of Mantua; who, the very day of his arrival, took the trouble of
coming to see him at his own house, where he was lying down, being
very ill; this interview was passed in civilities respecting his
malady. Two days afterwards he came again to see him, and asked him
for a copy of all that he had done in France, which he gave him very
exactly, but with great pain to himself, on account of his illness.
That same day he made the Duke sign all the papers necessary for
the entire completion of the treaty, as far as regarded the form.
Three or four days afterwards, having received intelligence from the
Sieur Carbonini, that there was a plan to poison him, and having
even perceived that they had put poison into a medicine, which he
had pretended to take, but had found the means of throwing away,
he had taken the resolution, under the pretext of recovering his
health, of going to Padua, whither he had taken all the original
papers with him.
On the 24th or 25th of January, the Duke of Mantua, in his way
to Venice, passed through Padua; where he went to see the Sieur
Matthioli, who was ill, and where he told the Sieur Matthioli,
that he had not been able to avoid talking of this affair to his
Mother, and that it was an affair which means must be found to break
off, because it was not for his advantage. To which, the aforesaid
Matthioli answered several things, and among others, that he had
again written quite lately to the court to say that all was signed;
and that these were the sort of engagements that it was not easy to
get released from. The Duke of Mantua afterwards asked him for the
original papers, to which he replied that they were locked up, and
that it would be a great inconvenience to him, being as ill as he
was, to go and look for them; but that he would come as soon as he
was able to Venice, where he would deliver the whole into his hands.
He says that the Sieur Giuliani came to see him at Padua from the
Duke of Mantua, to give him intelligence that the Inquisitors of
State at Venice were making search for him, and that he must take
his measures accordingly, in order not to be seized with the papers;
which obliged him to mix them with many others, and to place them in
a separate house from the one he lived in.
After having been three weeks at Padua, he set off for Venice,
leaving the original papers, and not taking them with him. He
arrived ill at Venice; went to bed as soon as he arrived there,
where he remained three days; afterwards he went to see the Duke of
Mantua, who told him that the Abbé Frederic, the Resident of the
Emperor at Venice, was acquainted with all the affair respecting
Casale; to which the aforesaid Matthioli answered that he was not
surprised at it, and that assuredly his Mother, to whom he had
told all himself, had had no reserve upon the subject with the
aforesaid Abbé Frederic. He asked him afterwards for the original
papers, which he told him he could not give him, having left them
at Padua, upon the advice which Giuliani had given him from him, to
take care that the Venetians, who were looking out for him, should
not find them in his possession. The Duke of Mantua told him that
it was absolutely necessary to break off this affair; to which he
answered that he ought to take care how he behaved with regard
to the King; that he had entered into engagements from which he
could not extricate himself without breaking his word, which would
be very dangerous to do with so powerful a Prince. The Duke of
Mantua obliged him afterwards to have an interview with him and the
Abbé Frederic, which took place in the chamber of a Monk of Saint
George; they were masked there, in order not to be known. The Duke
of Mantua said to the Sieur Matthioli, “I leave you with the Abbé
Frederic, with whom you will hold a conversation; you must do all
that he shall bid you.” The aforesaid Abbé Frederic showed him a
copy of the treaty; and appeared so particularly instructed upon
the subject, that there was no possibility of his denying it. The
aforesaid Abbé told him that it was an affair which must be broken
off; that it would be the ruin of Italy and of his master also, and
that it was absolutely necessary to think of some means which would
make it certain not to happen; and that he might expect a great deal
of gratitude from the House of Austria, if he conducted himself
well. He confesses that he appeared to enter into his sentiments,
not being able to do otherwise; but that remaining master of the
original papers, he thought he should be always able to complete the
affair, which he intended to do in this manner.
The Governor of Casale being his friend, he did not doubt but that
he should be able to make him do all that he wished. To this end,
he made a packet of the four blank papers signed by the Duke of
Mantua, which he had made him sign at Mantua when he first arrived
there, and while this Prince was still well-intentioned. That in
order to inspire more confidence to the Governor of Casale, that he,
the Sieur Matthioli, would do nothing, except with the order of his
master, he had had this packet addressed to him by another Secretary
of the Duke of Mantua, named Magnus, who has for his department
the management of the affairs of the Montferrat, to whom he said,
“Here is a packet which his Highness has told me to send to Casale:
as you administer the affairs of that country, write a letter to
the Governor, ordering him to execute all that is to be enjoined
by this packet.” That this proceeding procured for him the entire
confidence of the Governor, by making him see that he would not ask
any thing of him which he could not execute with honour; that he
had made d’Asfeld set off from Venice two or three days afterwards,
in order to arrive about the same time with him at Incréa, where he
intended to have taken all the necessary measures with the aforesaid
Governor, for the completion of the affair.
Being asked why he had acted in this indirect manner, (since it
had been agreed in the interview which he, M. de Pinchesne, and M.
d’Asfeld had had together on the 24th of February, that the Duke
of Mantua should go to Casale on the 15th of March, which was a
decided mark of the good intentions of his Master), he replied,
that his Master was truly well-intentioned, from the fear he had
inspired him with of the King’s resentment; but that knowing the
natural uncertainty of his disposition, he had thought it right to
take measures to enable him to complete the affair, even in case
he (the Duke) had not kept to his engagement of coming to Casale.
Being asked why he did not confide this to the Sieurs de Pinchesne
and d’Asfeld, he said that he did not wish to discover to them the
intelligence that existed between him and the Governor, or to give
them any idea of uncertainty in this affair, which might perhaps
have made them suspend the execution of it; that as he himself
regarded it as the means of making his fortune, if he could bring
it to a conclusion, and as he did not doubt that such would be the
event, from the measures he had taken, he wished to avoid all that
might retard the execution of it. That the Sieur de Pinchesne can
say whether he, the Sieur Matthioli, did not always answer to him
for the success of the affair, without, however, being ever willing
to communicate to him the means to be employed in it.
Being asked whether he did not speak of the affair of Casale with
certain Venetians, he answered that they were so well-informed
upon the subject, that it is very likely he may have conversed
with some of them upon it, but in the way of telling them that it
was an affair which was broken off, and had failed; that he had
seen the Chevalier Cornaro, Inquisitor of State, only once, for
the purpose of asking his permission to carry arms, as the Duke
of Mantua wished to have him assassinated, in order the better to
authorize his disavowal of all that he, the Sieur Matthioli, had
done in France, which was certainly a very unjust reason on the part
of his Master for wishing to have him killed; that as he was of a
fickle disposition, his sentiments would change upon this subject
as upon every thing else; and that by making use of precautions for
some time, he should escape this misfortune: this permission was
promised, but was never given to him.
Being asked whether he had not conversed at Venice with some one of
the partisans of Spain, he answered, no; that he left that place on
the 28th of February, two days after M. d’Asfeld, to go to Incréa.
Being asked whether he had not known beforehand, that the Sieur
d’Asfeld was to be arrested, he answered that he had had no
knowledge of it, and that he had even only known with certainty his
detention at Buffacore, as far as which place he had gone on his
road to the rendezvous at Incréa, having with him all the papers
necessary for the conclusion of the affair of Casale, which he had
concealed so well in a saddle, that they were not found, though he
was very minutely searched upon the frontiers of the Brescian and
the Milanese; that from Buffacore he returned straight to Venice,
not having any doubt of the arrest of d’Asfeld, from the news he had
received respecting it; that he only remained there two days, in
order to inform M. de Pinchesne of the accidents that had happened.
Being asked whether he conversed with other persons at Venice, he
answered, no.
When he left Venice he returned to Padua, where he remained always,
except some short visits to Venice, of a day at the longest, to
confer with M. de Pinchesne.
Being asked if, at Padua, he had not held intercourse with some one
of the partisans of Spain; he answered, yes; with the individual
named Don Francis Visconti, natural son of the Count Visconti,
Commissary-General of the Milanese, who had spoken to him on the
part of his father and of the Count de Melgar, and who having in
his possession a copy of the treaty, and being perfectly instructed
of the whole transaction, it was not possible for him to deny it;
but he spoke of it as an affair that had failed, and gained the
confidence of the aforesaid Francis, who offered him a thousand
pistoles, and a fief in the Milanese, if he would deliver to M. de
Melgar the original papers which were in his possession. He answered
him that this affair having appeared to him to have failed, he had
given them to M. de Pinchesne, and was no longer master of them. The
aforesaid Francis persuaded him to enter into communication with M.
de Melgar, in order, for the future, to prevent the execution of
this affair, and took measures with him, about the 10th or 12th of
March, for acquainting M. de Melgar with every thing; and to this
end agreed with him upon the Spanish cypher found among his papers.
He says that he did all this only to deceive them, and to prevent
their taking other means, than through him, of being informed of the
resolutions of the King in this affair.
Being asked whether he did not know, through the means of Francis,
of the arrest of d’Asfeld, he answered, yes, and that the aforesaid
Francis told him he had been arrested at Canonica, twenty-five miles
from Milan, on the side of Bergamo, and that they had been waiting
for him there more than a fortnight.
Being asked if he knew who were the people that arrested him, he
answered, that he did not know precisely, but that Don Francis had
told him they were people employed by M. de Melgar, and that they
had been placed upon various routes in order not to miss him. Don
Francis told him besides that he was a prisoner in the castle of
Milan; that he was very civilly treated there; and that he had not
been interrogated, nor found charged with any papers.
Being asked whether he had not given any body a copy of the treaty;
he swore distinctly that he had given it to no one, and that those
copies which have got about could only have come from the mother of
the Duke of Mantua, to whom her son had confided the whole affair.
He came from Padua to Turin, upon receiving the letter of the Abbé
d’Estrades, in order to contrive an interview with the Governor of
Casale; which he had done, and had found the Governor well inclined
to contribute to the completion of the business. From thence he
returned to Turin, where the Abbé d’Estrades persuaded him to have
an interview with me, during which I arrested him. I send this
last fact to you, Sir, shortly, because I have already given you a
sufficiently exact detail respecting it.[291]
[289] Of Turin.
[290] Two of the Ministers of the Duke of Mantua.
[291] Extracted from the work of M. Roux (Fazillac).
No. 93.
LOUVOIS TO SAINT-MARS.
St. Germain, May 20th, 1679.
Your letter of the 10th of this month has been delivered to me; I
have nothing to add to what I have already commanded you respecting
the severity with which the individual named Lestang must be
treated.
With regard to the man who conducted M. de Richemont into Piedmont,
you may let him go, after having recompensed him sufficiently,
taking care to let me know what you have given him.
DE LOUVOIS.[292]
[292] From the Archives of France.
No. 94.
CATINAT TO LOUVOIS.
Further particulars respecting Matthioli.
Pignerol, May 21st, 1679.
I only send you, Sir, the answers which the Sieur Lestang has made
to me upon the points, on which you have ordered me to interrogate
him; the preceding examinations, which I took the liberty of
sending you, having already informed you upon other subjects, and
generally upon every thing which I have been able to learn from the
aforesaid Sieur de Lestang. He is a man whose conduct has been so
infamous, that one cannot answer for the truth of any thing he says;
nevertheless, I believe him to be sincere in the desire he shows
that the original papers should be in the King’s possession. He sees
very well, that he has only this way of getting out of the affair. I
have already, Sir, made you acquainted with the means we are making
use of to obtain them. I am also persuaded that he has had intimate
communications with the Governor of Casale; perhaps, though, the
detention of the Sieur de Lestang may have changed the dispositions
of the latter. The Sieur de Lestang has told me, that at their
last interview near Moncalvo, the aforesaid Governor pressed him
to conclude this affair, saying, that any delay in the execution
of it was dangerous; that the four black papers signed, which he
had sent him, were sufficient, if they were filled up with what
was necessary, so that he might appear to act according to orders;
that it was also necessary to let him have an interview with some
confidential man on the part of the King, with whom he might agree
upon every thing; he told him even that the civilities he had shown
me when I was at Casale, were only because he thought I was a man
employed in this affair, although I called myself an officer going
to Vercelli, and that for the chance of this, he was determined
to treat me with great distinction. Lestang has told me that he
related all this to the Abbé d’Estrades. I have asked him why, as
the Governor was so well-intentioned, he, Lestang, had eluded a
prompt execution, when it was proposed to him? He answers to this,
that he had engaged himself by letter to the Duke of Mantua to be
at Venice on Ascension-day, where he still hoped to have sufficient
influence over him to extract from him a last consent. That he
should immediately after this have brought back the original papers,
and that having already taken his measures with the Governors of the
town and of the citadel, the execution of the affair would not have
had to encounter any further difficulty; that Vialardo, Governor of
the castle, being of the Spanish faction, might have been a small
obstacle, but not to signify, when the town and the citadel should
have been in our possession. I send you, Sir, all that this man has
told me, without being answerable for the truth of it. I shall set
off the 2d of next month, as I have already done myself the honour
of acquainting you, Sir, if between this time and then, I hear that
the papers have been delivered to M. de Pinchesne.
I am, with all the respect, &c.
(Signed) C.[293]
[293] Catinat. This letter is extracted from the work of M.
Roux (Fazillac).
No. 95.
Third Examination of Matthioli.
May 21st, 1679.
Being asked whether at his return from France he had not seen the
president Turki; he answered, that it is true he had told him there
was a treaty respecting Casale, and that he had even told him the
conditions of it, but that he could not have given him an exact
copy of it, because he had not his papers with him, having sent
them from Lyons to Placentia, addressed to one of his friends named
M. Rigueti-Cannevavi, Chancellor-general of the posts, in order to
avoid having them with him in his journey through Italy.
Being asked why he made this confidence to the President Turki; he
answered, that he had known the President for four or five years;
and that in the course of conversation, from indiscretion and quick
talking, he had allowed himself to tell too much.
Being asked what the aforesaid President said to him, when he had
told him that there was a treaty respecting Casale; he answered,
that M. Turki explained to him that it would disturb the whole of
Italy, and that it would cause a war there; that the aforesaid
President gave him several good reasons for this.
Being asked why he, who had the honour of being the head of so great
and important a negociation, had commenced it with the intention
of preventing the execution of it, as he had said at Turin; he
answered, that this was never his design; that it was very true that
he had said to the President Turki, that there was no appearance of
this treaty being executed, because it depended upon the peace, and
that if the war was at an end, he was persuaded they should never
manage to arrive at the execution of it. The aforesaid President
upon this told him, that peace would certainly be made; but that,
if under any circumstances a change was to take place at Casale, he
would rather prefer that the French should be the masters of it than
the Spaniards.
Being asked why he wrote so regularly from Venice and from Padua,
upon the subject of this affair, to the aforesaid President; he
answered, that the aforesaid President begged him, when he left
Turin, to do so, and to acquaint him exactly with all that should be
done in relation to this affair; that in pursuance of the promise
he had made him to that effect, he had always sent him accounts of
it, but written in the sense as if it would not take place, the
peace being at present concluded, and the affair of Guastalla being
settled, which was one of the most powerful motives that had urged
the Duke of Mantua to put himself under the protection of the King.
That he persuaded the aforesaid President that this affair would
not take place, in order that the intelligence he gave him might
agree with what he told the Duke of Mantua himself, and the Abbé
Frederic, resident of the Emperor at Venice; and that he encouraged
this opinion in the mind of every body, the better to arrive at his
ends, and to succeed in the plan he had of introducing the troops of
the King into Casale, through the means of his intelligence with the
Governor. That this intention never quitted him for a moment, and
that what now was considered as his crime, would appear a most able
contrivance, if the whole of this affair was ever thoroughly known.
That his obstinacy in keeping possession of the original papers,
and his understanding with the Governor of Casale, are proofs of
the truth of this; that if he had not had a well-grounded intention
of serving the King, he should not have taken such care of these
papers, the retaining of which brought upon him the indignation of
his master, and even put his life into great jeopardy; and that his
secret intelligence with the Governor was perfectly useless to him,
unless his intentions were true and faithful.
Being asked what were the contents of the letters he received from
the President; he answered, that he had received one among others,
in which the aforesaid President wrote him word that he was sure
he was deceiving him, by always telling him that the affair of
Casale would not take place; because of the arrival of troops in
the quarters behind Pignerol, which could only be for the affair of
Casale.
Being asked whether the President Turki had not shown to him a
desire that this affair should fail; he answered, no; that he had
always conversed upon it without delivering an opinion, at the same
time showing a great deal of curiosity to be informed exactly of all
that might happen relating to this affair.
Being asked whether he had seen the Marquis of Saint-Maurice: he
answered, no.
Being asked, through whom the Court of Savoy could have received
such particular information; he answered, that it must have been
through the Count of Juvenasque, the Resident from Spain at that
Court, who has a great deal of intercourse with the Monk Bulgarini;
and that the aforesaid Bulgarini had known every thing from the
mother of the Duke of Mantua.
Being asked why he had acquainted the Count Hercules Visconti of
the departure from Venice of the Sieur d’Asfeld; he answered,
that he had had no intercourse with him, till his return from
Buffacore to Padua, after the arrest of the Sieur d’Asfeld, when
Don Francis, the natural son of the Count Hercules Visconti, saw
him, and held intercourse with him; which he had confessed to in his
first examinations.
Being asked whether the original papers were at Padua, he answered
affirmatively, yes; and that it is his real intention they should
be delivered up to the King, as he sees this is the only means of
atoning for his conduct.
Being asked whether on his arrival at Turin, he had not asked the
President Turki to be allowed to speak to _Madame Royale_,[295]
as he had affairs of great consequence to communicate to her; he
answered, no; and that he had neither desired, nor asked to speak to
any one, except the aforesaid President.
Being asked whether he had not written to _Madame Royale_ from
Padua, to request that she would send him a man to whom he could
confide the real state of things, he answered readily, no; but that
he would tell it as freely, if it had been the case, as he had
avowed that he had always held communication upon the subject of
this affair with the President Turki, from his wish to deceive him,
by sending him word that it would not succeed.
His answers elude, but do not deny all that has been said of him. In
order to account for the communications he has held, he makes use of
the continual pretext, that he was obliged to hold them, in order to
deceive, and to obtain the success of the affair by taking the other
side by surprise; making use, as the means of this surprise, of his
intelligences with the Governor.[294]
[294] The Duchess Regent of Savoy.--See Note, Page 32.
[295] Extracted from the work of M. Roux (Fazillac).
No. 96.
LOUVOIS TO SAINT-MARS.
St. Germain, May 22d, 1679.
I have received your last letter without a date. You must keep the
individual named Lestang in the severe confinement I enjoined in my
preceding letters, without allowing him to see a physician, unless
you know he is in absolute want of one.
One cannot but approve of your plan for preventing the Sieur de
Pressigny from being aware of the residence at Pignerol of M. de
Richemont, to whom I beg you to deliver the letter I send with this.
DE LOUVOIS[296]
[296] From the Archives of France.
No. 97.
CATINAT TO LOUVOIS.
Concluding examination of Matthioli.
Pignerol, June 3d, 1679.
SIR,