THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the Defense Counsel want to ask any questions?
Do any of the Prosecution Counsel wish to cross-examine? Then the
witness can retire.
[_The witness left the stand._]
DR. MARX: Then I should like to call the witness Wurzbacher, if he is
available. Is he not? I do not know which one of the witnesses is still
in the witness room. Is there anyone? Wurzbacher? Hiemer?
MARSHAL (Colonel Charles W. Mays): Frau Streicher is available.
THE PRESIDENT: Is not the witness Wurzbacher here?
MARSHAL: I will see, Sir. He was not here a while ago. He was not called
for.
THE PRESIDENT: What other witnesses have you got, Dr. Marx?
DR. MARX: The wife of the defendant could be called as a witness now.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, let her be called then.
MARSHAL: The witness Strobel is available now.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Marx wants to call Frau Streicher.
DR. MARX: Excuse me, Mr. President. If it is rather difficult to call
Frau Streicher, then the witness...
[_The witness Frau Streicher took the stand._]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you give me your full name?
FRAU ADELE STREICHER (Witness): Adele Streicher, born Tappe.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: “I swear by God—the
Almighty and Omniscient—that I will speak the pure truth—and will
withhold and add nothing.”
[_The witness repeated the oath in German._]
You may sit down.
DR. MARX: Your maiden name is Tappe and you were born in Magdeburg?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes.
DR. MARX: Were you a member of the NSDAP or of the Frauenschaft?
FRAU STREICHER: No.
DR. MARX: When did you become Herr Streicher’s secretary and for how
long were you in that job?
FRAU STREICHER: On 7 June 1940, I became Julius Streicher’s secretary
and I remained in that job until the end of the war.
DR. MARX: And during that period, you were continuously on his farm?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes, I was always with him.
DR. MARX: Were you also in charge of all the correspondence for Herr
Streicher?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes.
DR. MARX: What did that correspondence mainly consist of?
FRAU STREICHER: Mainly letters to his sons and to relatives.
DR. MARX: What were Streicher’s activities during that period of 5
years?
FRAU STREICHER: Julius Streicher did mainly physical work; that is,
agriculture and gardening, and from time to time he wrote articles for
_Der Stürmer_.
DR. MARX: During these 5 years did he leave the farm at all or was he
ever absent from the farm for any length of time?
FRAU STREICHER: During the first few years of his stay there Julius
Streicher did not leave the farm at all; later, once in a while, he
would pay a visit in the neighborhood. His longest absence did not
comprise an entire day and never a single night.
DR. MARX: Did you know that it was prohibited for prominent Party
members to visit Herr Streicher?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes, there was such a prohibition.
DR. MARX: How did you know that?
FRAU STREICHER: From conversations. Then, too, I myself remember, when
Dr. Goebbels visited the farm, that Julius Streicher said to him,
“Doctor, you dare to come here? Do you not know that it is prohibited by
the Party chiefs to visit me?”
DR. MARX: When did the visits of Dr. Ley and Dr. Goebbels occur?
FRAU STREICHER: Dr. Ley came to the farm on 7 May 1944. The visit of Dr.
Goebbels occurred on 4 June 1944.
DR. MARX: Would you please describe the character of these visits and
what was the subject of the conversations?
FRAU STREICHER: Both visits were of a rather unofficial character. Dr.
Ley wanted mainly to know how Julius Streicher was doing, personally. No
political questions were raised. Ley said only, “Streicher, the Führer
is waiting for you.”
DR. MARX: And what did Streicher say to that?
FRAU STREICHER: Julius Streicher answered that he had become accustomed
to his solitude, that he was happy as a farmer, and that Ley should tell
the Führer that he, Streicher, wanted nothing more. At the visit of Dr.
Goebbels the subject of the conversation dealt mainly with Julius
Streicher’s dismissal from his office as Gauleiter, and Dr. Goebbels was
of the opinion that Julius Streicher should return into the circle of
old Party members; but he gave him the same answer, “Tell the Führer I
wish for nothing.”
DR. MARX: Were you always present during these conversations?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes.
DR. MARX: Was not the Jewish question a subject of these conversations?
FRAU STREICHER: No, they never spoke about the Jewish question.
DR. MARX: Did they not speak about the happenings in the Eastern
territories, or in the concentration camps?
FRAU STREICHER: No, that never came up any more.
DR. MARX: Did not Streicher speak to you about the articles he intended
to write for _Der Stürmer_, and did he not also speak about what he
considered to be the solution of the Jewish problem?
FRAU STREICHER: From all conversations with Julius Streicher I could see
with certainty that he never thought of the solution of the Jewish
question in terms of violence, but hoped for the emigration of Jews from
Europe and their settlement in territories outside Europe.
DR. MARX: Was Herr Streicher in correspondence with leading
personalities of the Party or of the State?
FRAU STREICHER: No, neither personally nor by correspondence was there
any such connection.
DR. MARX: I will now mention several names, of whom I want you to tell
me whether they had any connection with him: Himmler, Heydrich, Bormann,
or other leading men of the Police or the SS or the Gestapo.
FRAU STREICHER: No, I know nothing of any of these men. With the
exception of one letter from Herr Himmler there was never any mail.
DR. MARX: What was the reason for that letter?
FRAU STREICHER: In that letter Herr Himmler complained about the fact
that the French prisoners of war who were employed on our Pleikershof
farm were treated too well.
DR. MARX: How was the treatment of the prisoners of war and the foreign
civilian workers on the farm?
FRAU STREICHER: On the Pleikershof eight French prisoners of war, one
Polish girl, and one Slovene girl were employed. They were all treated
very well and very humanely. Each service for which Julius Streicher
asked, each piece of work for which he asked personally, was especially
rewarded with tobacco, pastry, fruit, or even money. Such cordial
relations developed with some of the Frenchmen during the years that
they were there that they assured us, with tears in their eyes at their
departure, that they would visit Julius Streicher after the war with
their families.
DR. MARX: Did Streicher not finally receive credible information about
these mass executions in the East?
FRAU STREICHER: I believe he found out about it through Swiss newspapers
in 1944. We were never informed about it officially.
DR. MARX: But it is asserted that he already had knowledge before that.
FRAU STREICHER: No.
DR. MARX: You do not know anything about it?
FRAU STREICHER: I only know about the Swiss newspapers.
DR. MARX: Very well. You once brought up the subject, in a conversation,
that in Magdeburg, from the 9 to 10 November 1938, you witnessed the
demonstration against the Jews and that you were revolted by it. Is that
true?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes, I spoke about it and said that I was shocked at
this action. Julius Streicher got very excited during that conversation
and said, “Such nonsense occurred in Nuremberg also. That is not
anti-Semitism; that is just great stupidity.”
DR. MARX: Is it correct that Herr Streicher was hardly interested in the
financial affairs of the publishing firm and left these things to the
manager?
FRAU STREICHER: Julius Streicher never bothered about financial affairs
at all, neither in the house nor in the firm. Again and again the
gentlemen of the firm were disappointed when they wanted to report about
annual balances or the like and Julius Streicher would tell them, “Do
not worry me with your business matters. There are other things besides
that are more important than money.”
DR. MARX: How did he take care of the household expenses, then?
FRAU STREICHER: I received 1,000 marks every month from the firm. That
provided for the household, presents, and so on.
DR. MARX: Do you know that he is supposed to have acquired shares
through illegal pressure against a Jewish banker?
FRAU STREICHER: That is completely out of the question. I consider it
quite impossible that Julius Streicher acquired shares that way. I
believe that he does not even know what a share looks like.
DR. MARX: Did he not tell you anything about it?
FRAU STREICHER: I only heard that he never received shares.
DR. MARX: How did it come about that you and the defendant were married
as late as April 1945?
Did you understand the question?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes. Julius Streicher wanted to take part in the
fighting in Nuremberg. I wanted to accompany him, so he married me
before we left. We wanted to die together.
DR. MARX: Then you left the Pleikershof with him, and where did you go
from there?
FRAU STREICHER: First we wanted to go to Nuremberg, and that was refused
for fear of difficulties with the authorities. So we drove in the
direction of Munich. In Munich we were told to continue in the direction
of Passau. From Passau they sent us to Berchtesgaden; from Berchtesgaden
they sent us to Kitzbühel.
DR. MARX: How did it happen that the original intention to die together
was not followed up? What caused him to change his mind?
FRAU STREICHER: The cause for that was a conversation with three young
soldiers.
DR. MARX: And what was that? I will be through right away, Mr.
President.
THE PRESIDENT: I do not think you should go into that, Dr. Marx.
DR. MARX: Well, then. I will forego the question. Only one more
question: Is it correct that Streicher gave the managers of his
publishing firm a written power of attorney which meant that they could
dispose of the money as they saw fit?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes, Julius Streicher gave the power of attorney to
whoever happened to be the manager of the firm, and thereby gave him his
full confidence without any restrictions.
DR. MARX: Mr. President, I have no more questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the defendants’ counsel want to ask any
questions?
Does the Prosecution wish to ask any questions?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: No.
THE PRESIDENT: Then the witness can retire, and the Court will adjourn
until 0930 tomorrow morning.
[_The Tribunal adjourned until 30 April 1946 at 0930 hours._]
ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTEENTH DAY
Tuesday, 30 April 1946
_Morning Session_
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, were you going to deal with these questions?
MR. DODD: Yes, Mr. President, I am prepared to do so. Shall I proceed to
take up those documents about which we have some difficulty?
THE PRESIDENT: If you will, yes.
MR. DODD: Altogether, there are some 118 documents submitted on behalf
of the Defendant Von Schirach. As a result of our conversations we have
agreed on all but—I believe the number is twelve.
The first group, Numbers 30, 31, 45, 68, 73, 101, 109, 124, and 133, are
all excerpts from a book entitled, _Look, the Heart of Europe_, written
by a man named Stanley McClatchie. They are excerpts referring to the
Hitler Youth organization, and we do object to them on the ground that
they are all irrelevant and immaterial here. They describe Hitler Youth
meetings at homes and Hitler health programs and Hitler athletic
competitions and Hitler Youth Land Service and that sort of thing. There
are general descriptions by Mr. McClatchie of some activities of the
Hitler Youth organization. They are all, I say, from that same
book—none of them written by the defendant himself. They were published
in 1937.
Then, Document Number 118 (a) is a letter. It is unsigned, except that
it is typewritten. It is by Colin Ross and his wife and it appears to be
a suicide note setting forth the reasons why Ross and his wife intended
to commit suicide. We have been unable to determine its probative value
and do not see any probative value in it, insofar as the issues
concerning this defendant are concerned. He apparently was acquainted
with the Defendant Von Schirach and that is the claim, I assume, of
counsel for Von Schirach, that it sheds some light of some kind on Von
Schirach’s attitude. But it is not clear to us.
The third document is Number 121. This is a quotation from the United
States Army newspaper, _The Stars and Stripes_, issue of the 21st of
February 1946. It is about the training of young people in Yugoslavia at
the present time. With respect to this we also say that we believe it to
be immaterial here and not relevant and not bearing on the issues
concerning this defendant as charged in the Indictment.
Those three—the first group and the two, 118 and 121, are the only
documents concerning which we have any controversy.
THE PRESIDENT: Eleven.
MR. DODD: I am sorry. I said twelve.
DR. FRITZ SAUTER (Counsel for Defendant Von Schirach): Mr. President,
the first group of documents to which the Prosecution has objected are
from a book by an American, McClatchie.
This American, as he himself writes in the book, is of Scottish descent,
and in the year 1936—that was the year of the Olympic Games—visited
Germany; he was able to see for himself the conditions in Germany and
the development of the German people during the first years of the
Hitler regime, and here he describes the impressions he received.
Normally, I would not attach any special value to this book, if it were
not for the fact that the preface shows that the book was written on
suggestion of the Defendant Baldur von Schirach.
The defendant, as he will explain in the course of his own examination,
began very early to build up a pleasant and friendly relationship
especially with the United States, and this book by McClatchie is one of
the many means which the Defendant Von Schirach used for that purpose.
The author himself admits in the preface of his book that he obtained a
large part of the material for the book from the Defendant Von Schirach.
This fact lends to the book an importance, with respect to its relevancy
for the purposes of this Trial in the defense of Von Schirach, entirely
different from what it would have been had it been written quite
independently of Von Schirach. That is, we have to evaluate the
statements and descriptions in this book more or less as though they
were statements of the Defendant Von Schirach himself. This is the main
reason why I have submitted the book with the request that I be
permitted to quote in evidence some short passages, particularly those
referring to the Youth Leadership. The rest of the book, which is also
interesting but has no direct connection with the Youth Leadership of
the Defendant Von Schirach, have not mentioned; I refer only to a few
short extracts which shed light exclusively on the activity and the aims
of the Defendant Von Schirach; and, besides, they are intended to show
you, Gentlemen, what impression even a foreigner gained of this
activity, although naturally he had come to Germany with a certain
prejudice which had to be overcome by his personal impressions.
That, Mr. President, is what I wanted to say to the first group, which
the prosecutor listed individually from Numbers 30 to 133.
The second group consists of Number 118(a) of the Document Book
Schirach, and that is a letter of farewell which the explorer, Dr. Colin
Ross, left behind.
If the prosecutor objects that the letter bears no signature, the fact,
in my opinion, is not particularly important. What we have submitted is
the original copy of that last letter, and this original copy was found
among the papers of Dr. Colin Ross.
Now, the Prosecution ask: What has that farewell letter by Dr. Colin
Ross to do with the charges against Schirach? I ask the Tribunal to
recall that the name of Dr. Colin Ross has been mentioned here
repeatedly. He is the explorer—I believe an American by birth but I am
not certain at the moment. He is the man who for many years was not only
a close friend of Schirach’s but one whom the Defendant Von Schirach
used again and again in order to prevent the outbreak of a war with the
United States, and later, to terminate the war and to bring about peace
with the United States. When the evidence is presented, these points
will be clarified in detail, I believe. I now submit the last letter of
Dr. Colin Ross...
THE PRESIDENT: When was it dated?
DR. SAUTER: One moment please. The date is 30 April 1945. I consider the
letter—it is only one page long—important for the reason that in it a
man, at a moment before he committed suicide with his wife because he
was desperate about the future of Germany, at this moment—in the face
of death, he again confirmed the fact that he, together with the
Defendant Von Schirach, continuously endeavored to maintain peace
particularly with the United States. I believe, Gentlemen, that such a
man...
THE PRESIDENT: Where was he at the time when, as I understand you to
say, he committed suicide?
DR. SAUTER: The Defendant Von Schirach...
THE PRESIDENT: No, no, the man who wrote the letter.
DR. SAUTER: One moment, please. The Defendant Von Schirach had a small
house in Upper Bavaria in Urfeld on the Walchensee, and in that house
Colin Ross lived at the time with his wife, and it was here in
Schirach’s house that he committed suicide.
The letter is only one page, and it would not cause any considerable
delay in the proceedings if it were read.
Then, Gentlemen, the third group to which the Prosecution objects again
consists of one number only—a comparatively short article from _The
Stars and Stripes_, Number 121. That edition of which I shall submit the
original in evidence is of 21 February 1946, that is, of this year. It
explains in detail how the education of youth in Yugoslavia has now been
reorganized by Marshal Tito, and the Defendant Von Schirach attaches
particular value to this document because it proves that in Yugoslavia a
definitely military education of youth has been decided upon this very
year. The Defendant Von Schirach therefore desires to make a comparison
between the kind of education which he promoted and the Yugoslav
education of youth which has been adopted only this year, and which goes
very much further than the program of the Defendant Von Schirach did at
any time.
That is all.
MR. DODD: Mr. President, may I make just one or two short observations?
I realize that ordinarily the Tribunal does not want to hear from
counsel twice, but there are two matters I feel I should clear up.
First of all, this book, _Look, the Heart of Europe_, which may have
been written by this man McClatchie, who, counsel says, is an American
of Scotch ancestry—I think it is important that the Tribunal know that
it was published in Germany. I am sure that counsel did not mean to
imply that it was an American publication because, other than having
been written by this man, it was published over here after he attended
the Olympic Games in 1936.
THE PRESIDENT: And in the German language, I suppose?
MR. DODD: Yes, and the German title was _Sieh: Das Herz Europas_. Then
with respect to the Colin Ross note. I think it is important to observe
that no one knows whether Ross committed suicide or not—at least
insofar as the Allied countries are concerned. His body has never been
found and only this note which counsel says was found among his effects.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, may I make another remark concerning the
first group? This book by McClatchie was published by a German
publisher. The efforts of the Defendant Von Schirach made the
publication possible. That again speaks for the fact that Von Schirach
in furthering the publication had a certain purpose in view. That
purpose was to bring about enlightenment between America and Germany and
to smooth over the difficulties which he was afraid could one day lead
to war. The book by McClatchie appeared not only in German, but also in
the English language, and it was sold in large numbers in England and in
the United States. Of course, it also appeared in German and the German
language edition was sold in Germany.
That, I believe, is all I wish to say at this point.
THE PRESIDENT: Would you tell the Tribunal what these other documents
are that Mr. Dodd has not objected to? Because we understand that there
are 160 documents which he has not objected to. What are they all about,
and how long are they?
DR. SAUTER: They are short. I have submitted only one Document Book.
That is, I have limited myself to the absolute necessities, Gentlemen.
THE PRESIDENT: Of how many pages?
DR. SAUTER: Altogether, 134 pages. Of course, some cover only one-half
or one-third of a page, since the majority are relatively short
quotations. It was necessary for me to submit these excerpts, because I
can produce evidence of the activities of the Defendant Von Schirach as
Reich Youth Leader only by showing the Tribunal just what the Defendant
Von Schirach told the youth of the German nation, what his teachings
were, what his directives to his subordinate leaders were. And in order
to do so, I must submit, as I believe the Prosecution realizes, a short
report covering the entire period during which Von Schirach was Reich
Youth Leader, so as to show that the opinions and theories of the
Defendant Von Schirach during the last year of his activity as Reich
Youth Leader were exactly the same as those during his first year. He is
one of the few men within the Party who did not, in the course of the
years, allow themselves to become violent, he did not go to extremes as
did most of the others; and that is what I want to show by these
comparatively short excerpts.