Mr. EUINS. The Book Depository Building.
Then he called some more cars. They got all the way around the
building. And then after that, well, he seen another man. Another man
told him he seen a man run out the back.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know who that man was who said somebody ran out the
back?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir. He was a construction man working back there.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you there when the man talked about somebody running
out the back?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir. He said the man had--he said he had kind of bald
spot on his head. And he said the man come back there.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know what the name of the man was who told the
police that someone had run out the back?
Mr. EUINS. . No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do next, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. So then they took me over to the county jail. And that is
where I told them what happened. And then they was standing around the
Book Depository Building, and I stayed over there to the jailhouse
about 6 o'clock. And then they took me home.
Mr. SPECTER. And did they question you about what happened and what you
observed on that occasion?
Mr. EUINS. At the jailhouse?
Mr. SPECTER. At the jailhouse.
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Amos, would you tell us everything that you can remember about what you
saw about the gun itself?
Mr. EUINS. Well, when I first got here on the corner, the President was
coming around the bend. That is when--I was looking at the building
then.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you think it was when you first saw it?
Mr. EUINS. I thought it was a piece of pipe or something sticking out
the window.
Mr. SPECTER. Did it look like it was a piece of metal to you?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; just a little round piece of pipe.
Mr. SPECTER. About an inch in diameter, would you say?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And how long was the piece of pipe that you saw?
Mr. EUINS. It was sticking out about that much.
Mr. SPECTER. About 14 or 15 inches?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir. And then after I seen it sticking out, after
awhile, that is when I heard the shot, and everybody started looking
around.
Mr. SPECTER. At that time, Amos, did you see anything besides the end
of the pipe?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. For example, you didn't see anything about a stock or any
other part of the rifle?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir--not with the first shot. You see, the President was
still right along down in here somewhere on the first shot.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, when you saw it on the first occasion, did you think
it was a rifle then? Or did that thought enter your mind?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I wasn't thinking about it then. But when I was
looking at it, when he shot, it sounded like a high-powered rifle,
after I listened to it awhile, because I had been in the NDCC for about
a year.
Mr. SPECTER. What is NDCC?
Mr. EUINS. We call it a military army for the boys, at our school.
Mr. SPECTER. Is that ROTC?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. ROTC. And have you had any opportunity to fire a weapon in
that ROTC class?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; not outside of just .22's. We fire them on the
firing range.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Now, when you looked up at the rifle later, you described seeing some
of the trigger part.
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, describe as fully as you can for us what you saw
then, Amos.
Mr. EUINS. Well, when he stuck it out, you know--after the President
had come on down the street further, you know he kind of stuck it out
more, you know.
Mr. SPECTER. How far was it sticking out of the window would you say
then, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. I would say it was about something like that.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating about 3 feet?
Mr. EUINS. You know--the trigger housing and stock and receiver group
out the window.
Mr. SPECTER. I can't understand you, Amos.
Mr. EUINS. It was enough to get the stock and receiving house and the
trigger housing to stick out the window.
Mr. SPECTER. The stock and receiving house?
Mr. EUINS. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, what direction was the rifle pointing?
Mr. EUINS. Down--what did you say--Elm?
Mr. SPECTER. Elm Street?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; down Elm.
Mr. SPECTER. Was it pointing in the direction of the President?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, could you see anything else on the gun?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I could not.
Mr. SPECTER. For example, could you see whether or not there was a
telescopic lens on the gun?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, is there anything else about the gun that you can
describe to us that you have not already told us about?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, what kind of a look, if any, did you have at the man
who was there?
Mr. EUINS. All I got to see was the man with a spot in his head,
because he had his head something like this.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating his face down, looking down the rifle?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; and I could see the spot on his head.
Mr. SPECTER. How would you describe that man for us?
Mr. EUINS. I wouldn't know how to describe him, because all I could see
was the spot and his hand.
Mr. SPECTER. Was he slender or was he fat?
Mr. EUINS. I didn't get to see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell from where you looked whether he was tall
or short?
Mr. EUINS. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Of what race was he, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. I couldn't tell, because these boxes were throwing a
reflection, shaded.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell whether he was a Negro gentleman or a white
man?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Couldn't even tell that? But you have described that he
had a bald----
Mr. EUINS. Spot in his head. Yes, sir; I could see the bald spot in his
head.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, could you tell what color hair he had?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you tell whether his hair was dark or light?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. How far back did the bald spot on his head go?
Mr. EUINS. I would say about right along in here.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating about 2-1/2 inches above where your hairline
is. Is that about what you are saying?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; right along in here.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you get a very good look at that man, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to tell anything about the clothes he was
wearing?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, when you were at the sheriff's department in the
police station that you have described, did they ask you to sign an
affidavit or statement for them, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. I now show you a paper, Amos, which I have marked as
Commission Exhibit No. 367.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 367 for
identification.)
Mr. SPECTER. This is supposed to be a statement which is signed. Let me
first point out to you that it is a copy of it. I ask you if this is a
copy of your signature?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Now, will you take your time, Amos, and read that over, and then I want
to ask you a couple of questions about it.
Did you have a chance to read it over?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Let me ask you about a couple of specific things here, Amos.
In the statement you say here that he was a white man. By reading the
statement, does that refresh your memory as to whether he was a white
man or not?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I told the man that I could see a white spot on his
head, but I didn't actually say it was a white man. I said I couldn't
tell. But I saw a white spot in his head.
Mr. SPECTER. Your best recollection at this moment is you still don't
know whether he was a white man or a Negro? All you can say is that you
saw a white spot on his head?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Then, did you tell the people at the police station that
he was a white man, or did they make a mistake when they wrote that
down here?
Mr. EUINS. They must have made a mistake, because I told them I could
see a white spot on his head.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, is there anything else in this statement, Amos, which
is different from the way you remember this event, as you are sitting
here right now?
Amos, did you understand the last question?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you answer it for us?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I don't think there is.
Mr. SPECTER. I don't understand you, Amos. The question I am trying to
get at it, as you read that statement over now, you have testified or
told us here today what you remember about this assassination?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And I am asking you, when you read that statement over,
is there anything on that statement which you think is wrong, based on
what you remember right now?
For example, you told us that they were wrong when they wrote down that
you identified him as a white man. Were they wrong about anything else
that they wrote down?
Mr. EUINS. Not that I can see.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
When you looked up and saw this man, Amos, did he have on a hat?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you notice any boxes behind him at that time, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; there were some boxes, you know, all the side of
the window. Like this window--there were some boxes in these windows up
here.
Mr. SPECTER. You saw some boxes in these windows?
Mr. EUINS. In these windows, and these windows, and there was boxes in
half of this one.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Now, mark the windows where you saw those boxes, Amos. Start off
with--mark the window "Y" where you saw boxes.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER. You made a figure 9, as I read it, on the two places you
saw boxes in the windows.
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; in this half.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, were there boxes in the window marked "X"?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir. There were about two or three of them right along
here.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the middle dividing line there?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that window marked "X" opened, Amos, or closed?
Mr. EUINS. It was open.
Mr. SPECTER. How far open was it?
Mr. EUINS. About that high.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating about 19 inches?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And was the window in the other double window immediately
next to the window marked "X" open or closed?
Mr. EUINS. The top window, on the sixth floor?
Mr. SPECTER. I am referring to the window right next to it.
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; it was not open.
Mr. SPECTER. Amos, when you heard the first shot, did you have any
reaction or impression as to where the noise was coming from at that
exact time?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; not at the exact time. You know, because everybody
else started looking around. So I just started looking around, thinking
it was a backfire, just like everyone else.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you look up towards that window before the second
shot, or just when the second shot occurred?
Mr. EUINS. I think--just a little before, because as soon as I did, I
looked at it--pow.
Mr. SPECTER. You heard a pow?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, as you were watching and heard, did you have the
impression that the noise you heard was coming from that rifle?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I didn't, because I wasn't thinking of the rifle at
first--you know, because it looked like a pipe at first.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say the second--when you heard the second shot,
when you say you were looking at the rifle, did you have the feeling
that the noise came from the rifle when you heard the second shot, when
you were looking at it?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, did you have any impression at all about where the
noise was coming from?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir; not on the first shot.
Mr. SPECTER. How about the second shot?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you think the noise was coming from on the
second shot?
Mr. EUINS. I seen him shoot on the second shot.
Mr. SPECTER. So you thought the noise was coming from the rifle on the
second shot?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you say you thought, or saw?
Mr. EUINS. I saw him shoot the second shot.
Mr. SPECTER. How high were those boxes behind him, Amos?
Mr. EUINS. They was probably about 2 feet high stacked in the back of
him.
Mr. SPECTER. Amos, were you questioned later by the FBI?
Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir; over in the office.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times were you questioned by the FBI?
Mr. EUINS. Oh, once.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you remember when that was?
Mr. EUINS. It was around about 2 or 3 o'clock.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you remember how many days after the assassination it
was?
Mr. EUINS. About 4.
Mr. SPECTER. You think they might have talked to you more than once?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, I move for the admission into evidence
of the statement marked Commission Exhibit 367.
The CHAIRMAN. That may be admitted.
(The document heretofore marked for identification as Commission
Exhibit No. 367 was received in evidence.)
Mr. SPECTER. That concludes the questioning I have, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wright?
Mr. WRIGHT. Nothing further, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, I would like to move for the admission
into evidence of all the exhibits here--365, 366, as well as 367.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
(The documents heretofore marked for identification as Commission
Exhibits Nos. 365 and 366, were received in evidence.)
The CHAIRMAN. Amos, you may be excused, then. Thank you very much for
coming and helping us out with your testimony.
We will recess until tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock.
_Wednesday, March 11, 1964_
TESTIMONY OF BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER, LINNIE MAE RANDLE, AND CORTLANDT
CUNNINGHAM
The President's Commission met at 9:45 a.m. on March 11, 1964, at 200
Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman
Cooper and Representative Gerald R. Ford, members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Joseph A. Ball,
assistant counsel; David W. Belin, assistant counsel; Albert E. Jenner,
Jr., assistant counsel; Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel; Norman
Redlich, assistant counsel; Charles Murray and Lewis E. Powell, Jr.,
observers.