PURPOSE OF THE BUREAU’S ENDEAVORS:

I might go on to cite many such cases, but my time allotted is

insufficient. My purpose is simply to inform you that it is the wish of

the Director and his associates in the Veterans’ Bureau that it and its

co-operating agencies may give to each case a human touch, reflecting

personal interest and I can think of no better maxim for our guidance

than the title of Charles Reade’s book, “Put Yourself In His Place,”—and

give service as you would have it given unto you.”

MR. BURKE: stated that in the absence of Major Fraser his subject would be

taken up by Mr. Milliken.

MR. J. B. MILLIKEN, of the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau, discussed the subject

“Relation of U. S. Veterans’ Bureau to other existing bureaus in caring

for its beneficiaries”, as follows:

“Ladies, Mr. Chairman, and Gentlemen: The subject of my twenty minutes

talk to you might more appropriately be termed the relation of the U. S.

Veterans’ Bureau to all the Executive Departments of the Government, for

indeed, there is not a Department of this government with which the U.

S. Veterans’ Bureau does not have a vital and immediate contact.

Probably there are three Executive Departments of the Government with

which the Bureau has more contact than with the other Executive

Departments—that of the Treasury Department, the War Department, and the

Navy Department. Inasmuch as the U. S. Public Health Service is a part

of the Treasury Department our contact with this Department of the

government is immediate and vital, and is of more immediate importance

than our contact with the other Executive Departments.

As is appreciated, no hospitals are operated directly by the U. S.

Veterans’ Bureau, and all hospitals with the exception of contract

hospitals are operated by the other independent establishments of the

government, the Public Health Service of course having the lion’s share

in providing facilities, and prior to the Act of August 9, 1921 creating

the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau, the U. S. Public Health Service had charge

of the various fourteen district offices where was stationed at each

district office a Supervisor.

The Secretary of the Treasury’s order of April 19, 1921 transferred the

functions of the District Supervisor’s Office to the then Bureau of War

Risk Insurance, and the Act of August 9, 1921 transferred by law the

activities of these offices to the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau, but left

unhampered the jurisdiction and authority of the U. S. Public Health

Service concerning matters of hospitalization.

Without the work of the facilities afforded by the U. S. Public Health

Service it would indeed be impossible for the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau to

function and discharge its obligations relative to the hospitalization,

medical care, and treatment of disabled ex-service men and women.

Co-ordination of their work has led to the fullest cooperation on the

part of every agency, to the end that the disabled ex-service man is

receiving the best treatment which a grateful government can provide.

You have, of course, before you all the data and information relative to

the extent of the work carried on by the U. S. Public Health Service as

it relates to the beneficiaries of the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau.

The relation of this Bureau to the War and Navy Departments is

fundamental, for the reason that before any person can be accorded the

benefits provided for under the act creating the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau,

a record must be obtained from the War or Navy Department showing the

military or naval record of the person seeking benefits either for

compensation, insurance, vocational training, or medical care and

treatment. Something over 900,000 requests have been made to date on the

War and Navy Departments requesting a transcript of the military or

naval record of the person while in the active service and there has

been no diminution in the number of reports requested daily, in that our

average number of requests each day is about 1,000. The matter of

furnishing adequately the transcript of record of an ex-service man or

woman, showing whether or not they received any medical treatment while

in the active service is indeed a most difficult problem. It must be

remembered cases are now arising where a given individual has been

discharged from the military or naval service for a period of

approximately three years, and that in all probability they did not

receive medical care or treatment while in the service, but their health

has become impaired subsequent to their discharge from the service.

Quite true they might have had some slight attack of influenza while in

the service or some other disability, but did not report for medical

care and treatment.

The most of these individuals believe that the War or the Navy

Department should have had a record of such indisposition on their part,

and that, in turn, it is up to the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau to secure such

a record upon which to predicate the service origin of a given

disability. Certainly not in the history of this government has the

military and naval establishments been called upon to complete and

compile the records of statistics and facts comparable to that resulting

from the late war, and while there have been many mistakes made both on

the part of the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau in requesting the information and

on the part of the War and Navy Departments in submitting information,

the great bulk of work has been performed in a most satisfactory manner,

and great benefits have been accorded to those applying for the same

under the beneficent laws passed by our Congress.

On January 1st, 1922 there had been filed with the U. S. Veterans’

Bureau 81400 claims for compensation. In each and every claim filed it

was necessary to request the War or Navy Department for the military or

naval record of the person applying for compensation benefits, and in

many instances it was necessary to make duplicate requests because of

inadequate identification given or of additional evidence which the

claimant submitted which would make it possible for the War or Navy

Department to make a more exhaustive search of their records. To show

the promptness with which reports have been received from the War and

Navy Departments for no claim is either allowed or disallowed without a

report from the War or Navy Department—out of the 814,000 claims filed,

51% have been allowed, 41% have been disallowed, and 8% are pending

awaiting information either from the War or Navy Departments or from the

claimant himself.

Also to December 15th, 1921, 486,884 former service men had requested

vocational training. It was necessary for the Rehabilitation Division of

the Federal Board for Vocational Education, (now a part of the U. S.

Veterans’ Bureau), to request the military or naval record from the War

or Navy Department, and out of that number 299,000 had been declared

eligible for training; 135,000 had been declared ineligible for

training; and 51,000 cases were pending to determine their rights to

vocational training. These figures also represent a tremendous work

required of the War and Navy Departments in that the records of each man

must be obtained before final disposition was made of the case.

When viewed from the stupendous task, the results accomplished are

indeed commendable.

The great assistance of the War and Navy Departments should also not be

overlooked when it is remembered that at the date of the signing of the

Armistice there were approximately $40,000,000,000 worth of insurance in

force which had been written through the service of the War and Navy

Departments in providing insurance officers to make contact with every

man who was a member of the military or naval forces.

The War and navy Departments have always been of tremendous assistance

in the matter of hospitalization of ex-service men and women. On

December 1st, there were 1,410 beds occupied in Army Hospitals, and

2,032 beds occupied in Naval Hospitals. Certainly then from this resumé

of facts the contact with the War and Navy Departments is most vital.

The contact of the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau with the Post Office

Department is apparent. It need only be mentioned that to date the U.S.

Veterans’ Bureau, representing the consolidated agencies since their

organization have received approximately 90,000,000 incoming pieces of

mail, and have dispatched approximately 105,000,000 pieces of mail, and

the daily average receipt of incoming mail in the Bureau, even under

decentralization, is approximately 41,000 pieces of mail per day and the

outgoing pieces of mail from the Central Office of the Veterans’ Bureau

is approximately 58,000 pieces of mail per day.

The Veterans’ Bureau as you have been informed relative to the care of

ex-service men of foreign allied countries and of American soldiers

residing in allied countries has a vital contact with the State

Department in addressing their communications to the various foreign

countries and in the utilization of the various U. S. Consuls.

The Department of Justice has charge of all suits filed against the U.

S. Veterans’ Bureau where suit is brought on an insurance contract. The

department of Justice also handles all prosecutions where irregularities

are found under the act creating the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau.

Under the Interior Department you know of the use made of the St.

Elizabeth’s Hospital and of hospitals under the jurisdiction of the

Commissioners of Indian Affairs.

The contact is also quite vital with the Department of the Interior in

obtaining various information from the Pension Bureau as a person may be

filing an application for compensation and also an application for a

pension.

The Department of Agriculture has been of very great assistance to the

Bureau in rendering advice relative to the training of disabled

ex-service men with a vocational handicap who desire to take up

agricultural pursuits, and at the present time the Department of

Agriculture is rendering most valuable service in mapping out

agricultural courses for the first Vocational School of the Government

located at Chillicothe, Ohio.

Many disabled ex-service men taking vocational training have been

assisted by the Department of Commerce in mapping out their careers for

work incident to that of the Department of Commerce.

The Department of Labor has been of very great assistance in aiding the

Bureau to find employment objectives for disabled ex-service men

undergoing training or who have been rehabilitated by the U. S.

Veterans’ Bureau.

This will give you a general view of the relation of the U. S. Veterans’

Bureau to the Executive Departments of the government. The U. S.

Veterans’ Bureau naturally must have a close contact with the Congress.

Congress continually calls upon the Bureau for data and information

which can only be obtained from the other Executive Departments of the

government but which immediately relate to the work of the U. S.

Veterans’ Bureau.

Inasmuch as you Gentlemen are essentially interested in hospital

administration, I should like to speak briefly on the question of

hospital records, and what data the Bureau is required to have when it

is called before Congress relative to Appropriations. As you know,

Congress makes one appropriation to the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau for

Medical and Hospitals Services. Sums from this appropriation are in turn

allotted to the U.S. Public Health Service, the War and the Navy

Departments, the Interior Department, and the National Homes for

Disabled Volunteer’ Soldiers. When the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau is called

before Congress for every appropriation it must show specifically how

the money has been allotted, for what purposes it has been allotted, and

the result accomplished.

It has become imperative for the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau to have

available comprehensive records concerning all hospitals in which there

are being treated its beneficiaries. It is not sufficient that these

records be only those concerning the admission and discharge of patients

and the physical examination report in each instance, but equally

fundamental data concerning the results of treatment, periodical

turn-over of patients, the hospitals’ administration, and of equal

importance, but from a different angle, the cost of operation with the

resulting per diem cost per patient.

A considerable part of the records on patients, their flow in and out of

hospitals and similar data are available or can be made available, the

value of these data so derived, of course, will be proportionate to the

accuracy or thoroughness with which the records of admission and

discharge are prepared and transmitted. The report of admission and

discharge of patients and the report of physical examination are at

present the only reports common to all Government Hospitals. The

necessity for the prompt rendering of accurate admission and discharge

reports and physical examination reports in all instances is apparent.

Such reports are of very great importance to the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau,

for upon them is determined the medical rating of the hospitalized

beneficiaries and any delay or omission in the rendering of records of

this character reflects upon the administration of the U. S. Veterans’

Bureau.

In regard to the individual hospital operation costs, until very

recently the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau has been operating in the dark on

unit costs. It is demanded that the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau have complete

knowledge of the cost of operating all government hospitals, not merely

as a gross item, but classified by purpose of expenditure and by

department of hospital for which spent. The reason for this point is

made two-fold—First, that the Bureau before it can allot money to the

several services for hospital expense, must be in a position to know for

what purpose the money should be disbursed; and second, because the

Congress of the United States is holding the Bureau accountable for all

moneys appropriated to it and unless this Bureau can tell Congress in

detail this money has been spent, or is to be disbursed, our

hospitalization program will be jeopardized until such information can

be secured.

The per diem rates for hospitals of the several services vary materially

so far as our estimates are concerned. The degree to which such a

variation in rates is only an apparent variation due to the different

bases upon which they are calculated is not at present ascertainable,

but it should be. Not only should this Bureau know what it costs for its

own patients at any one institution, but it should know the per diem

cost over a given period for all the patients hospitalized there. The

cost to this Bureau affects not only our appropriation; the cost to the

service operating the hospital, including this Bureau’s share, but it

affects the U. S. Treasury. If the cost of maintenance of certain

hospitals is excessive, it would be poor business not to evacuate that

hospital, if other conditions made it practicable, or if impracticable

to attempt to reduce its operating cost.

Recently the U. S. Public Health Service inaugurated a system of cost

accounting by individual hospitals. With the perfection of this

procedure the U. S. Veterans’ Bureau will be in a position to talk

intelligently about operating costs with these hospitals whether by

departments of hospitals, purposes of disbursement, such as salaries,

repairs, etc., or by unit costs.

The U. S. Veterans’ Bureau looks forward to the time when similar data

are available and regularly submitted by the War Department, the Navy

Department and the National Homes for Volunteer Disabled Soldiers, not

merely as reimbursements due certain appropriations, but by actual

disbursements of detailed purpose of not only for this Bureau’s share,

but for total operations.

The U. S. Veterans’ Bureau also maintains contact with the various

miscellaneous Departments and institutions of the government. Time will

not permit of going into any details or of mentioning these contacts.

The U. S. Veterans’ Bureau when viewed from its huge task of running an

insurance company with over three and one-half billions of insurance in

force, of making payments on 149,000 insurance claims each month, making

payment on 204,000 compensation claims each month, with approximately

29,000 ex-service men and women undergoing hospitalization, and having

caused to be made over 1,000,000 medical examinations and responsible

for 104,000 disabled ex-service men undergoing vocational training,

representing a task which calls for the closest cooperation and

assistance from every department of the government and only by having

the closest cooperation possible will the government, through the U. S.

Veterans’ Bureau, be able to discharge its obligations to the host of

disabled ex-service men and women of this country.

The Bureau has always enjoyed the fullest cooperation from the various

departments of the government and knows that the same cooperation will

be extended with unstinted measure in the future, to the end that every

pledge will be redeemed concerning the care and treatment of the

defenders of this Republic, and to the end that this administration will

go down in history as an administration that did not forget its sick and

wounded soldiers, and brought peace and contentment to every fireside

where assistance on the part of the government was requested and was

due.”

COLONEL JAMES A. MATTISON, N. H. D. V. S, gave the following discussion of

“Economy of Administration in U. S. Veterans’ Hospitals”:

“The subject is so broad that we can only consider certain phases of it

within the time allotted for this paper. We all recognize that there are

certain fundamental essentials which must of necessity be provided in

every hospital regardless of the number of patients cared for. This

necessarily means that overhead expenses of an institution hospitalizing

small numbers of patients will be out of proportion to those of a

hospital caring for a large number.

The general business management, the purchasing of supplies and

equipment, the conservation and dispensing of the same, the elimination

of waste, etc,. will be considered only casually for the purpose of

emphasizing the importance of adhering as closely to strict business

methods as is done in the case of every successful business man, whether

he be a hospital executive, a merchant, or a man in any other line of

business.

In this connection, it might be said that a mistake which is made in

many government institutions, and one which is not made by the most

successful business men, is to attempt to start on economy at a place

where one can least afford to economize, that is in the pay and

allowances of the personnel immediately responsible for the management

of the institution, the responsible heads of departments, etc. In other

words, we are not always willing to pay for brains, a price commensurate

with the business responsibility involved. Again when we have been

fortunate enough to secure the right man the right place, we do not

always recognize his value by paying him a price commensurate with the

value of his work. Furthermore, when we have made the mistake of getting

the wrong man, who in reality is receiving a greater compensation than

his services are worth, and one who, in reality, is a very expensive

employee, we oftentimes make the mistake of not recognizing inefficiency

and promptly correcting it,

In case there is any decided handicap along the lines of inefficiency in

the responsible personnel in the administrative, utility, service or

professional departments, it should be promptly corrected, as it is to

those in such petitions to whom we constantly look to be on the alert in

recognizing the short comings of all subordinate personnel.

In visiting our own or other hospitals we promptly recognize the

presence or absence of evidence of the proper vigilance or efficiency in

every department. In case of a tour of inspection of one of these

institutions there should be found spurting steam valves, leaking water

faucets, extravagant use of electric lights, overheated buildings,

garbage and swill tanks running over with waste food supplies, evidence

of lack of organization and co-operation on the part of the personnel,

professional or otherwise, we should immediately recognize the fact that

there was inefficiency existing in the personnel of such an institution,

and as a result of this, a decided lack of economical and efficient

administration. Finding such conditions in other departments, we should

expect to find unsatisfactory conditions when the patient population was

reached. We should expect to find histories poorly written or not

written at all, patients waiting over-time for special examinations or

special treatments, lack of accurate laboratory and X-ray records, etc.

The matter of such inefficiency and consequent poor administration on

the part of the personnel in any institution would naturally lead to

great dissatisfaction on the part of the patients of such an institution

and to the greatest lack of economy on the part of the administration,

of the hospital.

In connection with the professional department proper, again the

attainment of the most satisfactory results from the standpoint, both of

economy and efficiency, is dependent upon the capacity and co-operation

of the responsible personnel. There has been much discussion in regard

to the number of professional personnel doctors, nurses, attendants,

etc., and on this subject there has been apparently wide differences of

opinion. However, these differences have been based upon differences of

viewpoints of what the actual conditions to be met were.

A definite agreement has been reached in regard to the required

personnel, nurses, doctors, attendants, social service, workers,

etc., to each two hundred patients in a hospital caring for all

acute patients, whether they be major surgical, acute active

neuro-psychiatric, active tuberculosis, or other type of acute

condition requiring active, constructive treatment.

As a matter of fact, however, we all know that in none of our Veterans’

Hospitals, especially the larger ones of 500 to 1000 or more beds, are

all the patients or even a majority of them represented by this type of

patients, on the contrary we have a large group of convalescent patients

who require professionally very much less attention from the standpoint

of active constructive treatment, dietetic attention, etc., and hence

require vastly less personnel, and the expense of their maintenance in

the hospital will be very greatly reduced from that of the acute type.

Again, we have another group which represents the semi-domiciliary type,

many of whom require very slight constructive treatment, and yet they

belong to a type of patients who are capable of being finally

rehabilitated and restored to an earning status in life. This group

requires still less care than the former, and naturally less personnel

and proportionately less per capita cost to the institution caring for

them. Lastly, we pass to a purely domiciliary group who are to a large

measure permanently disabled and are, therefore, many of them, to be

permanent charges oh the Veterans’ Hospitals. The great majority of the

latter group will require little or no special treatment, but will

require only general care and maintenance. In this group we are dealing

with a type who will represent the minimum per capita cost.

As time goes on we shall realize, especially in our larger hospitals,

that the above condition will exist to a larger and larger measure and

the necessity of a very close checking system and a very careful

classification of the patients along the lines indicated above will be a

matter of the very highest importance.

This does not mean that as long as special treatment along any line is

needed that each patient will not have such expert examinations, care

and treatment as his condition calls for. Quite the contrary, the most

careful and competent examinations should be directed by hospital units

composed of the most competent staff of men including surgical; medical;

ear, nose and throat; X-ray., etc., at such intervals as the condition

of the patient calls for. It will be by this system alone that we are to

keep a check on the progress toward recovery of each individual patient

and prevent an undue accumulation of a domiciliary group. By proper

cooperation of such a group with the rehabilitation section, many men

may be selected as suitable persons for rehabilitation in the vocational

schools. The importance of this we all realize as there is a certain

percentage of patients who will be quite content with their state as

long as they are receiving complete maintenance and a liberal

compensation of from $80 to $150 per month and no cares and no

responsibilities to assume in life. That is we should be constantly on

the alert to prevent making permanent residents or charges of any man

who can be restored to an earning status in life.

Contrast, if you please, with the conditions in our hospitals the

patient in private hospital, who is paying from $10 to $50 per day for

private nursing, hospital accommodations, etc., and a correspondingly

high rate for special professional services, and who in addition to this

is losing heavily because of his absence from his personal business. In

the latter case there is a much greater incentive for getting well, a

greater incentive for requesting that special nurses and other expenses

be cut off at the earliest moment it is found that they are no longer

needed and for the additional request that they be discharged from the

hospital as early as possible after the maximum benefits from

hospitalization have been received. In the one case, the private patient

is paying freely a large sum of money to get well. In the other case,

the patients of our Veterans’ hospitals in many cases are paid liberally

for being sick.

In making the above statement, we do not wish to be misunderstood. We

all know that we have among our patients in the Veterans’ Hospitals some

of the best type of men anywhere to be found; some of the most

ambitious; some who are exceedingly anxious to have their health

restored and be returned to an earning status in life at the earliest

possible moment; but, unfortunately, this does not apply by any manner

of means to all the patients whom we are hospitalizing. Out of the

disabled arising from an army of nearly five million men, naturally

there will bob up representative types of every manner of man in

existence. As representatives of Veterans’ Hospitals we owe to our

Government as well as to our patient our best efforts to help, not only

toward the rehabilitation of every soldier who can be rehabilitated but

we are also obligated to help develop this program upon the most

economical basis without sacrificing efficiency and the most

satisfactory constructive results.”

MR. BURKE: stated that the subjects were now open for discussion, and called

on Colonel Patterson for a few words.

COLONEL PATTERSON, of the U.S. Veterans’ Bureau,: stated that it had been a

great personal loss to him that he had been unable to attend all of the

meetings. He then spoke on the policy of the Veterans’ Bureau with

respect to the utilization of contract hospitals and Government

institutions. He stated that the Bureau has been for some months

endeavoring to take the beneficiaries of the Bureau out of contract

institutions and put them into Governmental institutions for several

reasons—first, the law says we must utilize to the maximum extent the

Government facilities in existence. Another reason is that the majority

of contract hospitals are unsatisfactory from the treatment standpoint,

if from no other reason, as many of these contract hospitals are purely

boarding houses which originated merely for the purpose of making money

out of the Government, by taking care of beneficiaries of the Veterans’

Bureau. Of course there are many contract hospitals in which this is not

true, but it has been determined that better treatment at least equal

cost can be obtained in the Government hospital. Another reason is that

the civilian hospital is not particularly interested and does not desire

to make the necessary reports. He also mentioned discipline. The

contract hospitals do not like to discipline a man because it may lead

to the loss of that patient. He stated that every time the Hospital

Section of the Medical Division recommends the closing of a contract

hospital the Bureau is immediately bombarded by letters from

Congressmen, Senators, the American Legion, United Veterans, and other

organizations, but the Veterans’ Bureau has been trying to stand firm.

The next subject he took up was the fact that a beneficiary gets more

compensation while he is in a hospital. This, however, cannot be changed

except by Act of Congress, and the Medical Division has recommended to

the Director that the man’s compensation be reduced while he is in the

hospital.

He took up next disciplinary regulations. With regard to payment of

transportation, he stated that this money could not be deducted from the

man’s compensation without Congressional action.

He spoke also on the fact that under the Vocational Rehabilitation Act a

man discharged with a disability not connected with the service, who has

been denied compensation, can get training even if his disability is the

direct result of his own misconduct, and that he is entitled to

treatment for any disease contracted while taking training if it

interferes with the continuance of his training. The Medical Division

recommended some time ago that Section 3 training be discontinued and

that no man be given training unless his disability is the result of

service or aggravated thereby.

He said he hoped that the gentlemen present would express their opinion

as to whether or not meetings similar to this one should be held

annually.

With regard to the attitude of the Veterans’ Bureau towards the various

Services, he stated that when allegations are made all the Veterans’

Bureau can do is to send them to the Head of the Service, asking him to

take the usual steps to find out whether or not those things are true.

On the other hand, if there is a charge a man is mistreated, the

Veterans’ Bureau must investigate it. It is a very peculiar situation

for one Department to investigate something conducted in another

Department.

Regarding complaints, he cited one case. A letter was received from an

insane man in the west Roxbury Hospital, who signed the letter “All the

patients in the hospital”, and complained about everything in the

institution. A letter was immediately received from a Congressman, then

another, and one from a Senator. The institution had been inspected only

ten days previous and the Veterans’ Bureau was sure the allegations were

not true, but sent out another man to investigate the matter. Later the

Bureau received copies of similar letters which the insane man had sent

to President Harding, King George and the Prince of Wales. He mentioned

this as an illustration of what the Veterans’ Bureau has to put up with.

Speaking about coordination and cooperation, he mentioned the fact that

the Public Health Service is represented in the Veterans’ Bureau by Dr.

Guthrie, Dr. Lloyd and Dr. Long, the Navy by Commander Garrison and

Commander Boone, and the Army by Colonel Brooke and Colonel Hutton. In

this way the Bureau benefits by the advice of these men, and friction

between the Departments is avoided.

Another thing he took up was the situation in Arizona. Attempts have

recently been made to get the Bureau to put hospitals in two towns,

Phoenix and Tucson, both of which he stated were so hot that everybody

would have to get out in the summer. There are 431 vacant beds at

Prescott, within 400 miles, and in a few months 422 more will be

available. Transportation has been offered these men to these hospitals

but many have refused to go. He believed that the Veterans’ Bureau could

do more than this, but wanted an expression of opinion on the subject.

MR. BURKE: asked for further discussions on the questions raised by Colonel

Patterson.

DR. KLAUTZ: stated that he would like to ask Col. Patterson whether the

question of furloughs has been taken up in connection with disciplinary

regulations.

COLONEL PATTERSON: informed him that length or frequency of furloughs had

not been determined, but permission to be absent will be obtained from

District Managers under policies issued by the Central Office from time

to time. He asked for an expression of opinion on this subject.

DR. KLAUTZ: stated in regard to the situation in Arizona that probably all

the hospitals available there were situated in an altitude of 5000 ft.

COL. PATTERSON: informed him that Camp Kearny is lower than this. He stated

that the policy of the Veterans’ Bureau in regard to tuberculosis has

the backing of the National Tuberculosis Association, and that the men

asking for hospitalization had been offered transportation to Kearny or

Prescott.

DR. KLAUTZ: offered the suggestion that somewhere in the mountains North of

Tucson there might be places which were not too high and would be good

all the year round.

COL. PATTERSON: reported that there are already at Prescott 131 vacant beds

and within four months will be 432 additional. Why should we go to

additional expense when we have these other hospitals?

DR. LONG: took up the subject of the speeding up of patients in hospitals,

which is necessary for two reasons—first, in the interest of the man

himself, and, second, in the interest of economy. The average man was

about 25 years of age when he entered the service, and it should be

taken into consideration that his character had not been formed, and

that keeping him in a hospital tends to destroy still further his

initiative, so the sooner a man gets out of the hospital the better it

will be for him. As for economy, it costs about $240 a month to keep a

man in a hospital. He stated that dispensaries are now being established

in the district and sub-offices, where treatment can be obtained, thus a

man should be discharged as soon as he has reached the maximum

improvement. He cited the case of Palo Alto, where arrangements had been

made with Dr. Wheate that when a man had reached the maximum hospital

improvement such further treatment as was needed should be obtained in

the out-patient office. In about six weeks the total number of patients

was reduced from 540 to 417.

DR. ELLIOTT: took up the question of furloughs, stating that at the Naval

Hospital in Washington at Christmas time many Veterans’ Bureau patients

asked for leave, and pursuant to advice from the District Manager they

were given the same amount of leave that the other Naval patients

received, from 5 to 10 days.

DR. DEDMAN: spoke on economy. He said he understood a certain rate per diem

was to be established for the care of patients, and wanted to call

attention to several things in this connection. First, the environment.

Some hospitals have central heating plants; others have stoves. He said

that his hospital was an old cantonment hospital, with a unit heating

system which required the employment of about 45 stokers.

Another thing, some hospitals Are a great distance from markets; also,

prices may be higher. All those things make quite a difference in the

average cost of the care of a patient per day.

With regard to General Order 27, he called attention to the clause which

gives the Medical Officer in charge the privilege of giving the man his

transportation back to his home, and mentioned the case of a man who

come to the hospital from Oteen, where he had been discharged for

disciplinary reasons. The hospital could not admit him, but authority

was obtained from the Veterans’ Bureau to admit him for examination,

and, if active, to hospitalize. The man was examined and found to be

inactive. He then complained to the American Legion because they did not

hospitalize him, and he had no way to get home. However, in this

particular case, transportation was later received from the Veterans’

Bureau. General Order 27–A now gives the Medical Officer authority to

pay transportation.

He then asked whether a man who had been discharged for disciplinary

reasons and was very sick should be hospitalized.

COL. PATTERSON: informed him that General Order 27 has ample authority for

emergency cases.

CAPT. BLACKWOOD: expressed his appreciation of the opportunity to attend the

conference, and of the great value it had been.

He mentioned the fact that the word “discipline” carries with a feeling

of dread. Discipline is purely and simply obedience, and when you have

obedience you have discipline. Orders should be issued in such away that

no antagonism will be created. He gave an example: In the Naval Hospital

the patients are all supposed to stand at attention, if able, when the

Commanding Officer comes thru the wards. The Veterans’ Bureau patients

objected most seriously to this, so an order was issued that they should

sit down, and now you couldn’t make them sit down.

He stated that with regard to the question of absence of a patient over

leave for seven days, under G.O. 27 a man can now stay away six days

without any action other than minor punishments, which he said is

absolutely ridiculous. He thought some other form of punishment, should

be devised, as reduction of compensation would not affect many of the

patients who are not receiving compensation, and believed the Commanding

Officer should be allowed to assign these minor punishments. He did not

believe the patient should be discharged, as in that case he would only

go to another hospital.

Another thing he suggested, with reference to medical records, was that

a skeleton record, at least, of the history of a man’s treatment, his

examination and diagnosis, should be made to follow him around from

place to place. This would save a great deal of work and give the

hospital a line on what has been done for the man in the past. He said

patients had been hospitalized anywhere from one to thirty-five times

prior to coming to his hospital, and it was impossible to get a history

of their previous hospitalization.

HON. CHARLES H. BURKE: I happen to be, as some of you may know, at the head

of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

In listening to the discussion this morning by Mr. Madden and by General

Dawes, I have had brought to my notice that there are some things in

connection with hospitalization that compare in some respects with some

of the things I have to come in contact with in connection with the

administration of the affairs of the Indians.

Mr. Madden referred to the politicians and the harm they may do by

criticism and comment and so forth. I don’t think he meant when he said

politicians, the men who may participate in politics. I think he had in

mind these demagogues and agitators and sources of propaganda that are

doing more harm in the Government service,—I know it is true of the

Indian Bureau,—than anything else or everything else all put together;

and I think something of that applies to the hospitalization question.

Agitators, I call them. Some of them are perhaps interested in the

Indians and in their purposes, supersensitive, possibly. Others have

selfish motives that they desire to serve; others are just ordinary

trouble makers.

So, in the Indian Service, one of the things that we are handicapped by

is this aggregation that I have just described, that are criticizing and

finding fault with practically everything that is being done. One of the

things that they contend for more than anything else is that the Federal

Government, in supervising and administering the affairs of the Indians

should, before they put into operation any policy for their uplift and

their advancement, have the consent of the Indians. What an absurd

proposition! When you contemplate sending your boy to some educational

institution, are you going to permit him to dictate and say to you what

you shall do, or, when he selects a certain institution and tries it for

a few weeks, say that he does not like it and is going to try some other

institution? How far would a father get with a son if he permitted him

to dictate and dominate the situation?

So it seems to me that this question of hospitalization and caring for

the ex-service man is very largely a medical question and it ought to be

administered with a view to what will be most productive in

rehabilitating and restoring these men to full health; and so it

occurred to me that before this meeting adjourns, and because possibly

the impression may have been given this morning that the principal

question was one of economy, that we should, just for a moment, consider

this other question of what can be done and what should be done for the

best interests of these ex-service men. It will require regulations; it

will require legislation.

If you have not been repaid in the other sessions of this Conference

until this forenoon, I think every one of you who has come from some

distance will feel that he has been fully compensated in listening to

the discussion by General Dawes and Mr. Madden with reference to what

the Government, under our present Chief Executive, is endeavoring to

accomplish in the matter of administering Government. And so we have

this hospitalization proposition and all of the Departments having to

deal with that subject. We have this Federal Board of Hospitalization

made up of representatives or the heads of these different departments.

Now what I want to ask you gentlemen, and I am talking to you now as

experts, as men who are in the field in charge of hospitals, in a

position to see this Question from every angle,—what can you do now that

will help the situation. This is what I want to bring to your attention:

that is, that each and every one of you, through your proper officers,

communicate freely and from time to time what you believe ought to be

done to strengthen and improve this service; and then, these suggestions

coming from every part of the country and all of those different

institutions and services will be concentrated and ultimately have

consideration by the Federal Board of Hospitalization, and a regulation

will be prepared where needed and necessary legislation will be

suggested to Congress in the interest of better caring for and

administering these different hospitals throughout the United States.

My opinion, gentlemen, is this: that when a man goes into a hospital he

is presumed to be ill and should be governed by such regulations and by

such control as will best enable him to recover from his disability at

the earliest practicable time; and if he ought to have considerable

money and if he ought to be permitted to go his way, let him go; but if,

on the contrary, he should be required to live within certain reasonable

discipline as to his personal conduct, if he should be limited in the

amount of money that he should have to spend as he desires he should be

limited by you, who are expert and who have no possible thing in mind

except the welfare of these men.

Now don’t get the impression that you can get all the legislation that

you think perhaps you ought to have. I am not going to speak of the

Congress as constituted now, because a person in the administrative side

of the Government and in a bureau is not supposed to talk about the

Congress and so I am not going to say anything about the present

Congress; but up to about six years ago and for a period of many years,

I happen to know that there were men in Congress that don’t measure up

to what my friend, Mr. Madden, said a member of Congress ought to be.

There used to be members of Congress who kept their ears very close to

the ground listening constantly for any criticism, for any comment on

any part of the Government service, perhaps through a magazine or

newspaper; and they rose on the floor in their might to denounce some

policy or administrative action on the part of the Government simply

because they lacked the courage of their convictions.

Mr. Madden does not come within that class of members of Congress. He is

a man who has always been known to have the courage of his convictions.

Perhaps the entire body is now made up of that type of members, but such

was not the case up to 1915.

These agitators that I have spoken of, these demagogues, have learned

what you can do with a scared member of Congress, and we used to say

that the thing that emphasized most a scared Congressman was two. We

don’t have them I think any more.

My friends, let us hope that Congress is so constituted at the present

time, and we will assume that it is, that it will courageously and

fearlessly and without any regard as to what the results may be to

themselves, rise up and respond to what you gentlemen, through the heads

of these various Departments and the Federal Board of Hospitalization

may indicate and will enact into law such legislation, and if there are

any in the Congress who may have any fears about the results if they do

so act, I would say to them they have less to fear by keeping courageous

and standing for what is right, regardless of the comment at the time,

or the criticism that may come from certain sources.

Gentlemen, I thank you for the privilege of these few words and I hope

that all of you and each of you will be generous and diligent in

communicating, whenever you have any suggestions to make with reference

to bettering this service, in order that they may have the consideration

of these co-ordinating Departments that were so ably described this

morning by General Dawes. I thank you.

GEN. SAWYER: General Ireland, have you anything to say?

GEN. IRELAND: I don’t believe I have. I think it is time well spent and I

trust that there will be further meetings of this kind.

ADMIRAL STITT: I can only repeat what General Ireland has said. I have

learned a great deal from this Conference and feel sure that everyone

agrees that we should have a similar Conference, possibly every year.

GENERAL CUMMING: I have nothing to say except to express what I know is the

appreciation of everybody here to you as Chairman of the Board for

having inaugurated such a Conference, and, secondly, I think we owe

something to Colonel Forbes as an agent for having brought us all

together.

COL. MATTISON, N.H.D.V.S.: I can voice the sentiments just expressed. I

expected this meeting to be exceedingly valuable and it is vastly more

so than I had ever anticipated. I am very glad indeed to have had this

opportunity.

DR. WHITE: I want to express my personal appreciation for having had the

opportunity of coming into personal contact with all of you men who are

engaged in this work. I have long felt that one of the very great values

of a congregation of this sort is that resulting from personal contact

with men who are doing the same work.

I have listened to all of the discussions. I don’t know what I have

learned, but I feel, as I go back to my desk, that during the coming

year I will, in my various decisions, hark back to something that has

been said here that will help me solve the questions of the day. The

real things that one learns on occasions of this sort it is almost

impossible to formulate in one’s mind at the moment but they are always

brought up and proven valuable day by day. Thank you very much,

gentlemen, for the privilege of meeting you and I am going to ask you to

come out to St. Elizabeths and visit with us.

COL. PATTERSON: I have already occupied a great deal of time and so I can

only voice the sentiments expressed by the previous gentlemen. I know

those of us in the Bureau have learned a great deal and I hope that it

will be possible to let us have the benefit of a similar Conference next

year. We in the Bureau will be in a much better condition to profit by

your suggestions than we are this year and we will know better where we

stand than we do at present. Most of us are rather new to the job and

are in a very receptive mood.

In passing I would like to tell Captain Blackwood that the new order,

G.O. 27, covers most of the things he brought up. Some of the other

suggestions as to the way patients got into hospitals I fear will take

some time to rectify. We are in the hands of our agents in the field.

Many of them are not up to the standard. We hope to rectify that. As far

as the hospital question is concerned, I think you understand that the

Medical Bureau is with you and I hope you will take to heart what

Commissioner Burke has said and give us in writing the benefit of your

opinions and send them in through your chiefs. I hope you will give that

your attention and let us have the benefit of your advice. We want

constructive criticism and we need your help.

GENERAL SAWYER: How many of the Commanders present are accompanied by their

wives. Those that are, please stand. (Six stood up) I want to say

furthermore that the reception at the White House is at 8:30; entrance

by the North Portico. I feel sure that I can predict for you a very

pleasant evening.

In summarizing, just in a few words, I would like to give you something

of an idea of the impressions that have come to me and I believe that

you will agree that they are fair and that you should accept the same

impression for yourself.

First, it has been a great delight to me, personally, to meet you

Commanders of these various hospitals. I have a very much better idea of

the kind of men that are caring for these institutions and wish to say

to you that I am more than pleased with the capacity and the efficiency

that you demonstrate. Your contact here with each other has helped you

very greatly. To me the whole hospital question is visualized in a much

broader way. I thought I had a fair conception of what this proposition

meant, but I must say I have enlarged my horizon very materially. As for

myself I have received an inspiration such as I have never had before to

make of this hospitalization subject a matter for consideration and of

engagement of a much higher type. With the idea of its immensity, with a

better understanding of many of the details and requirements and

difficulties, I myself go forth to the undertakings I have before me as

the Chief Coordinator of this Board with much more determination than

ever before, with an ambition that has never quite possessed me before,

so I feel that I myself have been very greatly benefited.

There are some things you will take back with you out of this crowded

program. As the days come and go you will have the experience of

referring to this Conference as having given you new light and as having

given you an assistance you hardly record today.

It is my own wish that we may be able to put in the hands of each of you

quite extensive minutes of all of these proceedings. If I can bring that

about in the course of a reasonable length of time, you shall be

possessed of such a record.

I wish to thank the speakers for conforming so regularly to the

suggestion as to time limit. I wish to thank you for the care with which

you have prepared your papers and presented them. I wish to thank those

of you who have participated in the discussions. I want to express my

appreciation of those of you who have listened so intently and

apparently with such interest.

I would be unfair to the occasion if I did not express my gratitude for

the assistance that has been given us by the nurses in their association

with us here.

One thing I would have you do. You are but single representatives of the

institutions from which you come.

It would be somewhat selfish if you were to go home and bottle up within

yourselves the experiences that you have had here and the observations

you have made. Now, fellows, let me tell you what to do: Go back to your

various fields. Call in your associates and your assistants, take up

your whole administrative family and try to inject into them a little of

the enthusiasm, a little of the spirit, a little of the determination;

give to them some of the ideas you take away from here.

I want you to go while you are still under the influence of the

inspiration of the occasion, and I want to urge that each of you, as

soon as you get home, take up with your administrative family the

various things that have been discussed here, and try to instill in them

the same renewed earnestness and enthusiasm that you possess this

evening, and convey to them for us, this Board of Hospitalization and

the great President of this United States of America, Warren G. Harding,

the assurance that he appreciates every effort that you are putting

forth.

Coming from a doctor’s family, he realizes more fully than you can

possibly guess the difficulties that are confronting you every day; and

be assured that when you act upon your best judgment that you will find

him standing by whatever you may have regarded as necessary to the

bringing about of the end-results in this war veteran’s case.

Let me emphasize once more that the concern that the Administration has

is not how you may entertain them while they are in the hospital, is not

how easy and sympathetic you may be with them, but it is how you

engender in them a spirit of determination to get back into the world

again as productive citizens. That is your job.

In closing, let me say that at the suggestion of Colonel Patterson and

the Veterans’ Bureau which we are serving, that we are hoping that

somehow before another year shall have passed around that we will have a

real place to which we may invite you to participate in the most

interesting program that could possibly be produced. Fellows, I thank

you for your presence.

COMMANDER BOONE: I am sorry we are not able to raise our glasses to a toast

to the Chief Coordinator and the members of the Federal Board of

Hospitalization. The least we can do is to stand for a rising vote of

appreciation.

All stood up.

The meeting adjourned at 4:45 P.M.

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