In the debate that ensued, Mr. Sumner said:--

MR. PRESIDENT,--The Senator from Kentucky [Mr. GUTHRIE] gives his

judgment in favor of the proposed ship-canal, but he gives his argument

against it. He is in favor of delay, and the reason he assigns is, that

the country is already encumbered by a large national debt, which we

should not increase by any additional expenditure; and he asks, with

a triumphant air, whether it has ever before been proposed to reduce

a national debt by increasing it. But his question does not meet the

case. It is proposed, so far as I understand, to provide additional

resources. To that end additional expenditure will be incurred. Out of

the additional resources there will be increased means for the payment

of the national debt. This is the answer to the Senator; and as I

understand him to make no other special objection to proceeding with

the matter now, I feel that he is completely answered.

I confess, however, Sir, that what fell from the Senator from Iowa

[Mr. GRIMES] produced more impression on my mind. His objection to

the execution of this work by a corporation, and to allowing that

corporation to establish tolls which the people of his State and of

other States at the West should be obliged to pay, certainly deserves

attention.

MR. SHERMAN. And there is the water power.

MR. SUMNER. Which is to be given to this corporation. I say it deserves

attention. But I think the Senator is mistaken, when on that account he

interposes the dilatory motion asking the bill recommitted. I do not

know that at a subsequent stage of the debate it may not be important

to recommit it; but I believe that at this moment we had better proceed

with the bill, and have a vote of the Senate on the amendment reported

by the Committee. For one, I wish an opportunity, and the sooner the

better, to vote against that amendment. Senators about me say, so do

they. Let us, then, proceed with the bill; and I hope the Senate will

vote down the amendment which is to invite the consent and coöperation

of the State of New York. On that question the Senate should establish

a precedent.

The time has come for us to assert the powers of the National

Government, independent of the States, in certain cases. The argument

in this debate has gone very much on the military power of the

Government, little allusion being made to that other source of power

which seems to me so ample,--the power to regulate commerce among the

States. I prefer to found this power upon that text of the National

Constitution. I ask Congress to interpose its power to regulate

commerce among the States,--to interpose it on a great occasion, under

circumstances, I admit, of special responsibility, when I consider the

time and the occasion, but under circumstances which amply justify the

exercise of the power. Who, Sir, can doubt, that, under these special

words of the National Constitution, we have full power over this whole

question? Who can doubt, that, without asking consent of New York, we

may establish a canal about the Falls of Niagara? I am at a loss to

understand how any Senator can hesitate as to the power of Congress.

Assuming, then, that Congress has the power, the only remaining

question is as to the expediency of exercising it at this time; and

that again brings me to the argument of the Senator from Kentucky, that

at this time, when we are involved in a large national debt, we should

not undertake to increase it. But to this I have already replied.

I hope, Sir, there will be no delay,--that the Senate will proceed

with the bill at once. The question is great; it is important; it is

almost historical; it is nothing less than to determine whether the

northern shores of Ohio and Illinois shall be brought forward to the

ocean itself, so that the large towns there shall become ports of the

sea. By this ship-canal Chicago and Cleveland may be made harbors on

the Atlantic coast. Sir, that is an object well worthy of an honest

ambition, and I ask the Senate without delay to do what it can for the

great result.

After debate, the bill was postponed to the second Tuesday of

December. Though considered at the next session, there was no

final action upon it.

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