CHAPTER V.

LEGISLATION ON SAVINGS BANKS FROM 1844 TO THE PRESENT TIME.

"If there is any question why such importance should be

ascribed to measures of a purely economic character, the

reply is, that these minor matters insensibly build up the

character of the nation; insignificant, it may be in

themselves, they mark, in the aggregate, the well-being or

the suffering of the British people."--_British Quarterly

Review._

It will be remembered that in the third chapter we described the

course of Parliamentary action with regard to Savings Banks down to

the year 1844, and in that chapter left Mr. Hume, after an

unsuccessful attempt to reduce still further the rate of interest to

be given to depositors. The year 1844 is remarkable in the annals of

Savings Banks for the carrying of a measure known as Mr. Goulburn's

Act. The bill which was introduced by that gentleman, who was

Chancellor of the Exchequer in Sir Robert Peel's administration, was

meant in great part to provide against the constantly recurring frauds

in Savings Banks, and still more especially to allay the consternation

among trustees of safe banks, who now loudly complained of the state

of the law with respect to their liability. The discussion in the

House of Lords to which we alluded at the close of the last chapter

may be taken as showing that Savings Bank trustees were by no means

satisfied, several years before this, with the uncertain state of the

law. The great fraud on the Dublin Bank is described as having come

upon many trustees like a thunderbolt, and, aware that they were not

spared by the judicial bench[69] in cases of the kind, they now

threatened open rebellion. Mr. Goulburn received, as he stated

subsequently before a Committee of the House of Commons, a large

number of notices from such officers that, if the law were not

modified, they would resign their trusts. Moved by such considerations

as these, which the Government seem to have felt they could only

disregard at the imminent risk of shaking the credit of the entire

Savings Bank system, Mr. Goulburn introduced his bill (7 & 8 Victoria,

chap. 83,) on the 2d of May, 1844, to amend the laws relating to

Savings Banks.[70] The principal matter with which the bill dealt was

the liability of trustees, but this was by no means the only one.

Second only in importance was the proposal to again reduce the rate of

interest. The remarks with which he introduced his proposal to reduce

the interest rate are curious, to say the least, when viewed in the

light of the speech to which we have previously referred. He felt

confident, he said, that the country _had no right_ to pay upon these

investments a higher rate of interest than could be obtained from an

investment in other securities. The Savings Banks rate was

considerably higher than any other investment of money. Although the

Act of 1828 had tended to reduce materially the number of depositors

of the better classes, and had increased--as we have shown in the last

chapter, we think quite conclusively, so far as figures can show

it--in a still greater proportion the number of those who had

deposited only small amounts, there were still many who were attracted

to Savings Banks on account of the interest given being higher than

that obtained from the Funds. Mr. Goulburn now proposed that the bill

should contain a clause reducing the rate from 2-1/2_d._ per cent. per

day, to 2_d._ With the same object in view, namely, to restrict the

operations of Savings Banks to the class of provident poor, the

Chancellor proposed to reduce the amount which any one could put by in

one year from 30_l._ to 20_l._ and to make the total amount which

could be deposited in any Savings Bank, 120_l_ instead of 150_l._[71]

A further proposition, which provided for another wide-spread evil in

the same direction, was one requiring that no persons should be

permitted to make deposits as trustees without stating the names of

the persons for whom they were acting, and that no payments should be

made in such cases except under a receipt signed by all the parties

interested in the funds deposited. By means of the clauses in previous

acts relating to trust accounts, the law was regularly evaded, and

many persons had considerable sums of their own in Savings Banks,

which they represented as being held in trust for other people, whose

names even they were required not to divulge.[72] This clause was

carried without any trouble, as it met such a palpable evil; provision

was made, however, that the law should not be applicable to trust

accounts opened before the passing of the act. Had it not been for

such an exception, those who had recourse to the stratagem of feigning

the character of a trustee might have lost much of their money, on

account of the difficulty or impossibility of obtaining within the

time the signature of the party apparently interested. Though the

clause was not made retrospective, as some urged it should be, as a

punishment to those who had deceived the managers of Savings Banks, it

was clearly the best thing that could be done to put an end to the

practice, which entirely depended on the powers of the so-called

trustees to draw out the money alone.

Mr. Goulburn spoke next on the question of liability of trustees.

Though the topic was engaging great attention out of doors, little was

said upon the point on this occasion: the section of the act thus

passed so quietly, was, however, pregnant with meaning, and, as it

turned out, pregnant with results. The clause provided that no trustee

or manager of any Savings Bank shall be liable to make good any

deficiency which may hereafter arise in the funds of any of these

institutions, unless these officers shall have respectively declared,

by writing under their hands, _that they are willing to be so

answerable_; and not only so, "but it shall be lawful for each of such

persons, or for such persons collectively, to limit his or their

responsibility to such sums as shall be specified in any such

instrument." This declaration was, of course, to be lodged with the

National Debt Commissioners. On a trustee or manager making it, he

became liable to make good every deficiency that might arise in the

bank with which he was connected, whether through his own

carelessness, or the cupidity of those under him; if a declaration of

this sort were not made, he was liable for nothing.[73]

The above were the three most important changes made in the law of

Savings Banks under Mr. Goulburn's Act, but there were several minor

clauses introduced into the bill which deserve mention, and which

were, there can be no doubt, equally with the more important sections,

the direct results of the systematic frauds already described. With

his eye direct on the Cuffe Street actuary, concerning whom the

Government knew more than was generally known in 1844, the Chancellor,

whilst studiously avoiding all mention of the Dublin case, spoke of

those who, ignorant of business, took their money to improper places,

and made deposits out of office hours. The fourth section of the Act

was, therefore, designed to meet such cases, by declaring any actuary

or cashier who should so take money out of course, and not account for

it at the very first meeting, to be guilty of a misdemeanour, and

liable to be punished for fraud. Section 5 required that deposit-books

should be produced at the bank at least once every year for purposes

of examination and check. Section 17 provided that bonds of sufficient

security shall be given by every officer of a Savings Bank trusted

with the receipt and custody of money, and that these bonds shall be

placed (not with the Clerk of the Peace as before this Act), but under

the charge of the National Debt Commissioners. The old arrangement

likewise for depositing the Rules of the bank with the Clerk of the

Peace was repealed by section 18, and in its place the next section

enacted, that when a new bank was proposed, two written or printed

copies of the Rules of such bank should be transmitted to the

Barrister for his certificate, who, on approval, was to send one copy

back to the Bank authorities, and the other forward to the National

Debt Office. It was the 7 and 8 Vict. which, in addition, conferred

extended powers on the certifying barrister, by appointing him final

Arbitrator in any disputed case. The bill, after having been modified

in one or two respects, and contested on several points,[74] received

the Royal Assent in August, 1844, and was ordered to take effect on

the 20th of November following.

It will not be supposed that the bill, of which the above is an

outline, was passed through its different stages without a word from

Mr. Hume. That member may well be forgiven for alluding on one of

these occasions to the past, and stating, how, so far as the rate of

interest was concerned, he had been fighting for the very thing which

was likely to be brought about. This was clearly a case of patience

and obstinacy rewarded.[75] The bill, however, Mr. Hume stated,

scarcely went far enough for him, though it was in the right

direction. He still held the opinion that persons holding Government

security should be placed on the same footing, and that those who had

20_l._ in the Funds should be dealt with in exactly the same manner as

those who had 1,000_l._ In this, however, we cannot help thinking Mr.

Hume went rather too far, and argued on the assumption that there was

no difference between the shilling of the rich and the shilling of the

poor man. Mr. Goulburn in replying to Mr. Hume said, he knew this was

a favourite point with the member for Montrose; but he could not

concede it: a poor man with 20_l._ in the Funds could not and never

would be able to bear a fall in the Funds so well as the large

stockholder.

Early in 1848 a Committee of the House of Commons, consisting of the

Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Goulburn, Mr. J. A. Smith, Sir J. Y.

Bullar, Mr. Shafto Adair, Mr. Bramston, Mr. Gibson Craig, Mr. Fagan,

Mr. H. Herbert, Mr. Herries, Mr. Hume, Mr. Reynolds, Mr. Poulett

Scrope, and Mr. Ker Seymour, was appointed to inquire into the state

of the Irish banks. As already related in the last chapter, the Cuffe

Street bank soon broke up after the trustees were enabled to take

refuge under the Act of 1844. Into this inquiry, which we have before

referred to, it is unnecessary to enter much further; it presents

little else than information relating to the flagrant breaches of

faith of officers to whom were entrusted the hard earnings of hundreds

of the poorest people living around them. The scope of the inquiry was

limited to Ireland. It seems to have been purposely intended that a

full investigation into the general Savings Bank question should not

now be made. The inquiry was not extended in any sense to the English

banks, though some of the most prominent English managers offered to

give evidence. Doubtless the Government feared that a full exposure of

the frauds in Savings Banks, an inquiry into several matters connected

with the disposal of Savings Bank money already beginning to be

mooted, might have the effect of shaking the confidence of the people.

People were openly saying that Government had not done its best to

make the Savings Bank a secure repository for the people; yet, rather

than raise this issue before a Committee of the House, it submitted to

have the investigation that _was_ made designated "a perfect

star-chamber business," and the members of Government themselves

subjected to great ridicule. The Committee sat only nine days, and

made a report to the House, which Lord George Bentinck characterized

as "the most extraordinary one that ever was presented to Parliament."

"It is as remarkable for its brevity as for its vacuity--as brief as

it is worthless." The report is certainly brief, and may here be given

without curtailment: "Your Committee," it commences, "has proceeded

with the inquiry entrusted to them by the House, but owing to the late

period of the session they have found themselves unable to bring it to

a satisfactory conclusion. They are of opinion that it is advisable

that a further inquiry should take place, either during the recess or

in the next session of Parliament, regulating the liability of

trustees, and providing for the appointment of _auditors_ to Savings

Banks."

The Government immediately set to work to introduce a bill. They saw

that a great mistake had been made four years before, in settling the

question of the liability of trustees in the way it was done, and now

the endeavour must be, if possible, quietly to re-enact the old law in

this particular, making trustees liable in the way they were before

1844. The great mistake in this instance, and that which proved fatal

to the attempt, was in legislating for English as well as Irish banks,

when the inquiry upon which the bill was taken to be founded had been

limited to Ireland, and was not allowed under any circumstances to

extend to England. The debates to which the measure of 1848 gave rise

are certainly the most animated that ever took place in the House on

this subject, and it will be interesting, as in different ways

indicating the feeling of the country, to notice the expressions of

opinion which the discussion elicited. The _Chancellor of the

Exchequer_, Sir Charles Wood, in moving the Bill to amend the Law of

1844, appears[76] to have urged that the clause requiring the trustees

to voluntarily assume responsibility had completely failed; that few

trustees would take the responsibility upon them, and that,

consequently, depositors were losing faith in the banks;[77]

irregularities were increasing; and the trustees had not even the

pretence of a sufficient inducement to make them attend to their

self-imposed duties. In place of no responsibility at all, he proposed

that each trustee should be responsible for a certain sum, which would

be large enough to ensure a reasonable amount of attention, and so

small as not to frighten them into resigning their office altogether.

This sum it was proposed to fix at a hundred pounds. Clauses in the

bill also provided for the appointment of auditors, as suggested by

the Committee of Inquiry, and for the examination of depositors'

books, "that once in each year the books of every depositor shall be

produced at the office of each Savings Bank, for the purpose of being

inspected, examined, and verified with the books of the institution by

the auditor."

More from the way in which this bill was introduced and the

circumstances attending the Committee of Inquiry, than from any

decided opposition to the Government proposals, much agitation

prevailed among Savings Bank officials, which was ultimately made to

extend to depositors.[78] The latter were led to believe that the

proposed legislation would in some way be inimical to their interests,

and petitions were got up, praying that no further Acts should be

passed until a full inquiry was made into every part of the Savings

Bank system. _Sir Henry Willoughby_, who for some years before this

time, and till his death, took much interest in this and cognate

questions, again presided at a meeting of Savings Bank managers in

London about this time, and helped them to concert measures of

opposition. Before speaking in Parliament on the introduction of the

bill under consideration, he presented two large petitions, signed by

79,000 depositors in Savings Banks, praying that Government would

cease their interference with these institutions. This gentleman then

referred to the quietness with which Government had introduced such an

important bill, "not having given such a notice as was invariably

given even with respect to the commonest turnpike road." And the

quietness was a mistake of no ordinary moment. Had the details of the

bill now introduced been understood by the country, there might have

been opposition from managers of Savings Banks, but there could not

well have been so much dissatisfaction expressed by the Press, or by

the body of depositors, whose interest every clause of the bill was

meant to conserve. Sir Henry Willoughby also on this occasion gave

utterance to the feeling which was in many other minds, and which had

led to the opposition then manifested, by alluding to "the impression

which had got abroad and which he believed was perfectly true, that

the money of depositors was used for other purposes by the Government

than those that related to the Savings Banks." Whether the money was

used advantageously or not he would not say, for that was not the

question. _Colonel Thompson_ spoke strongly of the erroneous

impression that everybody had been in about the Savings Banks having

full Government security for their money; so strongly, indeed, that in

another place we shall make further allusion to him. The bitterest

opponent, however, which the Chancellor met with on this occasion was

the leader of the Opposition in the House. _Lord George Bentinck_ felt

sure that the bill was one which its mover (Sir Charles Wood) did not

understand. After going into the details of the measure, and

endeavouring to prove that the examination of depositors' books could

not be accomplished in the larger banks every year,[79] and that the

smaller concerns could not afford to pay for auditors out of the small

surplus of interest which went to pay expenses, Lord George added,

"Surely a Government which had proposed so much and done so little,

can refrain from doing harm, since they cannot do good; and will not

press this most discreditable bill through the House at the end of

August without necessity for it, and against the opinions of those

best calculated to form a judgment." Irish members, seeing the turn

the discussion was taking, urged that, at any rate, the bill might

apply to Ireland. It was patent to everybody that the poor depositors

in Ireland needed every protection, however secure the same classes

might feel in England. In Ireland such a bill was really required, and

was necessary, to restore confidence in Savings Banks;[80] why not

make it apply to Ireland only? After an unsuccessful attempt on the

part of Lord George Bentinck to throw out the bill altogether, it was

decided, on the motion of Mr. Wodehouse, and by a vote of thirty to

eleven, that the words "Great Britain" should be struck out of the

motion, and that the Act should simply apply to Irish Savings Banks.

That the bill now passed was a beneficial change in the law, and a

considerable step in the right direction, no one now doubts; had not

the perverseness of Savings Bank officials prevented the Government

from making its provisions apply to England, much subsequent suffering

and grievous loss would have been saved to many of the best classes of

our industrial population. It was a safeguard such as was wanted in

Ireland, and it answered admirably.

The bill having been made law, and new depositors secured to a

considerable extent from robbery and exaction, the attention of the

Legislature was called to those who had lost their all by past frauds;

and the records of Parliament show that one member after another

reverted to such topics until redress was obtained. On the 29th of

March, 1849, _Mr. Reynolds_, the member for Dublin, moved for the

appointment of a Committee to investigate into the case of the Cuffe

Street bank in Dublin, and to ascertain who were liable for the

extensive frauds in that bank. He alluded to the unsatisfactory result

of the previous inquiry, which was, indeed, not meant to be final. In

making his motion, Mr. Reynolds, who had access, of course, to the

best sources of information, entered into a full account of this bank,

stating, indeed, many of the facts which we have already given. He

complained most bitterly of the Government, who had accepted the

advice of a "flippant barrister," as Mr. Pratt was designated, and who

had suffered the bank to go on when it was known to be in a state of

hopeless insolvency. He described the heartrending scenes which he had

witnessed in Dublin, owing to the failure of the bank, and during the

last eighteen months, and related some of the cases to the House,

where they had ended in insanity, death, or suicide. That the

depositors were mostly poor persons he proved, by stating the average

amount due to each of the 1,664 persons who were creditors of the bank

to be but 27_l._ Mr. Reynolds added, that he had no hesitation in

saying, under the peculiar circumstances of the case, that the

Government ought to make good the loss.[81] If he had not proved that

point, he left it to a Committee of Inquiry to take up. "In the name

not only of justice, but of mercy and compassion," he besought the

House "to agree to his motion, and to save many poor persons from

utter and total ruin." The member for Dublin University (Mr. Napier)

seconded the motion for inquiry, and discussed many of the details of

the failure from a legal point of view. In one remark, he gave

expression to a very general feeling: the course of legislation on

Savings Banks had plainly been to reduce, for strong reasons

doubtless, the responsibility of trustees; in proportion, however, as

that responsibility was reduced, so he, Mr. Napier, thought the moral

responsibility of the commissioners increased. "Precisely in the same

degree as the trustees were relieved, should the vigilance of the

other body have been awakened." Nor was it less unfortunate--though

this is a matter which was not alluded to--that at a time when it was

thought most fitting that the interest on deposits should be reduced,

steps should also be taken to make them less secure as well as less

remunerative.

_Mr. H. A. Herbert_, the member for Kerry, proposed an amendment,

extending the inquiry to this Tralee and Killarney banks, and also to

the single case of failure in Scotland, at Auchterarder. Mr. Herbert

dwelt upon the case of these frauds in an able manner, but we reserve

the consideration of them to the next chapter. The reference to the

Scotch case doubtless called up Mr. Cowen, the member for Edinburgh,

who was sorry to hear of the necessity for any such inquiry in

Scotland; he "had been accustomed to think that they were above

suspicion in Scotland with reference to their banking matters." _Mr.

Cowen_ said that he regarded all discussions on Savings Banks as most

momentous, and as involving the consideration of the most important

national questions. "It was of the greatest importance that Savings

Banks should be placed on a solid foundation, and cleared of all those

injurious anomalies which now attached to them," for he "believed that

they might be made the means of aiding in a great measure to stem that

flood of pauperism which was now overflowing the land." Much warm

discussion followed. The _Chancellor of the Exchequer_ alleged that

the proposed inquiry would be both a useless and an expensive one; and

Mr. Goulburn, the ex-Chancellor, who was equally committed to the same

course of legislation and the difficulties which that legislation had

brought upon the Government, rendered prompt assistance by saying

exactly the same thing. On a division, it was carried by a majority of

three in a House of 100 members, that a Committee should be appointed;

and by a majority of eight, that the inquiry should extend to the

three Irish and the Scotch defaulting bank.[82]

It was one thing, however, to carry a Committee of Inquiry in the face

of both the great parties of the House, and another to nominate the

members who should compose it; and this Mr. Reynolds subsequently

found out to his evident chagrin and disappointment. The Government

had clearly not been sufficiently on the alert, and hence they had

been beaten in the first particular; they secured themselves however

against any further defeat. In the following April, Mr. Reynolds

proceeded according to usage to nominate his Committee, which he

wished should consist of eight English and seven Irish members. The

Chancellor of the Exchequer objected, and wished for the reappointment

of the Committee of the preceding session. Mr. Goulburn promptly

assisted by saying, that it would be a reflection on the Committee of

last year if it was not so reappointed. In that Committee there were

only three Irish members, though the subject then, as now, had

exclusive reference to Ireland. Mr. Reynolds, Mr. Herbert, Sir Henry

Willoughby, stoutly contested the point, which ended in the names of

two additional Irish members being proposed. The Government saw the

importance of the question, and that the inquiry would be made in this

way to turn upon the administration of Savings Banks generally, and

the responsibility of Government in regard to them, and succeeded in

resisting any change by an adverse majority of 111 to 74. The whole of

the names not having been gone through on this occasion, the Irish

members returned to the subject again a few days subsequently. "In the

names of the poor who had been rendered paupers by laws badly

administered," one member asked, "for an impartial jury." Some of the

daily papers had declared that the Government meant to pack the

Committee and so get a favourable decision, and this encouraged the

independent members to persevere. Mr. Herbert said, "the Government

all along most consistently attempted to quash inquiry." He condemned

in strong terms, and under the apparent approbation of the House, the

conduct of Mr. Pratt in relation to the Irish banks. Mr. Reynolds

declared he would divide the House upon all the remaining names

offered by Sir Charles Wood. After two divisions, however, when he was

left in a minority of 42, and 59, in a House of 202 members, he

desisted from carrying out his threat; though he had a close phalanx

of followers, he saw he had no chance against the combined hosts which

the leaders of the two principal parties in the House had brought to

bear.

The members ultimately appointed were the Chancellor of the Exchequer,

the ex-Chancellor, Mr. Herries, Sir George Clerk, Mr. P. Scrope, Sir

G. Y. Bullar, Mr. Ker Seymour, Marquis of Kildare, Mr. Adair, Mr. G.

Craig, Mr. W. Fagan, Mr. Bramston, Mr. J. A. Smith, Mr. H. Herbert,

Mr. Reynolds. This Committee sat thirteen days, and examined nine

witnesses, including several officials connected with the Cuffe Street

bank, Mr. Tidd Pratt, Mr. Higham of the National Debt Office, and Mr.

Boodle of the St. Martin's Place Savings Bank, but came to no

conclusion, and recommended nothing to the House.

On the 13th of May, 1850, the same gentlemen were reappointed under

the self-same conditions as in the previous year: they sat eleven

days, and examined some of the same and other witnesses, and on this

occasion made a long and exhaustive report to the House.[83] This

report, for which all the members except Mr. Reynolds and Mr. Herbert

voted (each of these gentlemen having produced a report of his own

which the Committee would not accept), went over the case of the

defaulting Savings Bank in Dublin very succinctly; exonerated National

Debt Commissioners and their officers from blame; stated that they

found the commissioners did not exercise all the powers they

possessed, but this arose "partly from a misgiving as to the effect of

an exercise of their authority, and partly from an unwillingness to

run the risk of creating a discredit of these institutions;" and that

if the trustees had taken the advice of the commissioners, when in

1845 they advised them to close the bank, the loss to the depositors

would not have exceeded five shillings in the pound. For these and

similar reasons the Committee came to the weighty conclusion, relative

to this particular case of fraud, that "while they cannot admit the

existence of any legal liability on the part of Her Majesty's

Government, they recommend the case of the depositors in the Cuffe

Street bank to the favourable consideration of the Government, with a

view to the adoption of some measure which shall at least mitigate the

extent of their loss." With regard to the other frauds into which they

were instructed to inquire, they reported that there were "no peculiar

features connected with them differing from those of other banks which

have suffered from the dishonesty of their actuaries." They concluded

by expressing their conviction of the unsatisfactory state and working

of the existing law; proper power did not reside with any authority

"to check abuses, however indisputable;" by expressing their opinion

that the provisions of the law of 1844 had worked in a manner

obviously at variance with the intentions of Parliament, and wound up

by the following important paragraph:--

"Your Committee have observed with much satisfaction that

the Chancellor of the Exchequer has introduced a Savings

Banks bill, which is calculated to remedy several

important defects in the existing law, and extends the

responsibility of Her Majesty's Government to the

depositors; and they therefore abstain from all

observations on this part of the subject, further than to

state the conviction, which this inquiry has forced upon

them, of the urgent necessity for further legislation, if

those institutions, which have of late years acquired an

extent and importance so little anticipated by the

original founders of Savings Banks, are to preserve their

hold on the confidence of the country, or produce the

beneficial results expected from them in encouraging and

rewarding the industry and self-denial of the working

classes."

This report was presented to the House on the 1st of August, and at

once referred to a Committee of the whole House. Next day, the

Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed that a grant of 30,000_l._ should

be made to the defrauded depositors in the Cuffe Street bank, out of

the Consolidated Fund. _Sir James Graham_ opposed the grant. If this

money was a matter of charity, he argued, they were opening the door

to a dangerous principle; if of justice or equity, the claim ought to

be paid in full. It was unworthy of the British public to compromise

for ten shillings in the pound. Other members asserted that if Cuffe

Street depositors were paid, the poor creditors of other insolvent

banks would likewise have to be paid. Generally, however, the House

felt with the Committee; it was altogether an exceptional case, the

claims of the former being, as Sir Charles Wood expressed it,

"something between equity, sympathy, and charity." _Mr. Bright_, a

resident of Rochdale, and _Mr. Sharman Crawford_, the member for that

borough, whose ears had lately rung with the tales of heartless

deception practised there, were both for paying these depositors in

full; "there might be no legal claim, but there were the claims of

equity and morality." Mr. Bright, indeed, went so far as to say, that

if Government would bring in a bill to secure other banks in future

from these dreadful calamities, he would willingly vote that all

claims from Savings Bank failures should at once be met by the State.

The House divided on Sir Charles Wood's motion, when 118 members voted

for it, and 39 against it. We may as well say here that several

attempts were subsequently made to get the remaining 30,000_l._ from

Government, but without avail.[84]

It will not be difficult for the reader to understand the position of

affairs up to 1850. The law was clearly unsatisfactory; it had been

pronounced so by Committees which, though composed of nearly the same

members, had sat in three successive years, and patiently examined

into the question in its every detail. The only difference of opinion

indeed in the Committees was, as to the persons who were liable, and

to what extent, for the defective state of the law, and the results to

which it had led. Nor is it at all wonderful that legislation should

have been needed. Savings Banks, as it was often pointed out about the

time, had increased enormously within a short period, and beyond all

proportion to the expectations which were originally formed with

regard to them. When they were first started, many benevolent

individuals entered heartily into the work of managing them, and asked

for no return, except the sense that they had assisted in a humane and

praiseworthy object, for the labour they underwent. Putting two

considerations together--the great increase of business, and the no

less certain decrease in the first ardour attending such

enterprises--the increase of paid officials became absolutely

necessary, and in almost a corresponding ratio did the unpaid

machinery decline. Slowly but surely the management of Savings Banks

went out of the hands of an unpaid into those of a paid staff of

officials, and every year the system of check became more nominal than

real.[85] It was apparent, not less from the proceedings of solvent

Savings Banks than from the exposures made in the case of unsound

ones, that those who had originally taken part in the establishment of

these institutions slowly became honorary in place of active members

of the board; and of those who still continued to take a share in the

work, many had got into the habit of leaving their duties to

subordinates, in some cases signing blank forms, and even cheques, to

be filled up by the acting-manager at his discretion.

At this stage in the history of Savings Banks, the Chancellor of the

Exchequer came forward,--as the reader has already learnt from the

Report of the Committee of 1850,--with a bill to amend the law. This

bill he introduced to the House of Commons on the 29th of April, 1850,

and it forms part of our object to explain in detail the plan now

proposed, inasmuch as for many subsequent years the same measure, with

only trifling modifications, was offered over and over again to the

consideration of the House, and as often declined, through the

overpowering influence of the Savings Bank interest in the country. On

bringing forward his bill, the Chancellor said he wished to avoid all

reference to the past, except in as far as the experience of the past

was a guide to future legislation. He very briefly traced the history

and progress of Savings Banks, remarking at the time that, if he were

not to do so, few could be aware of their real nature, and how they

had grown to their present dimensions. We need not follow Sir Charles

Wood through this account, nor even repeat the reasons which actuated

the Legislature in making changes in the law from time to time up to

the year 1844. Referring to the Act of that session, he described it

as "most defective," and the bill he wished to introduce would amend

it. Speaking of the responsibility as to loss in Savings Banks, which

many persons thought should rest with the Government, he repudiated

the notion, unless Government was allowed to have some control over

the persons who might occasion the loss. On the other hand, he did not

wish to do away with "the most invaluable feature in Savings

Banks--the local management." He thought, however, that Government

might take a medium course, and fairly meet the case by making such

arrangements as "would end in the State bearing nearly the whole

responsibility as regarded the receipt and payment of money." What he

proposed was to alter the enactment that the treasurers of Savings

Banks should receive no emolument, _and to vest the appointment of

Treasurer in the hands of the Commissioners for the Reduction of the

National Debt_. The existing treasurers might in most cases be

continued, and if they wished to work for nothing, they might still

have the option; but he insisted on the Government reappointing such

officers, and upon having a control over them. To this officer, or

some one acting for him, all payments should be made over--the receipt

and payment of money by any other person to be declared illegal.[86]

He considered that this arrangement would guard against the

possibility of fraud. The treasurer and secretary, acting for

different interests, as it were, could scarcely be guilty of

collusion, and the one would in all cases act as a check upon the

other. If this plan were agreed to, the Government would of course be

responsible for every farthing paid to the treasurer.

This was the great and distinguishing feature of the measure which the

Government was disposed to adopt; but there were other features in the

bill of considerable importance, which ought not to go unmentioned.

Thus, it proposed that the Act of 1844 should be repealed, and that

trustees should be responsible for their wilful neglect or default, as

in the Act of 1828. It was clear, however, that under the appointment

of treasurers the responsibility would be little more than nominal.

Another point which the bill provided for was an efficient audit of

the accounts, the trustees of each bank to appoint an auditor, and the

pass-book of each depositor to be annually examined, the auditor in

each case comparing the book with the ledger of the office.[87] The

bill proceeded, further, to give power to the National Debt

Commissioners to send down to any Savings Bank, should they see

occasion for it, an Inspector, to test the accuracy of the accounts of

that bank: with the other provisos already mentioned, depositors would

thus be absolutely safe. The next clause provided against any further

loss to Government. The Chancellor in introducing this subject spoke

of the different rates of interest which had been given to Savings

Banks, and said all of them were higher than could be given without

loss. But this was not all. The loss sustained in having to pay out a

large sum of money whenever called for, no matter how low the Funds

were at the time, was equal almost to the former. After explaining the

case, and giving examples of its working, he added that Government

thus suffered a loss on capital and a loss on interest. "It had been

proposed that Government should merely act as a broker, making

depositors subject to all the fluctuations of the Funds; but," said

the honourable gentleman, "from the numerous communications I have

received from all parts of the country, depositors think much of their

getting their money back as they put it in, and looked to the amount

of interest as a secondary consideration." He then gave a variety of

statistics, and proposed that the limit to the amount of deposits

should be fixed at 100_l._ and that the rate of interest should be

reduced from 3_l._ 5_s._ to 3_l._ for trustees, and 2_l._ 15_s._

instead of 3_l._ 0_s._ 10_d._ to depositors.[88] The Chancellor of the

Exchequer concluded by expressing the wish that the bill of which he

had given the principal clauses, should be discussed fully and

temperately: it involved no party feeling, but it involved many things

intimately connected with the welfare of the classes for which Savings

Banks were established: he said he had done his best to meet the

difficulties of the case, but difficult as it was to do, the matter

ought at once to be settled, and to be settled once for all.[89]

It, however, was not to be settled so soon. Before we refer to any

further expression of opinion on the subject in Parliament and the

ultimate decision in the case, it is only right that we should present

the other--the Savings Bank--view of the matter, as uttered by the

powerful, we had almost said corporate, body at St. Martin's Place.

The Committee of Managers of this important London institution met, as

their custom was, to pass resolutions on any matter affecting Savings

Banks. A petition to Parliament was framed on the resolutions come to

in this as in other instances, and similar petitions were got up and

presented to Parliament from other Savings Banks, who naturally looked

to the St. Martin's Place institution for advice and guidance. At a

meeting held at this representative bank on the 14th of May, 1850,

Lord Walsingham in the chair, the proposals of the Chancellor of the

Exchequer were gone through _seriatim_, and all of them, without

exception, disputed and condemned. It came to the conclusion that (1)

the proposed introduction into Savings Banks of a Government

treasurer, &c., "must lead to great confusion, and eventually to the

disruption of these valuable institutions;" (2) that "the proposed

reduction of the existing rates of interest and the limit in the

amount of deposits will, besides imposing injurious restrictions on

depositors, so diminish the means of defraying the expenses of

management as to render it extremely difficult in some, and impossible

in other cases," to engage efficient assistance; (3) that any further

reduction of the rate of interest to depositors would only tempt them

to withdraw their money from Savings Banks and place it in "more

attractive, but frequently hazardous investments;"[90] (4) that the

grand principle on which well-conducted Savings Banks have hitherto

been so efficiently managed, viz., "that of having the constant

superintendence of gentlemen unconnected with the receipt or payment

of money, will be destroyed if the new bill should be passed into a

law." We ought to add that this Committee did not object to the

abrogation of the law of 1844, which was passed "contrary to their

expressed wishes and recommendations;" that, although they urged that

frauds were comparatively rare, and far less in amount and extent than

in public or mercantile establishments, and that for such reason there

was no just ground for the introduction of an entirely new system such

as was now proposed, they had no objection to a measure adapted still

further to promote the solvency and good management of Savings Banks,

only they must insist that the necessity for such important changes

"should be considered by a Select Committee, and evidence taken from

men of long experience in Savings Bank management." The last

resolution to which this body came was, "That a petition to the House

of Commons, founded upon the foregoing resolutions, be printed and

circulated for the information of other Savings Banks."

To return to the discussion in the House of Commons on the bill now

proposed, _Mr. Hume_ in a temperate speech supported, on the whole,

the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He held that Government ought to

undertake one of two things--either to leave Savings Banks altogether

alone, or else to ensure perfect security to the depositors, which he

saw no difficulty in doing. Of course he agreed with the proposal to

reduce the rate of interest and the limit of the total amount of

deposits, remarking on the latter subject that he had known many cases

where Savings Banks had been taken advantage of in a way that, he was

about to say, was quite unworthy of them; "but let no man say that

anything was unworthy where profit was the object, for he found in all

ranks and classes a tendency to avail themselves of the folly of the

public." Government, he thought, could not do better than try to

encourage among the labouring classes the habit of saving; "for the

moment a man had a nest-egg he desired to add to it, and thus were

habits of economy and prudence fostered among the mass of the people."

_Sir Henry Willoughby_ opposed the bill; he thought the proposal to

reduce the rate of interest would be "an extremely disagreeable

measure." He referred, however, on this occasion principally to the

management of Savings Bank funds, and expressed his opinion that what

was required was that the management of the affairs of Savings Banks

should be taken out of the hands of the Commissioners of the National

Debt, and a separate commission appointed for the purpose.

Few members questioned the wisdom of the proposals at this time, but

many expressed themselves dissatisfied that the bill would have no

reference to the past, and that the Chancellor had not alluded in any

way to the depositors who had lost their all by the bank failures and

by the action of the bill of 1844. Mr. Crawford spoke of the Rochdale

depositors, Mr. Fagan of the Killarney depositors, and Mr. Herbert of

the Dublin and Tralee depositors. _Mr. Slaney_ thanked the Chancellor

of the Exchequer for the amount of attention which he had bestowed on

the bill, which he "deliberately thought would interest more persons

than any other measure that would be introduced this session." He

thought the security now promised would be real, though he was sorry

the Chancellor meant to make the people pay for it. His opinion (and

he had considered the subject of industrial investments very largely)

was that neither the amount of, nor the interest on, deposits should

be reduced; he would "be most willing to pay a small bonus to tempt

the savings of these poor people." We are glad, however, to say that

this view of the case did not meet with much approval. After several

more appeals from such members as Mr. Bankes and Colonel Thompson,

that Government would come to the rescue of the defrauded depositors

who had, in their ignorance it might be, looked to the country for

security, the bill was ordered to be brought in by the Chancellor and

Mr. Attorney-General. On the motion made to read the bill a second

time on the 8th of August, 1850, Mr. Hume and Sir Henry Willoughby

importuned the Chancellor of the Exchequer to defer the consideration

of the bill to the next session; the former urging that honourable

members might study the reports of the Committees of 1849-50, during

the interim, and the latter that time might be given "to allow of a

consolidation of all the statutes relating to Savings Banks, and an

inquiry into the whole subject." The Chancellor replied, that after

the agitation which had been got up among the managers of Savings

Banks, and the considerable misunderstanding which prevailed relative

to the provisions of the bill, he reluctantly consented to withdraw

it.[91] Several members took the opportunity to urge that the

Chancellor should bring the matter forward the first thing in next

session; but the Savings Bank interest proved still stronger in 1851,

and again Sir Charles Wood got nothing done, and never heartily took

up the question again.

In 1853 an Act was passed to "Amend and Consolidate the Law relating

to the Purchase of Government Annuities." The bill was introduced and

carried through by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. This Act continued

the same powers to the Commissioners as were given in 1833, and the

clauses relating to the purchase of annuities, deferred and immediate,

were continued. It further empowered them, however, to grant deferred

annuities for a sum to be paid down at once, and not returnable, and

also to grant annuities otherwise than through Savings Banks. It was

said that the reason why the Act of 1833 had been practically

inoperative was the want of such a clause: that the fact of only being

able to buy a deferred annuity on the condition of money being

returnable, not only caused many lapses, but made the tables heavier

than they ought to be. Under the fresh clause better things were

augured; any one purchasing such an annuity, it was argued, takes the

chance of his not living to receive it, just as the member of a

benefit society takes his chance of never being ill, and therefore

never needing what he pays to secure if his health should fail. The

benefit in return for this risk is, however, proportionally increased,

inasmuch as the contributions of those who do not live to the term

when the annuities commence, go to swell the contributions of those

who may,--the purchase-money, in the case of money being returnable,

being of course much larger than in the other, where more risk is run.

We give the argument for what it is worth; but it is certainly curious

that at a more recent date, when again the law regulating the purchase

of annuities underwent alteration and amendment, a great outcry was

raised, because the tables of rates, "with money returnable," were

temporarily kept back; one respectable organ of public opinion going

so far as to say that the changes would be inoperative till these

tables were produced. An opposition was got up during the progress of

the measure in Parliament, owing to the clause empowering the

Government to grant life assurance policies to those who should

likewise buy annuities. It was said now, just as it was urged, though

much more strongly, subsequently, that there were great objections to

the Government becoming a trading community, or doing anything which

could be carried out by a private company. "The system of life

assurance," said a well-known Scotch member, "was at present carried

on so successfully and so judiciously by the ordinary life assurance

societies, that it would be most unwise to interfere with them."

Another member argued that the annuities scheme had so lacked success

that no amount of tinkering would make it applicable to the country.

The Secretary of the Treasury explained that Government were not

anxious about doing the business of insurance offices, but only

desired to give facilities, which the law did not then allow, for the

conversion of Savings Bank deposits into a satisfactory provision for

want or old age. The bill was read a third time, with a majority of 28

in a House of 56 members, and soon afterwards passed without any

further difficulty, and received the Royal Assent. Such a measure,

whatever the poorer classes might think of it, was well calculated to

spread the spirit of independence amongst them. The State did well to

offer the opportunity of increased facilities; and if those for whose

benefit such schemes were intended did not avail themselves of them to

secure, by a very small amount of temporary sacrifice in seasons of

health and prosperity, a provision against those risks to which all

the poorer classes are liable, of falling through unexpected

contingencies into poverty and pauperism, the blame would rest

elsewhere than with the State.

As we have already said, the session of 1851 passed without any

attempt at legislation, and in the beginning of 1852, there being

still no sign of action on the part of the Executive, the late _Mr.

Herbert_, so well known in connexion with the Irish banks, proposed a

resolution to the effect--

"That this House has observed with regret the continued

neglect of Her Majesty's Government to fulfil their

promise of introducing a bill for the regulation of

Savings Banks, by which those important institutions may

be enabled to preserve their hold on the confidence of the

country, and a due encouragement be thus given to the

industry and providence of the working classes."

There was every reason to believe that this resolution would have

passed, until the Chancellor of the Exchequer rose. _Sir Charles Wood_

admitted that the bill had been far too long delayed; but this was no

fault of his. It was thrown out in 1850; he could not get it

introduced in 1851: it was ready, however, and it should be brought

forward this session. He had not given notice of it, because he had

been engaged in consultation with several members in so preparing the

measure as to ensure its passage through the House. His firm

conviction was, that the delay in the present instance had tended not

only to improve the bill, but to diminish the chances of opposition to

it when introduced. During the last four years the greatest pains had

been taken to frame such a measure as should effectually remove the

evils that had been complained of; and within the past few months they

had had the assistance of a new Comptroller of the National Debt

Office, who had "devoted himself with great diligence to the

subject."[92] He submitted, in conclusion, that he was not deserving

of the censure of the House, especially as it had been settled to try

the measure again during the present session. _Mr. Disraeli_ agreed

with Sir Charles Wood, though the resolution before the House was

apparently justified by the circumstances, it would not be becoming in

them to divide the House after what had been promised. The question

was surrounded with difficulties, but notwithstanding these

difficulties it was the paramount duty of the Legislature to grapple

with it; and an opportunity would be soon afforded. Mr. Disraeli at

this time did not know how soon he was to be in a position to grapple

with the subject himself. Sir Charles Wood's pledge was not kept. All

such measures as those we are considering have suffered greatly from

the vicissitudes of administrations, and it was so in this instance.

Towards the end of 1852 Mr. Disraeli succeeded Sir Charles Wood as

Chancellor of the Exchequer in Lord Derby's first Ministry; but he had

scarcely time, supposing him to have had the disposition, to take up

the matter where it had been left. When the Derby Administration gave

place to the coalition Ministry of Lord Aberdeen, and Mr. Gladstone

took the place of chief financial minister, there was soon a better

prospect of some settlement. Even under his auspices, however, matters

at first went on very slowly; so multiform were the questions and

interests involved, that even Mr. Gladstone's powers were severely

tried to clear the ground of the incumbrances which time and prejudice

had reared. When Mr. Gladstone left office and was succeeded by Sir

George Lewis much had been done; the necessary preliminary measure of

a full investigation into the Savings Bank question by a Committee of

the House of Commons had been decided; the real nature of the

connexion existing between the Government and the Savings Banks was

better understood: and when after a lapse of two or three years he

returned to his old position, he took the matter up where it had been

left, and carried the subject, by his unapproachable eloquence and

energy to an easy and final solution. Mr. Gladstone's name will go

down to posterity covered with honourable trophies of his great

powers; but we question whether among the great schemes he has carried

any will be remembered longer than those meant to increase among the

lower classes the habits of prudence and frugality.

Early in 1853, and when he had but just succeeded to the office of

Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Gladstone gave notice that the

subject must be taken up, and if possible settled. A bill[93] was

allowed to pass the second reading without discussion; but when the

subject came up before Committee in July of that year, Mr. Gladstone,

compelled to succumb to the wish that Parliament should be prorogued,

asked that this and other bills might be deferred till the next

meeting of Parliament. He said he had made great progress with the

bill since it was first introduced; he had sought to get the opinion

of the different Savings Bank managers upon it, and he believed he had

acquired a pretty accurate knowledge of the state of feeling in the

country on the subject.[94] All this was favourable to the prospects

of the bill; but now, as the House had lasted since November 1852, he

feared that if it was pushed forward it might fail to pass. He should

have liked to have got the question settled, but he now thought his

object would be more speedily obtained by the delay proposed. Here the

sagacious Minister was mistaken; the old adage of no time being better

than the time present could often be well applied to proposals to

defer desirable matters of legislation to a future session. No mention

was made of the subject for nearly eighteen months; the country had

more pressing, and, for the time, much more serious matters to

consider, which it will be quite unnecessary to particularize.

On the 20th of December, 1854, Mr. Gladstone moved for and obtained

leave to bring in two bills during the session of 1855: the one "to

create a charge on the Consolidated Fund" of the money due on behalf

of the depositors in Savings Banks, and the other, the bill for the

management of Savings Banks which was withdrawn in 1853. In the former

important proposal the Chancellor of the Exchequer desired to make the

law more perfect as to the relation between the depositor and the

State, by giving the latter a better title to the money invested with

the State. He wished, in his own language, "to reduce the obligation

and the contract of the State with the depositor to that simple form

which is adopted by every banker." He would propose, "as respects the

bulk of the funds received from Savings Bank depositors, that they

should be held in this country as they are held in other countries,"

and not in the complicated form of Stock and other public securities.

Mr. Gladstone's view, more than once expressed in strong terms, with

respect to the State using the money belonging to Savings Banks, was

that it was no matter to anybody what was done with the money,[95]

providing it were ready at call and the stipulated interest were

given,--the stability of the country being surely a sufficient

guarantee for its safety. Savings Bank authorities, on the other hand,

disputed the right of the Chancellor to use the money; would prefer to

use it themselves in other investments, if the funds were applied

otherwise than under statute in the purchase of Bank Annuities; and

referred to the uncertain title in law which depositors had for the

money according to the governing statute. Mr. Gladstone's bill

proposed to give this title to every penny so deposited with the

State, by throwing the burden of any deficiency arising on the

Consolidated Fund, and so silence at any rate the last objection.[96]

Early in the session of 1857 the then Chancellor of the Exchequer (the

late Sir George Lewis) was several times asked if the subject of

Savings Banks had not to be brought forward and concluded. These

questions led to his promising to bring in the Government measure

which, often brought forward and as often withdrawn, was still waiting

for a tide of popular favour to carry it into law. On the 27th of

February in this year he gave notice of this intention, and earnestly

trusted that the House would allow it to pass. In a short speech, the

points of which we need not recapitulate--for it dealt with the same

facts and came to the same conclusion as those speeches of previous

Chancellors already described,--he proposed the first reading. Then

came the dissolution of Parliament, and its forcible postponement for

one more session.[97]

In a fortnight from the meeting of the new Parliament Sir G. Lewis,

true to his promise, moved that the House go into Committee on the

Savings Bank Bill, which had even then reached that stage. His motion

was, "That it is expedient to amend the laws relating to Savings

Banks, and to provide for the establishment of Savings Banks with the

security of the Government." The Chancellor said that almost everybody

was agreed as to the principles of the bill, though it was true that

the managers of many Savings Banks contested some of the details. The

greatest objection to the bill when last introduced being the

provision to limit the total amount of deposits to 100_l_., he would

now propose, as it did not affect the bill at all materially, to drop

that clause; the law to remain as it then stood. This was the only

material difference; there were minor points, but they were not worth

pointing out. He then went over the changes which the bill proposed to

make in the law; the ample security he wished to give to all who

deposited money in Savings Banks, at the same time taking no

superfluous securities and imposing no unnecessary restrictions in

order to guard the interest of the public. Should the local

authorities of Savings Banks still be found unwilling to part with

their own control, or admit any interference on the part of the

Government, there was only one course left to him--namely, "to abandon

the bill," to leave things in their present position, and continue a

system by which the depositors are left entirely to the security of

the local officers; while at the same time Government is left wholly

irresponsible, except for the amounts actually lodged in its hands. "I

trust, however, that the plan will be considered a reasonable plan,"

said the Chancellor, in conclusion, "that it will be found not to

impose upon the local authorities any shackles of which they can

reasonably complain, and that no securities are demanded on behalf of

the public beyond what are absolutely necessary."[98] _Sir Henry

Willoughby_ held that the law needed consolidating before any new Act

was passed. It was not long since 200 petitions were presented to the

House for a consolidation of existing statutes, and an inquiry into

the entire system. Let the House take this step first. After speaking

warmly on the subject of the disposal of Savings Bank money, he

appealed to the Chancellor to refer the whole subject to a Select

Committee, who should recommend a clear and well-defined legislative

enactment. _Mr. Sotheron Estcourt_ and _Viscount Goderich_ took the

same view; the former gentleman, however, warmly approved of the

Government bill, which had "happily been re-introduced," and thought

that "most of the alterations made were improvements." As a trustee of

a Savings Bank he would consider his position infinitely improved by

the bill. If, however, the feeling of the House was for a committee,

this course could not prejudice the bill, though it would delay it.

_Mr. Thomas Baring_ thought the matter should go before a Select

Committee; so did Mr. Henley. The Irish members, Mr. Slaney and

others, were for passing the bill, and not deferring legislation any

longer on any pretence. The Chancellor of the Exchequer opposed any

further delay; the adoption of any other resolution would simply tend

to shelve the bill for another session. If honourable gentlemen really

wished to reject the bill, let them resort to the direct and fair

course of doing so. He also was for consolidating the laws relating to

Savings Banks; but till that could be done he thought it by far the

best plan to introduce a few more clauses into the law to remedy

grievances which could not wait to be redressed. The motion was then

agreed to. The second reading came off on the 8th of June. _Mr.

Ayrton_, in a long and animated speech, during which he said that the

greater number of Savings Banks were now most efficiently managed on a

principle which was most conducive in binding the humbler to the more

influential classes, and that he could conceive nothing more

calculated to destroy that sympathy than the present proposals--"felt

inclined to move that the bill be read a second time that day six

months." The result of the proposals would be a step in the direction

of the system which obtained on the Continent, where every function of

the community was usurped "by what was called the civil service of the

country." Amidst cries of "Divide," Mr. Ayrton said he was strenuously

opposed to any such system. _Mr. McCann_ said the whole body of the

people were unanimous in applauding the measure of the Chancellor of

the Exchequer. _Sir Harry Verney_ approved of the principle of the

bill, but said he would like to see the subject referred to a Select

Committee. _Mr. Barrow_ opposed the bill and the Select Committee

also. _Mr. Estcourt_ again, in an admirable and temperate speech,

during which he showed an excellent knowledge of the subject in all

its bearings, assisted the Government in their proposals. To give the

reader a proper idea of the ground taken by Mr. Estcourt, who, when

the committee was eventually appointed, was made chairman of it, we

need only give the concluding part of his speech on this occasion:--

"He earnestly wished that this session would not pass

without a Government Savings Bank bill becoming law, and

he hoped the honourable gentleman would persevere with

this bill; but even should the bill pass, he joined his

voice with that of others in entreating the Government,

after giving the poor man the guarantee which he did not

now possess, to give to the public generally more accurate

information on the whole subject, a clearer account of how

the money was applied, and how the deficit spoken of had

arisen. That information ought to be given, if only for

the purpose of showing the groundlessness of the

suspicious observations made against this bill; and

therefore, though he heartily concurred in giving his

voice for the second reading, he joined with other

gentlemen in entreating the Government to give them a

Select Committee, not in order to shelve the bill for the

session, but, next year, for the purpose of assisting the

Government, and giving the public that information which

they ought to have."

A History of Banks for Savings in Great Britain and Ireland · 第 5 / 13 章