Pall Mall, Jan. 22nd, 1783.
My dear Brother,
I sit down to give you a mere outline of what passed to-day.
Townshend said that, in pursuance of the notice given before the
holidays, he rose to submit to the House a proposition on the
subject of Ireland; that he did not intend to go into the
subject, but only to move for leave to bring in a Bill. He then
read the motion; disclaimed every idea of impeaching the
settlement of last year; stated that Lord Mansfield could not do
otherwise; but that this had had the effect of increasing the
doubts that had arisen in Ireland; that it was the intention of
Government to leave no possibility of cavil upon the exclusive
rights of judicature and legislation.
I seconded the motion, and said, That as the motion which was
made went only to the bringing in a Bill, it was not my
intention to trouble the House with much upon the subject; but
that in the situation in which I stood I could not, consistently
with those feelings which pressed so strongly upon me, and with
my sense of the duty I owed to both kingdoms, refrain from
expressing the sincere and heartfelt pleasure I received from
seeing the business brought forward by Government in the
earliest moment, and the eager and earnest wish of my heart that
the Bill to be brought in in consequence of this motion might
obtain the end proposed by it, and set those questions for ever
at rest which it was hoped that the transaction of the last year
had fully and finally quieted; that here I must disavow in the
strongest manner all intention of casting any reflection, or of
acquiescing in any reflection, which might be cast on the honour
and integrity of the transaction of last year as conducted by
the Government of this country, and by the gentlemen who treated
with Government on the part of Ireland; that those gentlemen had
acted as true and sincere friends to their country, and to the
harmony of the empire; that the right honourable gentleman who
then moved the business in that House had declared at that time,
and had repeated the declaration a few days ago, that those
gentlemen treated with him upon the expressed and avowed
principle of putting an end to every idea of legislation and
jurisdiction on the part of Great Britain over Ireland; that as
such I considered it; that the right honourable gentleman had
also stated the reasons which operated, and I thought operated
wisely, against the adoption of other ideas which had then
occurred; that the dignity and honour of Ireland was too nearly
connected with, and too inseparable from, the dignity and honour
of Great Britain, to make them desire that Great Britain should
humble herself by an acknowledgment that the right which she had
so long exercised had been usurped; that, on the other hand, it
would have been absurd to have asserted the right at the very
moment that it was to be abandoned for ever: such an assertion
could answer no good end, and could only serve to wound the
feelings of a nation whom it was intended by that transaction to
bind by the strongest ties of affection, as they were already
bound by the strongest ties of interest, with Great Britain.
These were the reasons why it had been brought forward in the
manner in which it had; and every friend to both countries, or
to either, must certainly wish that it had proved satisfactory.
But it could not be concealed that doubts had arisen upon the
operation and effect of the transaction, and that if such doubts
had prevailed--if from reasons, possibly ill-founded, they had
been adopted by many well-intentioned men, and if those doubts
had been strengthened by the late decision of the Court of
King's Bench, however necessary that decision might be, from the
circumstance of the cause having been set down for hearing
before anything had passed in the House on the subject of
Ireland, and if that decision induced a necessity--as it
certainly did--of passing a Bill for preventing any writ of
error from being received, it was surely an act of policy and
magnanimity in Great Britain, it was consistent with the honour
and dignity of the House to set that question for ever at rest
by an authentic and solemn avowal of that which was avowed by
all the parties to the transaction, and to place upon the
records of Parliament a lasting monument of the good faith and
justice of Great Britain.
It was with this view that I gave my most hearty consent and
support to this motion; with this view that I hoped it would
meet, not only with the general support, but, if I might be
allowed to hope so much, with the unanimous concurrence of the
House; because I wished very much to show to Ireland that it was
the unanimous determination of the House to abide by those
principles which had been unanimously adopted in the last
session, which had at the opening of the present session
received His Majesty's approbation, and had met again with the
unanimous approbation of both Houses in their Addresses to the
Throne; and because I wished also to demonstrate that nothing
which had happened since last year--that no change which had
taken place in the Government, either here or in Ireland; no
alteration of the circumstances of this country, either with
regard to Ireland or to the rest of the world; and particularly
nothing of that which I hoped I, an uninformed man, might be
allowed to call the near hope and prospect of peace--had made
any difference whatever in those sentiments of justice, of
liberality and of affection to Ireland which had actuated and, I
trusted, ever would actuate, the conduct of the Parliament of
Great Britain.
After this there was a long conversation rather than debate.
Eden said that he did not mean to oppose the motion; but that
when he proposed the repeal last year, he had given his opinion
that it would be and ought to be satisfactory. In the first
opinion he was confirmed by the following paragraph in the
Addresses: "Gratified in this, we const:" &c., &c.; that he
thought the other was equally evident from the transaction
itself, &c.; but that from the moment he found that the contrary
idea was taken up by Mr. Walsh's precision, by Mr. Flood's
prodigious ability, and by the Recorder's integrity, he knew it
would prevail. He then said that there were still matters which
required adjustment; and instanced several acts made Irish by
Yelverton's Bill, which would expire in this country in the case
of peace, and the re-enacting of which would not prevent their
dropping in Ireland; but I own I doubt this on the construction
of Yelverton's Bill.
Fitzpatrick said he did not mean to oppose this Bill; but at the
same time he was exceedingly sorry that the motion went beyond
the mere case of judicature which called for the interference of
Parliament; that it professed to remove jealousies and
discontents; that this was impossible; that there would always
be found men to start grounds of jealousies, &c.--men whose
consequence arose only from ferment; that the body of the
country was satisfied; spoke a good deal at different times
about the Duke of Portland's friends and their honourable
support.
Lord Beauchamp said, that as far as he understood the intentions
of Government, he approved of them--understanding them to go to
a complete derilection of the right in terms so as not to be
undone again. He entered at large into the arguments against
simple repeal; and, in answer to Fitzpatrick, who had dwelt much
on the resolution of the Houses of Parliament as speaking the
sense of the nation, in contradiction to the Volunteer
resolutions, said that he wondered to hear such an argument from
him, who took the sense of the people of England in taverns and
at clubs, &c., &c.
Fitzpatrick replied to him: went over much the same ground;
defended the simple repeal; then retorted upon Lord Beauchamp;
and took his pamphlet out of his pocket, and reading his last
sentence, that his lips should be closed for ever upon the
subject, observed that he, in his turn, was a little surprised,
after this, to hear the noble Lord's lips opened to run a race
with Government, &c., &c.
I then desired to explain, that so far from saying that the Bill
was to be grounded on the insufficiency of the repeal, I had
said the direct contrary, and had stated a few days ago in the
House, my full opinion that the faith of Great Britain had
thereby been pledged to Ireland upon the avowed principle of
putting an end to every idea of legislation and jurisdiction
over that kingdom, and that nothing was implied by the present
motion which went to impeach that.
Fox then spoke. He went over the ground of simple repeal;
defended Grattan and his friends very warmly; and seemed to
imply pretty strongly, though he did not quite express it, that
you was to abandon--to desert those men of high integrity and
honour, whose great abilities were the smallest part of their
merit, &c. It is impossible to go over the whole of what he
said; but it chiefly turned upon these heads: he said that no
Bill would do if there was not confidence; that such a system
should be adopted as to ensure this confidence, not to humiliate
the Parliament of Great Britain by bringing propositions founded
on supposed discontents, &c.; that the judicature was given up,
as far as related to appeals, by the repeal of the Declaratory
Act; that writs of error were prohibited by the Irish Act;
however, a Bill might be necessary to prevent here the exercise
of a nugatory jurisdiction; but that if the preamble of that
Bill was, as had been stated by Fitzpatrick and Lord Beauchamp,
as a case to be approved of, to declare the intention, he did
not conceive how it would alter the question at all, for if the
repeal was ineffectual, it would not make it less so, &c.
I again got up to desire that it might be understood that I had
not said anything which could in any way be construed into an
idea of abandoning, of deserting, &c., &c., men of whom I
entertained the highest opinion--men in whose integrity I knew
Government might confide with safety, and whose abilities were,
as he had said, great as they were, the least part of their
merit.
Mr. Percival said something about a law to try persons for
crimes committed in Ireland in England, and desired we would
attend to that, and give it up. I mean to do so. MacDonald asked
if it was meant that all idea of legislation and jurisdiction
should be given up. Townshend said, undoubtedly.
Pitt then closed the business with great ability. He said that
he was happy to find that, although much conversation rather
than debate had taken place, much of which he thought
superfluous, still, as to the motion and the main object of it,
the avowing in direct terms, &c., &c., that had been unanimously
agreed to on all sides of the House. He added, in answer to Fox,
that he trusted it would be found that the Government was
placed, both in England and in Ireland, in the hands of persons
who would not less merit the confidence, would adopt measures
not less calculated to promote the peace, happiness and
prosperity of Ireland, at the same time, with an attention not
less scrupulous to the dignity of the English Parliament, than
any other man or set of men whatever.
Thus ended this business, without any division or opposition,
every man having prefaced his speech with a declaration of his
intention not to oppose the motion. I cannot help thinking that,
considering all circumstances, and particularly considering my
own very delicate and awkward situation, the whole has not gone
off ill. I am impatient to receive your approbation of Dunning's
Bill. You see what Fox would say of a preamble.
You must not think of printing this debate, whatever you may do
with my speech; because it would not be common justice to other
people, whose speeches I have stated so very loosely and
shortly, and it would be known for a Government publication. I
think, even for mine, you had better wait till you get the
English papers, from which it would naturally be copied in
Ireland, and then insert mine instead. Adieu.
Ever yours.