Mr. J. RANDOLPH observed that some time had elapsed since he gave notice
that he should call up his resolution for amending the Constitution of
the United States. The state of his health had not admitted of his taking
his seat before this day. He therefore availed himself of the first
opportunity to move that the House should resolve itself into a Committee
of the Whole on the state of the Union, with the view of taking that
resolution into consideration.
Mr. MASTERS moved a postponement.
The SPEAKER said there could be no postponement of a subject referred to
a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, as it was in order
every day to take up business so referred.
Mr. J. RANDOLPH said, if gentlemen were unprepared, he had no objection
to waive his call until to-morrow.
The SPEAKER remarked that there could be no debate on the priority of
business.
Mr. CONRAD moved to discharge the Committee of the Whole from the further
consideration of the resolution. He said he would briefly assign his
reasons for this motion. The session had progressed and the season
was fast approaching when every man of agricultural pursuits would be
anxious to attend to them, unless detained by important business. He
did not believe the proposed amendment to the constitution so important
as to require immediate attention. He hoped, therefore, that it would
be postponed until the next session, and that the way would thereby be
paved for transacting the important national business that claimed their
earliest attention.
The SPEAKER said the first question was on the House resolving itself
into a Committee of the Whole.
The question was taken on this motion, and carried--yeas 61.
Mr. GREGG was called to the Chair, and the resolution having been read,
as follows:
_Resolved, by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America, in Congress assembled, two-thirds
of both Houses concurring_, That the following article
be submitted to the Legislatures of the several States,
which, when ratified and confirmed by the Legislatures of
three-fourths of the said States, shall be valid and binding as
a part of the Constitution of the United States:
The Judges of the Supreme and all other Courts of the United
States shall be removed from office by the President, on the
joint address of both Houses of Congress requesting the same.
The committee divided on agreeing to it, without debate--yeas 51, nays 55.
The committee then rose, and reported their disagreement to the
resolution.
The House having agreed to consider the report,
Mr. J. RANDOLPH called for the taking the yeas and nays on the question
of concurrence.
Mr. CLARK moved a postponement of the consideration of the report to
the third Monday of March, merely with the view of making it give place
to more important business, which he said must be attended to. He said
he had voted against the resolution, not because he was inimical to the
principle involved in it. With a small modification, he should be in
favor of it; and he hoped the period was not distant when, with such a
modification, it would become a part of the constitution.
Mr. J. RANDOLPH hoped a postponement to so distant a day would not
prevail. He was himself desirous that it should be postponed for a few
days, in order to give notice to the House, that there might be a full
vote on what he considered a most important measure. He appeared in
this instance, as in many others, to be in a state of profound error.
The amendment, or deterioration of the constitution, he had always
considered to be a point of the greatest importance. But now, judging
by the opinions of gentlemen, it seemed to be of lesser importance than
the laying a duty of one or two per cent., to continue but for two or
three years. It has, said Mr. R., been a subject of extreme concern to
me, though not myself able to attend to the public business, to find, on
inquiring daily of my colleagues, that the House has refused to do any
business, because on a future day they expected some important business
to come before them. I understand that a very important resolution of a
gentleman from Pennsylvania, on a business so generally denominated the
Yazoo as to require no other name, was postponed on the same ground that
my colleague now wishes the resolution under consideration postponed.
If there is such important business to transact, in God’s name, why not
progress in it? But notwithstanding this immensely important business,
which serves as an excuse for doing nothing, we make no progress in it,
if by it I am to understand the state of our foreign relations. I have
no wish, nor do I intend to allude to any thing which passed while we
were sitting in conclave. But I did hope, when one or two members, who
were represented as the only hindrances to the despatch of business,
were withdrawn from the House for one or two weeks, every thing would
have been completed. I expected the adoption of very different measures
towards Great Britain. Instead of this, I find nothing done. And now,
when an amendment to the constitution is brought forward, which is
allowed to be very important, and when the resolution of the gentleman
from Pennsylvania is called up, we are told by gentlemen, we cannot
attend to these subjects; there is important business which we expect to
have at some future day before us, and therefore we are determined in the
interim to do nothing.
One word as to the remark of the gentleman on my left, (Mr. CONRAD.)
He belongs to a class of men which I highly respect, for the plain
reason that I belong to it myself. He says, the time is approaching
when every man engaged in agricultural pursuits must be anxious to go
home, and therefore he does not wish at present to act on the resolution
I have laid on your table. True; but when men, be they agricultural,
mechanical, or of any other profession, undertake any business, it is
their duty to go through with it at every hazard. I do not know a man in
the House who has suffered more than the individual who now addresses
you by his attendance here, and if I could have found an apology in
my own mind, I should long since have been gone. If the situation of
affairs warranted it, I should be willing to adjourn for two or three
months. But I never can agree to adjourn in the present perilous state
of affairs, and leave the country to a blind and fortuitous destiny.
I must first see something like land, some foot-hold, something like
certainty, instead of a political chaos, without form or body. Before
I consent to go home, I must see something like a safe and honorable
issue to our differences with foreign powers; and I must see, I hope,
another thing--something like an attempt to bring the constitution of
this people back to the principles on which this Administration came
into power.[33] I take this proposition, and that of the gentleman from
Maryland, (Mr. NICHOLSON,) to be two important means of bringing that
Administration back to those principles. My friend from Virginia says, he
expects, at a future period, to obtain this reform. I fear, if delay be
permitted, that we shall get into the situation of another deliberative
assembly, of which every member agrees that reform is necessary, but that
the present is not the accepted time. I am afraid that we are in this
situation already. I believe it, because I see it. It is a most fortunate
circumstance that we made hay while the sun shone; that we got in the
harvest at the first session of the seventh Congress; that we did away
the midnight judiciary and the internal taxes. If those institutions were
now standing, I believe they would be as impregnable as any part of the
system around which gentlemen affect to rally. I believe it, because I
believe appointments would have their effect. Yes, it is but too true,
that patriots, in opposition, are as apt to become courtiers in power, as
courtiers in power are fond of becoming patriots in opposition. So far,
then, from wishing to postpone this measure, I believe that delay will
only serve to enhance the difficulty of obtaining it. It is a maxim laid
down by every man that has written on national policy, that those abuses
which are left untouched in the period of a revolution, are sanctified
by time, and remain as the nest-eggs of future corruption, until they
compel a nation, either to sweep them away, or to sink beneath them.
This, without any exception, is the history of all corruptions; and those
corruptions and abuses not reformed at the first session of the seventh
Congress, what has become of them? Have they been suffered to sleep? If
they have, is it not to be apprehended that they will rise refreshed
from their slumbers with gigantic strength? Fortunate it was that, at
the first session of the seventh Congress the midnight judiciary and the
internal taxes were done away; and it would likewise have been fortunate,
if another measure had been attended to at the same time. It would have
been, in my firm persuasion, very different in its issue from that which
it has been. If the great culprit, whose judicial crimes or incapacity
had called for legislative punishment under the constitution, and which
have given rise to the motion now before us, had been accused at the
first session of the seventh Congress, that accusation would have had a
very different issue. And why? Because it is perfectly immaterial what
a man’s crimes are--every day that elapses between their commission and
the time he is called to answer, lessens the detestation and horror felt
for them, and, of course, enhances the value of his chance of an escape
from punishment. I am persuaded that, in the remarks I have offered, I
have been hurried into some observations that do not strictly belong
to it. Yet these remarks furnish a sound reason for not deferring the
proposition until the time moved by my colleague. I hope, therefore, the
House will reject the postponement until the third Monday of March, and
that a postponement will take place to some time when the House shall be
fuller, when a decision can be made after mature reflection. For, truly,
as to the provision under the constitution, can any man be so mad or
foolish as to think of again trying it? I consider the decision of the
last session as having established this principle--that an officer of the
United States may act in as corrupt a manner as he pleases, without there
being any constitutional provision to call him to an account.
Mr. GREGG.--I feel but little concerned as to the fate of this motion. I
am ready at any time to give my vote on the resolution. As it now stands,
I shall vote against it; but modified, as I have seen it in the hands of
a gentleman from Virginia, I shall vote for it. But my principal reason
for rising, is to say that a great part of the censure cast on the House
by the gentleman from Virginia for not meeting the national business, is
proper and applicable; and I regret that it is so. But if the gentleman
reflects on the subject, he will acknowledge that a great part of the
delay which has occurred, attaches to himself. I, four weeks ago,
submitted a resolution to the House on some points of dispute between
one of the belligerent nations and the United States; I was anxious
that it should be taken up and promptly decided, one way or another.
The gentleman from Virginia then called for certain statements from the
Treasury, which he considered as having a bearing on the subject. Under
that impression the consideration of the resolution was deferred from day
to day; and the statements have not yet been received. I stated, at the
time, that these statements could have no influence on my vote; but other
gentlemen said, they would influence theirs. I regret that we have not
been able to go on with this business. I do not know how long we are to
be kept in this paralytic state. If the gentleman who has called for the
statements, and other gentlemen will agree, I am prepared at once to go
into an examination of the subject. But, as the gentleman from Virginia
was the first to embark the House in this call, I hope he will take a
part of the censure to himself.
Mr. SMILIE.--I am sorry the motion of postponement has been made. I do
not know any other time better than the present for the discussion of
this subject. It is a subject of the last importance to the peace and
happiness of the United States. I am a friend to an amendment of the
constitution relative to the Judiciary Department. Whether that offered
is the best that can be made, or whether it is going too far, I cannot
determine until the subject shall have been investigated in this House.
For my part, I am so sensible that that part of the constitution which
relates to the power of impeachment is a nullity, that I see the utmost
necessity for an amendment. From what we have seen, I do religiously
believe that we cannot convict any man on an impeachment. The resolution
before you goes to place the Judges of the United States on the same
independent footing with those of Great Britain. Whether our situation
requires that they should stand upon higher ground, is a proper subject
for discussion. I am rather inclined to think they ought not.[34] It is
contended, it is true, that, as they have, according to the opinion of
some gentlemen, the right of sitting in judgment on our laws, they ought
to be placed beyond the reach of a majority of Congress. This subject
must, at some time or other, be considered, and some amendment in the
constitution must take place. When the delays and various vexations,
attendant on an impeachment, are considered, it will be evident that
they will generally discourage the House from taking this step; and when
it is likewise considered that a conviction can only take place on the
votes of two-thirds of the Senate, let gentlemen say whether there is any
chance of making the constitutional provision effectual. I despair of it.
With regard to the particular modification which may be given to this
resolution, that is another thing. I sincerely wish the House would take
it up and consider it without any great delay.
Mr. CLARK.--I hope my colleague will do me the justice to believe that
I have not made this motion from hostility to his resolution. With a
small modification, I am decidedly for it. I assure him it did not
require the remarks he has made to-day, to show the insufficiency of
the present system. Of that I had satisfactory proof the last year. But
I doubt whether the resolution, in its present state, is correct. I do
hope that my colleague will give it a little more consideration, and I
assure him I shall be happy to harmonize with him. In the decision by a
mere majority, the scales of justice are so near an equilibrium, that it
is doubtful often to which side justice inclines. I, therefore, think
there ought to be some modification of the principle contained in the
resolution. But I principally wish the postponement to prevail, that the
House may act on resolutions which I conceive all-important to the whole
country, and peculiarly so to that part of the community represented by
my colleague and myself. Every day’s delay increases the difficulty and
urges on the ruin that menaces them. It is well known that there is not
the best harmony between the merchants and planters. It is at all times
the interest of the former to buy produce as cheap as they can, and never
was there a better scheme for speculation to them than that furnished by
the resolutions on our table. How easy it is for them to convince the
planter that there will be a suppression of intercourse, and that his
produce will be soon worth nothing. These are the effects that I wish to
prevent. My colleague will do me the justice to believe that I have had
no hand in the procrastination. I have offered no project. With regard to
the proposed amendment to the constitution, I repeat it, I am in favor of
it, with a small modification. Nor do I wish it postponed for any great
length of time. I have no idea of leaving that to be done by our children
which we ought to do ourselves.
Mr. FINDLAY said he was against the indefinite postponement of the
subject, though in favor of its being postponed a short time. He thought
it was a subject which ought to be fully investigated. He was decidedly
in favor of the object of the resolution, but in a different form.
Mr. CONRAD was in favor of the indefinite postponement of the resolution.
He did not think the subject ought to be acted upon at this session. He
was not unfriendly to the principle, but he never could consent that a
bare majority of Congress should have the power to remove a judge. If the
amendment was so framed as to give the President a discretionary power
to remove a judge on the address of a majority of the two Houses, and to
make the removal imperative on the vote of two-thirds, he might be for
it. At any rate he thought it best to postpone the subject until the next
session.
Mr. J. RANDOLPH.--I am as anxious as any man for a decision of the
question implicated in several of the resolutions laid on our table, and
for a good reason. My tobacco is unsold. I feel the full force of the
observations of my colleague. I know that these resolutions have already
given rise to much nefarious speculation. When I called for information,
I had no idea of the time it would take to get it; and had I been
apprised of it, I do not know whether I should not have preferred acting
in the dark to waiting for it.
There is another reason why I wish this subject (amendment to the
constitution) taken up at this session. When I offered this resolution
at the last session, it was said to be too near the close of the session
to act upon it--this was acknowledged. But, it was said, print it and
let it go abroad. This has been done. But the reason for which I wish
it acted upon this session is, that the elections intervene between
this and the next session. Gentlemen may say what they please of the
principle of _quamdiu bene se gesserit_, but I believe if the members of
this House held their seats for seven years, their conduct would not be
the same as it is under the present tenure. I wish to recur to that good
old principle that sends the Representative back to render an account of
his actions to his constituents. After the next election gentlemen will
obtain credit for two years more of good behavior. I believe my friend
from Virginia will allow this to be a good reason against a postponement.
As gentlemen have stated the substance of the resolution as a reason
for its postponement, I will state its substance as a reason for not
postponing it. One gentleman says he will not consent that the judges
shall hold their offices subject to the will of a bare majority of
the two Houses. But does not every thing of importance depend on that
majority? Do they not appropriate millions? Do they not hold the purse
and the sword? Or do gentlemen think the woolsack more important? This
is most indubitably the case; and I wish to hear any reasoning against
giving efficiency to the will of a majority that does not approximate
the doctrine of the Polish veto. There can be no reason for this
distinction. And, so far from there being danger of this power being
abused, the experience of all Governments holds me out in saying that
there is greater danger that the power will not be exercised than that it
will be abused. For this plain reason: it would require some overt act
of notorious misconduct, or an equally notorious imbecility of mind or
body, to justify any man in giving such a vote. It is a point of extreme
delicacy to give it; and though some men might, I trust a majority of
both branches never would give such a vote for light and frivolous
reasons. But it may be thought that, as in all free Governments there
are parties, a triumphant party would turn out the judges to get into
their places. This would be a most humiliating effect. But on what is
the probability of such an effect founded? How are the turners out to be
turned in? Have they the power to appoint themselves to office? No. And
from our experience heretofore, no such inference can be drawn. There
is no probability of one triumphant faction putting down another to get
their offices. Because a triumphant faction could not rise to power but
at the will of a majority; and although they might take offices away from
others, they could not bestow them upon themselves. But suppose they did?
It would be for the first and last time. It would be a struggle between
office-hunters and the people; and I believe all the experience we have
heretofore had shows that this description of men are too prone to union
for the public to sustain either profit or loss from their divisions.
But if in this opinion I am in error, I would recur back to my first
principle to support me. Is the power to remove a judge more important
than the power of declaring war, of laying taxes, and of effecting
various other national objects? This is a doctrine to me totally
unintelligible.
Mr. SMILIE observed that he regretted that the motion for an indefinite
postponement had been made, as it was equivalent to a rejection of the
resolution.
The question was then taken, by yeas and nays, on an indefinite
postponement, and passed in the negative--yeas 42, nays 81, as follows:
YEAS.--Willis Alston, jun., Barnabas Bidwell, Phanuel Bishop,
James M. Broom, Martin Chittenden, Frederick Conrad, Orchard
Cook, Richard Cutts, Samuel W. Dana, Ezra Darby, John
Davenport, jun., Peter Early, Caleb Ellis, Ebenezer Elmer,
William Ely, James Fisk, Seth Hastings, William Helms, David
Hough, Joseph Levis, jun., Henry W. Livingston, Josiah Masters,
Jonathan O. Mosely, Gurdon S. Mumford, Jeremiah Nelson, Timothy
Pitkin, jun., John Pugh, Josiah Quincy, Martin G. Schuneman,
John Cotton Smith, William Stedman, Lewis B. Sturges, Samuel
Taggart, Benjamin Tallmadge, Samuel Tenney, Thomas W.
Thompson, Killian K. Van Rensselaer, Joseph B. Varnum, Daniel
C. Verplanck, Peleg Wadsworth, Eliphalet Wickes, and Nathan
Williams.
NAYS.--Evan Alexander, Isaac Anderson, David Bard, Joseph
Barker, Burwell Bassett, George M. Bedinger, William
Blackledge, John Blake, jun., Thomas Blount, Robert Brown, John
Boyle, William Butler, George W. Campbell, John Campbell, Levi
Casey, John Chandler, John Claiborne, Christopher Clark, Joseph
Clay, Matthew Clay, George Clinton, jun., Jacob Crowninshield,
John Dawson, William Dickson, Elias Earle, James Elliot, John
W. Eppes, William Findlay, John Fowler, James M. Garnett,
Peterson Goodwyn, Andrew Gregg, Isaiah L. Green, Silas Halsey,
John Hamilton, David Holmes, John G. Jackson, Walter Jones,
Thomas Kenan, Michael Leib, Matthew Lyon, Duncan McFarland,
Patrick Magruder, Robert Marion, William McCreery, David
Meriwether, Nicholas R. Moore, Thomas Moore, Jeremiah Morrow,
John Morrow, Thomas Newton, jun., Joseph H. Nicholson,
Gideon Olin, John Randolph, Thomas M. Randolph, John Rea
of Pennsylvania, John Rhea of Tennessee, Jacob Richards,
John Russell, Peter Sailly, Thomas Sammons, Thomas Sanford,
Ebenezer Seaver, James Sloan, John Smilie, John Smith, Samuel
Smith, Henry Southard, Thomas Spalding, Richard Stanford,
Joseph Stanton, David Thomas, Uri Tracy, Matthew Walton, John
Whitehill, Robert Whitehill, David R. Williams, Marmaduke
Williams, Alexander Wilson, Richard Wynn, and Thomas Wynns.
Mr. CLARK then varied his motion so as to postpone the resolution to the
second Monday in March--varied to next Monday, and carried.
_Exclusion of Contractors from Seats in the House--Prohibition of
Plurality of Offices--Disjunction of Military and Naval with Civil
Appointments._
Mr. J. RANDOLPH.--I beg leave to submit a motion to the House--a very
important motion--which at present I only mean to lay on the table. The
Constitution of the United States has provided that no person holding
an office under the Government of the United States shall be capable
of holding a seat in either House of Congress. But as the best things
are liable to corruption, and as we are told the corruption of the best
things is always the worst, so the Constitution of the United States
has received in practice a construction which in my judgment the text
never did and does not warrant, but which, if warranted by the text,
is totally repugnant to the spirit of that instrument, which, composed
of the jarring interests of the different States, and settled on the
basis of compromise, gave birth to a Government of responsibility,
without influence, without patronage, without abuse, without privileges,
attached to any individual, class, or order of men. It could not have
been the object of such an instrument, that while a man holding an
office not exceeding the value of fifty dollars, should be excluded
from a seat in this House, a contractor living on the fat of the land
should be capable under the constitution of holding one. Look through
the whole of the constitution, and say where such a privilege is to be
found. You find there the single principle of republicanism, that he
who has the influence derived from power and money shall not have a
place in the council of the nation--that placemen and pensioners shall
not come on this floor. While this principle scrupulously excludes men
holding responsible offices--men known to the whole world--shall it be
considered as permitting contractors to creep in through the crevices of
the constitution, and devour the goods of the people? Such a departure
from the spirit, if not from the letter of the constitution--such a
gross evasion of principle--calls aloud for remedy. Can a man who holds
a contract for fifty or a hundred thousand dollars give an independent
vote on this floor? If so, why not admit the Chief Justice and other high
officers under the Government to a seat here? Is it for any other reason,
but that the constitution will not permit the influence derived from
office to operate here?
The constitution may be tried by another test. It was made for the good
of the people under it, and not for those who administer it. It was never
intended to be made a job of, and I hope it never will be suffered by the
people to be made a job of. I think it is contrary to the tenor of the
constitution to hold a plurality of office. We some time since received a
petition from a learned institution to exempt books imported by them from
duty. What did we say on that occasion? We said, no; we cannot exempt
your books from duty. All must conform to the laws. There is no man too
high or too low for them. The same measure must be meted to all. To my
extreme surprise, I see a practice even more repugnant to the spirit of
the constitution than a contractor sitting in Congress; and that is, a
union of civil and military authority in one person--a union more fatal
to a free nation than the union of Executive, Legislative, and Judicial
powers.
Having made these remarks, Mr. R. offered the following resolutions,
which were referred to a Committee of the whole House on Tuesday next:--
“Whereas it is provided by the sixth section of the first
article of the Constitution of the United States, that ‘no
person holding any office under the United States shall be a
member of either House of Congress during his continuance in
office;’ therefore,
“1. _Resolved_, That a contractor under the Government of the
United States is an officer within the purview and meaning of
the constitution, and, as such, is incapable of holding a seat
in this House.
“2. _Resolved_, That the union of a plurality of offices in
the person of a single individual, but more especially of the
military with the civil authority, is repugnant to the spirit
of the Constitution of the United States, and tends to the
introducing of an arbitrary government.
“3. _Resolved_, That provision ought to be made by law to
render any officer in the Army or Navy of the United States
incapable of holding any civil office under the United States.”
THURSDAY, February 27.
_Importation of Slaves._
An engrossed bill for imposing a tax of ten dollars on all slaves
hereafter imported into the United States was read the third time.
A motion was made, and the question being put, that the farther
consideration of the said bill be postponed indefinitely, it passed in
the negative--yeas 42, nays 69.
On motion,
_Ordered_, That the said bill be recommitted to Mr. SLOAN, Mr. FISK,
Mr. EPPES, Mr. QUINCY, Mr. J. C. SMITH, Mr. J. CLAY, and Mr. MARION.
_Prize Money._