dwelleth not in temples made with hands, neither is worshiped with
men’s hands. Acts 17:24,25. “Yes,” said the priest, “as though he
needed any one; for he does not need us, but we need him.” Then he
asked me what I held concerning the matter, or the like. I replied that
Paul says, 1 Cor. 10:15–18: “I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I
say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of
the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion
of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body:
for we are all partakers of that one bread. Behold Israel after the
flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the
altar?” Thus I confess that there is but one communion of Christ, for
Paul explains it with a simile, saying: “Behold Israel after the flesh;
are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?”
“Now, I ask,” I said to them, “what was it that Israel eat, the altar
or the sacrifices?” They said: “The sacrifices;” but they said it
reluctantly. “That is right,” said I; “yet they were partakers of the
altar: so it is also with those who help to break or eat the bread;
they eat only bread, and are yet partakers of the body of Christ.”
I asked whereby he would maintain his mass. He brought forward the
passage, 1 Corinthians 11:24: “This do in remembrance of me.” By this
he maintained his mass. “Well, there is nothing said about a mass,”
said I. This was his defense of the mass. I asked him whether a man
might be apprehended for his faith. He affirmed it. I said: “Paul
certainly says: A man that is a heretic, after the first and second
admonition, reject; but he says nothing about apprehending.” Titus
3:10. “It is written,” said the priest, “that the magistracy does
not bear the sword in vain.” “Yes,” said I, “for the punishment of
the evil, and for the protection of the good; but what evil have I
done?” They said: “You have adhered to false doctrine, and attended
assemblies that are opposed to the Roman religion, which the king will
not tolerate, for he wants to protect his country; for it was seen
what those of Munster did; their object was to capture cities, and to
deprive the king of his country.” _Ans._ “The Munsterites did wrong;
have you heard such things of me? I have never in my life known the
Munsterites.” “No; but the Munsterites sprang from you.” “Well then,
it would have been time enough for you to apprehend me, when you had
heard such things of me; for no one can be burned justly, except he
first have done evil himself, and not on account of another.” But the
priest strenuously defended the authorities in this; that a man might
be apprehended for his faith. I said: “Christ certainly said to his
servants, when they wanted to root up the tares, that they should not
do it, but that they should let both grow together till the day of
harvest.” Matt. 13:30. The priest said: “But one can go and root up
the tares along the edge, without injuring the good.” _Ans._ “Christ
commands not to do it, but to let it grow.” But the priest constantly
charged it upon the magistracy, that the apprehending was their work,
just as though the ministers of the Romish church had been without
guilt in the matter. I then asked them whether my lord the Bailiff of
Delft, who was with us, was a brother and minister in their church.
This I asked him many times; but the priest would not give me a clear
answer with regard to it, but jumped from one thing to another.
However, I did not desist, until he made a definite answer, which he
did, but with great reluctance. When the Bailiff saw that we disputed
so warmly, he came and stood before us, and listened with close
attention; then I pressed the matter only the harder. Finally he said:
“Yes.” “Then you acknowledge him as a brother and minister in your
church?” “Yes,” said the priest. “Well then, now I desire you to show
me where the apostles had magistrates in their church, who protected
the faith with fire, water and the sword, as you do.” This he could
not prove to me, but came with the passage in Acts 23, where Paul was
imprisoned, and more than forty men had vowed neither to eat nor to
drink till they should have killed Paul. Paul’s sister’s son hearing
this, made it known to Paul, and Paul sent him to the chief captain,
that he should tell it to him. And when the chief captain heard it, he
said to two other captains, that they should make ready the beasts,
and set Paul thereon, and bring him safe unto Felix the Governor; with
two hundred soldiers, three-score and ten horsemen, and two hundred
spear-men.
Thereupon I replied: “Paul was then a prisoner, and that magistrate was
an unbeliever; but show me once where they had magistrates in their
church.” “Yes.” said the priest, “if unbelievers did this, how much
more believers.” I asked where the apostles had baptized bells. He
said: “We do not baptize bells.” “What do you teach them then?” said I.
He said that they blessed or exorcised them, if I have remembered his
words correctly; “For,” said he, “Satan is much in such things;” and he
related how he had reigned in the New Church, and therefore this was
done, as he said; and there was a great deal said.
I said to him that I had never read that the apostles had magistrates
in the church, who protected their faith with the sword; but that I
had read that Paul says: “We wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of
the darkness of this world.” Then the priest started up, and asked
where this was written. “In Eph. 6:12,” said I. Then he took up his
Testament, and looked for it, and having read it he said: “This Paul
says of the devil; he is the prince of this world.” I said: “It is
the magistracy of this world, who rule the world, for it speaks of
principalities and lords of this world.” And there fell many words,
the Bailiff listening with attention. The priest said that our faith
had not existed long, but that their faith had endured fifteen hundred
years, and though whole countries were apostatizing from it, said he,
whole countries were being converted in India, and that many great
signs and miracles occurred there, even as occurred in the time of
Christ, so that the Christians were increasing. Then I said: “Does
that occur there, and not here? the church is certainly also here
in these lands, and there are pastors in Delft, and in other cities
hereabout, as well as there.” He said, it was certainly true. “Yes,”
said I, “Pharaoh’s magicians also imitated what Moses did.” “Yes,” said
the priest, “that was so, but they did not do such things as occurred
there.” Then I said: “Well then, I will adduce to you still more: we
read that there was a sorceress, who caused Samuel to come forth from
the grave, and Samuel talked with her or with Saul, 1 Sam. 28. “That
is true,” said the Bailiff; “I have read that.” Then said I, “Christ
himself also says that they shall say: Lord, have we not in thy name
cast out devils? But he shall answer them: Depart from me; I know you
not.” Matthew 7:22,23. Then the Bailiff said: “Jan Hendrickss does not
believe it; do you, Jan Hendrickss?” “No; Sir Bailiff,” said I, there
is so much villiany perpetrated.” “Yes,” said the priest, “there has
much indeed been done that was not good;” and he related that there
had been popes who had not done what was good, but what was wrong.
This the priest himself acknowledged; but there was now,” said he,
“an old, able man Pope, of whom much good was said, and he confessed
that there were bad abuses among them. “Paul says,” said I, “that the
old leaven ought to be purged out, and that if any man that is called
a brother be a drunkard, or a railer, or a fornicator, with such a one
we ought to have nothing to do;” but of this, as it seemed, he had
little understanding. “Indeed,” said the Bailiff, “if there were a man
who would have to do with another man’s wife, I should not want to have
anything to do with him.”
The priest then I think asked me why I had left them? I said that I had
indeed heard the priests preach a great deal, very severely censuring
popery, but that they did not practice what they preach; that they
drank to such an excess as to fight, strike and rave as though they
had been madmen, and for this reason I left. This I confessed to him
because the Bailiff was present; when there were no lords present,
I did not wish to bring up their things. I said: “They always want
to instruct us in prison; they ought to set us at liberty, and then
instruct us;” but of this nothing was said. And having thus many words
together, I asked the Bailiff, saying: “Sir Bailiff, I must ask you
something: if I should renounce my faith: however I do not say that
I shall do that.” “Well,” said the Bailiff, “I do not say it either,
that you do.” “But if I did, would you assure me of my life, and
release me:” “This I will not say, but I still say as my lords said,
that we will do our best in that respect.” “Yes, Sir Bailiff,” said I,
“what would that signify; it has happened that persons have renounced
their faith, and were put to death notwithstanding, as has been seen
in Delft,” “Yes,” said the Bailiff, “some were also released.” This
I had to ask him once, to hear what he would say; for we had talked
about it together. Not that we intended to renounce our faith, but
to hear what they would say. For it has never been my mind, nor have
I ever had any inclination for it; but it afforded me a good reason,
when they tormented us to renounce, to give them this for an answer.
Why should we renounce our faith? our life is not assured us. We had
many words together, but these are the principal things that were said
which I have remembered, for my memory is not strong. If I were to
write everything, I should require much paper, for it lasted full four
hours. In consequence of its lasting so long, my fellow brethren were
very sorrowful, for they thought and believed that I had been confined
elsewhere away from them.
The Bailiff then rang the bell, and the beadles came. I then said to
the priest: “If my lord had not been present, I would not have made so
many words with you.” “That I believe,” said the priest. I took off my
cap and bade them good evening, and they me. And I said to the pastor
and begged him, that if I had spoken any word too hastily, he should
excuse me for it. “Yes,” said the Bailiff, “and so do you to him, do
you not?” “Yes,” said I: and thus we parted.
It further happened that they confined us all three in separate places,
apart from one another, and took away the Bible from us, one which
they themselves had let us have, and which the Bailiff had previously
consented that we might have; but we remained of very good cheer, the
Lord be praised.
On Sunday, the 16th of July, 1570, I was taken down again, and they
tied my arms, which they had never done before, for I had gone down
with the jailer, fettered together with another. This surprised me
much, whereupon the beadles told me, that the priests had required it
of the Bailiff. Thus they brought me before two priests, namely, Mr.
Maerten, and the pastor of the New Church, who had once before been to
see me. When I came to them, I bade them good day, and they returned
the salutation. Then they said: “We have visited you once, and now we
come again, to see whether you are not more willing to yield, than you
were the other time.” I said: “I say as I have already said: If it can
be proved to me clearly and expressly, that infants were baptized, I
will gladly suffer myself to be instructed:” With this answer they
were not well pleased, since they have no Scripture for it. But they
asserted that I must suffer myself to be instructed, and that infants
had of a long time been baptized in the Christian church; and that it
had always been an ordinance; but I held to the proof furnished by the
practice of the apostles. They said that we ought to walk in the old
paths. “Yes, in the right ones,” said I; “thus it is written.” Jer.
6:16. They had come to instruct me. “Yes,” said I, “I cannot understand
it so.” This they did not like to hear, that I could not understand it;
and they said: “You want to understand it before you accept it.” “It is
written,” said he, “in the prophet Isaiah, that we must first accept
it, before we believe it.” “Where is this written?” said I. “I do not
know,” said the priest. “Rom. 10:10,” said I, “we read: ‘With the heart
man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made
unto salvation.’ I must certainly believe your things with the heart,
if I am to accept them: but now I cannot understand it as you do.” This
they would not hear; but if I had soundly assented with the mouth to
what they said, whether I had believed it or not, it would have been
all right.
They begged me much, that I should suffer my self to be instructed,
there was not a day that they did not pray for us. They also frequently
said that I had strange views, and that I was damned; if I were not
damned, God would not be God, he said; and the Scriptures would not be
true; this he often said. To be damned, and to lie in prison, these
are not good things, said I; for I said as little to them as I could.
But the damning did not hurt me; I let them say on. I said: “If you
can prove to me, that infants were baptized, I would like to hear it.”
They said that whole households were baptized, and declared that there
must have been children there. Ans. That you do not know, for there are
households in which are no children; I also do not seek salvation from
the water.” When they heard this they were greatly astonished. “Yes,”
said I, “you say that all unbaptized children are damned.” “Yes,”
said the priest, “they are damned.” “Then the women who give birth
to such children are badly off.” “Yes,” said the priest. “Indeed,”
said I, “then the water must wash away sin?” “Yes,” said they. _Ans._
“I shall prove to you, that it does not.” I then told them, that in
Peter 3:21 it is written: “‘The like figure whereunto even baptism
doth also save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but
the answer of a good conscience.’ And the apostle baptized Simon the
sorcerer but the water did not remove his sins, for it is written that
he was in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity, though
he had been baptized by the apostles.” “You say of Peter,” said the
priest, “that he writes this; how do you know if it is true? Did Peter
tell you himself? And Simon the sorcerer was a worthless fellow for
if the apostles had known that his heart was in this condition, they
would rather have bitten their fingers, than pronounced the name of
God over him.” _Ans._ “This I admit; but the water did nevertheless
not wash away his sins.” And they asserted that I must suffer myself
to be instructed, and said that I acted contrary to the Scriptures,
for it is written, Matthew 18: If thy brother shall trespass against
thee, rebuke him; and if he will not hear thee, tell it to the college.
“See,” said they “You will not hear us now that we rebuke you; in this
you certainly act contrary to the Scriptures.” _Ans._ “What would you
teach me then? Would you let me go then, and shun me as a heathen
and a publican?” “No, no,” said the priest, “this is your favorite
theme, which you always bring up.” (for I had had many words with him
in regard to it the last time;) but to let me go was not in their
power, he said. _Ans._ “Christ certainly says, when they are reproved,
and will not hear, they are to be shunned, and not apprehended. And
Paul also says: A man that is a heretic, after the first and second
admonition, reject. Tit. 3:10. And now I will not hear you, hence you
ought to let me go.” But they did not listen to this that was the
magistracy’s business, they said. _Ans._ “You certainly have a faith;
show me once where the apostles had magistrates in their church.
Then the priest said that Peter had killed two persons. _Ans._ “You
cannot prove that to me, neither by word nor deed.” Then he read from
a German Testament, that Ananias and his wife sold their possessions;
and did not bring all and lay it at the apostles’ feet, but kept back a
part of it. Then Peter said: Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart
to lie to the Holy Ghost? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and gave up the ghost.
Three hours after his wife came, and Peter asked her too, whether they
had sold the land for so much. She said: Yea. Peter said to her: How
is it that you have agreed together to tempt the spirit of the Lord?
behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the
door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his
feet and yielded up the ghost. Acts 5. When he had read, I said: “Who
can say that Peter did it, for it reads that when they heard these
words they gave up the ghost.” We had many words which I have partly
forgotten; they begged me to suffer myself to be instructed. “Well,”
said I, “I can not understand it so.” To this they would not listen,
that I would first understand it, before I accepted it; and they said
that their faith had always existed for fifteen hundred years; they
would show to me from year to year, how their church had been built
up, and they named to me many of their teachers or bishops, Augustine
and others; how it first came from Spain into France, whence St.
Willeboort brought it into these countries; and many other things did
they tell me. And though whole countries apostatized from them, there
were large countries again that adopted their faith, as for instance
in India, where the Lord did great signs, so that there were persons
who in one month learned another language, and accepted the faith, and
even preached within one month; and many other things they told me. I
asked whether that country was large. They said: “As large as Spain,
France, Germany and this country taken together.” Thus their faith had
always existed, and could not perish, for Christ had said: “I will be
with you unto the end of the world;” but our faith had not existed so
long; for [said they] you can not prove to us, that your church has
always existed. “I know,” said the priest, “that you will name to me
five or six persons.” Then I said; It would have been much better, if
he had heard Micaiah, than the four hundred false prophets. (The king
of Judah, 1 Kings, 22.) They tried hard to draw me out, as to whether I
was baptized, but the Lord kept my lips, and I did not tell them. They
had heard it said, they told me. I asked whether they had heard me say
it. They said: “No.” I replied: “I do not want to tell you either.”
They said: “We do not wish to know it.”
And when they found that I would not listen to them, they told me time
and again that I was damned, and that I was a murderer of souls, that I
had murdered many souls, and they had heard it said that I had caused
many to apostatize from the Roman church. I said: “I have murdered no
one’s soul.” He said: “You say that we are murderers ourselves.” I
said: “You have not heard me say that.” They told me to consider the
matter, and if I desired it, they would come again. Thus we parted
amicably.
These are the principal points of our conversation, for it lasted about
two hours. I should not be able to write the whole of it, for I can
not remember it, and it would be impossible for me to give the exact
conversation, without leaving out or adding to it.
Written by me, JAN HENDRICKSS.
ANOTHER LETTER BY JAN HENDRICKSS, TO MAERTEN JANSS, HIS FELLOW-PRISONER.
The eternal God of all grace, who has called us with a heavenly
calling, from the power of Satan into his eternal, marvelous kingdom,
strengthen and confirm you, my brother Maerten Janss, with his holy
word, and give you the power of the Spirit, that you may be able
to resist all the wicked wiles of the Evil One, whether through
himself, or through his emissaries, so that you may be able to stand
in this grace; and grant you and me a valiant faith, firmly rooted
and grounded, that you may neither be moved nor cast down by the
great tempest of false doctrine. This, I Jan Hendrickss, your weak
fellow-brother in imprisonment, tribulation and affliction, wish
Maerten Janss, my dear brother, in his bonds and imprisonment, as a
friendly salutation in the Lord, for the refreshing of your mind. Amen.
Further, my dear brother, I inform you, that I am still of good cheer
in the Lord, and my heart and mind have still no other purpose than
to fear him, and to adhere to his holy word, according to my great
weakness, with the help of God. Without whose assistance I am utterly
powerless to perform the same. Thus I hope and am confident in my
heart, that it is also with you. I furthermore thank you much for the
comforting letters you have sent me to refresh and console me in my
tribulation, and that you still remember me in your prayers, which
I also do for you, that we may help each other fight in this great
conflict, which we now have with the great red dragon, which draws the
third part of the stars from heaven with his tail. Revelation 12:3,4.
When I read your letters, it was no sorrow for me to hear that you were
of such good cheer and courage in the Lord, but it rejoiced my spirit.
Hence, my dear brother, let us take good heed to, and well consider,
the teaching and admonition of Paul, where he says: “As ye have
therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him, rooted and
built up in him.” Col. 2:6,7. Mark, dear brother, it is needful that we
attend to these words and admonition of Paul. For since we have put on
Christ by baptism, and have become members of his body, let us walk in
him, rooted and built up in him, and firmly abide in him, even as he
says: “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of
itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide
in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches. He that abideth in me, and
I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit; for without me ye can do
nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is
withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they
are burned.” John 15:4–6. Mark, dear brother, how well it is with him
that is in Christ, and Christ in him: but he who has no consciousness
of Christ, is like a branch that is cut off and withered, which
receives no sap or strength, nor the nature of the stem of the vine.
Dear brother, let us now earnestly consider the matter, whether
this is not the case with men. Let us therefore abound in him with
thanksgiving, and by him offer the sacrifice of praise to God
continually, that is, the fruit of our lips, that we be not spoiled
through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after
the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Heb. 13:15; Col.
2:8. “For it is now an evil time, a time that searches and tries
Christians, whether they are firmly rooted and built in the faith. For
when a woman has conceived, and the time of her delivery is drawing
nigh, before she is delivered, great pain comes upon her, which is
the forerunner and sign of her impending delivery; but when she is
delivered, she soon forgets the great pain, because she has gotten a
child.
Behold, my dear brother, thus it is also with us now; the great
temptation and vexation, conflicts without, and fears within, which
happen to us daily, these are our pains which precede delivery, whereby
we may perceive, that the time of delivery is fast approaching; but as
soon as we are delivered, then we shall remember it no more; namely,
when we shall have put off this tabernacle, the mortal clothing, that
shall be the last of our pain; then we may say: O death, where is thy
sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and
the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us
the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Cor. 15:55–57. Then shall
the last enemy, death, be conquered. Then shall we no more weep, mourn,
or lament; all torment, pain and affliction shall then have passed,
like a vapor, that endures for a little time. Then we shall no more be
tormented or tempted, apprehended or hunted; but we shall rest from our
heavy labor, and help keep the eternal day of rest, with many thousand
saints under the altar, who are chosen out of every kindred and nation,
who have also sealed the word of God with their blood, and have passed
through the world through many great tribulations, and not loved their
lives above their Creator unto the death. Rev. 14:13; 7:14; 12:11.