Commander HUMES. The discrepancy?
Senator COOPER. The difference in the courses.
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
As this missile penetrated the scalp, it then came upon a very firm
substance, the hard skull, and I believe that this track depicted by
the dotted lines on Exhibit 388 was a portion of that missile which was
dislodged as it made its defect in the skull. And that--that another
portion, and, as I say, presumably, by the size of the defect, a more
major portion made its exit through the right lateral side of the skull.
Mr. McCLOY. Is this piece of pyramidal bone that was brought in to you
subsequently as I understand it----
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY. Was that part of the outer table or the inner table?
Commander HUMES. It was both tables, sir.
Mr. McCLOY. Both tables?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; had it only been one it might have been
difficult to ascertain whether it was.
Mr. McCLOY. Shelving or not?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; in or out, but it encompassed both tables,
sir.
Mr. DULLES. Is the angle of declination that you--one sees there from
in and out approximately the angle you think at which the bullet was
traveling at the time of impact and exit?
Commander HUMES. That is our impression, sir.
Mr. DULLES. So then the shot would have been fired from some point
above the head of the person hit?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Humes, would you elaborate a bit on the differences in
the paths, specifically why the bullet went in one direction in part
and in part in the second direction, terminating with the fragment
right over the right eye?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
I will make a drawing of the posterior portion of the skull showing
again this beveling which we observed at the inner table of the skull.
Our impression is that as this projectile impinged upon the skull in
this fashion, a small portion of it was dislodged due to the energy
expended in that collision, if you will, and that it went off at an
angle, and left the track which is labeled 388, which is labeled on
Exhibit 388 from "A", point "A" to the point where the fragment was
found behind the eye.
Why a fragment takes any particular direction like that is something
which is difficult of scientific explanation. Those of us who have seen
missiles strike bones, be it the skull or a bone in the extremity,
have long since learned that portions of these missiles may go off in
various directions and the precise physical laws governing them are not
clearly understood.
Mr. SPECTER. Would the angle be accentuated in any way if you were
to assume the President was in a moving automobile going in a slight
downhill direction?
Commander HUMES. There are many variables under these circumstances.
The most--the crucial point, I believe, to be the relative position of
the President's head in relation to the flight of the missile.
Now, this would be influenced by how far his head was bent, by the
situation with regard to the level of the seat in the vehicle, off of
the horizontal, and so forth.
Mr. SPECTER. How about a decline in the path of the road itself?
Commander HUMES. I think that that would have a tendency to accentuate
this angle, yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, I would like to move for the admission
in evidence now of Exhibit 391, which is the exhibit on the brain
report.
The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.
(The document heretofore marked for identification as Commission
Exhibit No. 391 was received in evidence.)
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Humes, would you now move over to the wound which
appears on the lower part of the neck and upper part of the back?
Mr. DULLES. Could I ask one more question before we get to that, I am
sorry.
Mr. SPECTER. Certainly.
Mr. DULLES. Could one say as to what portion of the bullet was found in
all these fragments, I mean arrive at an estimate, was it a tenth of
the bullet, was it, how much was it, assuming the type of bullet that
we believe was used in this particular rifle.
Commander HUMES. Sir, I have not had the opportunity to personally
examine the type of bullet which is believed to have been represented
by this injury.
However, I would estimate--if I understand you correctly the total
amount that was present in the President's skull and brain?
Mr. DULLES. Yes.
Commander HUMES. Including the fragment?
Mr. DULLES. Including all the fragments.
Commander HUMES. Including all these minute particles. I would say
there was something less than one-tenth of the total volume of the
missile.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Humes, do you make that calculation on the assumption
that the bullets used here were 6.5 mm. Mannlicher-Carcano rifle bullet
weighing 158.6 grams?
Commander HUMES. Yes, I do; sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Had I brought that particular fact to your attention prior
to the time you started testifying here today?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir. One point I intended to make clear these
fragments which I recovered from this position were turned over to the
Secret Service.
I presume that they have made physical measurements including the
weight of them, and could give a much more intelligent estimate of
the proportion than I. I would say, however, that we did not deliver
these minute fragments because they were so small as to be essentially
unrecoverable.
So, obviously they were of a very small portion of the major missile.
Mr. DULLES. These minute fragments were part of the bullet, emanations
from the bullet?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. They were not from the head?
Commander HUMES. No, sir, they were small, dust, of the size of dust
particles, however.
Mr. DULLES. Is the posture of the head of that figure there, the
inclination of it, roughly the inclination that you think the
President's head had at the time from the other photographs?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir. From the photographs and based on the
physical examination of this wound, yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. That is all I have.
Mr. McCLOY. Perhaps this was something that Colonel Finck could testify
to exactly, but, he would be quite competent. Is there anything to
indicate that this was, might have been a larger than a 6.5 or smaller
than a 6.5?
Commander HUMES. The size of the defect in the scalp, caused by a
projectile could vary from missile to missile because of elastic recoil
and so forth of the tissues.
However, the size of the defect in the underlying bone is certainly not
likely to get smaller than that of the missile which perforated it, and
in this case, the smallest diameter of this was approximately 6 to 7
mm., so I would feel that that would be the absolute upper limit of the
size of this missile, sir.
Mr. McCLOY. Seven would be the absolute upper limit?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; and, of course, just a little tilt could
make it a little larger, you see.
Mr. DULLES. I have one other question, if I may.
Is the incidence of clean entry as indicated there, and then great
fragmentation on exit, is that a normal consequence of this type of
wound?
Commander HUMES. Sir, we feel that there are two potential explanations
for this.
One, having traversed the skull in entrance in the occiput as depicted
on 388, the missile begins to tumble, and in that fashion it presents
a greater proportion of its surface to the brain substance and to the
skull as it makes its egress.
The other and somewhat more difficult to measure and perhaps Colonel
Finck will be able to testify in greater detail on this, is that a high
velocity missile has tremendous kinetic energy, and this energy is
expanded against the structures which it strikes, and so that much of
this defect could be of the nature of blast, as this kinetic energy is
dissipated by traversing the skull.
Is that the sense of the question, sir?
Mr. DULLES. Yes.
Senator COOPER. I will ask a question, and perhaps this isn't in your
field.
But assuming that the shot which struck President Kennedy at point A
was fired by a gun from the window of the Texas School Book Depository,
and which has been testified to, and assuming that you could locate the
position of the President at the time he was struck by a bullet, you
could then, could you not, establish the degree of the missile?
Commander HUMES. The degree of angle?
Senator COOPER. The angle, yes, the degree of angle of the missile from
the building.
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; there is one difficulty, and that is
the defect of exit was so broad that one has to rely more on the
inclination of the entrance than they do connecting in this instance
entrance and exit because so much of the skull was carried away in this
fashion.
Senator COOPER. That was my second question.
My first question was would it be possible physically to establish the
degree of angle of the trajectory of the bullet?
Commander HUMES. Within limited accuracy, sir.
Senator COOPER. Within limited accuracy.
That being true then my second question was whether the point of entry
of the bullet, point A, and the, what you call the exit----
Commander HUMES. Exit.
Senator COOPER. Did you establish them so exactly that they could be
related to the degree of angle of the trajectory of the bullet?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; to our satisfaction we did ascertain that
fact.
Mr. DULLES. Just one other question.
Am I correct in assuming from what you have said that this wound is
entirely inconsistent with a wound that might have been administered if
the shot were fired from in front or the side of the President: it had
to be fired from behind the President?
Commander HUMES. Scientifically, sir, it is impossible for it to have
been fired from other than behind. Or to have exited from other than
behind.
Mr. McCLOY. This is so obvious that I rather hesitate to ask it. There
is no question in your mind that it was a lethal bullet?
Commander HUMES. The President, sir, could not possibly have survived
the effect of that injury no matter what would have been done for him.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Specter.
Mr. SPECTER. What conclusions did you reach then as to the trajectory
or point of origin of the bullet, Dr. Humes, based on 388?
Commander HUMES. We reached the conclusion that this missile was fired
toward the President from a point above and behind him, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, on one detail on your report, Dr. Humes, on page
4, on the third line down, you note that there is a lacerated wound
measuring 15 by 6 mm. which on the smaller size is, of course, less
than 6.5 mm.?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What would be the explanation for that variation?
Commander HUMES. This is in the scalp, sir, and I believe that this
is explainable on the elastic recoil of the tissues of the skin,
sir. It is not infrequent in missile wounds of this type that the
measured wound is slightly smaller than the caliber of the missile that
traversed it.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you proceed, now then to the other major wound of
entry which you have already noted and described?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Its point of origin, where it hit the President.
Commander HUMES. I--our previously submitted report, which is
Commission No. 387, identified a wound in the low posterior neck of the
President.
The size of this wound was 4 by 7 mm., with the long axis being in
accordance with the long axis of the body, 44 mm. wide, in other words,
7 mm. long.
We attempted to locate such wounds in soft tissue by making reference
to bony structures which do not move and are, therefore, good reference
points for this type of investigation.
We then ascertained, we chose the two bony points of reference--we
chose to locate this wound, where the mastoid process, which is just
behind the ear, the top of the mastoid process, and the acromion which
is the tip of the shoulder joint. We ascertained physical measurement
at the time of autopsy that this wound was 14 cm. from the tip of the
mastoid process and 14 cm. from the acromion was its central point--
Mr. SPECTER. That is the right acromion?
Commander HUMES. The tip of the right acromion, yes, sir, and that is
why we have depicted it in figure 385 in this location.
This wound appeared physically quite similar to the wound which we
have described before in 388 "A," with the exception that its long
axis was shorter than the long axis of the wound described above.
When the tissues beneath this wound were inspected, there was a
defect corresponding with the skin defect in the fascia overlying the
musculature of the low neck and upper back.
I mentioned previously that X-rays were made of the entire body of
the late President. Of course, and here I must say that as I describe
something to you, I might have done it before or after in the
description but for the sake of understanding, we examined carefully
the bony structures in this vicinity as well as the X-rays, to see
if there was any evidence of fracture or of deposition of metallic
fragments in the depths of this wound, and we saw no such evidence,
that is no fracture of the bones of the shoulder girdle, or of the
vertical column, and no metallic fragments were detectable by X-ray
examination.
Attempts to probe in the vicinity of this wound were unsuccessful
without fear of making a false passage.
Mr. SPECTER. What do you mean by that, Doctor?
Commander HUMES. Well, the defect in the fascia was quite similar,
which is the first firm tissue over the muscle beneath the skin, was
quite similar to this. We were unable, however, to take probes and have
them satisfactorily fall through any definite path at this point.
Now, to explain the situation in the President's neck, I think it will
be necessary for me to refer back to Exhibit 385, I believe the number
is correct.
Mr. SPECTER. Yes; please do, that is 385.
Commander HUMES. Now, as the President's body was viewed from
anteriorly in the autopsy room, and saying nothing for the moment about
the missile, there was a recent surgical defect in the low anterior
neck, which measured some 7 or 8 cm. in length or let's say a recent
wound was present in this area.
This wound was through the skin, through the subcutaneous tissues and
into the larynx. Or rather into the trachea of the President.