Mr. FORD. When the President was assassinated.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you would have based that response on the things you
mentioned already.
Is there anything else you would have based that reason on?
Mr. FORD. Well, it is difficult to say. My general opinion of the
man was that he was strange and he did a lot of things I couldn't
understand but I had no reason to think he would attack a person with
the intent to kill him.
As far as I knew there was nothing he had ever done before that that
would indicate he would ever kill anybody. I don't know how you tell
ahead of time whether a man can commit murder. I was never worried
about him going out and killing somebody: say I would have never said
prior to the assassination that you have got to watch out for this guy,
he is dangerous. He didn't impress me that way.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had information prior to the assassination that he
had beaten his wife, did you not?
Mr. FORD. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And did you take that information, would you take that,
into consideration in the judgment that you just expressed?
Mr. FORD. No; I don't think so. I think man and wife can fight over
a lot of things and it isn't necessary that either one of them would
intend to kill somebody. He might become violent toward his wife, who
is a much smaller and weaker person but he never impressed me as the
type of person who would violently attack another man, for example.
Mr. FORD. When did you first hear that Lee Oswald was held by the
authorities?
Mr. FORD. It was the afternoon of the assassination, I heard on the
radio.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was your reaction then?
Mr. FORD. Just what I said, my first reaction, "This idiot has gone
down to get himself some attention and confuse the whole issue."
At that time I didn't know he was working in the School Book Depository
Building.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you do subsequent to hearing this radio
broadcast?
Mr. FORD. Let's see; I heard it in a hardware store and I went and
picked up my wife who was shopping at the grocery store, picked her up,
and told her what I had heard and we went home. I didn't do anything
specifically that I can think of. I did not mention it to anybody.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you and your wife on the way home from this shopping
trip discuss the apprehension of Lee Oswald and his implication in the
affair?
Mr. FORD. Well, I told her the police had picked him up, and that he
was apparently being held both for the assassination of the President
and for shooting a police officer, and my wife was a little bit worried
then, I think, about the people's reaction to the children, and she
said, well, "Don't mention it in front of the children."
By the time we got home, I believe Linda, my stepdaughter, had already
talked on the phone to Mrs. Anna Ray, who had also heard the radio
broadcast and called up to ask if my wife had heard it, and, of course,
by then it was too late, they knew who Lee Oswald was, they read who he
was, that Marina stayed at our house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Then if I understand it you and your wife voluntarily
went down to police headquarters?
Mr. FORD. Well, the next Sunday.
Mr. LIEBELER. Two days later?
Mr. FORD. Yes; the assassination was on a Friday afternoon. On Sunday
morning, Mr. Frank Ray called me and said he heard on the radio that
the FBI had requested anybody who knew Lee Oswald to please contact
them, and he asked me what I was going to do, I said, "Well, I don't
know, I will call an attorney and see what he suggests." I called Max
Clark at Fort Worth and he was out, so I called my sister out in Los
Angeles. She is an attorney and married to one, and I said, "Who are
you supposed to contact if you know information about Lee Oswald," and
she said she assumed it would be the FBI, so I then called the FBI
office and made an appointment to talk to an agent and we made the
appointment to talk in the FBI office in downtown Dallas. While we were
driving downtown I stopped to get some gas and the attendant told me
that somebody had just shot Lee Oswald and it was right about that time
that I went down to talk with the FBI.
Mr. LIEBELER. In this interval between your first reaction and your
going to the interview with the FBI, did you and your wife discuss any
further the Oswald implications?
Mr. FORD. I am sure we discussed it, but I can't remember exactly what
we said to each other about it.
I think she was worried at first that her children would suffer some
prejudice from other people.
Mr. LIEBELER. Marina's children?
Mr. FORD. No; our children. And, of course, also that Marina was and
her two children, my wife felt, would be sort of considered persona
non grata in this country from then on, but I didn't consider this
would happen as long as she was not implicated in a plot to kill the
President.
I know we discussed it but I just can't remember specifically what we
said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Ford, did you at any time learn of any desire on
Oswald's part to return to Russia?
Mr. FORD. Yes; after the assassination I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did you learn that?
Mr. FORD. Well, partly from discussing it, I heard it through friends
and then later when Marina talked to my wife, I don't remember if this
was during the time she visited us during January or after she moved
in, but she did tell the story to my wife of his desire, as expressing
a desire, to return to Russia, and I am a little confused as to what
the story was.
As nearly as I could make out he had told her he wanted to go back to
Russia first and then later said, no, he was going--couldn't get a visa
to Russia and he was going to try to get a visa and go through Cuba and
then go to Russia, and then I think he changed his mind again and said
he was going to ask for a visa to Cuba, using it as an excuse with the
idea of going to Russia and then stay in Cuba, and somewhere in there
I got the idea that Marina was not willing to go. He wanted Marina
to return to Russia and I had the impression this was just a--but I
couldn't even give you the details of her various statements which led
me to the conclusions--as nearly as I could figure out, this was the
story she had told my wife and she told me.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you learn at any time through your wife or otherwise
that Marina Oswald at one point had contemplated committing suicide?
Mr. FORD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us about that?
Mr. FORD. Well, the first time I heard it was yesterday.
Mr. LIEBELER. During our conversations?
Mr. FORD. During our conversations, yesterday.
Mr. LIEBELER. And your wife explained to us in our conversations
yesterday that she, Marina Oswald, had told her at onetime contemplated
committing suicide?
Mr. FORD. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was the extent of our conversations yesterday?
Mr. FORD. Yes, sir. That is right. I think my wife said Marina felt so
desolate and downhearted that she felt that was the only way out at the
time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you finished?
Mr. FORD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any other information or knowledge that
you think the Commission should know about in connection with these
matters that we haven't already asked you about?
Mr. FORD. There is nothing I can think of offhand.
Mr. LIEBELER. In our conversations yesterday you and your wife and I
discussed your testimony today. Have we covered those matters here in
the testimony and have there been any inconsistencies between what we
discussed yesterday and what we have discussed today on the record that
you can think of?
Mr. FORD. No; I can't think of any inconsistencies. I assume we have
covered everything we discussed yesterday. I can't remember everything
we discussed yesterday, so I am just assuming we covered it.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have no more questions then.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you anything further, Congressman Ford?
Representative FORD. Mr. Ford, you drove Marina Oswald from your home
to the Ray home?
Mr. FORD. Yes.
Representative FORD. In October or November of 1962?
Mr. FORD. It was in November.
Representative FORD. It was November of 1962. How long a drive is that?
Mr. FORD. It is about 15 minutes. I guess it couldn't be over 7 or 8
miles, 6, 7, 8 miles, something like that.
Representative FORD. Did you have any conversation with her at that
time?
Mr. FORD. No. She couldn't speak but about a half dozen words of
English.
Representative FORD. So there was no real conversation between the two
of you?
Mr. FORD. No.
Representative FORD. That is all.
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. Chief Justice, may I confer briefly with counsel?
The CHAIRMAN. Where were you born?
Mr. FORD. Los Angeles.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you go to the public schools there?
Mr. FORD. I attended both parochial and public schools in Los Angeles
and Glendale.
The CHAIRMAN. Then you went to the University of California at Los
Angeles?
Mr. FORD. Right.
The CHAIRMAN. Where did you go after that. You were in the service, did
you say?
Mr. FORD. I was in the service. After I got out of the service I went
back to UCLA and finished my education and then went to work in the oil
industry first in Bakersfield and in Los Angeles, Ventura, and then
went to work for DeGollyer and McNaughton overseas.
The CHAIRMAN. I see.
Representative FORD. How old are you, Mr. Ford?
Mr. FORD. Forty-one.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Ford, were you at any time present in Mr. McKenzie's
office, William McKenzie, when there was a discussion with Marina
Oswald concerning guns and the gun that was used to or presumably used
to attack Walker and the gun that was subsequently presumably used to
attack the President?
Mr. FORD. I don't remember any discussion. I have been in his office
several times when he was discussing things with Marina, but I don't
remember him ever asking about this gun or discussing this gun.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you hear McKenzie at anytime advise Marina if she
were asked about these guns she should say there was only one gun?
Mr. FORD. I think I did hear him say that once or something to that
effect but I don't remember specifically the words.