"On the other side of the overpass a motorcycle policeman was
roughriding across some grass to the trestle for the railroad tracks,
across the overpass. He brought his cycle to a halt and leapt from it
and was running up the base of the trestle when I lost sight of him."
Mr. RANKIN. Can you give us the date of the paper that came from?
Mr. LANE. Yes. That was the Texas Observer, November 29, 1963. That
statement has been confirmed by Mr. Dugger to me in two interviews in
Dallas.
James Vachule, who is a reporter for the Fort Worth Star Telegram,
said, "I heard the shots, several, at the triple overpass."
And Jerry Flemmons, reporting also for the Fort Worth Star Telegram,
on November 22, 1963, stated, "Kennedy was gunned down by an assassin,
apparently standing on the overpass above the freeway."
Now, I spoke to a Mary Woodward, who is an employee of the Dallas
Morning News, and she stated that she was present with three coworkers,
all employees of the Dallas Morning News, and they were standing near
the--the base of the grassy knoll, perhaps 50 feet or so from the
overpass, with the overpass to their right, and the book depository
building to their left. And on November 23, 1963, the Dallas Morning
News ran a story by Miss Woodward, and I have since that time spoken
with Miss Woodward by telephone, and she has confirmed portions--the
entire portion which I will quote from now--in her conversation with me.
That is, that as she and her three coworkers waited for the President
to pass, on the grassy slope just east of the triple overpass, she
explained that the President approached and acknowledged their cheers
and the cheers of others, "he faced forward again, and suddenly there
was an ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the
right."
Here we have a statement, then, by an employee of the Dallas Morning
News, evidently speaking--she indicated to me that she was speaking on
behalf of all four employees, all of whom stated that the shots came
from the direction of the overpass, which was to their right, and not
at all from the Book Depository Building, which was to their left.
Miss Woodward continued, "Instead of speeding up the car, the car came
to a halt. Things are a little bit hazy from this point, but I don't
believe anyone was hit with the first bullet. The President and Mrs.
Kennedy turned and looked around as if they, too, didn't believe the
noise was really coming from a gun. Then after a moment's pause there
was another shot, and I saw the President slumping in the car."
This would seem to be consistent with the statement by Miss Hill that
more than three shots were fired.
In addition to these statements, James A. Chaney, who is a Dallas
motorcycle policeman, was quoted in the Houston Chronicle on November
24, 1963, as stating that the first shot missed entirely. He said he
was 6 feet to the right and front of the President's car, moving about
15 miles an hour, and when the first shot was fired. "I thought it was
a backfire", he said.
Now, Miss Hill told me that when she was questioned--put that word
unfortunately in quotation marks--by the U.S. Secret Service agents,
that they indicated to her what her testimony should be, and that is
that she only heard three shots. And she insisted that she heard from
four to six shots. And she said that at least one agent of the Secret
Service said to her, "There were three wounds and there were three
shells, so we are only saying three shots." And they raised with her
the possibility that instead of hearing more than three shots, that she
might have heard firecrackers exploding, or that she might have heard
echoes.
Despite this type of questioning by the Secret Service, Miss Hill
continued to maintain, the last I spoke with her, about a week ago,
that she heard from four to six shots.
Now, to the best of my knowledge, from my investigation, which has been
very severely limited by lack of personnel and almost total lack of
funds, and, therefore, is clearly not the kind of investigation which
is required here--but from this limited investigation, it seems that
only two persons immediately charged into the Texas Book Depository
Building after the shots were fired. They were an officer of the Dallas
Police Force, Seymour Weitzman, who submitted an affidavit to the
Dallas police office, in which he stated that he discovered the rifle
on the sixth floor of the Book Depository Building.
There was one other gentleman who ran into the building, and that was
Roy S. Truly, who was and is, I believe, the director of the Book
Depository Building.
However, Mr. Truly stated that he believed that the shots came from the
direction of the overpass and from the grassy knoll. And although he
was standing directly in front of the Book Depository Building, he did
not believe that the shots came from that building.
Standing with him at the time of the assassination was O. V. Campbell,
who was the vice president of the Book Depository Building.
In the Dallas Morning News on November 23, 1963, it was stated that
"Campbell says he ran toward a grassy knoll to the west of the building
where he thought the sniper had hidden."
So we have two persons that we know of standing in front of the Book
Depository Building, and they both thought that the shots came from the
grassy knoll near the overpass.
The police officer, Seymour Weitzman, submitted an affidavit to the
Dallas district attorney's office, he and Mr. Truly, as I indicated
a moment ago were the only two who charged into the Book Depository
Building when the shots were fired.
Weitzman indicated in his affidavit--I assume you have the original of
that affidavit--that he ran "in a northwest direction, scaled the fence
toward where we thought the shots came from."
He indicated "then someone said they thought the shots came from the
old Texas Building. I immediately ran to the Texas Building and started
looking inside."
So even the two people who ran into the building indicated that they
did not believe the shots came from the building.
Mr. Weitzman went into the building because someone whose name he
did not give in his affidavit told him to go into the building, and
then Truly explained that although he thought the shots came from the
general direction of the grassy knoll or the overpass in front of the
President's limousine, he saw this officer run into the building, of
which he is a director, and he felt that since he knew the building and
the officer did not, he should go in the building to assist the officer.
From published accounts, and from my investigation, I can only find one
person who thought that the shots came from the building, and that was
the Chief of Police in Dallas, Jesse Curry, who said as soon as the
shots were fired, he knew they came from the building. From the Book
Depository Building.
Now, of course, there were many persons present there whom I have not
quoted, to whom I have no access.
Now, I spoke on several occasions with the reporter for the Fort Worth
Star Telegram, whose name is Thayer Waldo. Mr. Waldo was standing with
a police captain near the Dallas Trade Mart Building, which was the
building, public building, where the President was going to have spoken
that day. Mr. Waldo was awaiting his arrival, the President's arrival
there, when a sergeant who was seated in a police cruiser called the
captain over hurriedly to the police car. Mr. Waldo accompanied the
captain to the police car. And Mr. Waldo stated to me that he heard
the first bulletin which came over the Dallas police radio, and it was
"Bulletin. The President has been shot. It is feared that others in his
party have been wounded. The shots came from a triple overpass in front
of the Presidential automobile."
So even the police, despite the Chief of Police's later assertion that
he knew that the shots came from the Book Depository Building, behind
the Presidential limousine, the first police radio broadcast indicated
that it was the police position at that time that the shots came from
the front, not from the rear.
Now, Patrolman Chaney, who I made reference to a little earlier,
the motorcycle patrolman, stated that the Presidential car stopped
momentarily after the first shot. That statement was consistent
with Miss Woodward's statement in the Dallas Morning News, that the
automobile came to almost a complete halt after the first shot, and the
statement of many other witnesses as well.
Mr. RANKIN. When was that statement made?
Mr. LANE. That statement appeared in the newspaper I made reference to
before, the Houston Chronicle, on November 24, 1963.
Mr. RANKIN. When you made an independent inquiry at any time, would you
tell us, Mr. Lane?
Mr. LANE. Yes, I certainly shall do that.
Now, I think one has to conjecture as to why the Secret Service agent
who was undoubtedly trained for this assignment, and particularly the
agent who was driving the Presidential limousine in Dallas, where
we were told that the greatest efforts ever to protect an American
President were going to be made that day, because of the previous
difficulties in Dallas, the attack upon our Ambassador to the United
Nations and the attack upon the then Senator Johnson, when he spoke in
Dallas in 1960--one would assume that the most qualified Secret Service
driver that could be secured would be driving that automobile. It is
difficult to understand why the automobile almost came to a complete
stop after the first shot was fired, if the shots were coming from the
rear. The natural inclination, it would seem, would be to step on the
gas and accelerate as quickly as possible. However, if the driver were
under the impression that the shots were from the front, one could
understand his hesitation in not wanting to drive closer to the sniper
or snipers.
In addition, however, Roy Kellerman, who was in the front right-hand
seat of the automobile, who I am told was in charge of the Secret
Service operation that day, the director of the Secret Service not
being present in Dallas on that occasion--according to the pictures
printed in Life magazine, Mr. Kellerman looked forward until the first
shot was fired. Then he turned back, and looked at the President. He
immediately looked forward again, and was looking in the direction of
the overpass while the second shot was fired, and while the third shot
was fired.
One would certainly expect that Mr. Kellerman was and is a trained
observer, who would not panic in such a circumstance, for which he has
received his training.
The pictures I make reference to are those in Life magazine which I
referred to a little earlier in the afternoon.
Senator COOPER. May I ask a question there, Mr. Chief Justice?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, go right ahead, Senator.
Senator COOPER. This last statement you made, about the Secret Service
agent who turned, so that he was faced to the rear, toward the
President, and then turned forward--I didn't quite understand what you
deduced from that.
Mr. LANE. I assumed that he was looking toward the sound of the shots.
Senator COOPER. You mean when he turned to the rear, or turned ahead?
Mr. LANE. Well, when the President was shot, and was struck he then
turned around, which I would imagine would be an ordinary response when
somebody in an automobile with whom you are riding has been shot.
But immediately after that, before the second shot was fired, he turned
completely to the front, and was looking at the overpass during the
remainder of the time that the shots were fired. It would seem to
indicate to me that it is possible that Mr. Kellerman felt that the
shots were coming from the general direction in which he was looking.
Mr. RANKIN. What do you base your statement on that the car stopped,
the President's limousine?
Mr. LANE. The statement made by various witnesses, including Mr.
Chaney, a motorcycle policeman, Miss Woodward, who was one of the
closest witnesses to the President at the time that he was shot, and
others. I think that is the--I haven't documented that beyond that,
because that seemed to be so generally conceded by almost everyone,
that the automobile came to--almost came to a complete halt after the
first shot--did not quite stop, but almost did. And, of course, you
have the films, I assume, of the assassination and know more about that
than I do, certainly.
Now, in reference to the rifle, there is on file--I assume that you
have it or copies of it--in the Dallas district attorney's office or
the police office in Dallas, an affidavit sworn to by Officer Weitzman,
in which he indicates that he discovered the rifle on the sixth floor
of the Book Depository Building at, I believe, 1:22 p.m., on November
22, 1963.
Now, in this affidavit, Officer Weitzman swore that the murder
weapon--that the weapon which he found on the sixth floor was a
7.65 Mauser, which he then went on to describe in some detail, with
reference to the color of the strap, et cetera.
Now, the prosecuting attorney, of course, took exactly the same
position, and for hours insisted that the rifle discovered on the sixth
floor was a German Mauser, adding the nationality. A German Mauser is
nothing at all like an Italian carbine. I think almost any rifle expert
will indicate that that is so.
I have been informed that almost every Mauser--and I am not able to
document this, unfortunately, but I am sure that you have easy access
to rifle experts--that almost every German Mauser has stamped upon it
the caliber, as does almost every Italian carbine.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know the difference between the two?
Mr. LANE. Do I know the difference?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mr. LANE. I know the difference between an Army M-l and an American
carbine--those are the only two weapons I fired--during the war. No, I
don't know anything about rifles, other than those two rifles, which I
used at one time.
I think it is most interesting to note that when Oswald was arrested
we were informed immediately that he had an alias--his last name was
Lee in that alias--as well as a great deal of material about his
political background and activities on behalf of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee, and his defection to the Soviet Union, et cetera. But the
alias was raised immediately.
The following day, on the 23d, when it was announced by the Federal
Bureau of Investigation, that Oswald had purchased an Italian carbine,
6.5 millimeters, under the assumed name, A. Hidell, then for the first
time the district attorney of Dallas indicated that the rifle in his
possession, the alleged murder weapon, had changed both nationality
and size, and had become from a German 7.65 Mauser, an Italian 6.5
carbine. And, further he indicated then for the first time that they
knew of another alias maintained by Lee Oswald. In addition to the
name Lee, which they discovered, they said, by going to the home where
he lived--the house where he had lived in Dallas, where he rented a
room, a rooming house, they discovered there he had secured the room
under the name Lee. Mr. Wade stated that on Oswald's person, in his
pocketbook, was an identification card made out to A. Hidell, and
I have seen pictures of this reproduced in either Time magazine or
Newsweek, or one of the weekly news magazines--I believe it was one or
the other--with a picture of Oswald appearing on this card, plainly
indicating that Oswald had the alias A. Hidell, to Mr. Wade.
I think it is interesting that the name Lee as an alias was released
immediately, although some investigation was required to secure that
alias. But the name A. Hidell, was not released as an alias, although
that was present and obvious by mere search of Oswald's person when he
was arrested.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you give us the time of the release of the information
about the alias, A. Hidell?
Mr. LANE. That was on November 23.
Mr. RANKIN. And how about Lee?
Mr. LANE. November 22. The first release of the name A. Hidell came
from the district attorney's office after the FBI had indicated that
Oswald had purchased an Italian carbine under that name.
If I were permitted to cross-examine Mr. Wade, which evidently you have
decided that I shall not be permitted to do, and Officer Weitzman, I
would seek to find out how about the most important single element in
probably this case or any other murder case, physical evidence, the
murder weapon, in a case which I am sure is Mr. Wade's most important
case--how he could be so completely in error about this.
Mr. Wade is a very distinguished prosecuting attorney, has been one for
some 13 or 14 years, and I believe was an agent of the Federal Bureau
of Investigation prior to that time.
I would like to know how he could have been so wrong about something so
vital.
Now, assuming that the rifle found on the sixth floor was an Italian
rifle, Italian carbine, one must wonder how it was possible for any
number of things to happen for it to be fired there three times and
strike the President in front of the throat, although he was past
that building, and for the noise, according to the witnesses of the
shooting, to have come from a different place entirely.
But in addition to that, one must wonder if that rifle is capable of
the performance which the prosecuting authorities allege that it gave
on that day. An Olympic rifle champion, Hubert Hammerer, said that he
doubts that it could be done.
Mr. RANKIN. Could you give us his address?
Mr. LANE. He is not in the United States. The story appeared in the New
York Times. I don't have the exact date.
Representative FORD. What nationality is he?
Mr. LANE. I don't know.
Representative FORD. Do you know when he was Olympic champion?
Mr. LANE. No, I don't know that. I do know it probably was some time
after the Italian carbine was manufactured, since it is an extremely
old weapon, manufactured back in 1938, as I recall. There seems to be
an agreement that the period of time was between 5 and 6 seconds from
the first shot to the last shot.
There is a serious question in the minds, I think, of persons who have
fired that pistol--that rifle--first of all, as to its ability to be
fired that quickly accurately with a telescopic sight, and secondly, in
reference to the ammunition which is available. Various persons have
tested various lots of ammunition. Someone from the National Rifle
Association told me that he tested more than 30 rounds, a little over
30 rounds of the Italian 6.5----
Mr. RANKIN. When you refer to these people, will you tell us the names
of any of them that you can? It might be of help to us.
Mr. LANE. I should remember this gentleman, because I just spoke with
him. That is another name I am going to have to supply for you.
Mr. RANKIN. Thank you.
Mr. LANE. He is a member of the board of directors of the National
Rifle Association. He purchased for one of the television networks some
30 rounds, a little over 30 rounds, and told me that 20 of them did
not fire at all, and 6 of them were guilty of hanged fire, which is a
phrase I don't know anything about, but he tells me that means it did
not fire fully, and, therefore, could not be accurate. Therefore, a
very small percentage of the ammunition was of any value.
Mr. Ed Wallace talked about making a similar test in the New York World
Telegram and Sun, in a feature article, and I think he said that he
went with an expert, and they got 20 rounds of this ammunition, and of
those 17 did not fire--only 3 fired. It was very old ammunition.
Representative FORD. Who is Ed Wallace, and who is the individual that
Ed Wallace referred to? Do you have that information?
Mr. LANE. I believe Mr. Wallace indicated that he was present when the
test was made. But it was an article appearing in the New York World
Telegram and Sun within a week after the assassination--from the 23d to
the 30th of November. And I can secure and mail to you a copy of that
article, if you prefer.
While there may be some question as to whether or not a rifle expert
could secure such performance from a rifle, or whether or not one could
secure enough good ammunition to get such performance, I think there
is general agreement that only in the hands of a rifle expert could
one attempt to come close to that kind of shooting that it is alleged
Oswald did on November 22.
The Times reported on November 23, "As Marines go, Lee Harvey Oswald
was not highly regarded as a rifleman." And you have in your files,
of course, the scorecard indicating Oswald's marksmanship or lack of
marksmanship while in the Marine Corps.
In addition to that, you have the documents given to you by Marguerite
Oswald, Lee Oswald's mother, which contained a scorecard maintained by
Oswald while in the Marine Corps, showing his score in fast and slow
shooting at various different yardages, in reference to both an M-l, as
I recall, and an American carbine. Now, of course, it has been alleged
on occasion that Mr. Oswald practiced with his rifle, on occasion, on
weekends, at rifle ranges.
Mrs. Paine, with whom Lee Oswald's wife lived for the 2 month period
preceding the assassination, and where Lee Oswald himself spent
weekends for that 2 months period preceding the assassination, told me
that Oswald could not have ever gone to a rifle range on a weekend,
since she can account for his whereabouts during that entire 2 month
period just preceding the assassination.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you give us the day of that conversation with Mrs.
Paine?
Mr. LANE. I have had about five conversations with her. The first one
would be, oh, I believe, New Year's Day. I think that is the first
time--this year--I believe that is the first time that she made the
statement to me. She said she could account for Oswald's whereabouts
during that 2 month period on weekends, from Friday late afternoon,
when he left work in Dallas and arrived there in Irving, until early
Monday morning.
She said the exception is during that time--she didn't watch him every
moment, of course--there might be exceptions when she went shopping for
half an hour, and he was left home to take care of the children, her
two children, his children. But that unless he ran out quickly into the
back yard with the rifle and shot and then quickly put the rifle away
while caring for three children, or four children, that it would be
impossible for him to practice with the rifle on weekends.
Since it has been alleged that the rifle was in the garage during the
entire period of time, of course--that was in Irving, Tex., and he was
in Dallas, Tex.--it would have been impossible for him to practice
during the week while he was in Dallas, with that particular rifle.
Of course one must zero in a rifle in order to be even fairly accurate
with it. One must practice with the specific weapon which one is going
to use, in order to have any accuracy, in any event.
Now, I spoke with Dial M. Ryder, who is a gunsmith in Irving, Tex.,
at the Irving Sport Shop, and he told me that he mounted a telescopic
sight on a rifle for a man named Oswald during October 1963.
Now, unfortunately, he does not recall--that is around the deer
season, he informed me, and a lot of people are getting rifles
fixed or repaired or sights mounted on them during that time in the
Dallas-Irving area. And he does not recall, therefore, what this
gentleman named Oswald looks like.
But he does know that a rifle was brought to him by someone whose name
now appears in this record as Oswald, and that he drilled three holes
in the rifle for a mount, telescopic mount. He said he had only seen
three rifles which required three holes for telescopic mount--a 303
British Enfield, a 303 American Springfield army surplus rifle, or an
Eddystone, which is also an American rifle. He said, therefore, he did
not attach a telescopic sight to the Italian carbine, because he would
have only drilled two holes.
His employer, I think his name is Greener, he told me, checked with all
the Oswalds they could find in the Irving area after this matter came
to their attention, and could not find anyone in that area--and they
called some people in Dallas also named Oswald--could not find anyone
named Oswald who brought the rifle in to him.
I talked to Milton Klein, who is the owner of Klein's sporting
goods store in Chicago--Klein's Sporting Goods is the name of the
establishment, in Chicago.
Mr. RANKIN. When was this?
Mr. LANE. I spoke with him within the last 2 or 3 days. And he told
me that--he runs the mail-order house which sent the carbine, Italian
carbine, to Dallas, not to Oswald, but to A. Hidell, and that he sent
that out with the holes already bored in the Italian carbine, and
equipped with a telescopic sight which was already attached to the
rifle.
Aguto Marcelli, who is a correspondent for an Italian publication which
appears physically very much to be like Life magazine, called Leuropeo,
stated to me that he had spoken with Mr. Klein, and Mr. Klein told him
that the FBI--"The FBI warned me to keep my trap shut."
Mr. RANKIN. When was this?
Mr. LANE. He told me this about 2 weeks ago. When I spoke with Mr.
Klein, about 3 days ago, 2 or 3 days ago, he indicated that he did not
want to discuss any aspect of this matter with me. And I asked him if
that was because he was told not to talk with anyone about this case,
and he said yes.