Mr. NICHOLSON called for the yeas and nays.
The question was then taken, “Is the decision of the Chair correct?” And
it was determined in the affirmative--yeas 81, nays 34.
Mr. LYON, upon this, immediately said, I give up my right; and would not
proceed.
Mr. ELLIOT.--However surprising it may appear to some gentlemen, it is
not so to me, that the language of innocence should be warm and pointed.
We have been told that the letter is couched in disrespectful terms.
For my part, I cannot perceive any thing of the kind in it; and I am
surprised that, as it respects the gentleman who made the charges against
him, that he is so moderate. Gentlemen have said that an inquiry would
be of no service; because, if the charges are true, the officer cannot
be impeached. If gentlemen will advert to the constitution they will
find that “all civil officers are liable to impeachment,” and removal
from office. Surely it will not be contended that the Postmaster-General
is not a civil officer. The gentleman from Maryland (Mr. NICHOLSON)
differs very widely from his friend from Virginia (Mr. RANDOLPH) as to
the Postmaster-General. The former considers him as holding an office
too insignificant to be dignified with an impeachment, while the latter
deems his patronage and influence sufficient to influence or to bribe the
majority of this House. However insignificant the gentleman from Maryland
may think the Postmaster-General, still he is a civil officer, and as
such is liable to be impeached, and removed from office. We have been
told that a combination has taken place between some of those who have
avowed themselves republicans and the federalists, and that the liberties
of the country will be endangered. Sir, we have no danger to apprehend
from monarchists, aristocrats, or federalists.
Our liberty can only be endangered by those description of persons
against whom the gentleman from New York (Mr. ROOT) so emphatically
exclaimed--I mean political demagogues and popular leaders! They have
been the curse and destruction of every Republic, and I fear will be our
destruction. We are cursed with them in this country, and even in this
House. But I trust that the majority of this House are opposed to them.
The great objection which gentlemen make to the inquiry is, that the
letter is couched in too disrespectful terms. Will they please to bear
in mind the charges made against the officer, and, viewing them, is it
not a matter of astonishment that he is so mild? As the letter respects
this House, it is remarkably respectful. Upon what ground, then, can
the investigation be refused? If the charges made are true, the officer
ought to be removed; if untrue, this House ought in justice to him
whose character has been so assailed to declare that they are so. The
gentleman from Virginia (Mr. RANDOLPH) informed us yesterday that the
Postmaster-General kept in his pay a jackall, who went prowling about
this desolate city at midnight, when honest men ought to be asleep,
offering bribes to the members. Sir, the gentleman must have keen optics
to discover this jackall, when he is asleep; for he informs us that
he only goes about when honest men ought to be asleep; and surely the
gentleman is one of that description. Upon every view which I can take of
this subject, I can see no objection to the inquiry, but the strongest
reason in its favor; and justice demands that it should be made.
Mr. NELSON would offer a few remarks to the House, why he was opposed to
the motion. He would not undertake to give an opinion as to the character
of the Postmaster-General, or whether the charges made against him could
be substantiated. His objection was, that the House had nothing to do
with charges made by a member against any individual. If the charges were
true, the President (and not the House) was the proper person to apply
to, to remove the officer. But it had been said that the House had the
power to impeach all civil officers, and, therefore, could impeach the
Postmaster-General. But because the House was invested with that power,
he asked whether they were bound to exercise it? Surely not. And he
hoped they would not, when they could get rid of the officer by a more
summary mode. Late experience had taught them the trouble and expense
attendant on impeachments, and he trusted that no officer would ever be
impeached that could be removed by the President. It would be better to
let them remain in office, although guilty of misbehavior, than to spend
so much time as they would be obliged to do in cases of impeachment.
Suppose the motion should be agreed to, and the committee appointed, he
asked what power they would possess? Were they to declare whether the
charges were true or false? A determination either way would have no
effect upon the House, because they could not, he trusted, impeach the
officer. He was not disposed to do any thing to hurt the character of
the Postmaster-General, but he would not give his sanction to a measure
which would spend so much of the time of the House in deciding what he
considered an affair of private honor and private feelings between two
gentlemen. He also considered that the adoption of the resolution would
pass a censure upon the gentleman who made the charges, and he asked
whether the House were disposed to censure one of its members for any
warm and unguarded expressions about an officer of the Government? He
trusted not. How many times had charges been made in the House against
the President of the United States; but that officer had never thought it
proper to apply to the House for an inquiry into his conduct; nor did the
House ever pass a vote of censure on the members who made them. He looked
upon this as a question of dispute between two gentlemen, and no tribunal
could be erected in the House to decide on it. He should, therefore, vote
against the motion of the gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. VARNUM,) and
hoped it would not prevail.
Mr. HUGER knew not what was the opinion of any gentleman as to the
merits of the question, but he was satisfied that a calm decision of
it could not take place at that time. They were about to establish a
precedent, which might be of importance, and it ought to be done after
the utmost deliberation. He called upon gentlemen to say, whether it
was possible that a calm and impartial decision could be given after so
much irritation had been displayed in the debate? In order to afford an
opportunity to gentlemen to give the subject a cool and dispassionate
investigation, he moved to postpone the further consideration thereof
until Monday.
The question was taken thereon, and determined in the affirmative--yeas
93.
The resolution (Mr. Varnum’s motion to refer Mr. Granger’s letter to a
select committee) was never after called up.
_Georgia Claims._
The unfinished business of yesterday on the Yazoo claims was resumed--the
amendment offered by Mr. CLARK, under consideration.
Mr. HOLMES observed that as he was a member of the Committee of Claims,
from whom the report under consideration emanated, he thought it his duty
to state to the House the part he acted on that occasion. I was, said
Mr. H., in all our deliberations upon this subject, decidedly opposed
to the adoption of the report, and in every stage of its progression
used all fair means in my power to produce a different result; in this,
however, I was unsuccessful. My conduct was governed by a firm conviction
that the present claimants had no right in law or equity to the lands in
question, and that policy did not demand the interference of the National
Legislature. Most of the arguments that operated upon my mind then, and
will influence my vote now, have been adduced by gentlemen who preceded
me. It is not my intention to detain the House with a repetition of them;
one or two, however, have occurred to me as worthy of consideration, that
have not been urged. This must be my apology for addressing you after
the able and lengthy discussion the subject has received. I am of the
opinion, Mr. Speaker, that the Legislature of Georgia, of 1795, were not
authorized to dispose of the lands in question, even if they had been
honestly inclined to do so.
Mr. MATTHEW LYON.--From the drift of the speeches delivered by the
member from Virginia, from his call for the Postmaster-General’s report
of a list of his contracts, and from the invitation he has given to an
examination of that report, I am led to consider it a duty I owe to
myself, in this House, and in the face of the world, to take up that
report, and explain the nature of the contracts which there appear
in my name. I find my name seven times mentioned in that report: the
first is in the 12th page, for a contract for carrying the mail from
Cincinnati to Detroit; the second in the same page, and is from Marietta
to Cincinnati; these two contracts I never solicited or bid for, but the
Postmaster-General having advertised for proposals, and having received
none that he thought reasonable, they being new routes and to be let for
one year only, he wrote to me offering the price they stand there at,
and I undertook to get the business done. For the performance of the
latter contract I gave every cent I received, and without saving one
penny for a great deal of trouble, risk, and perplexity, I had taken upon
myself to get it effected. From the other I saved a few dollars toward
paying me for the care, trouble, and responsibility I had sustained
on the occasion. Long before these contracts were out, I informed the
Postmaster-General that I should take neither of them again, and the
contract from Cincinnati to Detroit was let to another person at $105 60
more than was given to me; this may be seen in the 22d line of page 20 of
the same report.
The third time my name is mentioned is in the same 12th page, and is from
Hartford to Fort Massac, a distance of about 180 or 190 miles, for which
$654 75 is paid; out of this $65 is to be paid for ferriage. For some
parts of this route I am obliged to give much more than a proportionate
share of what I receive; some other parts I give a trifle less; sometimes
my own horses carry the mail. I cannot with precision tell what is lost
or gained in it, but it cannot be $50 either way. The fourth contract is
also in the same page, it is from Russelsville to Eddygrove, or, rather,
Eddyville; it is 80 miles, for which $240 is paid; this is as low if
not lower than the price given any where south or west of this place,
and I give to the person who performs it the whole amount of what I
receive. The fifth and sixth time my name is mentioned in that report is
in the 28th page--those are merely a renewal of the two last-mentioned
contracts, which had expired in 1803; all of those contracts were made
before I was elected to my present seat in this House, before I had the
pleasure of a personal acquaintance with the present Postmaster-General,
and before I ever spoke with him.
The seventh contract is noticed in the last page of the
Postmaster-General’s report, which is from Massac to New Madrid, from
Kaskaskias to Girardeau, from Cahoka to St. Louis, a distance of more
than 200 miles, for $515, out of which more than $150 must be paid for
ferriage, at the rate ferriages stood at the time of the contract.
This is the true history of the contracts by which it is insinuated
that the Postmaster-General has bribed me. I never was bribed, sir;
it is not all the lands and negroes my accuser owns that could tempt
me to do a thing which honor or conscience dictated to me to avoid. I
could, sir, if it was pertinent, show how the over-vigilance of the
present Postmaster-General has deprived me of the benefit of the only
profitable contract I ever made with the Government--a contract made
with his predecessor which he very improperly, in my opinion, considered
void on account of some words in it not being exactly consonant with
the intention of the contracting parties; believing, however, that the
Postmaster-General designed to do what he thought right, he has not lost
my esteem, nor do I think his character can be injured by the braying of
a jackall or the fulminations of a madman.[25]
Mr. J. CLAY.--It was not my intention to have troubled the House with any
observations on the subject, but I think a view may be taken different
from any exhibited by the gentlemen who have preceded me. Some of the
gentlemen who have advocated the appropriation of the land to satisfy
the New England Mississippi Land Company, have been content to rest the
claim upon the ground of policy. They have said that if some mode should
not be taken to satisfy the Yazoo speculators, they would be incessantly
troubling Congress. If these men have any title, it must be by right
of pre-emption; and yet that title it was not practicable for them to
acquire, as the State of Georgia could not extinguish the Indian title.
Notwithstanding, however, their imbecility, the Legislature of Georgia,
of 1796, undertook to grant an estate in fee simple. It will require more
time to examine this question, and perhaps more abilities than I possess;
but I cannot conceive how Georgia had a pre-emption title to the land,
while the Indian title still existed. The Congress of the United States
possessed the sole power of extinguishing the Indian title to lands
within their territories; no individual State has either the right or the
power of extinguishing the Indian title to any lands they may claim. Of
course, Georgia had no right to grant a title in fee simple.
We are told of the policy of compromising with these speculators, and
that they are innocent purchasers. How are they so? Are they not the
very men who purchased a fraudulent claim, and does not their deed carry
on the face of it a proof that they knew it to be fraudulent? There is
also a strange coincidence: These people’s deeds are dated February
13th, 1796, the very day that the rescinding act was passed, but these
instruments were not all executed until May following. [Here Mr. J.
Clay read several passages from the pamphlet published by the agents of
the New England Yazoo Company, and compared them with the resolution of
Congress passed on that subject, from which he inferred an acknowledgment
of the present claimants, that they purchased a disputed title.] He went
on to state that Governor Strong, who was at that time a Senator of
the United States, was made acquainted with the whole transaction; and
it could not but be presumed that he and the Massachusetts delegation
communicated to their constituents the circumstance.
The general notoriety of the fraud, said Mr. CLAY, is such as to convince
any man that the present claimants are not innocent purchasers. The very
conditions under which they purchased, demonstrate this. They undertake
to stand in the shoes of men who had defrauded the State of Georgia
through a corrupt Legislature, and when they paid their money, they
conditioned that it should not be repaid them, by reason of any defect in
the title. The petitioners take it for granted, that, whatever was the
fate of the original compact, though bottomed in fraud and consequently
null, they have no other resource than in the mercy of this House. Why
did they make that stipulation in their deed? Why not take a general
warrantee? If the deeds had been executed in the usual manner, they
could have recovered their money from the party who had practised upon
them. But, notwithstanding that article, I still think they should have
recourse to the original grantees; let them go to them, and a court of
equity will do them justice.
I have no idea of supporting questions of property upon grounds of mere
policy; I shall never be inclined to squander millions of the public
money, because a gang of swindling speculators may enter this House
and prove troublesome to its members. The agents of these men have
accidentally acknowledged that they cannot extinguish the Indian title,
and, therefore, they cannot get possession of the land. What is a man
to get by a contract, when it is impossible to comply with the terms?
I was in hopes, that the representation from the State of Pennsylvania
would have been unanimous on this question: they ought to know, from the
salutary experience of their own State respecting land speculations,
whether it relates to the Connecticut, Susquehanna, or Delaware
Companies, who have kept a part of our State in a continual broil for
fifty years, while another set of men, under the garb of the Population
and Holland companies, have thrown their warrants over the north-western
corner of the State, and are likely to defeat the great objects which
the Legislature had in view, when they disposed of the lands to actual
settlers alone. I trust, however, that they will be defeated, and that
the courts of justice will determine the case in the manner in which it
was recently decided. I regret that the oldest member of Congress from
our State, should, at this late hour, abandon those republican principles
which he has so long and so ably maintained, to support a band of Yazoo
speculators. For my part, I must be an altered man indeed, if I ever
consent to a compromise with a gang of speculators holding a title
founded in fraud and speculation.
The yeas and nays were then taken on the resolution of the Committee of
Claims, and decided in the affirmative--yeas 63, nays 58, as follows:
YEAS.--Willis Alston, jun., Simeon Baldwin, Silas Betton,
Phanuel Bishop, Adam Boyd, John Boyle, John Campbell,
William Chamberlin, Martin Chittenden, Clifton Claggett,
Jacob Crowninshield, Manasseh Cutler, Richard Cutts, Samuel
W. Dana, John Davenport, John Dawson, John Dennis, William
Dickson, Thomas Dwight, James Elliot, Ebenezer Elmer, William
Eustis, William Findlay, John Fowler, Calvin Goddard, Gaylord
Griswold, Roger Griswold, Seth Hastings, William Helms, John
Hoge, James Holland, David Hough, Benjamin Huger, Samuel Hunt,
John G. Jackson, Nehemiah Knight, Simon Larned, Joseph Lewis,
jr., Henry W. Livingston, Thomas Lowndes, Matthew Lyon, Nahum
Mitchell, Jeremiah Morrow, James Mott, Thomas Plater, Samuel
D. Purviance, Erastus Root, Henry Southard, Joseph Stanton,
William Stedman, James Stephenson, Samuel Taggart, Benjamin
Tallmadge, Samuel Tenney, Samuel Thatcher, David Thomas, George
Tibbits, Killian K. Van Rensselaer, Joseph B. Varnum, Peleg
Wadsworth, Matthew Walton, Lemuel Williams, and Marmaduke
Williams.
NAYS.--Isaac Anderson, David Bard, George Michael Bedinger,
William Blackledge, Walter Bowie, Robert Brown, Joseph Bryan,
William Butler, Levi Casey, Thomas Claiborne, Christopher
Clark, Joseph Clay, Matthew Clay, John Clopton, Frederick
Conrad, John B. Earle, John W. Eppes, Peterson Goodwyn, Andrew
Gregg, Thomas Griffin, John A. Hanna, Josiah Hasbrouck, Joseph
Heister, David Holmes, Walter Jones, William Kennedy, Michael
Leib, John B. C. Lucas, Andrew McCord, David Meriwether,
Nicholas R. Moore, Thomas Moore, Roger Nelson, Anthony New,
Thomas Newton, jr., Joseph H. Nicholson, Gideon Olin, Beriah
Palmer, John Randolph, Thomas M. Randolph, John Rea of
Pennsylvania, Jacob Richards, Samuel Riker, Thomas Sammons,
Thomas Sanford, Ebenezer Seaver, James Sloan, John Smilie, John
Smith, Richard Stanford, John Stewart, Philip R. Thompson,
Abram Trigg, Isaac Van Horne, John Whitehill, Alexander Wilson,
Joseph Winston, and Thomas Wynns.
The resolution was of consequence agreed to.
Mr. J. RANDOLPH.--On this question I have nothing more to say than to
congratulate my friends on the vote just taken. We are strong in the
cause of truth, and gentlemen will find that truth will ultimately
prevail. When I compare the votes of this session with some of the votes
of the last, my objections to refer this subject are almost done away. In
whatever shape the subject may be again brought before the House, it will
be my duty, and that of my friends, to manifest the same firm spirit of
resistance, and to suffer no opportunity to pass of defeating a measure
so fraught with mischief.
[On a subsequent day, a bill was introduced for compromising the claims;
but it was not acted upon by the House during the remainder of the
session.][26]
WEDNESDAY, February 6.
_Post Roads._
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on a motion of
the seventh of December last, respecting “the establishment of a post
road from Knoxville, in the State of Tennessee, to the settlement on the
Tombigbee River, in the Mississippi Territory, and from thence to New
Orleans; also, for the establishment of a post road from Georgia to the
settlements on the Tombigbee, to intersect the former road at the most
convenient point between Knoxville and the Tombigbee;” to which Committee
of the whole House were also referred on the tenth of the said month of
December, and on the first instant, the report of a select committee, and
a Message from the President of the United States, on the same subject.
Mr. G. W. CAMPBELL observed, that having introduced this resolution,
he would very briefly state some of the reasons that induced him to do
so, and the grounds upon which he expected the committee to adopt it.
He stated the object of the measure to be two-fold: 1st. To obtain a
direct route for the transportation of the mail from Knoxville, and
also from Georgia, to the Tombigbee settlements, and thence to New
Orleans, in order to facilitate the communication with those places by
means of the mail. And 2d. To open a communication from East Tennessee
to the same places for commercial purposes. This measure, he said, was
important to the citizens of East Tennessee, in both those points of
view. The mail was conveyed at present, he observed, by a circuitous
route, from Knoxville to Nashville, two hundred miles, thence to Natchez,
at least five hundred miles, and thence to New Orleans, nearly three
hundred miles; making in the whole, from Knoxville to New Orleans, one
thousand miles. Whereas the distance from Knoxville to New Orleans by
the route proposed to be opened, would not much, if any, exceed five
hundred. A gentleman of undoubted veracity, who resided some years in
the country through which this road will pass, in the service of the
Government, estimates this route in the following manner: From Knoxville
to Tellico, thirty-three miles. This part of the route passes through
a settled country, and is at present a good road. From Tellico, to a
place called the Hickory Ground, in the Creek Nation, near the junction
of the Coosa River with the Tallapoosa, where they form the Alabama and
about twenty miles from the Tuckabatchee settlements, two hundred and
twenty miles. From thence to Fort St. Stephen’s on the Tombigbee River,
about one hundred miles; and thence to New Orleans, a direct course,
about one hundred and fifty miles, making in all five hundred and three
miles; and the largest calculations, as I had been informed, made by
the Postmaster-General, of this road from Knoxville to New Orleans, was
five hundred and fifty miles; making very little more than half the
present route. Add to this the distance from Washington to Knoxville,
according to the estimated post route, five hundred and forty-seven
miles, and the whole distance from Washington to New Orleans, passing by
Knoxville--and from thence the proposed route will be about one thousand
and fifty miles. This saving of between four and five hundred miles,
in transporting the mail from Knoxville to New Orleans, is certainly a
very important object to all those who may communicate with the latter
place, by means of this route. This road is still more necessary, for
the purpose of affording a communication from East Tennessee to the
settlement on the Tombigbee, or the eastern parts of the Mississippi
Territory. The only mode of communication at present with that country,
is by the post road already stated, by Nashville to Natchez, seven
hundred--and thence to the Tombigbee, about two hundred; making nine
hundred miles. Whereas the real distance along the proposed route, as has
been stated, will not exceed three hundred and fifty, or at most between
that and four hundred.
The effect of this circuitous route is, at present, to cut off the
communication almost entirely with that country.
But the second object for which we wish this road opened, viz: for
commercial purposes, is still more important to our citizens; and is
essential for the prosperity of our country.
The only mode by which the people of that country can, at this time,
convey their produce to market, is by boating it down the river Tennessee
into the Ohio, then along that to the Mississippi, and down that river
to New Orleans. Our boatmen employed in this trade are obliged to return
by land, as the same boats that carry produce down those rivers, cannot
ascend them, and there is but little navigation yet, in boats of any
kind, up those waters into the State of Tennessee; and no boats of any
considerable burden can pass up the river Tennessee, through the Muscle
Shoals, to the eastern part of the State. The only route by which those
boatmen can now return from New Orleans, is that already stated, on
which the mail is conveyed, being between four and five hundred miles
more than they would have to travel by the proposed route. The present
road also passes over the Cumberland mountain, a part of which is very
bad, and a wilderness at this part of the route, subject to the Indian
claim, of between seventy and one hundred miles, without inhabitants. It
also passes through another wilderness between Nashville and Natchez,
subject to the Indian claim, of about four hundred miles, a considerable
part of which is stated to be very bad road in winter, and that there
are many large water courses to be passed. The difficulties are so great
that few of our citizens are willing to embark in this trade, and our
farmers, having no convenient vent for their surplus produce, have little
or no inducement to industry beyond what may be necessary to produce the
ordinary supplies of subsistence. This in a very great degree retards
the progress of agriculture, and consequently the prosperity of our
country. It is therefore hoped that this House will feel disposed to
encourage the farming interests of our infant country by removing those
obstacles to its progress that the State authority is incompetent to
effect, and that prove so materially injurious to the interests of our
citizens. Here it may be proper to remark that this proposed road, so
far as it is desired to be established by this measure, passes through
a country belonging entirely to the United States, except about sixty
miles, and most of it subject to the claim of Indian tribes, being the
Mississippi Territory until it enters West Florida, or Orleans Territory.
This distance of about sixty miles alluded to, is from Tellico, on the
frontiers of the settlements in East Tennessee, to a point beyond the
south boundary of that State in the State of Georgia, and near the limits
of the Mississippi Territory, being also subject to the Indian claim.
A road has already been authorized to be opened in this direction; has
been viewed and designated by commissioners appointed for that purpose
from our State, at the expense of the State, and it is expected, by this
time, has been opened, being designed to afford us a communication with
the State of Georgia. This road will answer the proposed route--at least
as far as the limits of our State--being, as before stated, about sixty
or seventy miles from Tellico, and about one hundred from Knoxville.
There will therefore remain only about one hundred miles (or very little
more, if any) to be opened, to the point at which the road proposed from
Georgia will intersect this route. From this view of the subject, it
will appear we do not require the United States to be at any expense in
opening a road within the limits of the State of Tennessee, but only to
open it through a country belonging exclusively, except the Indian claim,
to the United States. With regard to the roads proposed to be opened from
Georgia to the Tombigbee settlements, so as to intersect the former road
at the most convenient point between Tellico and the said settlements,
what has been advanced to show the necessity of the former road will
apply with equal force to this. The only route by which the people of
Georgia can at present communicate with New Orleans, by means of the
mail, or travel to that place along any authorized road, is that already
stated, from Knoxville; thence by Natchez to New Orleans; and the people,
even on the frontiers of that State, have to travel nearly three hundred
miles to Knoxville to take this route, and are not then much, if any,
nearer New Orleans than when they set out. This in a great degree cuts
off this communication with that country. The road proposed to be opened
from Georgia, according to the best information, will intersect the road
from Knoxville, near the junction of Coosa and Tallapoosa Rivers, and
about two hundred miles, or somewhat more, from the latter place--of
which, as already stated, one hundred miles at least are opened, and only
about one hundred remain to be opened. The country through which the road
from Knoxville will pass, is represented, by those who are acquainted
with it, and who have resided many years among the Indian nations that
inhabit it, to be a fine, open country, generally dry without being
broken by any mountains, and very few streams of any considerable size
to be crossed, and no large rivers until you arrive at the Tombigbee. It
will pass along the high lands that lie between the waters falling into
the Tennessee River, and those that are discharged into the Coosa and
Alabama Rivers, and will require but little expense to be made a good
road. We hope, therefore, upon viewing all those circumstances, Congress
will agree to afford us the aid we require, and which is essentially
necessary to enable us to resort to the only market that will compensate
our farmers for their industry, encourage agriculture and commerce, and
promote the prosperity of our country.
When Mr. W. had concluded, the committee rose, and had leave to sit again.
TUESDAY, February 12.
_Counting Electoral Votes._