defects are obvious, they should be as

nearly as possible of a cubical form, its lower bed having an equal

surface with its upper face; they should be selected as nearly as

possible of an equal size, and they should never be of great length on

the face.

In quarrying and preparing the stones would there be any additional

expense in forming them into the cubical shape now recommended?—There

would certainly be an additional expense in the preparation, because

there would be more work required in the dressing, and many stones must

be rejected which are now used; but I think the additional expense would

be very well bestowed.

Are you of opinion that great injury is done to turnpike roads by the

heavy weights carried in waggons upon them?—I am.

Are you of opinion that any breadth of wheels for those waggons will

justify the present exemption from tolls?—It certainly ought not.

In what manner would you recommend that the tolls should be apportioned

to the weights carried by waggons on those roads?—I am of opinion that

the most advisable mode would be to apportion the tolls to the weight

carried on each wheel, without reference to the breadth, provided it is

not allowed to be less than four inches.

For the purpose of assessing the tolls in this instance would it not be

necessary that the waggon should be weighed at every turnpike

gate?—There ought to be a power to do it, but there might be a check by

means of toll tickets, similar to what is done upon navigable canals.

With a view of establishing good roads generally throughout the kingdom,

and of keeping them in repair upon the most economical plan, what

limitation would you propose as to the actual weight each carriage

should be allowed to carry?—I should think it should never exceed four

tons, which should be a ton upon each wheel; when it exceeds that weight

the best materials which can be procured for road-making must be

deranged and ground to pieces.

_Martis, 11º die Maii, 1819._

Mr. _Robert Perry_, called in; and Examined.

You hold a situation in the Post-office?—Yes, under Mr. Johnson,

inspector of the mails in the Post-office.

Since the examination of Mr. Johnson before this Committee, has the

Post-office received any further report on the state of any of the roads

near the Metropolis?—Yes; one that is between Staines and Bagshot, which

I have brought with me.

[_Delivered in, and read:_]

“State of the Turnpike Road between Staines and Bagshot, May 4th, 1819.

From Staines Bridge to Egham the form of the road has been considerably

altered for the better, with plenty of watercourses and arched drains:

through Egham town the dirt has been entirely removed, and a very

plentiful supply of well-sifted gravel laid on, which will in a short

time make a good hard road. The hill likewise has recently been covered

with a thick coat of good stones, which will require a little time to

cement; from thence the road is greatly improved; the sides are pared

down, and kept particularly clean.

At Virginia Water every thing appears to have been done to the hills,

that the time and sandy nature of the soil would permit; it is now in a

good form, and level.

From Virginia Water Hill, by Broom Hill Hut, the road has been well

scraped, the watercourses opened, and the sides kept clean, and is in a

very good state all the way to Bagshot.

(Signed) _Samuel Maddocks_.”