REMARKS IN THE SENATE, ON THE BILL FOR THE APPORTIONMENT OF
REPRESENTATIVES AMONG THE STATES, JANUARY 29, 1872.
MR. PRESIDENT,--Before the vote is taken I desire to make one remark. I
was struck with the suggestion of the Senator from Ohio [Mr. SHERMAN],
the other day, with regard to the proposition which comes from the
House. He reminded us that it was a House proposition, and that it was
natural that the House should be allowed to regulate itself. I think
there is much in that worthy of consideration. I doubt if the Senate
would receive with much favor any proposition from the House especially
applicable to us. I think we should be disposed to repel it. I think we
should say that our experience should enable us to judge that question
better than the experience of the House. And now I ask whether the
experience of the House does not enable them to judge of the question
of numbers better than we can judge of it? On general grounds I confess
I should myself prefer a smaller House; personally I incline that way;
but I am not willing on that point to set myself against the House.
Then, Sir, I cannot be insensible to the experience of other countries.
I do not know whether Senators have troubled themselves on that head;
but if they have not, I think it will not be uninteresting to them to
have their attention called to the numbers of the great legislative
bodies of the world at this moment. For instance, beginning with
England, there is the upper House, the Chamber of Peers, composed of
four hundred and sixty-six members; then the lower House, the House
of Commons, with six hundred and fifty-eight members. We know that,
practically, these members attend only in comparatively small numbers;
that it is only on great questions that either House is full.
MR. TRUMBULL. Did the House of Lords ever have anything like that
number present?
MR. SUMNER. It has had several hundred. There are four hundred and
sixty-six entitled to seats in the House of Lords.
Pass over to France. The National Assembly, sitting at Versailles at
this moment, elected February 8 and July 2, 1871, consists of seven
hundred and thirty-eight members.
Pass on to Prussia. The upper Chamber of the Parliament of Prussia has
two hundred and sixty-seven members; the lower Chamber has four hundred
and thirty-two. Now we all know that Prussia is a country where no rule
of administration or of constitution is adopted lightly, and everything
is considered, if I may so express myself, in the light of science.
Pass to Austria, under the recent organization. You are aware that
there are two different Parliaments now in Austria,--one for what is
called the cis-Leithan territories, territories this side of the river
Leitha; the other, trans-Leithan, or those on the other side, being the
Hungarian territory. Beginning with those on this side of the river,
the upper House consists of one hundred and seventy-five members:
observe, it is more than twice as large as our Senate. The lower House
consists of two hundred and three members: smaller than our House of
Representatives. But now pass to the other side of the river and look
at the Hungarian Parliament. There the upper House contains two hundred
and sixty-six members, and the lower House, or Chamber of Deputies, as
it is called, four hundred and thirty-eight.
Pass to Italy, a country organized under a new constitution in the
light of European and American experience, liberal, and with a
disposition to found its institutions on the basis of science. The
Senate of Italy contains two hundred and seventy members, the Chamber
of Deputies five hundred and eight.
Then pass to Spain. There the upper branch of the Cortes contains one
hundred and ninety-six members, and the lower branch four hundred and
sixteen.
So that you will find in all these countries,--Great Britain, France,
Prussia, Austria in its two Parliaments, Italy, and Spain,--that the
number adopted for the lower House is much larger than any now proposed
for our House of Representatives.
I call attention to this fact because it illustrates by the experience
of other nations what may be considered as a rule on this subject. At
any rate, it shows that other nations are not deterred by anything in
political experience from having a House with these large numbers;
and this perhaps is of more value because European writers, political
philosophers for successive generations, have warred against large
bodies. We have the famous saying of the Cardinal de Retz, that
any body of men above a hundred is a mob; and that saying, coming
from so consummate a statesman and wit, has passed into a proverb,
doubtless affecting the judgment of many minds; and yet in the face of
this testimony, and with the writings of political philosophers all
inclining against numbers, we find that the actual practical experience
of Europe has gone the other way. The popular branch in all these
considerable countries is much more numerous than it is now proposed to
make our House of Representatives.
REFORM AND PURITY IN GOVERNMENT: NEUTRAL DUTIES. SALE OF ARMS TO
BELLIGERENT FRANCE.