Mr. SYKES. Several witnesses here have invoked the fifth
amendment upon being asked the question: “Have you ever been a member
of a labor union?” And I know that the use of the fifth amendment in
answer to that question may have created some misunderstanding in the
mind of the public and the mind of the committee.
I would like to make it clear that the invoking of the fifth amendment
to this particular question is not meant to imply, nor should it
be implied, that I or my clients think there is anything at all
incriminating, in itself, in membership in a labor union.
But, as you gentlemen know, there are some labor unions in Seattle that
are having what are commonly known as Communist problems. Charges of
communism and countercharges are being filed, and members charged with
Communist activity----
Mr. MOULDER. We were to hear a short statement.
Mr. SYKES. I will shorten the statement by saying that the use
of the fifth amendment by these witnesses in answer to the question,
“Have you ever been a member of a labor union?” is not meant in any way
to incriminate labor unions as such. But the refusal is based solely on
legal and technical grounds.
Mr. MOULDER. All right, that will be all.
At this time I would like to read a letter which was addressed to the
committee from the International Association of Machinists:
DEAR SIR: Because of repeated reference to the Machinists
Union, AFL, before your committee on Thursday, March 17, 1955,
we respectfully request that the following information be made
part of the record so that all may be aware of the true facts
with respect to the attitude of the International Association of
Machinists and the participation by its members in the Communist
Party, its front organizations, or the giving of support to such
organizations.
Since 1925 the International Association of Machinists has had
prohibitions in its laws against such activities on the part of
any of its members. A diligent and unending effort has constantly
been made to rid our organization of persons having Communist or
Fascist Party membership or sympathies.
Testimony before your committee in 1954 indicated that several
persons, members of our organization, might at the same time be
members of, or giving support to, the Communist Party. Our own
investigations, since that time, have resulted in the expulsion
from our organization of four persons named by witness, Barbara
Hartle, before your committee in 1954. Among these four persons,
as expelled, was Harold Johnston, witness before your committee on
Thursday, March 17, 1955.
Investigations are continuing with respect to others and if it is
found that they also are guilty of the conduct charged to them by
witnesses before your committee, they likewise will be tried and
expelled in accordance with the provisions of our constitution.
The evidence before your committee has been most helpful and
we are certain you will find our union in the forefront,
cooperatively and aggressively opposed to communism, fascism, or
any totalitarian philosophies.
Yours very truly,
R. H. POWELL,
I. A. PECK,
_Grand Lodge Representatives,
International Association of Machinists, AFL_.
Is Mr. Carlson in the hearing room?
Call Mr. Carlson, please.
You have been sworn. Please be seated.
TESTIMONY OF EDWIN A. CARLSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, JAY G.
SYKES--Resumed
Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Carlson, during the course of your testimony
yesterday it appeared from your appearance on the witness stand that
there was a desire on your part to reconsider and testify in answer
to questions which were propounded to you by Mr. Wheeler, and also
make more clear an explanation concerning a letter which was addressed
to the chairman, Chairman Velde, when he was chairman of the full
committee on Un-American Activities, dated June 19, 1954. The letter
reads as follows:
DEAR SIRS: I see by the paper that Mrs. Hartle names one
Ed Carlson as a member of the Communist Party in the machinists
union. I presume I am the individual referred to. So that the
record is straight, let me insert this into the record for all to
see and hear.
It did not take me 20 years to decide that the Communist Party was
not the answer to the problems as I see them. In fact, I am very
nearly positive it was Mrs. Hartle who tried to persuade me to
reconsider my decision to discontinue my affiliations, which is
now approximately 5 years ago.
I do believe that my many friends and acquaintances are entitled
to this additional clarification of the facts.
Sincerely,
ED CARLSON,
_Member of Machinists Union_.
During the course of the testimony yesterday we tried to emphasize
clearly it is not the purpose of this committee to try to confuse or
entrap anyone in these proceedings, or incriminate them in any way.
We thought after you had given serious consideration to this subject,
and being recalled as a witness, that you would answer our questions
which are directed to you concerning your past Communist Party
affiliations and your association and severance from any connection
with the Communist Party.
Do you wish to do so now?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I would prefer, Mr. Chairman, to have specific
questions directed at me, if I may.
Mr. MOULDER. Very well.
Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. No, sir.
Mr. MOULDER. Were you a member of the Communist Party a year
ago?
Mr. CARSON. No, sir.
Mr. MOULDER. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1951?
Mr. CARLSON. To the best of my recollection; no, sir.
Mr. MOULDER. During the year of 1950 were you a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. CARLSON. I believe that answer also holds there. I was
not, to the best of my recollection.
Mr. MOULDER. In the year of 1949 were you a member of the
Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. That is the time, I am quite sure, that I dropped
the party.
Mr. MOULDER. That you left the party?
Mr. CARLSON. Yes.
Mr. MOULDER. Will you tell us the circumstances as to why you
left the Communist Party and severed your connections with them?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. Well, to take a certain date or specific period,
it is quite impossible.
Mr. MOULDER. We don’t expect you to be specific as to the
exact date. That is immaterial.
Mr. CARLSON. Let me answer that by making probably a
comparison with somebody else.
I think we are all acquainted with Senator Morse’s record in Oregon. He
was once a Republican, and he has turned Democrat.
I don’t think there is any specific time in his mind that he ever
turned from a Republican to a Democrat. It probably took over a period
of time. And that, I believe, Mr. Chairman, could be applied to me.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. As a specific time, at the time the Korean war
started I certainly didn’t approve of that war starting by anybody. And
I might say, likewise, that I didn’t approve of our participation in it
either. That is my conviction, sir.
Mr. MOULDER. Referring to the Communist Party, it has been
decided by the courts that it is not a political party as such; that it
is really an international conspiracy. And, therefore, your comparison
or reference to the Democratic Party or the Republican Party has no
application in comparison to the Communist Party, because it is not, in
fact, a political party.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. MOULDER. Has your philosophy and your opinion concerning
the Communist Party, then, changed from what it was at one time?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. Well, Mr. Chairman, I have a definite idea of
my own what things should be, and what my beliefs are. And I believe
it might help you to understand what I think, if I could give you an
answer here.
The best thing that I could do would be to read it out of the booklet
that I have. I believe that it would be helpful to both of us.
Mr. MOULDER. How long is it?
Mr. CARLSON. It is probably a couple of hundred words, I
believe.
Mr. MOULDER. What is the title of it?
Mr. CARLSON. It is the preamble to our machinists’
constitution.
Mr. MOULDER. Yesterday I believe you said you didn’t even know
what the Communist Party stood for or what it was all about, and led us
to believe that you were maybe innocently hooked into and taken into
the Communist Party movement at one time, still not having any opinion
toward it or approval of it.
Mr. CARLSON. The popular conception of the Communist Party
being a subversive organization, an organization looking for the
overthrow of the Government, and so on and so forth, I can’t say that
I ever believed that. And I don’t think that I know anybody that does,
that I think believes that.
Mr. MOULDER. Are you a married man, Mr. Carlson?
Mr. CARLSON. Yes, I am.
Mr. MOULDER. Do you have a family?
Mr. CARLSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. MOULDER. How many children do you have?
Mr. CARLSON. I have two. Two grandchildren, by the way.
Mr. MOULDER. Were you born in America?
Mr. CARLSON. That is right.
Mr. MOULDER. You are desirous, of course, for your children to
enjoy the benefits of living in the greatest nation in the world?
Mr. CARLSON. That is right.
Mr. MOULDER. What I am coming to is, do you approve then, of
the Communist Party movement or the international conspiracy of the
Communist Party?
Mr. CARLSON. I don’t approve of what it is reported to be.
Now, to the best of my knowledge, I don’t know that the Communist Party
stands for such things.
Mr. MOULDER. Any questions, Mr. Velde?
Mr. VELDE. I would like to ask the witness to be a little bit
more specific about the way in which he got out of the Communist Party.
We have heard a lot of witnesses here in the same situation who have
told us that it has taken quite a long while for that conversion from
communism back to Americanism. While you were in the Communist Party
did you attend meetings of the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. Congressman, as to any activity in the Communist
Party prior to, say, 1950, I will have to invoke the fifth amendment on
the grounds that it might incriminate me.
Mr. VELDE. Then you refuse to give us the benefit of the
knowledge of the Communist Party which you acquired while you were a
member of the party?
Mr. CARLSON. On the ground that it may incriminate me, I
refuse to answer.
Mr. VELDE. Do you think, Mr. Carlson, that is in good faith
with Americanism?
Mr. CARLSON. Mr. Congressman, if I recollect my history
correctly, there have been many, many people in the past that have been
convicted and thrown into jail for purely political reasons.
And it’s been proven afterward that they were only political reasons,
that they had no real basis for throwing them in jail. That is my
understanding of history. And I am not sure but what this is the same
thing.
Mr. VELDE. No, Mr. Carlson, this is not the same thing at all,
and I am sure that you are aware of that.
As a matter of fact, during the entire history of this committee there
has not been one single witness who appeared before this committee who
answered questions truthfully who has ever been prosecuted in any way,
shape, or form. That is all you have to do, in my opinion--to answer
questions truthfully--instead of refusing to answer.
Mr. CARLSON. Mr. Chairman, I would like to insert into the
record a sort of a statement here that fully covers my beliefs, and I
am sure that these have always been my beliefs.
Mr. MOULDER. You may file it. It will be made a part of the
record.
Mr. CARLSON. Could I read that so the public here themselves
would know?
Mr. MOULDER. If it is not too long. How long is it?
Mr. CARLSON. About 1 minute.
Mr. MOULDER. Very well. Proceed.
Mr. CARLSON. Mr. Chairman, this is the preamble to the
constitution of the Machinists Union, IAM:
Believing that the right of those who toil to enjoy to the full
extent the wealth created by their labor is a natural right, and
realizing that under the changing industrial conditions incident
to the enormous growth of syndicates and other aggregations of
capital it is impossible for those who toil to obtain the full
reward of their labor other than through united action; and
recognizing the fact that those who toil should use their rights
of citizenship intelligently, through organizations founded upon
the class struggle and acting along cooperative, economic, and
political lines, using the natural resources, means of production
and distribution for the benefit of all the people, with the view
of restoring the common wealth to all those performing useful
service to society;
Now, therefore, we, the International Association of Machinists,
pledge ourselves to labor unitedly in behalf of the principles
herein set forth, to perpetuate our association on the basis of
solidarity and justice, to expound its objects, to labor for the
general adoption of its principles, to consistently endeavor to
bring about a higher standard of living among the toiling masses.
Mr. MOULDER. Probably you know Mr. Carlson, that the greatest
enemy of organized labor would be Communist domination. In Soviet
Russia organized labor, as we know it over here where free and
collective bargaining is permitted, labor unions and organization are
prohibited and not tolerated whatsoever in the Soviet Union.
I was trying to distinguish a moment ago as to your cause for
disassociating yourself from the Communist Party. Was it because you
thought the party was a failure; or was it because of the necessity,
for practical purposes--but still retaining in your mind the beliefs in
the Communist Party movement?
I think you should make a clear statement concerning your opposition,
as an American citizen, believing in our American way of life, in
contrast to and against the Communist Party international conspiracy.
Would you care to make any comment on it?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. Mr. Chairman, my only comment on that is that I
don’t believe in the current, popular opinion of the Communist Party. I
don’t believe in that.
Mr. MOULDER. In my opinion, I think it is for your best
interests to take a different position than you are taking.
Mr. CARLSON. Maybe I misunderstand you or you misunderstand
me, Mr. Chairman. I don’t believe in the principle that is commonly
accorded to the Communist Party, that they are subversive. I don’t
want anything to do with that. That they are ready to overthrow the
Government, I don’t believe in that. Certainly not.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. Mr. Chairman, further, if I thought that they
did believe in that, or ever believed in that, I certainly never would
have had anything to do with them, and I would be most bitterly in
opposition.
Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Tavenner, proceed with the interrogation of
the witness.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Carlson, I understood you to say that in
1950 you were not a member of the Communist Party. Is that correct?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. To the best of my knowledge, that is right.
Mr. TAVENNER. But in 1949 you withdrew from the Communist
Party? Is that correct?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. There was no formal act of withdrawal.
Mr. TAVENNER. You did not hand in a written resignation?
Mr. CARLSON. That is right.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did you notify any functionary in the Communist
Party that you were withdrawing from the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I failed to reregister.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. TAVENNER. Did any member of the Communist Party ask you to
reregister, and you refused to do it?
Mr. CARLSON. That I believe, is correct. I did not reregister
purposely; I did not intend to reregister.
But just exactly if that is what happened I am not quite so sure about
that. I mean whether somebody came and asked me to reregister; I don’t
remember. I am not sure about that.
Mr. TAVENNER. Was that in 1949?
Mr. CARLSON. That was about that time. It was at the time of
the----
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. It was right in there, yes.
Mr. TAVENNER. What was the date of the last meeting of the
Communist Party you attended?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I have to invoke the fifth amendment on that.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, I am inclined to think that
the witness, by the answers he has given, has opened the door for
examination of what he knows about Communist Party activities during
the period when he was a member. Therefore, I request that the chairman
direct the witness to answer.
Mr. MOULDER. The Chair directs the witness to answer the
question.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. Will you restate the question?
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you read the question, please?
(The pending question was read by the reporter.)
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I invoke the fifth amendment, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. TAVENNER. How many people composed the group or branch of
the Communist Party to which you belonged?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. The answer is the same, Mr. Chairman, the fifth
amendment.
Mr. MOULDER. The Chair directs the witness to answer the
question.
(There was no response.)
Mr. TAVENNER. What was the name of the unit or group of the
Communist Party of which you were a member?
Mr. CARLSON. I again invoke my rights under the fifth
amendment, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. MOULDER. The Chair directs the witness to answer the
question.
(There was no response.)
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, what the
Communist Party was endeavoring to accomplish in the group of the
Communist Party with which you were affiliated?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I again invoke the fifth amendment, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. MOULDER. The Chair directs the witness to answer the
question.
(There was no response.)
Mr. VELDE. Just a minute. I don’t think the record shows any
answer to that. Do you want the record to show that you do not answer,
that you remain silent?
Mr. CARLSON. I wish to invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, in what activities
did the group of the Communist Party of which you were a member engage?
Mr. CARLSON. I again invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. MOULDER. The Chair directs the witness to answer the
question.
(There was no response.)
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, whether
the Communist Party group with which you were affiliated was organized
within any industry, within any labor union, or whether it was a
street group of the Communist Party, or, sometimes referred to as, a
neighborhood group of the Communist Party?
Mr. CARLSON. Again, on the grounds of possible
self-incrimination I refuse to answer.
Mr. MOULDER. You are directed to answer the question
propounded to you by Mr. Tavenner, counsel for the committee.
Mr. CARLSON. On the grounds of the fifth amendment, I refuse
to answer.
Mr. TAVENNER. Over how long a period of time does your
knowledge of Communist Party activities exist?
Mr. CARLSON. I again invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. MOULDER. You are advised and directed to answer the
question.
(There was no response.)
Mr. TAVENNER. When did you become a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. CARLSON. The answer is the same as the one previous.
Mr. MOULDER. Again the Chair advises and directs you to answer
the question.
(There was no response.)
Mr. TAVENNER. What methods were used by the Communist Party in
order to induce you to become a member?
Mr. CARLSON. I again invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. MOULDER. You are advised and directed to answer the
question.
(There was no response.)
Mr. TAVENNER. You have told the committee that you withdrew
from the Communist Party in 1949. What were the circumstances which led
you to the decision to withdraw from the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I believe, Mr. Chairman, the immediate thing was
the outbreak of the Korean war.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, just how
the outbreak of the Korean war affected you in your decision?
Mr. CARLSON. My opinion, Mr. Chairman, was that that war was
uncalled for. I didn’t agree with it, no more than I agreed with our
participation in it.
Mr. TAVENNER. Do you mean to say that the Communist Party was
in favor of the war, and, therefore, inasmuch as you disagreed with it,
you got out of the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I was against the invasion by the North Koreans
of South Korea. That is my position. I didn’t approve of that at all.
In fact, I don’t approve of war really of any kind.
Mr. TAVENNER. I misunderstood your answer entirely.
You believed that the North Koreans invaded South Korea?
Are you assigning the Korean war as your reason for getting out of the
Communist Party? What I am getting at is: What was the Communist Party
doing about the Korean war with which you disagreed? That is the point
I am trying to develop. (The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I am not really in a position, I don’t think,
to say what the Communist Party did about that. Officially. There was
a period of time when I suppose I was--Well, I don’t know what word
to use--probably losing faith, or disagreeing, or something with the
activities. And that was the real change in my mind. That was the
thing, the straw that broke the camel’s back, you might say.
Mr. TAVENNER. Do you mean the Korean war?
Mr. CARLSON. Yes.
Mr. TAVENNER. What was the Communist Party doing about the
Korean war that made this matter so important it affected your decision
about breaking your connection with the party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. My decision was made right then in my own mind
when that war broke out.
Mr. TAVENNER. I am not talking about the time; I am talking
about what the Communist Party did to create such a situation which
prevented you from continuing as a member of the Communist Party.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. My impression was that they favored the North
Koreans, and I didn’t.
Mr. TAVENNER. How did the Communist Party handle that question
in its meetings?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. TAVENNER. Now actually the Korean war began in June 1950,
didn’t it?
Mr. CARLSON. As near as my recollection, I was thinking it was
1949.
Mr. TAVENNER. And you say you withdrew from the Communist
Party in 1949?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I am sure in my mind that it was in the fall of
1949 that I failed to reregister in the Communist Party.
Mr. TAVENNER. But the only reason you have assigned for your
withdrawal from the Communist Party in 1949 is the Korean war, which
did not begin until nearly a year later.
Now it is rather difficult for the committee, I am sure, to understand
whether or not your reasons for withdrawing from the Communist Party
are being given in good faith.
Mr. CARLSON. Mr. Chairman, I was quite active in my union
and in my shop as a good trade union member, and, to tie one thing
with another, I don’t have anything to go by except that Korean war. I
remember that was about the time.
Mr. TAVENNER. Then you must have been mistaken as to the year
in which you withdrew from the Communist Party.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. That is possible.
Mr. TAVENNER. I would much rather believe that you were
mistaken than believe you are trying to deceive the committee.
Mr. CARLSON. No. That is not the case.
Mr. TAVENNER. The committee has been interested for quite a
period of time in learning all it can about the method used by the
Communist Party to oppose the Korean war. By opposing the Korean war
I mean opposing the foreign policy of the United States in connection
with that war. What position did the Communist Party take with which
you disagreed?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I think it is quite common knowledge that, even
from our daily papers, the Communists did support the North Koreans.
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes; but the daily papers do not tell us what
was done in your particular cell or group of the Communist Party, and
that is what we want to know.
Mr. CARLSON. Well, after that war broke out, Mr. Chairman, I
did not participate. I can’t tell what they done because I don’t know.
Mr. TAVENNER. Then why did you disagree with them if you
didn’t know what they were doing?
Mr. CARLSON. Well, you remember, as history shows--according
to the papers, anyway--that in the time before the First World War
broke out, I remember--it just comes to my mind--the papers printed
that the Communist Party members of France tore up their Communist
cards immediately when Russia signed some sort of a pact with Germany.
You probably recall that in your own mind. I think that is a historical
fact. At least the paper files will show that. I recall it that way.
Now the same situation was mine, although I might add, as I have said
before, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back as far as I am
concerned.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did you attend any meeting of the Communist
Party after you wrote the letter on June 19, 1954, to this committee?
(The witness confers with his counsel).
Mr. TAVENNER. Did you attend any meeting of the Communist
Party after the outbreak of the Korean War?
Mr. CARLSON. Not to the best of my recollection; I don’t
believe so.
Mr. TAVENNER. I understand you will not tell this committee
anything about the activities of the Communist Party during the period
when you were a member. Is that correct?
Mr. CARLSON. Because the answer to those questions might tend
to incriminate me, and, on advise of my counsel, I refuse to answer
those questions.
Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions.
Mr. MOULDER. Any questions?
Mr. VELDE. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Since the witness is unwilling
to give us any of the information which we are certain he has regarding
his activities in the Communist Party while he was a member, possibly
he would tell us what motivated him to get into the Communist Party, to
join the Communist Party in the first place.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. Could I answer that question, Mr. Congressman,
and not go into other questions regarding it?
Mr. VELDE. Yes, certainly. I would like to have you answer.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. I was looking for an answer to the problems that
beset many, many workers besides myself. And I really had a rough time
during the depression.
Mr. VELDE. Did you join the party, then, during the depression?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. CARLSON. My understanding was that if I answered the
previous question there would not be any more regarding that.
Mr. VELDE. I did not understand it that way at all. I am
sorry if you misinterpreted my question. And I don’t mean to treat you
unfairly in any way or try to trap you. It seems to me that if anybody
is being trapped you are being trapped by your own unwillingness to
answer questions that are put to you about your activities in the
Communist Party. I think, Mr. Chairman, the record should show during
the course of the examination by Mr. Tavenner and by you that the
witness has been conferring with his counsel regarding the answers to
the questions.
Mr. MOULDER. The record will reflect conferences with counsel
in that regard.
Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions.
Mr. MOULDER. The witness is excused.
At this time the committee will read a letter which was just received,
addressed to myself as chairman. The letter is from the Musicians’
Association of Seattle, Local 76, A. F. of M.
DEAR SIR: I am distressed to learn that our member, Mrs.
Helen Taverniti, has not made herself available for service of the
subpena from the House Un-American Activities Committee.
I wish to point out that since 1940 the American Federation
of Musicians has persistently carried on a sustained effort
to remove from our membership persons proven to be affiliated
with organizations of a subversive nature. In fact, our bylaws
specifically provide that membership in the Communist Party or any
Communist “front” organization is cause for immediate expulsion
from membership.
The executive board of local 76 has deemed it necessary to send
a registered letter to Mrs. Helen Taverniti at her last known
address, citing her to appear before the board for interrogation
relative to this matter.
Very truly yours,
LESLIE R. MARTIN, _President_.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Margaret Elizabeth Gustafson.
Will you come forward, please.
Mr. MOULDER. Hold up your right hand and be sworn, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I do.
Mr. MOULDER. Be seated.
TESTIMONY OF MARGARET ELIZABETH GUSTAFSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL,
KENNETH A. MacDONALD
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you state your name please?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Margaret Elizabeth Gustafson.
Mr. TAVENNER. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel.
Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. MACDONALD. Kenneth A. MacDonald, a lawyer of the city of
Seattle.
Mr. TAVENNER. When and where were you born, Mrs. Gustafson?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I was born February 9, 1912, in the city of
Seattle.
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you spell your last name, please?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. G-u-s-t-a-f-s-o-n.
Mr. TAVENNER. Where do you now reside?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. In Bremerton, Wash.
Mr. TAVENNER. How are you employed?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. As a schoolteacher.
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, what your
formal educational training has been?
Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I graduated from San Diego State College in
1933, attended Mills for graduate work the following year. I have had
summer school at the Western Washington College of Education, at the
University of Washington, extension courses----
[Illustration:
NORTHWEST LABOR SCHOOL
309 2nd Avenue No.
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