Mr. BALL. Describe it generally, you don't need to go into any detail.
Mr. McWATTERS. I would say from northeast Dallas in the Lakewood
addition of Dallas to the Oak Cliff addition of Dallas, which is, would
be southwest.
Mr. BALL. Would that be northeast to southwest?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is right.
Mr. BALL. There is a place near the downtown area of Dallas where you
timed your run, wasn't it?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; I have after I get into town, when I get into
the downtown part of it, now St. Paul Street is my official time point
going in, where they have a supervisor that stays at this checkpoint
there, to check all incoming vehicles.
Mr. BALL. You would be coming in from northeast Dallas at that time?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; I am coming in from the Lakewood addition of
Dallas, which I came in on. The main thoroughfare is Gaston Avenue.
Mr. BALL. And you got to the intersection of what street and St. Paul
when you were timed by your dispatcher?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is Elm, Elm Street.
Mr. BALL. Elm and St. Paul?
Mr. McWATTERS. Elm and St. Paul.
Mr. BALL. If you are ahead of time do you stop there until you are
assigned a time to get in?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, sir; no sir; you don't--a man he has his watch and
schedule. If you are ahead of your schedule he will come out and stop
you, in other words, and ask you if your watch is right or what is it,
you know, the idea of you being there. There is no excuse, you know for
a man being ahead of his schedule.
Mr. BALL. If you are ahead of your schedule does he stop you there
until you leave?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, that is right.
Mr. BALL. What time are you due, according to your schedule, to leave
the corner of St. Paul and Elm?
Mr. McWATTERS. 12:36.
Mr. BALL. What time did you leave there that day?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, I left there that day on time because coming into
town that day, I guess everybody done went to, down to, see the parade,
I didn't have over four or five passengers coming into downtown.
Mr. BALL. Were you ahead of your schedule?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, I stopped about a block before--now, just a block
before we get to St. Paul, there is a big theater there, and it has all
loading zones, no parking there and a lot of times if we are a minute
or two ahead of our schedule when we pull in in front of this theater
before we get there in time, in other words, we kill a minute.
Mr. BALL. What did you do this day?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, I was a little ahead of my schedule and I killed
about a minute, I guess, before I went to cross St. Paul Street.
Mr. BALL. After your dispatcher checked you in what time did you leave
that corner of St. Paul and Elm?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, the best I can remember I don't recall even
picking up a passenger there. I think I discharged one lady passenger
there on that, to the best I can recall, because I remember that I had,
when I crossed Field Street, I think I had five passengers on my bus.
Mr. BALL. Well then, back to the question, what time did you leave that
day, leave Elm and St. Paul?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, I would have to say I left there around, in other
words, 12:36 because I know I was on good time when I come in there.
Mr. BALL. And you think you left at the time you were supposed to leave?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, I am almost positive I did, because, as I say, we
generally come in on schedules on good time because from that street on
is where we generally--for the next seven or eight blocks--is where we
get all of our passengers going through the downtown area.
Mr. BALL. Had you heard any sirens before you got to St. Paul and Elm?
Mr. McWATTERS. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you know if your dispatcher keeps a written record?
Mr. McWATTERS. The only way he keeps a written record is if you are
ahead of your schedule. He has a little pad, and if a man is ahead of
his schedule, in other words, he writes, of course, we all go by badge
numbers, in other words, he would write your badge number, your bus
number, and if you was ahead of schedule he would write how much ahead
of schedule you were, and----
Mr. BALL. Do you think he did anything, did he write anything up on you
on that day?
Mr. McWATTERS. No, sir; the guy that we have down there now, if you are
ahead of schedule he will come out, in other words, because he stands
on the corner all the time, and if you are a minute or two ahead of
your schedule he will come out and if nothing else, converse with you
for a minute or two to see that you leave it on time and very seldom, I
mean, if ever--of course, a report goes in on you, it goes against your
record.
Mr. BALL. In other words, if he did make a record it would be by way of
a reprimand to you?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. As you went on down Elm you left your post at St. Paul and
Elm, did you hear any sirens?
Mr. McWATTERS. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you pick up any passengers?
Mr. McWATTERS. I picked up within a period of from the time I picked up
two or three passengers, I can't recall just exactly which stop. I have
after I leave St. Paul Street, I have Ervay Street and Akard Street,
and Field Street which would be three stops where I can't recall that,
exactly where I discharged or picked up passengers, because I had the
few passengers that I had which I came into town with.
Mr. BALL. Well then, do you remember picking up a passenger at a place
other than at a bus stop as you went down Elm?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir.
As I left Field Street, I pulled out into the, in other words, the
first lane of traffic and traffic was beginning to back up then; in
other words, it was blocked further down the street, and after I pulled
out in it for a short distance there I come to a complete stop, and
when I did, someone come up and beat on the door of the bus, and that
is about even with Griffin Street.
In other words, it is a street that dead ends into Elm Street which
there is no bus stop at this street, because I stopped across Field
Street in the middle of the intersection and it is just a short
distance onto Griffin Street, and that is when someone, a man, came up
and knocked on the door of the bus, and I opened the door of the bus
and he got on.
Mr. BALL. You were beyond Field and before you got to Griffin?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is right. It was along about even with Griffin
Street before I was stopped in the traffic.
Mr. BALL. And that is about seven or eight blocks from the Texas Book
Depository Building, isn't it?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir. It would be seven, I would say that is seven,
it would be about seven blocks.
Mr. BALL. From there?
Mr. McWATTERS. From there, yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did the man look like who knocked on your door and got
on your bus?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, I didn't pay any particular attention to him. He
was to me just dressed in what I would call work clothes, just some
type of little old jacket on, and I didn't pay any particular attention
to the man when he got on.
Mr. BALL. Paid his fare, did he?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; he just paid his fare and sat down on the
second cross seat on the right.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember whether or not you gave him a transfer?
Mr. McWATTERS. Not when he got on; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. You didn't. Did you ever give him a transfer?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; I gave him one about two blocks from where he
got on.
Mr. BALL. Did he ask you for a transfer?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what he said to you when he asked you for the
transfer?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, the reason I recall the incident, I had--there
was a lady that when I stopped in this traffic, there was a lady who
had a suitcase and she said, "I have got to make a 1 o'clock train at
Union Station," and she said, "I don't believe--from the looks of this
traffic you are going to be held up."
She said, "Would you give me a transfer and I am going to walk on
down," which is about from where I was at that time about 7 or 8 blocks
to Union Station and she asked me if I would give her a transfer in
case I did get through the traffic if I would pick her up on the way.
So, I said, "I sure will." So I gave her a transfer and opened the door
and as she was going out the gentleman I had picked up about 2 blocks
asked for a transfer and got off at the same place in the middle of
the block where the lady did.
Mr. BALL. Where was that near, what intersection?
Mr. McWATTERS. It was the intersection near Lamar Street, it was
near Poydras and Lamar Street. It is a short block, but the main
intersection there is Lamar Street.
Mr. BALL. He had been on the bus about 2 blocks?
Mr. McWATTERS. About 2 blocks; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Up to that time had you heard any sirens?
Mr. McWATTERS. Not up until--now just about the time that, let's see,
that is when I left Griffin, right about the time this gentleman got on
the bus the traffic was starting and that was about the first that I
can recall of hearing the sirens, but when, in other words, when they
started it seemed to me like they was coming from all over town.
Mr. BALL. Did you have a radio in your bus?
Mr. McWATTERS. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear a radio from nearby cars announcing anything
about the President's assassination?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, there was cars that were stopped alongside of the
bus and I think someone raised the window but I couldn't hear. I never
did hear anything outside of the----
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you first heard the President had been
shot?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, I was sitting in the bus, there was some gentleman
in front of me in a car, and he came back and walked up to the bus and
I opened the door and he said, "I have heard over my radio in my car
that the President has been--" I believe he used the word--"has been
shot."
Mr. BALL. Is that when you were stalled in traffic?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is right. That is when I was stalled right there.
Mr. BALL. Was that before or after the man got off the bus that asked
for the transfer?
Mr. McWATTERS. That was before. In other words, at that time no one had
gotten off the bus.
Mr. BALL. What was your location then, near what street?
Mr. McWATTERS. Between Poydras and Lamar, in other words, because I
stayed stopped there for, I guess oh, 3 or 4 minutes anyway before I
made any progress at that one stop right there and that is where the
gentleman got off the bus. In fact, I was talking to the man, the man
that come out of the car; in other words, he just stepped up in the
door of the bus, and was telling me that what he had heard over his
radio and that is when the lady who was standing there decided she
would walk and when the other gentleman decided he would also get off
at that point.
Mr. BALL. At that point.
What course did you take after that?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, I still was going west, in other words, in the
same direction, going west, in other words, towards Houston Street. In
other words, I went there before I changed my course which was about, I
would say, three or four blocks.
When I got to Houston Street, in other words, I turned to the left,
which would be south----
Mr. BALL. You went by the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; I turned at the corner of Elm Street and
Houston which this book store is on the opposite corner from where I
changed course there.
Mr. BALL. Was traffic still heavy along there?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; the traffic was still tied up, but the police,
they opened up a lane there, they had so many buses and everything that
was tied up, they opened up, moved traffic around that they run quite a
few of these buses through there.
In other words, from two blocks on this side of where the incident
happened they had, in other words, they was turning all the traffic to
the right and to the left, in other words, north and south.
Mr. BALL. You went on down to Houston viaduct then?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, I turned after they finally let--they weren't
letting any cars through at that time but they just run a bunch of
those buses through there.
Mr. BALL. Is there a bus stop in front of the Texas School Book
Depository Building?
Mr. McWATTERS. No, sir.
Mr. BALL, Where do you stop for that intersection?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, you stop, in other words, on this side of the
street.
Mr. BALL. You stop on the south side of, the southeast corner of the
intersection?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir.
In other words, like you would be going, direct south towards the
Building, the bus stop is on this corner over here on this side.
Mr. BALL. You mean the corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. McWATTERS. That is right.
Mr. BALL. Which corner, north, south, east, west?
Mr. McWATTERS. Well, it would be on the north.
Mr. BALL. North.
Mr. McWATTERS. On the north.
Mr. BALL. Here is a map and maybe you can show us where the bus stop
is. This is Exhibit No. 371.
Mr. McWATTERS. In other words, this is south, in other words.
Mr. BALL. This is west. You are going west on Elm.
Mr. McWATTERS. In other words, I am going--right here is where the
police had all traffic, they wasn't allowing anything to go any further
than Market Street here.
In other words, all the traffic there they were moving was turning
either to the right or left, on Market Street. But after they held us
up there so long, of course, they run these buses in this right lane
here and they did open up and let a bunch of these buses go right on
down here to Houston, of course, a lot of them go straight on and a
lot of them turn left to Houston Street, a lot of them go under the
underpass here.
Mr. BALL. Wait a minute, you turned to the left?
Mr. McWATTERS. I turned to the left.
Mr. BALL. On Houston?
Mr. McWATTERS. In other words, my last stop, in other words at this
corner right here on Record Street, all buses turning to the left have
to stop at this corner right here.
Mr. BALL. At Record and Elm?
Mr. McWATTERS. At Record and Elm.
Mr. BALL. Do you have a bus stop at Houston and Elm?
Mr. McWATTERS. Yes, sir; there is a bus stop there for the buses that
go on under the underpass.
Mr. BALL. Is there a bus stop for the buses that go south on Houston?
Mr. McWATTERS. No, sir; all the buses, we have to get in, this is a
one-way street and you have to get over in this lane here.
Mr. BALL. By the lane you mean the extreme left lane?