Mas. ay. Con^t ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a no. N. C. no.
S. C. ay. Geo. absent
The whole clause as amended was then agreed to nem: con:
12. Resol: "that Nat^l Legislature be empowered to appoint inferior
tribunals"
M^r Butler could see no necessity for such tribunals. The State
Tribunals might do the business.
M^r L. Martin concurred. They will create jealousies & oppositions in
the State tribunals, with the jurisdiction of which they will interfere.
M^r Ghorum. There are in the States already federal Courts with
jurisdiction for trial of piracies &c. committed on the Seas. No
complaints have been made by the States or the Courts of the States.
Inferior tribunals are essential to render the authority of the Nat^l
Legislature effectual.
M^r Randolph observed that the Courts of the States can not be trusted
with the administration of the National laws. The objects of
jurisdiction are such as will often place the General & local policy at
variance.
M^r Gov^r Morris urged also the necessity of such a provision.
M^r Sherman was willing to give the power to the Legislature but wished
them to make use of the State Tribunals whenever it could be done with
safety to the general interest.
Col. Mason thought many circumstances might arise not now to be
foreseen, which might render such a power absolutely necessary.
On question for agreeing to 12. Resol: empowering the National
Legislature to appoint "inferior tribunals," Ag^d to nem. con.
"Impeachments of national officers," were struck out on motion for the
purpose.
13. Resol: "The jurisdiction of the Nat^l Judiciary." Several criticisms
having been made on the definition; it was proposed by M^r Madison so to
alter it as to read thus--"that the jurisdiction shall extend to all
cases arising under the Nat^l laws; And to such other questions as may
involve the Nat^l peace & harmony," which was agreed to, nem. con.
Resol. 14. providing for the admission of new States agreed to, nem.
con.
Resol. 15. that provision ought to be made for the continuance of Cong^s
&c. & for the completion of their engagements."
M^r Gov^r Morris thought the assumption of their engagements might as
well be omitted; and that Cong^s ought not to be continued till all the
States should adopt the reform; since it may become expedient to give
effect to it whenever a certain number of States shall adopt it.
M^r Madison the clause can mean nothing more than that provision ought
to be made for preventing an interregnum; which must exist in the
interval between the adoption of the New Gov^t and the commencement of
its operation, if the old Gov^t should cease on the first of these
events.
M^r Wilson did not entirely approve of the manner in which the clause
relating to the engagements of Cong^s was expressed; but he thought some
provision on the subject would be proper in order to prevent any
suspicion that the obligations of the Confederacy might be dissolved
along with the Govern^t under which they were contracted.
On the question on the 1^{st} part--relating to the continuance of
Cong^s.
Mas. no. Con^t no. P^a no. Del. no. M^d no. V^a ay. N. C. ay.
S. C.[138] ay. Geo. no.
[138] In the printed Journal, S. Carolina--no. Note in Madison's
hand.
The 2^d part as to completion of their engagements, disag^d to, nem.
con.
Resol. 16. "That a Republican Constitution & its existing laws ought to
be guaranteed to each State by the U. States."
M^r Gov^r Morris, thought the Resol: very objectionable. He should be
very unwilling that such laws as exist in R. Island should be
guaranteed.
M^r Wilson. The object is merely to secure the States ag^{st} dangerous
commotions, insurrections and rebellions.
Col. Mason. If the Gen^l Gov^t should have no right to suppress
rebellions ag^{st} particular States, it will be in a bad situation
indeed. As Rebellions ag^{st} itself originate in & ag^{st} individual
States, it must remain a passive Spectator of its own subversion.
M^r Randolph. The Resol^n has 2. objects. 1. to secure a Republican
Government. 2. to suppress domestic commotions. He urged the necessity
of both these provisions.
M^r Madison moved to substitute "that the Constitutional authority of
the States shall be guaranteed to them respectively ag^{st} domestic as
well as foreign violence."
Doc^r McClurg seconded the motion.
M^r Houston was afraid of perpetuating the existing Constitutions of the
States. That of Georgia was a very bad one, and he hoped would be
revised & amended. It may also be difficult for the Gen^l Gov^t to
decide between contending parties each of which claim the sanction of
the Constitution.
M^r L. Martin was for leaving the States to suppress Rebellions
themselves.
M^r Ghorum thought it strange that a Rebellion should be known to exist
in the Empire, and the Gen^l Gov^t sh^d be restrained from interposing
to subdue it. At this rate an enterprising Citizen might erect the
standard of Monarchy in a particular State, might gather together
partizans from all quarters, might extend his views from State to State,
and threaten to establish a tyranny over the whole & the Gen^l Gov^t be
compelled to remain an inactive witness of its own destruction. With
regard to different parties in a State; as long as they confine their
disputes to words, they will be harmless to the Gen^l Gov^t & to each
other. If they appeal to the sword, it will then be necessary for the
Gen^l Gov^t, however difficult it may be to decide on the merits of
their contest, to interpose & put an end to it.
M^r Carrol. Some such provision is essential. Every State ought to wish
for it. It has been doubted whether it is a casus federis at the
present. And no room ought to be left for such a doubt hereafter.
M^r Randolph moved to add as an amend^t to the motion; "and that no
State be at liberty to form any other than a Republican Gov^t." M^r
Madison seconded the motion.
M^r Rutlidge thought it unnecessary to insert any guarantee. No doubt
could be entertained but that Cong^s had the authority if they had the
means to co-operate with any State in subduing a rebellion. It was &
would be involved in the nature of the thing.
M^r Wilson moved as a better expression of the idea, "that a Republican
form of Governm^t shall be guaranteed to each State & that each State
shall be protected ag^{st} foreign & domestic violence.
This seeming to be well received, M^r Madison & M^r Randolph withdrew
their propositions & on the Question for agreeing to M^r Wilson's
motion, it passed nem. con.
Adj^d.