Chapter Ten: Interest and Discipline

1. The Meaning of the Terms. We have already noticed the difference in

the attitude of a spectator and of an agent or participant. The former

is indifferent to what is going on; one result is just as good as

another, since each is just something to look at. The latter is bound

up with what is going on; its outcome makes a difference to him. His

fortunes are more or less at stake in the issue of events. Consequently

he does whatever he can to influence the direction present occurrences

take. One is like a man in a prison cell watching the rain out of the

window; it is all the same to him. The other is like a man who has

planned an outing for the next day which continuing rain will frustrate.

He cannot, to be sure, by his present reactions affect to-morrow's

weather, but he may take some steps which will influence future

happenings, if only to postpone the proposed picnic. If a man sees a

carriage coming which may run over him, if he cannot stop its movement,

he can at least get out of the way if he foresees the consequence

in time. In many instances, he can intervene even more directly. The

attitude of a participant in the course of affairs is thus a double

one: there is solicitude, anxiety concerning future consequences, and a

tendency to act to assure better, and avert worse, consequences. There

are words which denote this attitude: concern, interest. These words

suggest that a person is bound up with the possibilities inhering in

objects; that he is accordingly on the lookout for what they are likely

to do to him; and that, on the basis of his expectation or foresight,

he is eager to act so as to give things one turn rather than another.

Interest and aims, concern and purpose, are necessarily connected. Such

words as aim, intent, end, emphasize the results which are wanted and

striven for; they take for granted the personal attitude of solicitude

and attentive eagerness. Such words as interest, affection, concern,

motivation, emphasize the bearing of what is foreseen upon the

individual's fortunes, and his active desire to act to secure a possible

result. They take for granted the objective changes. But the difference

is but one of emphasis; the meaning that is shaded in one set of words

is illuminated in the other. What is anticipated is objective and

impersonal; to-morrow's rain; the possibility of being run over. But

for an active being, a being who partakes of the consequences instead of

standing aloof from them, there is at the same time a personal response.

The difference imaginatively foreseen makes a present difference,

which finds expression in solicitude and effort. While such words

as affection, concern, and motive indicate an attitude of personal

preference, they are always attitudes toward objects--toward what is

foreseen. We may call the phase of objective foresight intellectual, and

the phase of personal concern emotional and volitional, but there is no

separation in the facts of the situation.

Such a separation could exist only if the personal attitudes ran their

course in a world by themselves. But they are always responses to

what is going on in the situation of which they are a part, and their

successful or unsuccessful expression depends upon their interaction

with other changes. Life activities flourish and fail only in connection

with changes of the environment. They are literally bound up with these

changes; our desires, emotions, and affections are but various ways in

which our doings are tied up with the doings of things and persons about

us. Instead of marking a purely personal or subjective realm, separated

from the objective and impersonal, they indicate the non-existence of

such a separate world. They afford convincing evidence that changes in

things are not alien to the activities of a self, and that the career

and welfare of the self are bound up with the movement of persons and

things. Interest, concern, mean that self and world are engaged with

each other in a developing situation.

The word interest, in its ordinary usage, expresses (i) the whole state

of active development, (ii) the objective results that are foreseen and

wanted, and (iii) the personal emotional inclination.

(I) An occupation, employment, pursuit, business is often referred to

as an interest. Thus we say that a man's interest is politics, or

journalism, or philanthropy, or archaeology, or collecting Japanese

prints, or banking.

(ii) By an interest we also mean the point at which an object touches

or engages a man; the point where it influences him. In some legal

transactions a man has to prove "interest" in order to have a standing

at court. He has to show that some proposed step concerns his affairs.

A silent partner has an interest in a business, although he takes no

active part in its conduct because its prosperity or decline affects his

profits and liabilities.

(iii) When we speak of a man as interested in this or that the emphasis

falls directly upon his personal attitude. To be interested is to be

absorbed in, wrapped up in, carried away by, some object. To take an

interest is to be on the alert, to care about, to be attentive. We say

of an interested person both that he has lost himself in some affair and

that he has found himself in it. Both terms express the engrossment of

the self in an object.

When the place of interest in education is spoken of in a depreciatory

way, it will be found that the second of the meanings mentioned is first

exaggerated and then isolated. Interest is taken to mean merely the

effect of an object upon personal advantage or disadvantage, success or

failure. Separated from any objective development of affairs, these are

reduced to mere personal states of pleasure or pain. Educationally, it

then follows that to attach importance to interest means to attach some

feature of seductiveness to material otherwise indifferent; to secure

attention and effort by offering a bribe of pleasure. This procedure is

properly stigmatized as "soft" pedagogy; as a "soup-kitchen" theory of

education.

But the objection is based upon the fact--or assumption--that the forms

of skill to be acquired and the subject matter to be appropriated have

no interest on their own account: in other words, they are supposed to

be irrelevant to the normal activities of the pupils. The remedy is not

in finding fault with the doctrine of interest, any more than it is to

search for some pleasant bait that may be hitched to the alien material.

It is to discover objects and modes of action, which are connected with

present powers. The function of this material in engaging activity and

carrying it on consistently and continuously is its interest. If the

material operates in this way, there is no call either to hunt for

devices which will make it interesting or to appeal to arbitrary,

semi-coerced effort.

The word interest suggests, etymologically, what is between,--that

which connects two things otherwise distant. In education, the distance

covered may be looked at as temporal. The fact that a process takes

time to mature is so obvious a fact that we rarely make it explicit. We

overlook the fact that in growth there is ground to be covered between

an initial stage of process and the completing period; that there is

something intervening. In learning, the present powers of the pupil are

the initial stage; the aim of the teacher represents the remote limit.

Between the two lie means--that is middle conditions:--acts to be

performed; difficulties to be overcome; appliances to be used. Only

through them, in the literal time sense, will the initial activities

reach a satisfactory consummation.

These intermediate conditions are of interest precisely because the

development of existing activities into the foreseen and desired end

depends upon them. To be means for the achieving of present tendencies,

to be "between" the agent and his end, to be of interest, are different

names for the same thing. When material has to be made interesting,

it signifies that as presented, it lacks connection with purposes and

present power: or that if the connection be there, it is not perceived.

To make it interesting by leading one to realize the connection that

exists is simply good sense; to make it interesting by extraneous

and artificial inducements deserves all the bad names which have been

applied to the doctrine of interest in education.

So much for the meaning of the term interest. Now for that of

discipline. Where an activity takes time, where many means and obstacles

lie between its initiation and completion, deliberation and persistence

are required. It is obvious that a very large part of the everyday

meaning of will is precisely the deliberate or conscious disposition

to persist and endure in a planned course of action in spite of

difficulties and contrary solicitations. A man of strong will, in

the popular usage of the words, is a man who is neither fickle nor

half-hearted in achieving chosen ends. His ability is executive; that

is, he persistently and energetically strives to execute or carry out

his aims. A weak will is unstable as water.

Clearly there are two factors in will. One has to do with the foresight

of results, the other with the depth of hold the foreseen outcome has

upon the person.

(I) Obstinacy is persistence but it is not strength of volition.

Obstinacy may be mere animal inertia and insensitiveness. A man keeps

on doing a thing just because he has got started, not because of any

clearly thought-out purpose. In fact, the obstinate man generally

declines (although he may not be quite aware of his refusal) to make

clear to himself what his proposed end is; he has a feeling that if

he allowed himself to get a clear and full idea of it, it might not

be worth while. Stubbornness shows itself even more in reluctance to

criticize ends which present themselves than it does in persistence and

energy in use of means to achieve the end. The really executive man is

a man who ponders his ends, who makes his ideas of the results of his

actions as clear and full as possible. The people we called weak-willed

or self-indulgent always deceive themselves as to the consequences of

their acts. They pick out some feature which is agreeable and neglect

all attendant circumstances. When they begin to act, the disagreeable

results they ignored begin to show themselves. They are discouraged,

or complain of being thwarted in their good purpose by a hard fate, and

shift to some other line of action. That the primary difference between

strong and feeble volition is intellectual, consisting in the degree

of persistent firmness and fullness with which consequences are thought

out, cannot be over-emphasized.

(ii) There is, of course, such a thing as a speculative tracing out

of results. Ends are then foreseen, but they do not lay deep hold of

a person. They are something to look at and for curiosity to play

with rather than something to achieve. There is no such thing as

over-intellectuality, but there is such a thing as a one-sided

intellectuality. A person "takes it out" as we say in considering the

consequences of proposed lines of action. A certain flabbiness of fiber

prevents the contemplated object from gripping him and engaging him in

action. And most persons are naturally diverted from a proposed course

of action by unusual, unforeseen obstacles, or by presentation of

inducements to an action that is directly more agreeable.

A person who is trained to consider his actions, to undertake them

deliberately, is in so far forth disciplined. Add to this ability

a power to endure in an intelligently chosen course in face of

distraction, confusion, and difficulty, and you have the essence of

discipline. Discipline means power at command; mastery of the resources

available for carrying through the action undertaken. To know what one

is to do and to move to do it promptly and by use of the requisite means

is to be disciplined, whether we are thinking of an army or a mind.

Discipline is positive. To cow the spirit, to subdue inclination, to

compel obedience, to mortify the flesh, to make a subordinate perform an

uncongenial task--these things are or are not disciplinary according as

they do or do not tend to the development of power to recognize what one

is about and to persistence in accomplishment.

It is hardly necessary to press the point that interest and discipline

are connected, not opposed.

(i) Even the more purely intellectual phase of trained

power--apprehension of what one is doing as exhibited in

consequences--is not possible without interest. Deliberation will be

perfunctory and superficial where there is no interest. Parents and

teachers often complain--and correctly--that children "do not want

to hear, or want to understand." Their minds are not upon the subject

precisely because it does not touch them; it does not enter into their

concerns. This is a state of things that needs to be remedied, but the

remedy is not in the use of methods which increase indifference and

aversion. Even punishing a child for inattention is one way of trying to

make him realize that the matter is not a thing of complete unconcern;

it is one way of arousing "interest," or bringing about a sense of

connection. In the long run, its value is measured by whether it

supplies a mere physical excitation to act in the way desired by the

adult or whether it leads the child "to think"--that is, to reflect upon

his acts and impregnate them with aims.

(ii) That interest is requisite for executive persistence is even more

obvious. Employers do not advertise for workmen who are not interested

in what they are doing. If one were engaging a lawyer or a doctor, it

would never occur to one to reason that the person engaged would stick

to his work more conscientiously if it was so uncongenial to him that he

did it merely from a sense of obligation. Interest measures--or rather

is--the depth of the grip which the foreseen end has upon one, moving

one to act for its realization.

2. The Importance of the Idea of Interest in Education. Interest

represents the moving force of objects--whether perceived or presented

in imagination--in any experience having a purpose. In the concrete,

the value of recognizing the dynamic place of interest in an educative

development is that it leads to considering individual children in their

specific capabilities, needs, and preferences. One who recognizes the

importance of interest will not assume that all minds work in the same

way because they happen to have the same teacher and textbook. Attitudes

and methods of approach and response vary with the specific appeal

the same material makes, this appeal itself varying with difference of

natural aptitude, of past experience, of plan of life, and so on. But

the facts of interest also supply considerations of general value to the

philosophy of education. Rightly understood, they put us on our guard

against certain conceptions of mind and of subject matter which have

had great vogue in philosophic thought in the past, and which exercise

a serious hampering influence upon the conduct of instruction and

discipline. Too frequently mind is set over the world of things and

facts to be known; it is regarded as something existing in isolation,

with mental states and operations that exist independently. Knowledge is

then regarded as an external application of purely mental existences

to the things to be known, or else as a result of the impressions which

this outside subject matter makes on mind, or as a combination of the

two. Subject matter is then regarded as something complete in itself;

it is just something to be learned or known, either by the voluntary

application of mind to it or through the impressions it makes on mind.

The facts of interest show that these conceptions are mythical. Mind

appears in experience as ability to respond to present stimuli on the

basis of anticipation of future possible consequences, and with a view

to controlling the kind of consequences that are to take place. The

things, the subject matter known, consist of whatever is recognized

as having a bearing upon the anticipated course of events, whether

assisting or retarding it. These statements are too formal to be very

intelligible. An illustration may clear up their significance. You are

engaged in a certain occupation, say writing with a typewriter. If you

are an expert, your formed habits take care of the physical movements

and leave your thoughts free to consider your topic. Suppose, however,

you are not skilled, or that, even if you are, the machine does not work

well. You then have to use intelligence. You do not wish to strike the

keys at random and let the consequences be what they may; you wish to

record certain words in a given order so as to make sense. You attend to

the keys, to what you have written, to your movements, to the ribbon

or the mechanism of the machine. Your attention is not distributed

indifferently and miscellaneously to any and every detail. It is

centered upon whatever has a bearing upon the effective pursuit of

your occupation. Your look is ahead, and you are concerned to note

the existing facts because and in so far as they are factors in the

achievement of the result intended. You have to find out what your

resources are, what conditions are at command, and what the difficulties

and obstacles are. This foresight and this survey with reference to

what is foreseen constitute mind. Action that does not involve such a

forecast of results and such an examination of means and hindrances

is either a matter of habit or else it is blind. In neither case is

it intelligent. To be vague and uncertain as to what is intended and

careless in observation of conditions of its realization is to be, in

that degree, stupid or partially intelligent.

If we recur to the case where mind is not concerned with the physical

manipulation of the instruments but with what one intends to write, the

case is the same. There is an activity in process; one is taken up with

the development of a theme. Unless one writes as a phonograph talks,

this means intelligence; namely, alertness in foreseeing the various

conclusions to which present data and considerations are tending,

together with continually renewed observation and recollection to

get hold of the subject matter which bears upon the conclusions to be

reached. The whole attitude is one of concern with what is to be, and

with what is so far as the latter enters into the movement toward the

end. Leave out the direction which depends upon foresight of possible

future results, and there is no intelligence in present behavior. Let

there be imaginative forecast but no attention to the conditions upon

which its attainment depends, and there is self-deception or idle

dreaming--abortive intelligence.

If this illustration is typical, mind is not a name for something

complete by itself; it is a name for a course of action in so far as

that is intelligently directed; in so far, that is to say, as aims,

ends, enter into it, with selection of means to further the attainment

of aims. Intelligence is not a peculiar possession which a person owns;

but a person is intelligent in so far as the activities in which he

plays a part have the qualities mentioned. Nor are the activities

in which a person engages, whether intelligently or not, exclusive

properties of himself; they are something in which he engages and

partakes. Other things, the independent changes of other things and

persons, cooperate and hinder. The individual's act may be initial in

a course of events, but the outcome depends upon the interaction of

his response with energies supplied by other agencies. Conceive mind as

anything but one factor partaking along with others in the production of

consequences, and it becomes meaningless.

The problem of instruction is thus that of finding material which will

engage a person in specific activities having an aim or purpose of

moment or interest to him, and dealing with things not as gymnastic

appliances but as conditions for the attainment of ends. The remedy for

the evils attending the doctrine of formal discipline previously

spoken of, is not to be found by substituting a doctrine of specialized

disciplines, but by reforming the notion of mind and its training.

Discovery of typical modes of activity, whether play or useful

occupations, in which individuals are concerned, in whose outcome they

recognize they have something at stake, and which cannot be carried

through without reflection and use of judgment to select material of

observation and recollection, is the remedy. In short, the root of the

error long prevalent in the conception of training of mind consists in

leaving out of account movements of things to future results in which

an individual shares, and in the direction of which observation,

imagination, and memory are enlisted. It consists in regarding mind as

complete in itself, ready to be directly applied to a present material.

In historic practice the error has cut two ways. On one hand, it has

screened and protected traditional studies and methods of teaching

from intelligent criticism and needed revisions. To say that they are

"disciplinary" has safeguarded them from all inquiry. It has not been

enough to show that they were of no use in life or that they did

not really contribute to the cultivation of the self. That they were

"disciplinary" stifled every question, subdued every doubt, and removed

the subject from the realm of rational discussion. By its nature, the

allegation could not be checked up. Even when discipline did not accrue

as matter of fact, when the pupil even grew in laxity of application and

lost power of intelligent self-direction, the fault lay with him, not

with the study or the methods of teaching. His failure was but proof

that he needed more discipline, and thus afforded a reason for retaining

the old methods. The responsibility was transferred from the educator to

the pupil because the material did not have to meet specific tests; it

did not have to be shown that it fulfilled any particular need or served

any specific end. It was designed to discipline in general, and if it

failed, it was because the individual was unwilling to be disciplined.

In the other direction, the tendency was towards a negative conception

of discipline, instead of an identification of it with growth in

constructive power of achievement. As we have already seen, will

means an attitude toward the future, toward the production of possible

consequences, an attitude involving effort to foresee clearly and

comprehensively the probable results of ways of acting, and an active

identification with some anticipated consequences. Identification

of will, or effort, with mere strain, results when a mind is set up,

endowed with powers that are only to be applied to existing material. A

person just either will or will not apply himself to the matter in hand.

The more indifferent the subject matter, the less concern it has for the

habits and preferences of the individual, the more demand there is

for an effort to bring the mind to bear upon it--and hence the more

discipline of will. To attend to material because there is something

to be done in which the person is concerned is not disciplinary in this

view; not even if it results in a desirable increase of constructive

power. Application just for the sake of application, for the sake of

training, is alone disciplinary. This is more likely to occur if the

subject matter presented is uncongenial, for then there is no motive

(so it is supposed) except the acknowledgment of duty or the value of

discipline. The logical result is expressed with literal truth in the

words of an American humorist: "It makes no difference what you teach a

boy so long as he doesn't like it."

The counterpart of the isolation of mind from activities dealing with

objects to accomplish ends is isolation of the subject matter to be

learned. In the traditional schemes of education, subject matter means

so much material to be studied. Various branches of study represent so

many independent branches, each having its principles of arrangement

complete within itself. History is one such group of facts; algebra

another; geography another, and so on till we have run through the

entire curriculum. Having a ready-made existence on their own account,

their relation to mind is exhausted in what they furnish it to acquire.

This idea corresponds to the conventional practice in which the program

of school work, for the day, month, and successive years, consists

of "studies" all marked off from one another, and each supposed to be

complete by itself--for educational purposes at least.

Later on a chapter is devoted to the special consideration of the

meaning of the subject matter of instruction. At this point, we need

only to say that, in contrast with the traditional theory, anything

which intelligence studies represents things in the part which they

play in the carrying forward of active lines of interest. Just as one

"studies" his typewriter as part of the operation of putting it to use

to effect results, so with any fact or truth. It becomes an object of

study--that is, of inquiry and reflection--when it figures as a factor

to be reckoned with in the completion of a course of events in which one

is engaged and by whose outcome one is affected. Numbers are not objects

of study just because they are numbers already constituting a branch of

learning called mathematics, but because they represent qualities and

relations of the world in which our action goes on, because they are

factors upon which the accomplishment of our purposes depends. Stated

thus broadly, the formula may appear abstract. Translated into details,

it means that the act of learning or studying is artificial and

ineffective in the degree in which pupils are merely presented with

a lesson to be learned. Study is effectual in the degree in which the

pupil realizes the place of the numerical truth he is dealing with

in carrying to fruition activities in which he is concerned. This

connection of an object and a topic with the promotion of an activity

having a purpose is the first and the last word of a genuine theory of

interest in education.

3. Some Social Aspects of the Question. While the theoretical errors

of which we have been speaking have their expressions in the conduct of

schools, they are themselves the outcome of conditions of social life.

A change confined to the theoretical conviction of educators will not

remove the difficulties, though it should render more effective efforts

to modify social conditions. Men's fundamental attitudes toward the

world are fixed by the scope and qualities of the activities in which

they partake. The ideal of interest is exemplified in the artistic

attitude. Art is neither merely internal nor merely external; merely

mental nor merely physical. Like every mode of action, it brings about

changes in the world. The changes made by some actions (those which

by contrast may be called mechanical) are external; they are shifting

things about. No ideal reward, no enrichment of emotion and intellect,

accompanies them. Others contribute to the maintenance of life, and

to its external adornment and display. Many of our existing social

activities, industrial and political, fall in these two classes. Neither

the people who engage in them, nor those who are directly affected by

them, are capable of full and free interest in their work. Because of

the lack of any purpose in the work for the one doing it, or because

of the restricted character of its aim, intelligence is not adequately

engaged. The same conditions force many people back upon themselves.

They take refuge in an inner play of sentiment and fancies. They are

aesthetic but not artistic, since their feelings and ideas are

turned upon themselves, instead of being methods in acts which modify

conditions. Their mental life is sentimental; an enjoyment of an inner

landscape. Even the pursuit of science may become an asylum of refuge

from the hard conditions of life--not a temporary retreat for the sake

of recuperation and clarification in future dealings with the world. The

very word art may become associated not with specific transformation of

things, making them more significant for mind, but with stimulations

of eccentric fancy and with emotional indulgences. The separation and

mutual contempt of the "practical" man and the man of theory or culture,

the divorce of fine and industrial arts, are indications of this

situation. Thus interest and mind are either narrowed, or else made

perverse. Compare what was said in an earlier chapter about the

one-sided meanings which have come to attach to the ideas of efficiency

and of culture.

This state of affairs must exist so far as society is organized on a

basis of division between laboring classes and leisure classes. The

intelligence of those who do things becomes hard in the unremitting

struggle with things; that of those freed from the discipline of

occupation becomes luxurious and effeminate. Moreover, the majority of

human beings still lack economic freedom. Their pursuits are fixed

by accident and necessity of circumstance; they are not the normal

expression of their own powers interacting with the needs and resources

of the environment. Our economic conditions still relegate many men to

a servile status. As a consequence, the intelligence of those in control

of the practical situation is not liberal. Instead of playing freely

upon the subjugation of the world for human ends, it is devoted to the

manipulation of other men for ends that are non-human in so far as they

are exclusive.

This state of affairs explains many things in our historic educational

traditions. It throws light upon the clash of aims manifested in

different portions of the school system; the narrowly utilitarian

character of most elementary education, and the narrowly disciplinary

or cultural character of most higher education. It accounts for the

tendency to isolate intellectual matters till knowledge is scholastic,

academic, and professionally technical, and for the widespread

conviction that liberal education is opposed to the requirements of an

education which shall count in the vocations of life. But it also helps

define the peculiar problem of present education. The school cannot

immediately escape from the ideals set by prior social conditions. But

it should contribute through the type of intellectual and emotional

disposition which it forms to the improvement of those conditions. And

just here the true conceptions of interest and discipline are full

of significance. Persons whose interests have been enlarged and

intelligence trained by dealing with things and facts in active

occupations having a purpose (whether in play or work) will be those

most likely to escape the alternatives of an academic and aloof

knowledge and a hard, narrow, and merely "practical" practice. To

organize education so that natural active tendencies shall be fully

enlisted in doing something, while seeing to it that the doing

requires observation, the acquisition of information, and the use of

a constructive imagination, is what most needs to be done to improve

social conditions. To oscillate between drill exercises that strive to

attain efficiency in outward doing without the use of intelligence, and

an accumulation of knowledge that is supposed to be an ultimate end in

itself, means that education accepts the present social conditions as

final, and thereby takes upon itself the responsibility for perpetuating

them. A reorganization of education so that learning takes place

in connection with the intelligent carrying forward of purposeful

activities is a slow work. It can only be accomplished piecemeal, a

step at a time. But this is not a reason for nominally accepting one

educational philosophy and accommodating ourselves in practice to

another. It is a challenge to undertake the task of reorganization

courageously and to keep at it persistently.

Summary. Interest and discipline are correlative aspects of activity

having an aim. Interest means that one is identified with the objects

which define the activity and which furnish the means and obstacles to

its realization. Any activity with an aim implies a distinction between

an earlier incomplete phase and later completing phase; it implies also

intermediate steps. To have an interest is to take things as entering

into such a continuously developing situation, instead of taking them

in isolation. The time difference between the given incomplete state of

affairs and the desired fulfillment exacts effort in transformation, it

demands continuity of attention and endurance. This attitude is what

is practically meant by will. Discipline or development of power of

continuous attention is its fruit. The significance of this doctrine for

the theory of education is twofold. On the one hand it protects us

from the notion that mind and mental states are something complete in

themselves, which then happen to be applied to some ready-made objects

and topics so that knowledge results. It shows that mind and intelligent

or purposeful engagement in a course of action into which things

enter are identical. Hence to develop and train mind is to provide an

environment which induces such activity. On the other side, it protects

us from the notion that subject matter on its side is something isolated

and independent. It shows that subject matter of learning is identical

with all the objects, ideas, and principles which enter as resources or

obstacles into the continuous intentional pursuit of a course of action.

The developing course of action, whose end and conditions are perceived,

is the unity which holds together what are often divided into an

independent mind on one side and an independent world of objects and

facts on the other.

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