* * * * *
Mr. TAVENNER. When were you at the University of Washington?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. 1940, the summer session.
Mr. TAVENNER. I interrupted you. You were in the course of
giving some further extension work.
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I have had extension courses; I just finished
one a few weeks ago.
Mr. TAVENNER. How have you been employed since 1940?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. In 1941 I taught kindergarten. Right after
Pearl Harbor I went into the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. And when I
left there I organized and supervised the war emergency nursery schools
in Bremerton, the after-school-care program for the children of working
mothers. Then I worked for the Kitsap County Welfare Department.
Mr. TAVENNER. When was that, please? Approximately.
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. My first child was born in 1945. So it was the
year of 1945, maybe the latter part of 1944. I don’t recall exactly.
Then in the fall of 1947 I went back to teaching in the Bremerton
public schools, and have been there ever since.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Gustafson, do you have any knowledge of the
operation of the Northwest Labor School in Seattle?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to avail myself of the privilege
granted me by the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United
States, which protects me from giving testimony which might incriminate
me.
Mr. MOULDER. The question asked was: Do you possess any
information or knowledge concerning the school referred to by counsel?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. MOULDER. He did not ask you for any specific information.
He just asked you if you had such information, if you knew about the
school. Do you refuse or decline to answer?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to avail myself of the privilege
of invoking the fifth amendment for the reasons given before.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did you attend the Pacific Northwest Labor
School at any time?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously
given.
Mr. TAVENNER. Quite apparently, Mr. Chairman, it would be
a useless waste of time to ask any further questions regarding the
operation of the school.
(The Spring 1947 Catalogue of the Pacific Northwest Labor School is
hereby made a part of the transcript, and appears herewith.)
Mr. TAVENNER. During the period of time that you have been
engaged in teaching have you been a member of the American Federation
of Teachers unions?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. TAVENNER. And I should add, for your information, that
the American Federation of Teachers unions has never been cited as a
communist front organization.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Yes; I have been.
Mr. TAVENNER. Over what period of time have you been a member?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Off and on since I became eligible in 1937,
whenever I was in the public schools.
Mr. TAVENNER. The investigation which this committee has
conducted within the past few years has developed information in
several different parts of the country, and I refer particularly to New
York, to Harvard University, to the general area of Los Angeles, and, I
believe, also in Michigan, that the Communist Party made a very strong
effort to get in a position to control the activities of the teachers
unions affiliated with the American Federation of Teachers. Do you have
any knowledge as to whether or not the Communist Party made an effort
to infiltrate the American Federation of Teachers union here?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. TAVENNER. I think I should say, and it may be of some help
to you in answering the question, that I have no information of any
Communist Party activities within the American Federation of Teachers
union here. But I want to know whether there were.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. My counsel advises me that I must say “No.” I
am sorry but I have to answer.
Mr. TAVENNER. And what is your answer?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. My answer is “No.”
Mr. TAVENNER. That you do not have any such knowledge?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Absolutely not.
Mr. TAVENNER. Have you held any office or position in the
American Federation of Teachers unions?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Yes. I held the office of treasurer.
Mr. TAVENNER. Over what period of time?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I think it was a portion of 1948 and a good
share of 1949.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any
time during the years 1948 and 1949?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. No; I was not.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any
time while you were a member of the American Federation of Teachers
unions?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment,
for the reasons previously given.
Mr. TAVENNER. Are you a member of the Communist Party now?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. No.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1947?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment to
the Constitution, for the reasons previously given.
Mr. TAVENNER. According to your testimony, you were at the
University of Washington for 1 year in 1940.
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I beg your pardon. That was the summer session.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at that
time?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment for
the reasons previously given.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were Communist Party meetings held at any time
in your home during the year 1947?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment,
for the reasons previously given.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you at any time a member of the Victory
Club of the Communist Party in Bremerton?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke, for the reasons
previously given.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, inasmuch as the witness refuses
to answer as to the period 1940-47, it is hardly necessary to ask any
further questions. So that is all I have.
Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Velde?
Mr. VELDE. Do you intend to invoke the fifth amendment on any
question we might ask you touching upon your activities as a member of
the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds
previously given.
Mr. VELDE. It is obvious to me that we cannot get any
information whatsoever from this witness. So I have nothing further to
ask.
Mr. MOULDER. Would you answer a question concerning any
information or knowledge you may have of Communist Party or subversive
activities in which you yourself were in no way whatsoever personally
connected? If you had such knowledge and information, would you answer
the question concerning such information or knowledge?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, but I have to invoke
the fifth amendment, for the reasons previously given.
Mr. MOULDER. I want to make myself clear, that I am not
proposing to ask you questions concerning any matter or any fact which
would tend to incriminate you personally.
I say would you answer any question concerning any fact or information
you may have concerning subversive, communistic, or un-American
activities which you yourself were not related to, but which you have
knowledge of concerning someone else. Would you answer such a question?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I am sorry, sir, but I shall have to invoke
the fifth amendment.
Mr. MOULDER. You are excused as a witness.
The committee will stand in recess until 1:30.
(Whereupon, at 12:03 p. m., the subcommittee was recessed, to be
reconvened at 1:30 p. m., this same day. Remainder of this hearing is
printed in pt. 2 of this series.)