answer to this letter only—is a letter which you once wrote to Field
Marshal Milch and which was submitted, I think, by the French
Prosecution as Exhibit RF-675, (Document Number RF-675). In this letter,
Herr Funk, you apologized for participating so very infrequently in the
meetings of the Central Planning Board. And at that time you sent two
experts from your ministry to the session, that is, two experts in the
field of administrating civilian supplies and of the export trade. As
deputy of your State Secretary, Dr. Hayler, who will be called later as
a witness, a certain Ohlendorf participated at this meeting of the
Central Planning Board. You have already seen this man, Ohlendorf, in
this courtroom on the witness stand. I should be interested to know what
were the functions of this man Ohlendorf who apparently belonged to your
ministry.
FUNK: As far as the negotiations of the Central Planning Board were
concerned, I was essentially interested only in the fact that in that
meeting the necessary raw materials were allocated for the
administration of consumer goods and the export trade. For that reason
Ohlendorf and two other experts for the administration of consumer goods
and the export trade were sent to the meeting. Ohlendorf was brought
into my Ministry by State Secretary Hayler. Before that I had only known
Ohlendorf vaguely from one or two meetings and I had had an
extraordinarily favorable impression of him, for he had an extremely
lucid mind and could always express his thoughts in a most impressive
way. Before that time I didn’t even know that Ohlendorf had another
position in the Reich Security Main Office, for he was introduced to me
as a manager of the Main Organization for German Trade. Hayler was the
chief of this organization, of the Reichsgruppe Handel, and Ohlendorf
was his manager and was introduced to me as such. Therefore I had no
objections to Ohlendorf being brought into the ministry and taking over
that field which corresponded to his private business activities up to
now—the province of administration of consumer goods.
Then through Hayler I discovered that Ohlendorf was active also in the
RSHA—or whatever the name is—as an office chief in the SD. However, I
took no exception to this activity, for I was not fully acquainted with
these assignments and in any case I was not convinced that anything was
taking place which was unacceptable for the Ministry. Ohlendorf was
active chiefly as manager of the Reichsgruppe Handel. As far as I know,
he only had an auxiliary occupation in the RSHA, or however it was
called. Naturally I was very much affected and painfully surprised when
I heard here about assignments which Ohlendorf with his “Einsatzstab”
had had in previous years in Russia. I had never heard one word about
this activity of Ohlendorf. He himself never mentioned these things to
me and until this time I did not know the type of assignments such
“Einsatzstäbe” had.
Ohlendorf never talked about his activity in the SD. Hayler, who knew
him much better and more intimately than I did, is better qualified to
give information. In any event I knew nothing of this activity of
Ohlendorf, which after all he had carried on in years prior to this
date, and I was very much affected to find that this man had done such
things.
DR. SAUTER: Witness, I must ask you to state your position in regard to
the testimony given by another witness, whom we have seen and heard in
this courtroom. This witness is Dr. Blaha, who made a report in this
courtroom about the conditions in the concentration camp at Dachau and
who testified—as you probably will recall—that in and around Dachau it
was common talk that the Reich Minister of Economics, Dr. Funk, had also
been present at one of these official visits to the camp. As you recall,
this witness replied to my question that he himself had not seen you,
but that your name had been mentioned in this connection by other
inmates. Were you ever at Dachau or at any other concentration camp?
FUNK: No, I was neither at Dachau nor in any other concentration camp.
DR. SAUTER: Can you say that with a clear conscience under your oath?
FUNK: Yes.
DR. SAUTER: The witness, Dr. Blaha, has also testified to the fact that
this inspection of Dachau took place following a discussion among the
finance ministers which had taken place at Berchtesgaden or Reichenhall,
or somewhere in that vicinity. Therefore I ask you: Did you ever
participate in a meeting of finance ministers, or at least at the time
Blaha claims?
FUNK: No, I never participated in a meeting of finance ministers,
because I myself was never such a minister. And at that time I did not
participate in any international discussions at all. No.
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Funk, as far as your health is concerned, this is not a
good day for you. You have complained about the bad pains which you are
suffering today. Consequently, I do not wish to put any further
questions to you, except one in conclusion, which I am sure you will be
able to answer briefly.
Why did you remain in your office as Reich Minister of Economics and as
President of the Reichsbank until the very end?
FUNK: I considered myself bound to remain in this position as long as I
could, in order to serve and be of use to my people. It was precisely
during the last few years of the war that my position was a very
difficult one. The administration became greatly disorganized and I had
to make exceptional efforts in order to procure supplies for the people,
especially those who had been bombed out. I continually had to protect
the supplies and supply depots from arbitrary seizures by the Gauleiter.
In the case of one Gauleiter, I had to call the police. I did not follow
the “scorched earth” policy which the Führer had decreed, so that even
after occupation by the enemy powers the supplies which were left could
be used by the German people.
I had had instructions from the Führer to issue a decree according to
which the acceptance of allied invasion currency would be high treason
and punishable by death. I did not issue that decree. I made every
effort to prevent State property and State money from being destroyed
and wasted. I saved the gold deposits and foreign exchange deposits of
the Reichsbank which were in the greatest danger. Briefly, until the
last minute I believed it was my duty and responsibility to carry on in
office and to hold out until the very end. Especially when we Germans
learned that, according to the Morgenthau Plan, the status of the German
people was to be degraded into that of shepherds and goatherds; that the
entire industry would be destroyed, which would have meant the
extermination of 30 million Germans. And especially after Churchill had
declared personally that the German people would suffer from hunger and
that epidemics would break out, only one thing was possible for me and
for every decent German, and that was to remain at his post and do
everything within his power in order to prevent this chaos.
I had no talent for being a traitor or a conspirator, but I always loved
my fatherland passionately and my people as well, and up to the end I
tried to do everything possible to serve my country and my people and to
be of use to them.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, perhaps in connection with this alleged visit
to a concentration camp I might refer to a questionnaire which we
received from the witness Dr. Schwedler, and which is found in the
supplementary volume for the Funk case as Document Number 14. This
affidavit, of the contents of which I would like to have you take
official notice, essentially confirms that, since 1 February 1938, the
witness Dr. Schwedler was the daily companion of the Defendant Funk;
that Dr. Funk never visited a concentration camp; and that the witness
would have to know of it if it were the case.
With these words, Mr. President, I conclude my examination of the
Defendant Funk. I thank you very much.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of Defendants’ Counsel wish to ask questions?
Dr. Sauter, you said you were referring to an affidavit of Dr.
Schwedler? Which was Number 14? You said you were referring to Dr.
Schwedler’s affidavit which you said was Number 14 in your supplementary
book. It does not seem to be in ours.
DR. SAUTER: I beg your pardon, Mr. President, it is Number 13. I made a
mistake. It is Number 13; in the supplementary volume, Number 13, Dr.
August Schwedler. It is a questionnaire.
DR. OTTO NELTE (Counsel for Defendant Keitel): Witness, I have one
question which I would like to put to you. The Prosecution has accused
the Defendant Keitel as chief of the OKW, you as Plenipotentiary for the
Economy and Minister Frick as Plenipotentiary for Administration, on a
common ground. The men in these three offices are mentioned in the Reich
Defense Law of 1938. Undoubtedly, they probably exerted certain
functions which might be of significance. The Prosecution in this
connection spoke of a Three Man College and attributed much authority
and significance to this Three Man College in connection with the point
the Prosecution is making of the planning and preparation of aggressive
wars.
Now I ask you: Was there such a Three Man College and what were the
functions of these three offices which have been mentioned, according to
the Reich Defense Law?
FUNK: Due to the confusion reigning in the German administration we
ourselves could scarcely keep things straight; so it is not surprising
if the Prosecution is in error on this point. I myself never heard of
this three-man committee or Three Man College until this proceeding. I
did not know that I belonged to such a three-man committee or Three Man
College or triumvirate or anything else. On the basis of the Reich
Defense Law similar powers were given to the Chief of the OKW, to the
Plenipotentiary for Administration and to the Plenipotentiary for
Economics. These three, in deviation from the existing laws, could issue
directives in which they had mutually to participate.
But it was the purport of this order that these directives could only be
of a subordinate nature, which on the whole applied solely to the sphere
of activity of the offices involved. Legislation for more important
matters was made either by the Ministerial Council for Defense of the
Reich—later only by way of circulating the bill from one minister to
the other—or by Führer decrees. As far as I know there were only three,
four, or five meetings of this body. Later, the decrees of the Führer
were the real, the essential way of issuing laws. They were issued by
the Führer personally, and the offices involved were frequently only
informed of the same. Therefore the three-man committee is only a
fiction.
DR. NELTE: Thank you. I have no further questions.
DR. DIX: Dr. Funk, you spoke of the law for the regulation of national
labor and you said that that law was issued under your predecessor. You
spoke about “my predecessor.”
FUNK: No, you are wrong; I said “predecessors.”
DR. DIX: Predecessors. Can you tell the Tribunal under which Reich
Minister of Economics that was issued?
FUNK: This law was issued under Reich Minister of Economics Dr. Schmitt,
as far as I remember. And the subsequent agreement with the German Labor
Front probably took place in part under Schacht. I particularly remember
the so-called Leipzig Resolutions.
DR. DIX: Then you also mentioned that there was an office subordinate to
Schacht as Plenipotentiary for War Economy. You will remember that the
witness Vocke denied the existence of such an office of Schacht’s as
Plenipotentiary of War Economy, and Schacht did the same thing. Which
office did you mean? Describe the office that you mean.
FUNK: It was not an office in the sense in which it might have been
interpreted here. It was a committee of experts of the various
departments which was led by the representative of the Plenipotentiary
for War Economy, who was Schacht, and later by my representative as
Plenipotentiary for War Economy. Under Schacht’s term of office it was
State Counsellor Wohlthat and in my term of office it was Schacht’s
former State Secretary, Posse.
DR. DIX: Certainly. Now is it identical with the working committee which
originated on the basis of the old Reich Defense Law and which existed
before 1933?
FUNK: I am not familiar with that.
DR. DIX: In any event, this working committee was composed of the
various departments?
FUNK: Yes.
DR. DIX: Together with the OKW?
FUNK: With the OKW, with the Ministry of the Interior, and later, with
the decisive participation of the Four Year Plan representative.
DR. DIX: And the expert for Schacht during Schacht’s term was Dr.
Wohlthat?
FUNK: As far as I know, yes.
DR. DIX: Then one more question. You talked about the so-called
triumvirate with reference to a question by my colleague for the
Defendant Keitel. The creation of the triumvirate, this activity which
you have described, was after Schacht’s time, I believe.
FUNK: Yes, I believe so. But there was no activity.
DR. DIX: No.
FUNK: I never participated in any session of the so-called Three Man
College.
DR. DIX: No. You said it was a fiction.
FUNK: Furthermore, no meeting of these three men ever took place.
DR. DIX: No; you said it was a fiction.
DR. ROBERT SERVATIUS (Counsel for Defendant Sauckel): I have a question
regarding the wages of the foreign workers. Did Sauckel make any special
efforts in connection with the transfer of the wages? Do you know
anything about that?
FUNK: Yes. Sauckel insisted very frequently at the Reichsbank and the
Reich Ministry for Economics that there should be a large-scale transfer
of wages to foreign countries and the occupied territories. Naturally we
were in a very difficult position here, because especially in the
southeastern European countries the currencies had been greatly
devaluated, and the purchasing power of German money had sunk
considerably, whereas I maintained the stable rate of exchange so that
the inflationary tendencies in these countries would not be strengthened
and result in complete economic chaos through the fault of the currency
control. Therefore we had to make additions to the payments to make up
somewhat for the devaluation of the money in the occupied and other
countries. Altogether, considerable sums were transferred. I would
estimate these sums to be at least 2,000 million Reichsmark.
DR. SERVATIUS: Do you know whether Sauckel tried to do something about
the clothing for foreign workers? Was anything done?
FUNK: He made considerable efforts, and this was particularly hard on
the Ministry of Economics, because with the small amount of raw
materials which the Central Planning Board had made available this
Ministry had to take care of the population, and through the ever
growing number of people bombed out we received ever greater demands for
supplies. Yet, in spite of that, we tried to comply with the demands of
Sauckel as far as possible, but of course we could not do so entirely.
DR. SERVATIUS: To what extent was clothing material delivered? Can you
give any figures?
FUNK: No, I cannot.
DR. SERVATIUS: Do you know anything about Sauckel’s attitude towards
Himmler, since, according to the Prosecution, he collaborated with him?
FUNK: I remember one particular incident. When I had fled to Thuringia
with my gold reserve and the rest of my foreign exchange I called on
Sauckel one evening; State Secretary Keppler, who has been mentioned
here frequently, was also present.
In the course of the conversation Sauckel and Keppler got into a
terrific dispute with Himmler. Sauckel told Himmler quite plainly that
he had destroyed the administrative unity in Germany; that he was mainly
responsible for the disorganization of the German administration, for
through the SS he had created a state within a state. Sauckel said
further, “How can the people keep discipline if the top men of the Reich
themselves cannot keep discipline?”
DR. SERVATIUS: I have no further questions.
DR. EGON KUBUSCHOK (Counsel for the Defendant Von Papen): Is it true
that after Von Papen’s speech at Marburg in June 1934 Hitler asked you
to go to Reich President Von Hindenburg at his country estate in Neudeck
and to tell him the following:
Vice Chancellor Von Papen, because he was forbidden to make his speech
public, had asked to be allowed to resign. This resignation would have
to be granted, because Von Papen through his speech at Marburg was
guilty of a severe breach of Reich Cabinet discipline.
FUNK: When Reich President Von Hindenburg was at his estate at Neudeck
he frequently invited me to visit him. I have already mentioned that I
associated with him on familiar terms. A visit like this took place when
the matter of the Von Papen speech at Marburg arose, and the Reich
Marshal suggested to the Führer, as far as I recall, to have me inform
the Reich President about this incident. The Führer had me do this, and
I told the Reich President that a conflict had arisen between the Führer
and Von Papen because of a certain speech. I did not know the contents
of this speech, since in the meantime its publication had been
forbidden. Then the Reich President simply replied, “If he does not
maintain discipline, then he must be prepared to take the consequences.”
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Thank you.
DR. HEINZ FRITZ (Counsel for Defendant Fritzsche): Witness, when and
where did you meet your Codefendant Fritzsche?
FUNK: When he was active in the press section of the Propaganda
Ministry. One day he appeared before me and wanted money for
“Transocean,” and I granted him this money.
DR. FRITZ: You were State Secretary in the Propaganda Ministry at that
time?
FUNK: Yes.
DR. FRITZ: That was in what year?
FUNK: That must have been in 1933 or 1934.
DR. FRITZ: When he came to you, did you know what position Fritzsche had
in the Propaganda Ministry at that time?
FUNK: I knew that he was in the press section.
DR. FRITZ: Was this a leading position which he had? Was he perhaps head
of a department?
FUNK: No. At that time the head of this department was Dr. Hahnke as far
as I remember. Later it was Berndt.
DR. FRITZ: Could you observe whether Fritzsche was in any close contact
with Dr. Goebbels?
FUNK: I was never called in to attend any of the discussions which Dr.
Goebbels had daily with his experts. That was done through his personal
assistant, Dr. Hahnke who later became State Secretary. But since
Fritzsche was not the head of a department I assume that he was not
called in to these discussions either. As far as I know mostly the heads
of departments were called to these discussions, but certainly not
Fritzsche.
DR. FRITZ: Then according to your knowledge, in your capacity as State
Secretary at that time, he was not one of the closer collaborators of
Dr. Goebbels, if I understood you correctly.
FUNK: At that time I do not believe so. Of course, I do not know what
took place later.
THE PRESIDENT: The Prosecution?
MR. DODD: Witness, can you hear me?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: We have listened to your testimony since late Friday
afternoon, and, as we understand it from your statements, you admit none
of the charges made against you in the Indictment in any degree, with
possibly one exception; I am not clear as to whether or not you were
making an admission this morning with respect to your part in the
persecution of the Jews. Would you tell us now whether or not you
intended to admit your own guilt or the part that you played in the
persecution of the Jews?
FUNK: I said this morning that I had a deep sense of guilt and a deep
sense of shame about the things which were done to the Jews in Germany,
and that at the time when the terror and violence began I was involved
in a strong conflict with my conscience. I felt, I could almost say,
that a great injustice was being done. However, I did not feel guilty in
respect to the Indictment against me here, that is, that according to
the Indictment I was guilty of Crimes against Humanity because I signed
the directives for carrying out laws which had been issued by superior
offices—laws that had to be made so that the Jews would not be entirely
deprived of their rights, and so that they would be given some legal
protection at least in regard to compensation and settlement. I am
admitting a guilt against myself, a moral guilt, but not a guilt because
I signed the directives for carrying out the laws; in any event not a
guilt against humanity.
MR. DODD: All right. That’s what I wanted to thoroughly understand. You
also told the Tribunal, that you—I think you used the expression “often
at the door but never let in,” and I understand that to mean that in
your own judgment you were really a little man in this Nazi
organization. Is that so?
FUNK: Yes...
MR. DODD: All right. That’s an answer. You might want to explain it
later, but for the present purposes that will do.
FUNK: May I give an explanation to this. I wanted to state that in the
position I held, there were always higher authorities which made the
final decision. That was the case in all the positions I held in the
State.
MR. DODD: Well, let’s both examine some of the evidence, and see whether
or not you were in fact always subordinated and always a little man who
didn’t get in.
First of all, there’s one matter that I do want to clear up before going
into the general examination. You recall when the Defendant Schacht was
on the stand, he told the Tribunal that after he left the Reichsbank he
had an office in his apartment, is that so?
FUNK: Yes, he said that.
MR. DODD: Now of course you have told us, on another occasion, that he
continued to have an office in the Reichsbank. Isn’t that so?
FUNK: I don’t know whether I said and where I said that, but it may be
so. I was informed, at the time when he resigned, that he still went to
the Reichsbank rather frequently, and that a room was reserved there for
him. In addition he still had some personnel, a secretary whom he had
taken with him from the Reichsbank—and that is all I know.
MR. DODD: Another question. You told us, on another occasion, that he
had an office in the Reichsbank where he worked on certain bank data and
where he still kept in touch with you every now and then. Isn’t that so?
Do you remember telling us that or not?
FUNK: No, it wasn’t like that. Schacht seldom...
MR. DODD: If you don’t remember, then I perhaps can help you a little
bit. Do you remember being interrogated by Major Hiram Gans of the
United States Army on June 2, 3, and 4 of 1945? Do you remember that?
You know who was there—Göring was there, Von Krosigk was there, Lammers
was there....
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right. You were asked this question, weren’t you, or
rather, preceding this answer there were some questions?
Question: “Did Schacht retain any governmental position after his
dismissal as President of the Reichsbank?” Then Göring put in an answer:
“Reich Minister.” Then another question: “Did he have any functions?”
Göring again answered: “He remained Minister without Portfolio.” Then
another question: “Were there any Cabinet meetings he attended?” Göring
answered again: “There were no Cabinet meetings at that time.” Question:
“Then it was purely honorary?” Göring said: “Practically.”
Then you interposed with this statement (Funk is speaking): “Schacht,
after his dismissal, kept an office in the Reichsbank, where he worked
on statistical data of the Reichsbank and where he still kept in touch
with me every now and then.” Question: “How long did this last?” Answer:
“This lasted until Schacht’s dismissal as Minister, probably in 1943.”
You made those answers, that answer, did you not?
FUNK: That is not correct. I did not express myself that way. I said
only that I had been informed that he came to the Reichsbank frequently,
that there was a room reserved for him and that he very seldom spoke to
me. He seldom called on me. That was not translated correctly.
MR. DODD: You know what I am reading from, do you not? You know this
Document, Number 2828-PS?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Parts of this are already in evidence as Exhibit USA-654. And
later, in another form, I shall submit this part which I have just read.
Counsel Sauter, for you, this morning referred to a letter which you had
written to Hitler, I believe it was in 1939, a very fulsome letter which
you said was somewhat due to the general feeling at the time and also to
the fact that it was about your 50th birthday. Is that so? There was
another reason for your writing that letter in connection with your
birthday, wasn’t there? Do you know to what I refer?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: You received 520,000 Reichsmark from Hitler as a birthday
present?
FUNK: No, that is not correct.
MR. DODD: Didn’t you receive a present from Göring and Goebbels...
FUNK: Yes...
MR. DODD: Wait a minute till I get through—you don’t seem to
remember—you received a present from Göring and Goebbels in the first
instance which had been made up of 250,000 Reichsmark from leading
businessmen in Germany and 270,000 Reichsmark which came out of special
accounts maintained by Göring and Goebbels. Then Hitler heard about that
and ordered you to return that money because of the fact that some of it
came from industry, and he himself gave you a so-called donation to the
sum of 520,000 Reichsmark, isn’t that so?
FUNK: The first is not correct, but the latter is correct. But may I
explain the details; they are of a completely different nature.
MR. DODD: Go ahead.
FUNK: On my fiftieth birthday the President and Directorate of the Reich
Chamber of Economics, the chief organization of the entire German
economy, called on me and declared that because of my more than 20 years
of service to German economy they wanted, with the approval of the
Führer, to make me a gift of an estate in Bavaria. That was a doubtful
present, for later I had much worry and trouble because of it. A large
house was built there because, as I was told, the Führer had said that
he also wanted me to work there. The taxes were so high, however, that I
could not pay them, nor the remaining construction costs, either.
Thereupon I did not appeal to Göring, but Göring heard about it and had
300,000 Reichsmark given to me in order to help me out of my financial
straits. I did not receive any money from Goebbels, but with the
approval of Goebbels the film corporation joined the Chamber of
Economics in giving me this money. When the Führer heard of the
difficulties I had in paying taxes and making other payments he put a
sum of 500,000 Reichsmark at my disposal. With the other money I
received I made two donations, one of 500,000 Reichsmark to the
Reichsbank for the families of the members of the Reichsbank killed
during the war and another of 200,000 Reichsmark to the Reich Ministry
of Economics for the families of members of that office who died in the
war. I was able to live in, and pay for the upkeep of, this large house
and grounds only because I had a relatively large income. However, from
the beginning, when I saw the tremendous costs and expenses connected
with it particularly in taxes, _et cetera_, I decided, in agreement with
my wife, that after my death this estate should again be donated either
to the Reichsbank or to my East Prussian homeland. I also discussed this
several times with the Reichsbank Directorate.
MR. DODD: I am not much concerned with what you did with it, I only want
to know if you got it. And you got it, didn’t you? You got 520,000
Reichsmark.
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: You also made a present out of public funds on your own
account to the Defendant Frick on one occasion, didn’t you? Didn’t you
give Frick a birthday present of 250,000 Reichsmark on 12 March 1942?
FUNK: That I don’t know.
MR. DODD: You don’t remember? You don’t remember that? Do you know
anything about the other gifts that were given to any of these other
defendants out of public funds, either through your position as
President of the Reichsbank or as an important functionary of the Nazi
Party? Do you know anything about these other men and what they have got
from the public treasury?
FUNK: These moneys were not given by me. They were given from the fund
of the Führer by Lammers. I did not dispense such moneys.
MR. DODD: They were public funds, were they not? They did not come from
anywhere else except the public? You don’t know then that Rosenberg got
250,000 Reichsmark? Did you know that?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: In January 1944; you were then President of the Reichsbank?
FUNK: Yes, but these moneys never came from the Reichsbank. These were
moneys from funds which were administered by Lammers and I assume that
the moneys came from the Adolf Hitler donation or from other funds. But
the Reichsbank had nothing to do with these funds.
MR. DODD: Do you know that Von Neurath got 250,000 Reichsmark on 2
February 1943? Do you know anything about that? You were the President
of the Reichsbank then.
FUNK: I know nothing about that.
MR. DODD: You heard about Lammers and his 600,000 Reichsmark. You know
that Keitel got 250,000 Reichsmark on 22 September 1942. You never heard
about that?
FUNK: The Reichsbank had nothing at all to do with these things.
MR. DODD: You know that Von Ribbentrop got 500,000 Reichsmark on 30
April 1943. You never heard of that? General Milch got 500,000
Reichsmark in 1941; none of these things ever came to your attention?
FUNK: I never had anything to do with these matters. They were Lammers’
concern and the money did not come from the Reichsbank.
MR. DODD: Now, I understood you to say that you were not the economic
advisor in fact to Hitler or to the Nazi Party of the early days. That
is in your own judgment you were not. It is a fact, however, that you
were generally regarded as such by the public, by industrialists, by
Party members and the high Party officials. Is that not so?
FUNK: I was called that, as I said here, on the basis of my activity in
1932. I acted as a mediator in conversations between the Führer and some
leading economists and for a short while carried out the activity in the
Party which has been described here.
MR. DODD: You have called yourself the economic advisor on occasion,
have you not? At least on one occasion, during an interrogation, did you
not refer to yourself as the economic advisor for the Party? You
remember that?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: I think you will agree that you were generally recognized as
such, but the really important thing is that the public thought you
were.
FUNK: I have testified here that I was called that by the press and from
the press this designation apparently went into record. I did not use
this term myself.
MR. DODD: Were you the principal contact man between the Nazi Party and
industry in the very early days?
FUNK: In 1932, and this is the only year which we need consider in
connection with Party activities on my part, because I was not active in
the Party before or after this year. I did arrange discussions between
Hitler and leading men of industry, whom I can name. But other men also
acted in that capacity; for example, State Secretary Keppler.
MR. DODD: I am not asking you about other men, I am asking you whether
or not you were not a principal contact man. Actually you were
encouraged by industry, were you not, to become active in the Party?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: You acted as a go-between for the Nazis and the big business
in Germany.
FUNK: It did not take up much time, but I did it.
MR. DODD: Whether it took much of your time or not, that doesn’t
interest us. It took a little bit of your time. That’s what you were
doing?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: You remember Document Number EC-440 perhaps. It is really a
statement that you made and prepared on the relationship of German
industry to the Party in the National Socialist leadership of the State.
You remember that paper you drew up on 28 June 1945? You may recall that
you yourself said, “Keppler, who later became State Secretary, and who
served as economic advisor to the Führer before me....” You used that
terminology. You recall that?
FUNK: Keppler?
MR. DODD: Yes, he was the advisor before you. You remember that?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Now, in the Propaganda Ministry, if I understand you
correctly, you want the Tribunal to believe that you were something of
an administrative functionary and not a very important man, and you did
not really know what was going on. Is that your position?
FUNK: No. I had quite a large task, and that was the direction of an
extensive cultural and economic concern. I stated that here. It
consisted of film companies, theaters, orchestras, the German Trade
Publicity Council, and the administration of the entire German radio, an
undertaking worth a hundred millions, that is to say, a very extensive
activity, an organizational, economic and financial activity. But
propaganda was taken care of solely and exclusively by Goebbels.
MR. DODD: Yes. You knew the policies and the purposes of the Propaganda
Ministry; there isn’t any doubt about that?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: You knew that, did you not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right. Now, we can pass on to one other matter that I
referred to earlier, to clear up another matter. Do you recall that the
Defendant Schacht, when he was on the stand, said, I believe, at that
now famous meeting where a number of industrialists were gathered to
greet Hitler, that he did not take up the collection? Schacht said he
did not do it. I think he said that Göring did it or somebody else. Do
you remember that testimony about Schacht on the stand? You remember
being interrogated about that subject yourself?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Do you remember what you told us at the time?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: What did you tell us?
FUNK: I said that Schacht after addresses by Göring and Hitler made a
brief speech, and that he asked those present to, so to say, go to the
cashier and subscribe, that is, raise money for the election fund. He
took over the collection and said that the coal industry...
MR. DODD: Who?
FUNK: He said...
MR. DODD: Who was the one who took up the collection? I don’t understand
whom you mean by “he.”
FUNK: Schacht.
MR. DODD: That’s all I wanted to know about that. When did you first
learn that the uprisings of November 1938 were not spontaneous?
FUNK: On the morning of 9 November, on my way from my home to the
Ministry, I saw for the first time what had taken place during the
night. Before that I had not had the slightest hint that such excesses
and terror measures had been planned.
MR. DODD: I think you misunderstood me. I did not ask you when you first
came to know about the uprisings; I asked you when you first learned
that they were not spontaneous; when you first learned that they were
instigated and planned by somebody else.
FUNK: I only found out about that later.
MR. DODD: Well, how much later?
FUNK: I believe very much later. Later on there was much discussion
about this matter and it was never clear just who had been the
instigator of these measures of terror and violence and where the order
had originated. We knew that it had come from Munich. We had learned
that in the meantime on 9 November; but, whether it was Goebbels or
Himmler, and to what extent the Führer himself participated in this
measure, I was never able to find out clearly. From my telephone
conversation with Goebbels, which I mentioned today, one thing was
clear: The Führer must have known about this matter, for he told me that
the Führer had decreed, and Göring also said this, that the Jews were
completely to be eliminated from economic life. From this I had to
conclude that the Führer himself knew about this matter.
MR. DODD: Now from that telephone conversation we can also see one other
thing. You knew that Goebbels had started this business, did you not,
and that was the day after it happened? You knew it was not spontaneous
and that is why you called up Goebbels and got after him; is that not
so?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: How many days later did you make that inflammatory speech
about what should be done to the Jews? About six days afterwards, did
you not? I am referring to the one that was published in the
_Frankfurter Zeitung_; your counsel referred to it this morning.
FUNK: Yes, to begin with...
MR. DODD: And in that speech you tried to make it appear to the public
that that was a spontaneous uprising, did you not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: That was not true, was it?
FUNK: I did not know that at the time. At that time I still believed
that it was really something favored by large elements of the
population. Very much later I found out that routine machinery had been
put in motion.
MR. DODD: Are you telling this Tribunal now that on the morning of your
telephone call to Goebbels, when you in effect blamed him for these
uprisings, you were not well aware then that he had started it? Is that
your position?
FUNK: At that time I did not know who had started this regime of terror
and how it had been carried through; that was entirely new to me.
MR. DODD: If you did not know who started it, you knew that somebody
started it and that it was not spontaneous?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: And still in your speech of 15 November you tried to make it
appear to the public that it was just an uprising on the part of the
German people, did you not?
FUNK: I based that on the attempted assassination of—I do not know who
he was; some attaché in Paris—and actually the attempt caused much
agitation. There is no doubt of it.
MR. DODD: Now I think you understand my question, Witness. You said on
that occasion, you used these words: “The fact that the last violent
explosion of the indignation of the German people because of a criminal
Jewish attack against the German people took place,” and so on, and you
went on. You were trying to make it appear there that this was a
spontaneous reaction of the German people, and I insist that you knew
better and had known it for some days, had you not?
FUNK: But I did not know that that is what took place. I admit that I
knew that an impulse had come from some office or other.
MR. DODD: Well, all right. When did you coin the expression “crystal
week”? Do you know what that expression is; where it came from?
FUNK: “Crystal week?”
MR. DODD: Yes.
FUNK: Yes, I did use these words once in connection with this action.
MR. DODD: You coined the phrase.
FUNK: Because much was shattered.
MR. DODD: You are the fellow who started that expression. You are the
man, are you not? that was your expression?
FUNK: Yes, I used it.
MR. DODD: And you were using it—because you made this _Frankfurter
Zeitung_ speech?
FUNK: I once characterized that action with that term, it is true,
because much had been shattered.
MR. DODD: Now, let us move on a little bit to the well-known meeting of
12 November, when Göring and Goebbels and all of the other people made
their remarks about the Jews and you said you were present. You did not
make any objection that day to anything that was said, did you?
FUNK: No. I merely attempted to have certain things put through in order
to save something for the Jews, for example, their securities and
stocks. Then I managed to have the stores reopened, so that things would
move less rapidly, and I did more, too.
MR. DODD: I understand that, but I thought this morning you were really
pretty sensitive about the terrible things that had happened to the
Jews, and you remember some of the suggestions that were made that day
by Göring and Goebbels; they were pretty nasty things, were they not?
FUNK: Yes, I openly admitted that I was much shaken...
MR. DODD: Were you? Well...
FUNK: And that my conscience bothered me.
MR. DODD: All right. You went on after that and made your _Frankfurter
Zeitung_ speech and you carried out these decrees, even though your
conscience was bothering you; is that so?
FUNK: But the decrees had to be issued. I have already emphasized that
several times here. I had no pangs of conscience because the decrees
were issued. I had pangs of conscience because of the reasons for them.
But the decrees themselves—
MR. DODD: That is what I’m asking you about.
FUNK: But the decrees had to be issued. The reasons for them—yes; I
admit that.
MR. DODD: You know Schacht said on the stand that if he had been the
Minister of Economy he did not think those things would have happened?
Do you remember him saying that here the other day, do you?
FUNK: Yes. He must have had very powerful and influential connections in
the Party, otherwise he could not have been successful.
MR. DODD: You did not have these connections in the Party, did you? You
were not in the Party, you were a Minister?
FUNK: No, I did not have these connections and I could not prevent these
terror actions.
MR. DODD: Well, we will see about that. Your counsel has submitted on
your behalf an affidavit from one Oeser, O-e-s-e-r; do you remember that
man? O-e-s-e-r, do you remember him?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Do you remember him?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: And his affidavit—interrogatory, I believe it was...
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, we will adjourn for a bare 10 minutes.
[_A recess was taken._]
MR. DODD: Witness, I was inquiring about this man Oeser when we
recessed—O-e-s-e-r; do you recall him? He was one of your employees in
the _Frankfurter Zeitung_, was he not?
FUNK: Yes, he was the chief of the Berlin administration office of the
_Frankfurter Zeitung_, a respected journalist.
MR. DODD: Yes. You know, do you not, that you have an interrogatory or
an affidavit from him, which you are submitting to this court; it is in
your document book?
FUNK: He volunteered to do that.
MR. DODD: Well, I’m not asking you—that is all right—whether he did or
not; I just wanted to establish that you know that he did.
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Now, in that affidavit, as I read it, Oeser maintains that you
were really being quite decent about the Jews in that newspaper. Is that
not so? Is that not the sense of it; that you saved them from dismissal
and so on, you put them under the exceptions provided in the decrees?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right.
FUNK: I allowed quite a number of editors to come under these
exceptions.
MR. DODD: Yes, I know. Now I want to ask you this: There was a real
reason, other than decency towards Jews, for your conduct with reference
to that particular paper, was there not?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Well, now, wait a minute.
FUNK: I do not know these people personally.
MR. DODD: I do not say that you knew the people personally. I say that
there was a reason, other than your feeling for Jews as people, but
which you have not told the Tribunal about yet, another reason maybe.
FUNK: In the case of the editors of the _Frankfurter Zeitung_?
MR. DODD: Yes.
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Now, is it not a fact that you and probably Hitler, and
certainly Goebbels, and some of the other higher-ups of the Nazi Party,
decided that that paper should be left in _status quo_ because of its
vast influence abroad? Is that not true?
FUNK: We did not talk about that at that time. That issue came up later.
It came when the Führer demanded that almost all leading daily
newspapers should either be taken over by the Party or merged with Party
papers. And on that occasion I succeeded in having exception made for
the _Frankfurter Zeitung_, and the _Frankfurter Zeitung_ continued to
exist for a long time. But that was much later. Here, in fact, the only
reason was to help a few Jewish editors.
MR. DODD: Well...
FUNK: It was a purely humane reason.
MR. DODD: You can answer this. I just wanted to get your answer on the
record because I’ll have more to say about it later. Do I understand you
to deny that it was your established policy to preserve the _status quo_
of the _Frankfurter Zeitung_ because of its influence abroad?
FUNK: No, it was always my opinion that the _Frankfurter Zeitung_ should
remain as it was.
MR. DODD: Well, was it for the reason that I suggest, because these
people were well known in the financial world abroad, and you did not
want to impair the usefulness of that paper abroad? That’s what I’m
getting at, and I say that that is why you kept them on, and not because
you felt badly about their plight as Jews.
FUNK: No, not in this case. In this case that was not the reason.
MR. DODD: Very well; now, with respect to your activities as the
Plenipotentiary for Economy and their relationship to the wars waged
against Poland and the other powers, I have some questions that I would
like to ask you. Now I will tell you what it is about first, so you will
be aware. You are not maintaining, are you, that your position as
Plenipotentiary for Economy did not have much to do with the affairs of
the Wehrmacht?
FUNK: Yes, I assert that. With the Wehrmacht...
MR. DODD: Now, I have in my hand here a letter which Von Blomberg wrote
to Göring. Do you remember that letter? It is a new document and you
have not seen it in this Trial, but do you remember any such letter?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Well, I ask you to be handed Document Number EC-255.
[_The document was handed to the defendant._] Mr. President, this
becomes Exhibit USA-839.
[_Turning to the defendant._] Now, in this letter from Von Blomberg, I
am only concerned now with the last sentence, really. You will notice
that Von Blomberg, in this letter, refers to the fact that Schacht had
been appointed, but the last sentence says, or in the next to the last
paragraph he first urges that you be appointed immediately, and that is
underlined in his letter; and in the last paragraph he says:
“The urgency of unified further work on all preparations for the
conduct of the war does not admit of this office being paralyzed
until 15 January 1938.”
This letter, by the way, was written on 29 November 1937. Certainly Von
Blomberg thought that the job that he was suggesting you for would have
some very great effect upon the conduct of the war, did he not?
FUNK: That may be, but in the first place, I do not know about that
letter and, secondly, I was not immediately appointed Plenipotentiary
for Economy but only in the course of 1938. Quite some time after I had
been appointed Minister for Economics I asked Lammers why my appointment
as Plenipotentiary for Economy had taken so long; he replied that my
relationship to the Delegate for the Four Year Plan had to be cleared up
first. That was the reason why several months passed before I became
Plenipotentiary for Economy, because it had to be ascertained that
Göring had the decisive authority for war economy...
MR. DODD: You really do not need to go into all that.
FUNK: I do not know about that letter, and I have never spoken to Von
Blomberg about the affair.
MR. DODD: All right. You do recall perhaps that the OKW, after you were
appointed, made some objection about the amount of authority that you
had. Do you remember that?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Now, I am holding here another new document, Number EC-270,
which I will ask that you be shown, which will become Exhibit USA-840.
While you are waiting for it, I will tell you that it is a letter
written on 27 April 1938. You will notice that in the first paragraph of
this letter from the OKW it says that the interpretation which has been
put on the decree of the Führer—the decree of 4 February 1938—does not
correspond to the necessities of total warfare.
And then you go down to the third paragraph on that first page and you
will find other objections with respect to your authority. Apparently at
this time the OKW thought you had too much to do with what would be the
war effort, and finally on the last page, Mr. Witness, if you will look
at this paragraph, you will see this sentence—on the last page of the
English, anyway; near the end of the letter this sentence appears:
“The war economy, which is subordinated to the Plenipotentiary,
represents the economic rear area of the armaments industry.”
And I want you to observe carefully those words “armaments industry.”
And then it goes on to say:
“If this stage fails, the striking power of the Armed Forces
becomes questionable.”
I ask that you pay attention to the words “armaments industry,” because
I recall that this morning you said you had absolutely nothing to do
with the armaments industry; but apparently the OKW thought that you
did, on 27 April 1938. Is that not so?
FUNK: I do not know this letter either. I do not know the attitude of
the OKW but I do know this: The OKW, especially the Codefendant Field
Marshal Keitel, was of the opinion at that time that I, as
Plenipotentiary General for War Economy, should assume the authority and
competence of Schacht; but there was a conversation between the Reich
Marshal and Field Marshal Keitel—Keitel confirmed this to me—in which
the Reich Marshal clearly declared; “The war economy will not be turned
over to Funk.” I can honestly and sincerely say that I did not have the
slightest idea of all these things. I did not know what kind of position
the OKW intended me to have. I never had that function because the
administration for the armaments industry was never included in the
Ministry of Economics. I do not remember the matter.
MR. DODD: All right. That is your answer. I suppose at the time you were
also aware, as you told the Tribunal, that you were really subordinate
to Göring and in a very inferior position about all of these things. Is
that so?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: I am going to ask you to look at another Document, Number
EC-271, which will become Exhibit USA-841, and this document consists of
a letter which you wrote to Lammers, a letter which Lammers wrote to the
Chief of the High Command, Field Marshal Keitel, and one or two other
letters not pertinent for the purposes of this present inquiry. It was
written on 31 March 1938, and I want you to turn to the second page
because that is where your letter appears. The first page is just a
letter of transmittal from Lammers to Keitel, but let us look at the
second page. Have you got it?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: You are writing to Lammers and you say—I am not going to read
the whole letter, but the second paragraph. You wrote to Lammers and you
say among other things:
“On the occasion of a trip to Austria I have, among other
matters, also talked to Field Marshal Göring about the position
of the Plenipotentiary for War Economy. I pointed out in this
conversation that, contrary to the attitude of the OKW, of which
I was informed, the decree of 4 February 1938 concerning the
leadership of the Wehrmacht did not change the position of the
Plenipotentiary for War Economy.”
And you go on—aside from the fact that the decree applied exclusively
to the command of the Armed Forces, and so on, and that especially the
last paragraph of that decree stated that you were dependent upon
instructions of the Führer—to say:
“Moreover, among the instructions of the Führer is included the
decision of the Reich Government of 21 May 1935, according to
which the Plenipotentiary for War Economy, in his sphere of duty
as supreme Reich authority, is immediately subordinated to the
Führer.
“General Field Marshal Göring assured me that my interpretation,
as mentioned above, was correct in every respect and also
corresponds with the Führer’s opinion. Thereupon I asked him to
give me a brief written confirmation. Field Marshal Göring
promised to grant this request.”
Now, you wrote that letter to Lammers, did you not, on 31 March 1938,
“yes” or “no?”
FUNK: Certainly.
MR. DODD: All right. You were trying to have supreme authority and make
yourself answerable only to the Führer and that is what this contest was
about, and that is what Document Number EC-271 referred to and this is
your answer to the OKW’s objection that you had too much power. This
does not look like you were a little man, does it, Mr. Witness?
FUNK: Yes. I wanted to clarify the position, but later it was not
clarified in that sense but in the sense that I was dependent upon the
directives of the Reich Marshal. I wrote this letter in order to try to
obtain a clarification, but I do not remember this letter in detail.
MR. DODD: You told Lammers...
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, is not this letter that you have just read the
very letter which is referred to in the letter which you put to him
immediately before?
MR. DODD: Yes, Sir, it is. It referred to EC-271. I am sorry, I said
271, I meant 270.
THE PRESIDENT: GB Number 649/38 is the letter you just read. Will you
look at the first paragraph of EC-270; the letter referred to there,
criticizing, is the Defendant Funk’s letter you just read.
MR. DODD: Yes, it is, your Honor.
[_Turning to the witness._] My point here, Mr. Witness, is that, you
see, you told the Tribunal that you really just worked for Göring; that
you did not have much to say about these things, but now we find that
you were writing a letter asserting your supreme authority and saying
now, “it is a fact that I am really only answerable to Hitler,” and, you
see, those two are quite inconsistent. What have you got to say about
that?
FUNK: Yes; in fact, I was never successful.
MR. DODD: Now, let us see if you were not. Now you turn another page in
that document and you will find another letter from Lammers, written on
6 April 1938, and it is written to you, and he tells you that you are
just right in what you understood to be your position; that you are
indeed only subordinate to the Führer and that he has sent a copy of
your letter to both Field Marshal Göring and the Commander of the OKW.
Now, what do you say about that?
FUNK: I see from this that I tried at that time to achieve that post,
but in fact I never succeeded because the Reich Marshal himself stated
later that he would never turn over the war economy to me. The formal
authority of the Plenipotentiary for Economy was turned over to the Four
Year Plan by a decree of the Führer of December 1939.
MR. DODD: Well, is that your answer? Now, you also have told the
Tribunal, as I understood you at least, that you really did not have
much to do with the planning of any aggressive wars, and that your
activities were restricted to regulating and controlling the home
economy, so to speak. Now, actually on 28 January 1939, which was some
months before the invasion of Poland, you were considering the use of
prisoners of war, were you not?
FUNK: That I do not know.
MR. DODD: Are you sure about that? Now I will ask that you be shown
another document, Number EC-488 which becomes Exhibit USA-842. This is
an unsigned letter, a captured document from your files. This letter, by
the way, was transmitted under the signature of Sarnow. You know who he
was; he was your deputy. Now, this letter, dated 28 January 1939, says
that its subject is “Re: Employment of Prisoners of War.” Then it goes
on to say:
“Under the Reich Defense Law of 4 September 1938* I have the
direction for the economic preparations for the Reich defense,
except the armament industry.”
Then it goes on, “For the utilization of labor...” and so on. But what I
want to call your attention to particularly is the sentence in the
second paragraph which says:
“The deficit in manpower may force me to the employment of
prisoners of war as far as possible and practical. The
preparations, therefore, have to be made in close co-operation
with the OKW and GBW. The offices under my jurisdiction will
duly participate therein.”
Remember that communication?
FUNK: No, I have never seen that letter, and never signed it. But that
letter belongs to the matters about which I spoke this morning. The
office of the Plenipotentiary for Economy—moreover, I see
“Plenipotentiary for War Economy” is scratched out—was continuously
occupied with these things. I personally had nothing to do with it.
MR. DODD: Well now, that is rather playing with words. This was your
Ministry that was making these suggestions, and your principal deputy
who transmitted this letter, is that not so?
FUNK: No, that was...
MR. DODD: Now, you look up in the right hand corner of that letter and
see if it doesn’t say “The Plenipotentiary for the Economy,” and then it
gives the address and date.
FUNK: Yes, and it is signed “By Order: Sarnow.”
MR. DODD: That is right, and he was your principal deputy, was he not?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: What was he?
FUNK: He only worked in the office of the Plenipotentiary General. My
main deputy, who was in charge of those things, was Dr. Posse.
MR. DODD: Well now, at any rate...
FUNK: As I have said before, I personally had nothing to do with these
things whatsoever.
MR. DODD: It has just been called to my attention that if you say the
man was Posse, then in the second paragraph of that letter you can find
his name: “I can refer to the statements of Generaloberst Keitel, State
Secretary Dr. Posse...” At any event, important people in your
organization were involved in this thing, were they not?
FUNK: Certainly.
MR. DODD: All right. Now, you remember the Document Number 3562-PS. It
was introduced here as Exhibit USA-662. It is the minutes of a meeting
set out by Dr. Posse, your deputy, which discussed a memorandum for
financing the war, and you talked about that this morning and you said
that despite the fact that there is a note on it “to be shown to the
Minister,” you never saw it.
FUNK: I would have had to initial it if I had seen it.
MR. DODD: Well, whether that is so or not, I am not concerned about
right now. Instead, I want you to listen while I read an excerpt from
it. If you would like to see the document you can have it, but I hardly
think it is necessary. You recall that in that document one of your
memoranda is referred to, is it not? Do you remember? Do you remember
that Posse said:
“It was pointed out that the Plenipotentiary for Economy is
primarily concerned with introducing into the legislation for
war finance the idea of financing war expenditures by
anticipating future revenues, to be expected after the war.”
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right. That is all I have to ask about that document. We
can move right along here.
Referring again to your own direct testimony, I understood you to tell
the Tribunal that insofar as the war against Poland was concerned, you
did not really know until some time in August that there was even a
likelihood of war with Poland; some time in August you thought it would
be settled by diplomatic means. Is that not so?
FUNK: In all probability not. For months there was a latent danger of
war, but even in August one could see that it was imminent.
MR. DODD: Had you been planning or making economic plans for war with
Poland for more than a year before the attack on Poland? You can answer
that “yes” or “no.”
FUNK: I do not know.
MR. DODD: You mean you did not know whether you had or not? What do you
mean by that kind of an answer? Do you not remember?
FUNK: I do not remember.
MR. DODD: All right. Then I can help you. There is a Document, Number
3324-PS, which is already in evidence. You must remember it; it is
Exhibit USA-661. That is a speech that you made. Is that not so? Do you
not remember saying in it that you had been planning in secret for well
over a year for the war on Poland? Do you remember that? Would you like
to see the document?
FUNK: Yes, please.
MR. DODD: The sentence is here:
“Although all the economic and financial departments were
utilized in the tasks and work of the Four Year Plan, under the
leadership of Field Marshal Göring, the war economic preparation
of Germany on another branch has also been advanced in secret
for years...”
Do you remember that?
FUNK: Yes, now I know.
MR. DODD: You will notice it says here “for well over a year,” and you
went on to say this had been done under you. Is that true?
FUNK: Yes, that was the activity of the Plenipotentiary for civilian
economy. I already explained that this morning.
MR. DODD: All right. Well, that is all right. I just wanted to get your
answer...
FUNK: I did not speak of Poland.
MR. DODD: Well, that is the only war that was on when you made this
speech. It was October 1939.
FUNK: The preparations were not made for a specific war, it was...
MR. DODD: All right.
FUNK: It was a general preparation.
MR. DODD: Now, actually you and Göring were even in a contest for power
to some extent, were you not? Was the Göring door one of those that you
were also trying to get in? You can answer that very simply. You told us
you were trying to get in these various doors, but you would get up
there and never get in. I now ask you if the Göring door was one of
those.
FUNK: I do not believe that I was so presumptuous as to want to get
Göring’s post. That was far from being my intention. I had very little
ambition at all.
MR. DODD: I did not say that you wanted to get his post, but you wanted
to get some of his authority, did you not? Or do you not remember? Maybe
that is the solution.
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Well, your man Posse was interrogated here by representatives
of the Prosecution and the document is Number 3894-PS. He was asked
these questions:
“Question: ‘What was the nature of the conflict between the
Plenipotentiary for Economy and the Four Year Plan?’
“Answer: ‘The struggle for power.’
“Question: ‘The struggle for power between Funk and Göring?’
“Answer: ‘The struggle for power between Funk and Göring,
between Funk and the Ministry for Agriculture and the Ministry
of Communications.’
“Question: ‘How was the struggle finally resolved?’
“Answer: ‘Never. It was a struggle always continuing under the
surface.’”
Then we move on:
“Question: ‘Did Funk, who had very important powers as Minister
of Economics and later as Reichsbank President and as Chief
Plenipotentiary for Economy, actually exercise these powers?’
“Answer: ‘Yes. But the powers of Göring were stronger.’
“Question: ‘Nevertheless, Funk did exercise important powers?’
“Answer: ‘Yes, as President of the Reichsbank, Minister of
Economics, and Plenipotentiary for Economy.’”
Posse was your chief deputy, was he not?
FUNK: Yes, but Posse’s position was somewhat apart. My deputy was
Landfried, and in the Reichsbank, Puhl. They knew these things better
than Herr Posse.
MR. DODD: Well, all right.
FUNK: They should know more about it than Posse.
MR. DODD: You do not think he really knew what he was talking about when
he said you were in the struggle for power? Is that your answer?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: [_Turning to the Tribunal._] That becomes Exhibit USA-843. We
have not offered it up to now.
Now, Mr. Witness, I want to ask you about when you first heard of the
impending attack on Russia. I understood you to tell the Tribunal that
you heard about it some time—I think you said—in May. Is that right?
Or June?
FUNK: When Rosenberg was appointed.
MR. DODD: Well, that is what we want to know. When Rosenberg, in April
of 1941, was appointed, you knew then there was to be an attack on
Russia, did you not? But this morning I do not think you made that
clear. Is that not right, Dr. Funk?
FUNK: Yes, I said that the reason given us for that appointment was that
the Führer considered a war with Russia to be possible.
MR. DODD: Yes, but you know what you told the Tribunal this morning. You
said that Lammers sent you notice of Rosenberg’s appointment because of
your interest in improving the trade relations with Russia. That is the
answer you made this morning. Now, that was not so, was it?
FUNK: Yes, Lammers has said that here, too.
MR. DODD: I do not care what Lammers said. I am asking you now if it is
not a fact that you were told by Lammers because you were to co-operate
with Rosenberg in making ready for the occupation of those territories
after the attack began. Now you can answer that very simply. Is that not
true?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Now, we will see. You know, on another occasion you have given
another answer, by the way, I might say, parenthetically. Do you
remember telling the interrogator that you first heard from Hess about
the impending attack on Russia? Do you remember you gave that answer at
one time as the source of your first knowledge? Do you remember telling
us that?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: I’ll tell you about that in a minute. We will stay now on this
Rosenberg business.
There is a Document Number 1031-PS and it is dated 28 May 1941, which
would be a little more than a month after the Rosenberg appointment:
“Top secret notes; meeting with Reich Minister Funk.” Do you know what
you were talking about that day, about counterfeiting money for use in
Russia and the Ukraine and the Caucasus? Do you remember it?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: You do not remember it? Well, you had better take a look at
the Document. It is Number 1031-PS, which becomes Exhibit USA-844. Do
you not remember the day that your Reichsbank Director Wilhelm said it
should not appear that you were counterfeiting so-called ruble bills for
use in the occupied countries? Rosenberg was at that meeting. It is a
very short memorandum. Have you read it? Oh, it is on Page 4, I think,
of the document that you have; I am sorry. Do you find it? It starts
out: “In the Ukraine and the Caucasus, however, it would become
necessary to maintain the present currency, the ruble...” and so on. You
were talking about money problems in the territory that you expected to
occupy, and that was, well, about a month before the attack and about a
month after Rosenberg’s appointment, was it not? Can you not give me an
answer?
FUNK: I have not found the passage yet. Yes, if these countries were
conquered, it was necessary to deal with these questions.
MR. DODD: The point is that certainly by that time you knew about the
impending attack on the countries that had to be conquered, did you not?
FUNK: I knew nothing of an attack. I only knew of an imminent danger of
war.
MR. DODD: Well, all right, you have it your way. The important thing is
that you were talking about using money in the Ukraine and in the
Caucasus, and it happened about a month later.
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right. There are quite a few questions I want to ask. I
would like to close this examination before the adjournment time is due.
Do you have anything you want to say to that? I only offered to show you
that you had knowledge about the impending attack. You knew that
something was going to happen in the East. That is all I wanted to ask.
I think you will agree with that, will you not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right.
FUNK: Since the appointment of Rosenberg—and I explained that quite
clearly this morning—I knew that a war with Russia was threatening.
MR. DODD: We are all in agreement. We do not need to go further. I
understood you to say this morning that you did not know. That is all
right. I misunderstood you then. I now understand you to say that you
did know it.
FUNK: I said quite clearly this morning that I was informed that the
Führer was expecting a war with Russia, but I am not sure about this
document, as to who has written it.
MR. DODD: Well, I do not know either. I can simply tell you that it was
captured, among other documents, from Rosenberg’s files. I cannot tell
you anything more about it. I think we can talk about something else, if
you will permit me. I really do not think there is any need to go on
with it.
FUNK: Yes, but it is important insofar as these things about the ruble
have been attributed to me.
MR. DODD: I will say it is, too.
FUNK: It says here that I said that the use of the
Reichskreditkassenscheine and the determining of the rate of exchange
involved considerable danger. In other words, I was very doubtful in
regard to the proposals made in this respect.
MR. DODD: All right. I am glad to have your observations about it. Now,
I want to talk to you a little bit about when you took over the
Reichsbank. Posse was your principal deputy in your Ministry of
Economics, was he not?
FUNK: Landfried was my main deputy.
MR. DODD: And by the way, he was at the same meeting that we have just
been talking about. Who was your principal assistant in the Reichsbank?
FUNK: Puhl.
MR. DODD: He was a holdover from the Schacht days, was he not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Did you induce him to remain? Did you ask him to remain?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: You said that you selected your personnel. That is what you
told the Tribunal this morning.
FUNK: No. Puhl remained and also Kretschmann and Wilhelm.
MR. DODD: I am not interested in going through your roster of personnel.
I am only asking—and I will tell you the purpose. Puhl was a reliable
banking man, was he not? He was well known in the international banking
circles. He had been offered a position in the Chase Bank in New York at
one time, did you know that?
FUNK: No, I did not know that.
MR. DODD: Well, it is true. In any event, he was quite a man, and he is
a reliable man, is he not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: You asked for him as a witness, did you not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: And you wanted him to come here because you believe him and
you know he...
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Now, I want to talk a little bit about the gold in the
Reichsbank. How much gold did you have on hand at the end of the year
1941, roughly? Do not give me a long story about it, because I am not
too much interested. I am merely trying to find out if you were short on
gold in 1941.
FUNK: The gold reserve which I took over amounted to about 500 million
Reichsmark when I received the post of Schacht.
MR. DODD: Well, all right.
FUNK: It was increased in any substantial manner only by the Belgian
gold, as far as I know.
MR. DODD: That is really—it is interesting to hear all about it, but I
have another purpose in mind. From whence did you obtain gold after you
took over? Where did you get any new gold reserves from?
FUNK: Only by changing foreign currency into gold, and then, after I
took over the post, we got in addition the gold reserve of the Czech
National Bank. But we mainly increased our reserve through the Belgian
gold.
MR. DODD: All right. Now, of course, gold became very important to you
as a matter of payment in foreign exchange. You had to pay off in gold
along in 1942 and 1943, did you not? Is that so?
FUNK: It was very difficult to pay in gold.
MR. DODD: I know it was.
FUNK: Because the countries with which we still had business relations
introduced gold embargoes. Sweden refused to accept gold at all. Only in
Switzerland could we still do business through changing gold into
foreign currency.
MR. DODD: I think you have established that you had to use gold as
foreign exchange in 1942 and 1943 and that is all I wanted to know. When
did you start to do business with the SS, Mr. Funk?
FUNK: Business with the SS? I have never done that.
MR. DODD: Yes, sir, business with the SS. Are you sure about that? I
want you to take this very seriously. It is about the end of your
examination, and it is very important to you. I ask you again, when did
you start to do business with the SS?
FUNK: I never started business with the SS. I can only repeat what I
said in the preliminary interrogation. Puhl one day informed me that a
deposit had been received from the SS. First I assumed that it was a
regular deposit, that is, a deposit which remained locked and which was
of no further concern to us, but then Puhl told me later that these
deposits of the SS should be used by the Reichsbank. I assumed they
consisted of gold coins and foreign currency, but principally gold
coins, which every German citizen had had to turn in as it was, and
which were taken from inmates of concentration camps and turned over to
the Reichsbank. Valuables which had been taken from the inmates of
concentration camps did not go to the Reichsbank but, as we have several
times heard here, to the Reich Minister of Finance, that is...
MR. DODD: Just a minute. Were you in the habit of having gold teeth
deposited in the Reichsbank?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: But you did have it from the SS, did you not?
FUNK: I do not know.
MR. DODD: You do not know?
Well, now, if Your Honor please, we have a very brief film, and I think
we can show it before we adjourn, and I would like to show it to the
witness before I examine him further on this gold business in the
Reichsbank. It is a picture that was taken by the Allied Forces when
they entered the Reichsbank, and it will show gold teeth and bridges and
so on in their vaults.
FUNK: I know nothing about it.
MR. DODD: I think perhaps before I show the film I would like—I think I
can do it in the time; I do want to complete this this afternoon—to
read you an affidavit from this man Puhl who, you told me a few minutes
ago, was a credible, well-informed man and whom you called as a witness.
This affidavit is dated 3 May 1946.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, I protest against the reading of this
affidavit by Herr Puhl. This affidavit most probably—I’m not sure—was
taken here in Nuremberg. We do not know its contents. The Prosecution
surprises us today with an affidavit of which we know nothing, and
within ten minutes a dozen documents are thrown at us, of which the
Prosecution asserts they are only short documents, whereas, for
instance, one affidavit among them contains twelve pages, I believe. It
is quite impossible for us, in the course of the extreme speed at which
this examination is taking place, to follow these statements and these
documents. Therefore I have to protest against the use of an affidavit
of that kind at this moment.
MR. DODD: Well, this affidavit was taken at Baden-Baden, Germany, on the
3rd day of May. We have been trying for a long time to put this part of
this case together, and we have finally succeeded. Certainly we did not
turn it over to Dr. Sauter, because we wanted to use it for just the
purposes that I am trying to put it to now. And it is an affidavit of
his assistant Puhl, whom he called as a witness and from whom he expects
to have an interrogatory. It has to do with a very important part in
this case. I might say that if we are permitted to use it, certainly Dr.
Sauter will have a chance to re-examine on it and he will have all night
to study it if he would like to look it over.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, are you wanting to cross-examine the witness
about this document?
MR. DODD: Yes, I want to read it to him and I want to ask him a couple
of questions about it. I want him to know it because it is the basis for
two or three questions of cross-examination, and to impeach him for
statements he has already made about the gold.
THE PRESIDENT: You may do that. But Dr. Sauter, of course, will be able,
if he wishes to do so, to apply afterwards that the witness should be
produced for cross-examination. And he will have time in which he can
consider the affidavit and make any comments that he wants to about it.
MR. DODD: Very well, Your Honor.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, may I make just one statement? Today a case
occurred where the Prosecution protested against the fact that a
document was used of which the Prosecution had not previously received
an English translation. The representative of the Prosecution told me he
did not understand German, and therefore the document had to be
translated. I am of the opinion that the Defense should get the same
right as the Prosecution.
If one English document after the other is thrown at me without my
having the slightest idea of the contents, then I cannot answer them.
Difficulties are constantly increasing. For instance, I have received
documents here which contain 12 pages. One sentence is read out of such
a document. The defendant is not given time to read even one single
further paragraph. I myself am not given time. And in spite of that it
is expected that the defendant immediately explains one single sentence
taken out of the context, without having the possibility of examining
the document. That, in my opinion, is asking too much.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, you had a translation in German of nearly
every document, if not every document. And you have also been given
every opportunity to consider documents when they have been translated
into German. And that opportunity will be given to you hereafter and if
there are any documents which are being used in cross-examination now
which are not in German, they will be translated into German, and you
will have them then. But once the witness is under cross-examination,
the documents may be used. If you want to re-examine upon the documents
after you have them in German, you will be able to do so.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, we Defense Counsel also desire to further the
proceedings and not to delay them. But it does not help me at all if, in
a week or two, when I shall finally have been able to examine the
documents thrown today on the table, I must turn to you, Mr. President,
with the request to be permitted to question the witness again. We are
glad once we are through with the examination of the witnesses. But we
simply cannot follow Mr. Dodd’s method. I cannot follow, and the
defendant cannot either. One cannot expect the defendant to explain an
isolated sentence taken out of the context, if he had no chance to
examine the document as a whole.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd.
MR. DODD: May I proceed to examine on the document?
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, have you got any objection to Dr. Sauter’s
seeing the document?
MR. DODD: Yes, indeed I have. I think it would be a new rule. Ever since
this Defense opened, we have presented and confronted documents for the
purpose of impeaching the credibility of various witnesses, and used
these documents, and it goes to the very foundation of
cross-examination. If we have to turn such documents over to the Defense
before we cross-examine, the whole purpose of cross-examination is gone.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, if you are putting the document in and putting
it to the witness as a document, then his counsel is entitled, I should
have thought, to have it at the same moment.
MR. DODD: We are perfectly willing to give him a German copy right now.
It is here for him, if he wants to have it, and we were ready with it
when we came in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: In German?
MR. DODD: Yes, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: I think the best thing will be for us to adjourn now, and
then you will hand to Dr. Sauter when you use the document a translation
of it in German.
MR. DODD: Yes; tomorrow morning, when we use it.
THE PRESIDENT: When you use it.
MR. DODD: Very well, Sir.
[_The Tribunal adjourned until 7 May 1946 at 1000 hours._]
ONE HUNDRED
AND TWENTY-THIRD DAY
Tuesday, 7 May 1946
_Morning Session_
[_The Defendant Funk resumed the stand._]
MR. DODD: Witness, you had a conference with Dr. Sauter last night after
we recessed Court, did you not, for about an hour?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Now we were talking yesterday, when the Tribunal rose, about
the gold deposits in the Reichsbank, and I had asked you when you
started to do business with the SS, and as I recall, you said you did
not do any business with the SS. And then we went along a little further
and you did say that the SS did deposit some materials, some property
belonging to people in concentration camps. Do I properly understand
your testimony to have been, in substance, as I have stated it?
FUNK: No. I said that Herr Puhl—I do not remember in what year—told me
one day that a gold deposit had arrived from the SS and he also told
me—and he said it somewhat ironically—it would be better that we
should not try to ascertain what this deposit was. As I said yesterday,
it was impossible in any case to ascertain what was deposited. When
something was deposited, the Reichsbank had no right to look into it to
see of what it consisted. Only later, when Herr Puhl made another report
to me, did I realize that when he used the word “deposit” it was a wrong
term; it was not a deposit but it was a delivery of gold. There is of
course a great difference. I personally assumed that it concerned a gold
deposit, that this gold consisted of gold coins or other foreign
currency or small bars of gold or something similar, which had been
brought in from the inmates of the concentration camps—everybody in
Germany had to hand these things over—and that it was being handed to
the Reichsbank, which would use it. Since you mentioned this matter, I
remember another fact of which I was not conscious until now. I was
asked about it during my interrogation, and during this interrogation I
could not say “yes” to it because at that time I did not remember it. I
was asked during my interrogation whether I had the agreement of the
Reichsführer that the gold which was delivered to the Reichsbank should
be utilized by the Reichsbank. I said I did not remember. However, if
Herr Puhl makes such a statement under oath, I will not and cannot
dispute it. It is evident that if gold were delivered which should come
to the Reichsbank, then the Reichsbank had the right to utilize such
gold. I certainly never spoke more than twice or at most three times to
Herr Puhl about this matter. What these deposits or these deliveries
consisted of and what was done with these deliveries, how they were
utilized, I do not know. Herr Puhl never informed me about that either.
MR. DODD: Well now, let us see. You were not ordinarily in the habit, in
the Reichsbank, of accepting jewels, monocles, spectacles, watches,
cigarette cases, pearls, diamonds, gold dentures, were you? You
ordinarily accepted that sort of material for deposit in your bank?
FUNK: No; there could be no question, in my opinion, that the bank had
no right to do that, because these things were supposed to be delivered
to an entirely different place. If I am correctly informed about the
legal position, these things were supposed to be delivered to the Reich
Office for Precious Metals and not to the Reichsbank. Diamonds, jewels,
and precious stones were not the concern of the Reichsbank because it
was not a place of sale for these things. And in my opinion, if the
Reichsbank did that, then it was unlawful.
MR. DODD: That is exactly right.
FUNK: If that happened, then the Reichsbank committed an illegal act.
The Reichsbank was not authorized to do that.
MR. DODD: And is it your statement that if it was done you did not know
anything about it?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: You did not know?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: You were frequently in the vaults of the Reichsbank, were you
not? As a matter of fact you liked to take visitors through there. I
say, you were frequently in the vaults of the bank yourself?
FUNK: Yes, I was, where the gold bars were kept.
MR. DODD: I will come to the gold bars in a minute. I just want to
establish that you were in the vaults frequently, and your answer, as I
understand it, is “yes” that you were?
FUNK: It was the usual thing if someone came to visit us, particularly
foreign visitors, to show them the rooms where the gold was kept and we
always showed them the gold bars and there was always the usual joke as
to whether one could lift a gold bar or not. But I never saw anything
else there except gold bars.
MR. DODD: How heavy were these gold bars that you had in the vaults?
FUNK: They were the usual gold bars which were used in commerce between
banks. I think they varied in weight. I think the gold bars weighed
about 20 kilograms. Of course, you can figure it out. If one...
MR. DODD: That is all right. That is satisfactory. When you were in the
vaults you never saw any of these materials that I mentioned a few
minutes ago—jewels, cigarette cases, watches, and all that business?
FUNK: Never. I was in the vaults at the most four or five times and then
only to show this very interesting spectacle to visitors.
MR. DODD: Only four or five times from 1941 to 1945?
FUNK: I assume so. It was not more often. I only went down there with
visitors, particularly foreign visitors.
MR. DODD: Are you telling the Tribunal that as head of the Reichsbank
you never made an inspection, so to speak, of the vaults, never took a
look at the collateral? Did you not ever make an inspection before you
made your certifications as to what was on hand? Certainly every
responsible banker does that regularly, does he not? What is your
answer?
FUNK: No, never. The business of the Reichsbank was not conducted by the
President. It was conducted by the Directorate. I never bothered about
individual transactions, not even gold transactions, or even about
slight variations in the individual gold reserves, _et cetera_. If large
deliveries of gold were expected, the Directorate reported to me. The
Directorate conducted the business, and I believe the detailed
transactions were probably known only to the director responsible for
that particular department.
MR. DODD: Now, did you ever do any business with pawnshops?
FUNK: With what?
MR. DODD: Pawnshops. Do you not know what a pawnshop is? There must be a
German word for that.
FUNK: Pfandleihe.
MR. DODD: Whatever it is, you know what they are, do you not?
FUNK: Where you pawn something.
MR. DODD: Yes.
FUNK: No, I never did any...
MR. DODD: All right, we will get to that a little later too. Right now,
since you do not seem to recall that you ever had any or saw any such
materials as I have described in your vaults, I ask that we have an
opportunity to show you a film which was taken of some materials in your
vaults when the Allied Forces arrived there.
[_Turning to the President._] I would ask, Mr. President, that the
defendant be permitted to come down, where he can watch the film, so
that his memory will be properly refreshed.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, you may have him brought down.
[_Moving pictures were then shown._]
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, at some stage, I take it, you will offer
evidence as to where that film was made.
MR. DODD: Yes, I will. There will be an affidavit as to the
circumstances under which the film was made, who was present, and why;
but, for the information of the Tribunal, it was taken in Frankfurt when
the Allied Forces captured that city and went into the Reichsbank
vaults.
[_Turning to the defendant._] Now, Witness, having seen these pictures
of materials that were found in your Reichsbank vaults a year ago, or a
little earlier than a year ago, you now recall that you did have such
material on hand over a period of 4 or 5 years, 3 or 4 years, 3 years—I
think actually a little longer than 3 years?
FUNK: I have never seen anything of this sort. I also have the
impression that a large part of these things which were shown in the
film came from deposits, because people, thousands of them, had locked
deposits which they delivered to the Reichsbank, in which they put their
jewels and other valuables, as we have just seen. Probably some were
hidden valuables, which they should have given up, such as foreign
money, foreign exchange, gold coins, _et cetera_. As far as I know we
had thousands of closed deposits into which the Reichsbank could not
look. I never saw a single item such as these shown in the film, and I
cannot imagine where these things came from, to whom they belonged, and
to what use they were put.
MR. DODD: Well, that is an interesting answer. I asked you yesterday,
and I ask you again now, did you ever hear of anybody depositing his
gold dentures in a bank for safekeeping? [_There was no response._]
You saw that film, and you saw the gold bridgework, or mouth-plates, did
you not, and the other dental work? Certainly nobody ever deposited that
with a bank. Is that not a fact?
FUNK: As far as the teeth are concerned, this is a special case. Where
these teeth came from I do not know. It was not reported to me, nor do I
know what was done with those teeth. I am convinced that items of this
sort, when they were delivered to the Reichsbank, had to be turned over
to the Office for Precious Metals, for the Reichsbank was not a place
where gold was worked. Neither do I know whether the Reichsbank even had
the technical facilities to work this metal. I do not know about that.
MR. DODD: And not only did people not deposit gold teeth, but they never
deposited eyeglass rims, did they, such as you saw in the picture?
FUNK: That is right. These things are, of course, no regular deposits.
That goes without saying.
MR. DODD: And you saw there were some objects that obviously were in the
process of being melted down. Practically the last scene in that film
showed something that looked as if it had been in the process of being
melted, did it not? You saw it?
Well, will you answer me, please, “yes” or “no”? Did you see it?
FUNK: I cannot say that exactly. I do not know whether they were melting
it down. I have no knowledge of these technical matters. To be sure, now
I see quite clearly what was not known to me until now, that the
Reichsbank did the technical work of melting down gold articles.
MR. DODD: Well, now, let us see what your assistant, Mr. Puhl, says
about that, the man who you told us yesterday was a credible gentleman,
and whom you asked the Tribunal to call as a witness on your behalf. I
am holding in my hand an affidavit executed by him on the 3rd day of May
1946 at Baden-Baden, Germany.
“Emil Puhl, being duly sworn, deposes and says:
“1. My name is Emil Puhl. I was born on 28 August 1889 in
Berlin, Germany. I was appointed a member of the Board of
Directors of the Reichsbank in 1935 and Vice President of the
Reichsbank in 1939, and served in these positions continuously
until the surrender of Germany.
“2. In the summer of 1942 Walter Funk, President of the
Reichsbank and Reich Minister of Economics, had a conversation
with me and later with Mr. Friedrich Wilhelm, who was a member
of the Board of Directors of the Reichsbank. Funk told me that
he had arranged with Reichsführer Himmler to have the Reichsbank
receive in safe custody gold and jewels for the SS. Funk
directed that I should work out the arrangements with Pohl, who,
as head of the economic section of the SS, administered the
economic side of the concentration camps.
“3. I asked Funk what the source was of the gold, jewels, bank
notes, and other articles to be delivered by the SS. Funk
replied that it was confiscated property from the Eastern
Occupied Territories, and that I should ask no further
questions. I protested against the Reichsbank handling this
material. Funk stated that we were to go ahead with the
arrangements for handling the material, and that we were to keep
the matter absolutely secret.
“4. I then made the necessary arrangements with one of the
responsible officials in charge of the cash and safes
departments for receiving the material, and reported the matter
to the Board of Directors of the Reichsbank at its next meeting.
On the same day Pohl, of the economic section of the SS,
telephoned me and asked if I had been advised of the matter. I
said I would not discuss it by telephone. He then came to see me
and reported that the SS had some jewelry for delivery to the
Reichsbank for safekeeping. I arranged with him for delivery and
from then on deliveries were made from time to time, from August
1942 throughout the following years.
“5. The material deposited by the SS included jewelry, watches,
eyeglass frames, dental gold, and other gold articles in great
abundance, taken by the SS from Jews, concentration camp
victims, and other persons. This was brought to our knowledge by
SS personnel who attempted to convert this material into cash
and who were helped in this by the Reichsbank personnel with
Funk’s approval and knowledge. In addition to jewels and gold
and other such items, the SS also delivered bank notes, foreign
currency, and securities to the Reichsbank to be handled by the
usual legal procedure established for such items. As far as the
jewelry and gold were concerned, Funk told me that Himmler and
Von Krosigk, the Reich Minister of Finance, had reached an
agreement according to which the gold and similar articles were
on deposit for the account of the State and that the proceeds
resulting from the sale thereof would be credited to the Reich
Treasury.
“6. From time to time, in the course of my duties, I visited the
vaults of the Reichsbank and observed what was in storage. Funk
also visited the vaults from time to time.
“7. The Golddiskontobank, at the direction of Funk, also
established a revolving fund which finally reached 10 to 12
million Reichsmark for the use of the economic section of the SS
to finance production of materials by concentration camp labor
in factories run by the SS.
“I am conversant with the English language and declare that the
statements made herein are true to the best of my knowledge and
belief.”
Document Number 3944-PS; it is signed by Emil Puhl and duly witnessed.
Mr. President, I would like to offer this affidavit as Exhibit USA-846
and the film as Exhibit USA-845.
[_Turning to the defendant._] Now, Witness, having heard this affidavit
from your close associate and your brother director of the Board of
Directors of the Reichsbank, and the man who, you admitted yesterday was
a credible and truthful man, what do you now say to this Tribunal about
your knowledge of what was going on between your bank and the SS?
FUNK: I declare that this affidavit by Herr Puhl is not true. I spoke to
Herr Puhl about the entire matter of these gold deposits, as I have
repeatedly stated, three times at most, but I believe it was only twice.
I never exchanged a word with Herr Puhl regarding precious stones and
jewelry. It is incredible to me that a man who most certainly also
carried out certain functions in his agreements with the SS—that is,
with Herr Pohl—now tries to put the blame on me. On no account will I
take this responsibility and I request that Herr Puhl be called here,
and that in my presence he may declare in all detail when, where, and
how he has spoken to me about these different items, and to what extent
I told him what to do.
I repeat my statement that I knew nothing about jewelry and other
deliveries from concentration camps, and that I have never spoken to
Herr Puhl about these things. I can only say again what I said at the
beginning, that Herr Puhl once told me that a gold deposit had arrived
from the SS. I remember it now, it had escaped me as I did not pay too
much attention to the entire matter. I remember that, urged by him, I
spoke to the Reichsführer about whether the Reichsbank could utilize
these items. The Reichsführer said, “Yes.” But at no time did I speak to
the Reichsführer about jewelry and precious stones and watches and such
things. I spoke only of gold.
Concerning what Puhl states about a financing scheme—I believe that
goes back a number of years—I know Herr Puhl came to me one day and
said that he was asked to give a credit for certain factories of the SS
and somebody was negotiating with him about the matter. I asked him, “Is
this credit secure? Do we get interest?” He said, “Yes, up till now they
have had a credit from the Dresdner Bank and it must now be repaid.” I
said, “Very well, do that.” After that I never heard anything more about
this matter. It is news to me that this credit was so large, that it was
made by the Golddiskontobank. I do not remember it, but it is entirely
possible. However, I never heard any more about this credit, which Herr
Puhl had given to certain factories. He always spoke about factories,
about businesses; it was a bank credit which had previously been given
by a private bank. I remember I asked him once, “Has this credit been
repaid?” That was some considerable time later. He said, “No, it has not
been repaid yet.” That is all I know about these matters.
MR. DODD: All right. Now, what do you know about this—one part of the
affidavit you have not covered—what do you know about the last part
that says you established a revolving fund for the SS for the building
of factories near the concentration camps? Do you remember that? I read
it to you. Puhl says, “The Reichsbank, at the direction of Funk,
established a revolving fund which finally reached 10 to 12 million
Reichsmark for the use of the economic section of the SS to finance
production of materials by concentration camp labor in factories run by
the SS.” Do you admit that you did that?
FUNK: Yes, that is what I just mentioned; that Herr Puhl told me one
day, I believe in 1939 or 1940, that some gentlemen from the economic
section of the SS had spoken to him regarding a credit, which until that
time had been granted by the Dresdner Bank and which they would now like
to have from the Reichsbank. I asked Herr Puhl, “Will we get interest;
is the credit secure?” He said, “Yes.” So I said, “Give them this
credit,” and later on I said just what I mentioned above. That is all I
know about the matter. I know nothing more.
MR. DODD: Now, you also got a fee for handling these materials that you
saw in the film, did you not, from the SS? The bank was paid for
carrying on its part of this program?
FUNK: I did not understand that.
MR. DODD: I say, is it not a fact that you received payment from the SS
over this period of more than 3 years for handling these materials which
they turned over to you?
FUNK: I do not know about that.
MR. DODD: Well, you would know, would you not, as President of the bank,
if you did receive payment? How could you help knowing?
FUNK: These were probably such small payments that no one ever reported
them to me. I do not know anything about any payment from the SS.
MR. DODD: What would you say if I tell you that Herr Puhl said that the
bank did receive payment during these years, and that there were
altogether some 77 shipments of materials such as you saw here this
morning? Do you say that is untrue, or do you agree with it?
FUNK: That might be quite true, but I was never informed about these
things. I know nothing about it.
MR. DODD: Is it conceivable that you, as President of the Reichsbank,
could not know about 77 such shipments and about a transaction that you
were being paid to handle? Do you think that is a likely story?
FUNK: If the Board of Directors did not report to me about these things,
I cannot have known about them, and I declare again quite definitely
that I was not informed about these details. On one occasion I was told
about a gold deposit of the SS which was brought to us. Later on it
transpired that it was a delivery from the SS. And then I knew about
this credit transaction. That is all I know about these matters.
MR. DODD: Now, let me tell you something that may help you a little bit.
As a matter of fact, your bank sent memoranda to people concerning this
material from time to time, and I think you know about it, do you not?
You made up memoranda stating what you had on hand and whom you were
transferring it to. Are you familiar with any such memoranda?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Well, then you had better take a look at Document Number
3948-PS, Exhibit USA-847, and see if it refreshes your memory. That is
3948-PS.
[_The document was handed to the defendant._]