Mr. McWATTERS. You mean why did I have it punched at 1 o'clock?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. McWATTERS. Because I punch it p.m. In other words, I have a punch,
I am going to Lakewood, I mean I am going Marsalis and I am going back
Lakewood, so I just take me two books of transfers. Instead of punching
one of them a.m. and one p.m. I just punched them p.m.
Mr. BALL. Do you punch within 15 minutes of the time you reach the
transfer points?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is the way that the transfers are supposed to be
cut.
Mr. BALL. Well, if you reach Lamar, if you were to reach Lamar at
12:40, what time, according to the rules should you punch it?
Mr. McWATTERS. I should have punched it at 12:45.
Mr. BALL. At 12:45?
Mr. McWATTERS. But I would have to punch one book a.m. and another one
p.m., so I just punched both of them p.m.
Mr. BALL. In other words, what you do is punch on the hour rather than
the 45 and 15 minutes usually?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. In other words, your usual practice is not to punch on the
15-minute interval, is that right, but to punch on the hour?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, just like I say within the closest of the hour
like that, in other words.
Mr. BALL. Suppose today you were wanting to punch some transfers at the
end of the line and you knew you were going to get to Lamar at 12:40.
Would you punch--what would you punch it?
Mr. McWATTERS. I work that run all the time, I punch at 1 o'clock every
day. As I say I worked it 2 years and as I say in order to keep from
punching one of them a.m. and one p.m., for the difference in the hour
there, I just punch them p.m.
Mr. BALL. I don't quite understand that. Doesn't your p.m. start at
after 12 o'clock?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, the way the transfers are there, did you notice
how they was, they run them until--see how 12:45 there, in other
words, that is what they use that up to a.m. in other words.
Mr. BALL. It is 12:45 a.m., it runs up to a.m.
Mr. McWATTERS. That is what they run it to a.m. In other words, after
12:45 or in there, in other words, everything is punched p.m.
Mr. BALL. In other words, everything in the hour from 12 on is punched
a.m., the day time, 12 to one is a.m., 12 to 12:45, for that hour, a
transfer good in that hour is punched a.m., is that right?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, it can be punched a.m. up to, just like 12:45.
Mr. BALL. And the next punch is 1 o'clock and that is p.m.?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is p.m.; yes, sir. That is the way they have them.
Representative FORD. The day that you punched this particular transfer,
November 22?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir.
Representative FORD. You punched them the same that day as you did
every other day?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is right. Every day, in other words, I just punch
them p.m. I punch them p.m., and in other words, so it will be just a
straight cut across it.
Representative FORD. Is that the usual practice for all bus drivers to
use this practice?
Mr. McWATTERS. The practice they are supposed to cut them within the
quarter of the hour, but in other words, I just have been working that
run and I just, it is p.m., and I just make one trip one way and one
back the other, and so I--all I carry are two books of transfers and so
I just punch two books p.m., using one going one way at 1 o'clock and
the other coming back at 2.
Representative FORD. This is the practice you have used for 2 years
approximately?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is right, when I worked that run, in other words,
when I am going one way at 1 o'clock, coming back from the other end of
the line I set them at 2. I am back in there at, my next trip I am back
in there at Lamar Street, I think it is 1:38 but I always just set them
at 2 o'clock.
Mr. BALL. We have a couple of more pictures here. 378 and 379 which
are pictures of the interior of the bus--Nos. 379 and 380. (Picture
marked for identification as Commission Exhibit No. 374 is the same as
Commission Exhibit No. 379.)
I will first show you 379. Is that a picture of the bus from front to
rear of your bus?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; that is the front and that is the rear.
Mr. BALL. Here is 380, is that a picture of the bus taken from the
front taken looking towards the rear?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. I offer these in evidence, too.
Representative FORD. So admitted.
(The pictures referred to were marked Commission's Exhibits Nos. 379
and 380 and received in evidence.)
Mr. BALL. I have here an exhibit which I would like to have marked as
381 which can be identified as a transfer issued by Dallas Transit
Company, Friday, November 22, 1963.
Do you identify it, can you tell me, if you have ever seen that
transfer before?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, that is my punch mark right on that there; p.m.
(The transfer was marked Commission Exhibit No. 381 for identification.)
Mr. BALL. You issued it, did you?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Tell me when you issued it, on what run?
Mr. McWATTERS. I issued it on Marsalis and Munger line at I would
say, around to the best of my knowledge it would be around 12:40 or
somewheres in that vicinity on November 22.
Mr. BALL. And it has your punch mark, has it?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; that is my punch mark.
Mr. BALL. Identify it punched in the p.m. section?
Mr. McWATTERS. Of the Lakewood column here on the transfer.
Mr. BALL. When did you punch it exactly? Where were you when you
punched it?
Mr. McWATTERS. I punched it before I left the end of the line, in other
words.
Mr. BALL. This is number 004459, is the transfer number. Entitled "The
Shoppers Transfer." Every transfer has a separate number, has it?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; everyone has a separate number.
Mr. BALL. What we would like to do is mark a photostat of the transfer
as 381A and substitute the photostat and we can return the transfer to
the custody of the FBI.
Representative FORD. The exhibit will be admitted.
(The photostat referred to was marked Commission Exhibit 381A and
received in evidence.)
Representative FORD. How many of those transfers did you issue on this
particular run?