Mr. KELLERMAN. We left the hospital; we have a time on that; it is 4
minutes after 2. It is about a 10-minute ride to the airplane.
Mr. SPECTER. On the question of timing, pinning down these times as
best we can, how long did it take you to get from the shooting incident
to the time you arrived at Parkland, based on your best estimates?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, it seemed like hours, but we flew there, I
honestly don't know. I can't really tell you.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate of the speed of your vehicle en
route from the shooting to the hospital?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I don't know.
Senator COOPER. Let the record show that Congressman Ford has to go to
his official duties in the House and that I, Senator Cooper, am now
acting as Chairman.
(At this point, Representative Ford left the hearing room.)
Senator COOPER. Go ahead.
Mr. SPECTER. Moving ahead, then, on to the sequences of time as best
you can recollect them, Mr. Kellerman, at what time was it ascertained
that the President had died and what was the basis of the pronouncement
of death.
Mr. KELLERMAN. That was on the death certificate, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you learn at or about 1 o'clock, while you were at
Parkland Hospital, that he had died?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I would think so. However, at that time let me say that
I wasn't watching any clock too closely and this time was given to me
by Dr. Burkley.
Mr. SPECTER. Then you have no independent recollection of time at
Parkland when the death was announced or pronounced?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, then, you have specified the time of departure from
Parkland Hospital and en route back to Love Field at what, sir?
Mr. KELLERMAN. We departed at 4 minutes after 2 from Parkland.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arrive at the President's plane?
Mr. KELLERMAN. 2:14.
Mr. SPECTER. What were your next activities?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Our next time, we had waited until Judge Sarah Hughes
had arrived for the swearing-in ceremonies.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did the swearing-in ceremonies occur?
Mr. KELLERMAN. 2:37 p.m.
Mr. SPECTER. And what time did the plane depart from Dallas?
Mr. KELLERMAN. We left at 2:48.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you present during the swearing-in ceremonies?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. In a general way, tell us who else was present there,
recognizing that you don't know all the people there.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. President Johnson, Mrs. Johnson, Mrs. Kennedy,
Malcolm Kilduff. He was the press secretary for that trip. Congressman
Thornberry, Congressman Thomas, Marie Fehmer, Mrs. Evelyn Lincoln,
Jack Valenti, Bill Moyers, Special Agent Johns. There was another
congressional man--I believe his name was Congressman Roberts--Brooks;
I am sorry; Congressman Brooks. The picture was taken by Capt. Cecil
Stoughton and myself.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did the President's plane arrive back at the
Washington area?
Mr. KELLERMAN. May I look at my notes, sir?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, you may. Identify for us, if you will, what notes you
are referring to.
Mr. KELLERMAN. 5:58 p.m. This is my report.
Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show that Mr. Kellerman has just referred
to a four-page report dated November 29, 1963, entitled "The
Assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, at
Dallas, Tex.," which is a copy of a report he made, three of the sheets
being carbon copies, and one being a photostatic reproduction. So that
our record may be complete, let the record show that this is the same
report which Mr. Kellerman submitted to the Secret Service which was,
in turn, submitted by the Secret Service to the Commission, as one of
the statements in Exhibit 12, statement 11, which was furnished by
the Secret Service to the Commission as the report of the U.S. Secret
Service on the assassination of President Kennedy, under the exhibits
section. I will return that to you.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Fine; thank you.
Mr. SPECTER. What were your activities; specifically where did you land
in the Washington area?
Mr. KELLERMAN. We landed at Andrews Air Force Base.
Mr. SPECTER. What were your activities then, immediately after landing
at Andrews?
Mr. KELLERMAN. While en route from Dallas to Washington, D.C., I had
several telephone communications with my special agent in charge,
Gerald Behn, concerning this, transportation for the people aboard
the plane, an ambulance for the body of President Kennedy, and my
instructions. I was instructed to stay with the late President
Kennedy. Aboard this plane were agents of the 4-to-12 shift which, as
I mentioned earlier, was under the supervision of Mr. Stewart Stout;
a conference was held with Mr. Rufus Youngblood, who was in charge of
the Johnson detail at that time. He was informed that he would take
all the agents under Mr. Stout's supervision and they would remain with
them for the remainder of the day. That I would have Special Agents
Hill, Landis, Greer, and O'Leary.
As we arrived at Andrews Air Force Base, arrangements were made prior
to having a lift brought up to the rear end of the plane, whereby all
the agents were requested by Mrs. Kennedy to carry this casket from the
plane to the ambulance. It was put aboard this carrier; from there we
took it from the carrier into the Navy ambulance. Mrs. Kennedy rode in
the back seat, or in the rear part of the ambulance, with Mr. Robert
Kennedy and General McHugh.
In the front seat the ambulance was driven by Special Agent Greer, of
which Agents Landis and myself and Dr. Burkley rode in the front seat
to the U.S. Naval Hospital in Bethesda. At that point Navy officials
there instructed us where to take the ambulance, to what part of the
building, and remove the casket into the morgue facilities.
As we landed in Andrews Air Force Base, I was met by our Chief, Mr.
James Rowley, who informed me that Mr. Sibert and Mr. O'Neill of the
FBI would join me at the Naval Hospital and to allow them in. I also
informed him that the vehicles--that is, the President's car and our
Secret Service followup car--are en route to Washington from Dallas,
and that he should assign some members from our Washington field office
to go over these cars for any evidence that might be left. In the
morgue, I should say that Special Agent Greer and myself remained all
night, Mr. O'Leary only briefly.