Mr. DULLES. Was she disturbed, I mean was she annoyed, visibly annoyed,
that Marina wouldn't see her. She didn't know Marina was in the house,
I realize that.
Mr. MARTIN. She didn't know Marina was in the house. I am certain she
didn't.
Mr. REDLICH. You mean her children were running around the house
though, weren't they?
Mr. MARTIN. Her children were running in the living room and dining
room.
Mr. DULLES. But not into the den?
Mr. MARTIN. But not into the den and kitchen.
Representative FORD. Do you have a door on the den so you can close the
den off?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes. She talked mostly about generalities and she would
like to see Marina to make sure she is well taken care of, and so on.
She was concerned about her. And she came back after that time, she
came back once more. I wasn't there. My wife answered the door and
didn't invite her in.
Mr. DULLES. How long a trip is it from your house to Mrs. Paine's,
roughly, a few miles?
Mr. MARTIN. No, a good 20 miles.
Mr. DULLES. A good 20 miles?
Mr. MARTIN. Because it is 30 miles out to the Inn, and she lives about
8 or 10 miles toward me from the Inn, so it is about 20 miles.
Mr. REDLICH. Your wife did not invite Mrs. Paine into the house at that
time?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. Was this at Marina's urging?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes. Mrs. Paine was quite upset at that--that is what Wanda
said, she looked upset at that time.
Representative FORD. On this occasion, did Mrs. Paine know Marina was
in the house?
Mr. MARTIN. No, I don't believe so.
Mr. DULLES. Did she ask where she was, specifically?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. DULLES. She didn't ask?
Mr. REDLICH. What was the purpose of her visit?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't believe--let's see, she may have brought something
that day, too. I don't recall whether she did or not. I know right
after that, the Civil Liberties Union got into it. Well, Mark Lane, was
first.
Mr. REDLICH. You say right after that Mark Lane got into it?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. Would you elaborate on that?
Mr. MARTIN. Mark Lane came to Dallas, and contacted John Thorne and I.
We met him at the Statler and talked to him at lunch, and he expressed
a desire to talk to Marina Oswald so that he could represent her
husband, defend her husband in a hearing, and we told him that we would
relay that information to her.
So we did, and she said that she didn't want to have any
representation. She didn't want any more----
Mr. REDLICH. You mean she didn't want any representation for Lee Oswald?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, she didn't want any more to do about it.
Representative FORD. Can you recall the date of this visit by Mr. Lane?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Representative FORD. Was it in December or January?
Mr. MARTIN. It was in January, I believe.
Mr. REDLICH. And you transmitted Mr. Lane's message to Marina?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, and she said that she didn't want any representation
for Lee.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you tell her this in English?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, and explained it to her, and at that time she could
understand.
Mr. DULLES. To your knowledge, did Marina ever meet Mr. Lane?
Mr. MARTIN. Not to my knowledge, no.
Mr. REDLICH. And you also related the Ruth Paine, second Ruth Paine,
visit to your home to something which you referred to as the American
Civil Liberties Union business.
Mr. MARTIN. It was right after--these incidents happened rather
closely. The letter from the Civil Liberties Union--well, first we
received a telephone call from the Civil Liberties Union wanting to see
Marina Oswald.
Representative FORD. Telephone call from Dallas or New York, or what?
Mr. MARTIN. From Richardson, the same person who wrote the letter which
you have there. Do you have that?
Mr. REDLICH. We do have. We are inventorying many of these documents of
which the American Civil Liberties letter is one and we will introduce
it at an appropriate time.
Mr. MARTIN. Richardson is a suburb of Dallas. This gentleman called,
what was his name?
Mr. LEECH. I can't remember it.
Mr. REDLICH. Would it refresh your recollection if I mentioned the name
Olds?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, Greg Olds. He called on the phone and wanted to see
Marina Oswald, wanted to make sure she was being properly represented,
that she knew her rights, and so on and so forth.
John Thorne talked to him, and told him that he represented Marina
Oswald, and that he was definitely sure that all her rights were being
observed.
Then I think there was another phone call from them still wanting to
see Marina Oswald, and I talked to Marina and she said well, she would
talk to him. So they arranged a meeting with a third party, I can't
remember his name, who was a minister of some kind, and then Marina
changed her mind and said no, she didn't want to go at all, she didn't
want to talk to any of them. So then they wrote the letter. They wrote
a letter to her in Russian and sent one to me in English, one to John
Thorne in English, and I believe one to the Secret Service and one to
the FBI.
Mr. LEECH. Do you want to mention about their press releases at this
time?
Mr. MARTIN. There were a number of press releases at that time also
that she was being held incognito and not able to----
Mr. REDLICH. You mean incognito or incommunicado?
Mr. MARTIN. Incommunicado.
Representative FORD. Press releases by whom?
Mr. MARTIN. The Civil Liberties Union, and so they sent this letter to
her and she answered it with a two-page letter in Russian.
Representative FORD. In Russian?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. Do you have a copy of that two-page letter?
Mr. MARTIN. No. She wrote it, put it in an envelope, put a stamp on it
and I mailed it. I didn't open it or look in it in any way. And that
seemed to be the end of it, but they still persisted they wanted to see
her.
Mr. REDLICH. And the reason Marina did not see them was entirely her
own volition?
Mr. MARTIN. Her own.
Mr. DULLES. She never talked to you about what was in the letter?
Mr. MARTIN. No, she said she just told them she didn't want to see them.
Mr. DULLES. In two pages?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; This was quoted, a portion of the letter was
quoted, in the Worker.
Representative FORD. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that we get, if possible,
a copy of the original of that letter.
Mr. MARTIN. You probably can get it from Greg Olds.
Mr. DULLES. Would you make a note of that. I think we should do that.
That was dated sometime in the middle of January?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe so. The letter you have--she wadded the letter
up that was written to her in Russian and threw it away, and I got it
back out, and asked her to go ahead and write them a letter so it would
quiet them. So she said she would and she wrote a letter, I think,
that night, so it would be within a couple of days of the date of that
letter, the English copy of which you have.
Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Chairman, if you would like, we could take a 3- or
4-minute recess and I could get the American Civil Liberties Union
letter to Marina Oswald and introduce it at this time for the sake of
clarity in the record.
Mr. DULLES. Good. It is a good time for a breather.
(Short recess.)
The CHAIRMAN. All right, gentlemen, the Commission will be in order.
You are familiar with, Mr. Dulles, you are familiar with, the hearing
up to date. You go right ahead and preside, if you will.
Mr. DULLES. Mr. Redlich will you go right ahead with your questions?
Mr. REDLICH. I believe Congressman Ford, you said you wanted to ask
your questions prior to your leaving.
Representative FORD. Do you wish to have that letter entered as an
exhibit at this point before I ask several questions?
Mr. REDLICH. The witness has produced before this Commission a letter
which I now mark Commission Exhibit No. 331 on the Dallas Civil
Liberties Union stationery, addressed to Mr. John Thorne, James Martin,
Mr. Sorrels, Secret Service, Mrs. Lee H. Oswald, and the Federal Bureau
of Investigation.