NOVEMBER 19, 1799.

In consequence of many obstacles I had to encounter in

obtaining the delivery of Thomas Nash, late of His

Majesty's ship Hermione, and of the numerous publications

to the northward and in this place, I wrote to Admiral Sir

Hyde Parker, requesting he would be good enough to send me

minutes of the court martial, to which he answered under

date 13th September: "I am to acquaint you that Nash has

been executed agreeably to a court martial, and that he

confessed himself to be an Irishman; and it further

appears, by the Hermione's books, that he was born at

Waterford; on the 21st December, 1792, entered a volunteer

on board the Dover, received £3 bounty money, and was

removed to the Hermione, 28th of January, 1793. And with

respect to transmitting the minutes of his trial, that is

not in my power, but rests with the Lords of the Admiralty

only."

MONDAY, February 10.

_Amy Dardin's Claim for the Horse Romulus._

The petition of Amy Dardin was called up, and after some opposition, on

account of a former reference and decision, was referred to the

Committee of Claims.

THURSDAY, February 13.

_Military Interference in Elections._

Mr. LEIB called up for consideration the following resolution, which he

laid on the table on the 4th instant, viz:

_Resolved_, That a committee be appointed to _bring in a

bill making_ provision for the removal of the regular

troops of the United States which may be stationed where an

election is held, and that such removal shall take place at

least two days previous to such election, and to a distance

not less than two miles.

Mr. OTIS moved to amend the resolution by striking out the words in

_italic_, in the second line, and inserting "inquire into the expediency

of."

A long debate ensued on this motion, in which it was conceded, on all

sides, that the resolution was too definite, and left nothing in the

power of the committee to act on, except merely bringing in a bill

conformable to it. If excesses had been committed by the military at

elections, and they were guilty of improper interference, it seemed to

be the wish of every member that some provision should be made to guard

against them in future; but they were unwilling to say what that

provision should be, until an inquiry were made into the facts stated.

The removal of the troops to the distance mentioned, was also

particularly objected to, as it might leave fortifications, arsenals,

and military stores, for two or three days, entirely unprotected.

Mr. LEIB at length withdrew his original proposition, and submitted the

following, which was adopted without objection, viz:

"_Resolved_, That a committee be appointed to prepare and

report a bill, containing such legislative provisions as

may be judged expedient, either for removing any military

force of the United States, from any place of holding

elections, or for preventing their interference in such

elections."

Mr. MARSHALL, Mr. LEIB and Mr. OTIS, were appointed the committee.

_Amendment to the Constitution._

Mr. LIVINGSTON laid the following joint resolution on the table:

_Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the

United States of America, in Congress assembled_, That the

following article be proposed to the Legislatures of the

several States, as an amendment to the Constitution of the

United States, which, when ratified by three-fourths of

said Legislatures, shall be valid as a part of the said

constitution, viz:

No Judge of any Court of the United States shall, during

his continuance in office, or within six months after he

may have resigned the same, be appointed to any other than

a judiciary office, under the United States.

MONDAY, February 17.

_Case of Jonathan Robbins._

Mr. RUTLEDGE said, he had expected that some order would have been taken

on the Message of the President, before this time, by the gentleman who

called for it; but as he had been disappointed, he would now give notice

to the honorable member from New York that he would call for some order

upon the Message to-morrow.

Mr. LIVINGSTON said, the gentleman had momentarily anticipated him; he

meant to have moved for a reference to a Committee of the whole House

this morning, with an intention to introduce certain resolutions, and he

would now make that motion.

The question on commitment was put and carried--yeas 50, nays 43; and

was made the order of the day for Friday.

Mr. BAYARD then laid the following resolution on the table, which was

read and referred to the above committee, viz:

_Resolved_, That the conduct of the Executive Government of

the United States, in relation to the requisition made by

his Britannic Majesty's Minister, of the delivery up to

justice of Thomas Nash, otherwise called Jonathan Robbins,

upon the charge of murder, committed on board of the

Hermione British frigate, which said Nash had sought an

asylum within the United States, was conformable to the

duty of the Government, and to the obligations of good

faith stipulated in the 27th article of the Treaty of

Amity, Commerce, and Navigation, made with Great Britain.

THURSDAY, February 20.

_Case of Jonathan Robbins._

Mr. LIVINGSTON proposed the following resolutions:

"_Resolved_, That it appears to this House that a person,

calling himself Jonathan Robbins, and claiming to be a

citizen of the United States, impressed on board a British

ship-of-war, was committed for trial in one of the courts

of the United States for the alleged crime of piracy and

murder, committed on the high seas, on board the British

frigate Hermione: That a requisition being, subsequent to

such commitment, made by the British Minister to the

Executive of the United States, for the delivery of the

said person (under the name of Thomas Nash) as a fugitive,

under the 27th article of the Treaty with Great Britain,

the President of the United States did, by a letter written

from the Department of State to the Judge who committed the

said person for trial, officially declare his opinion to

the said Judge that he 'considered an offence committed on

board a public ship of war on the high seas to have been

committed within the jurisdiction of the nation to whom the

ship belongs;' and, in consequence of such opinion and

instruction, did advise and request the said Judge to

deliver up the person so claimed to the agent of Great

Britain, who should appear to receive him, provided only

that the stipulated evidence of his criminality should be

produced. That in compliance with such advice and request

of the President of the United States, the said person so

committed for trial was, by the Judge of the District of

South Carolina, without any presentment or trial by jury,

or any investigation of his claim to be a citizen of the

United States, delivered up to an officer of his Britannic

Majesty, and afterwards tried by a court martial, and

executed on a charge of mutiny and murder.

"_Resolved_, That inasmuch as the Constitution of the

United States declares that the Judiciary Power shall

extend to all questions arising under the Constitution,

laws, and treaties, of the United States, and to all cases

of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction: and, also, that the

trial of all crimes (except in cases of impeachment) shall

be by jury; and that such trial shall be held in the State

where such crime shall have been committed; but when not

committed within any State, then at such place or places as

Congress may by law have directed; and inasmuch as it is

directed by law that the offence of murder committed on the

high seas shall be deemed to be piracy and murder, and that

'all crimes committed on the high seas, or in any place out

of the jurisdiction of any particular State, shall be tried

in the district where the offender is apprehended, or into

which he may be first brought:' therefore the several

questions, whether the alleged crime of piracy and murder

was committed within the exclusive jurisdiction of Great

Britain; whether it comes within the purview of the said

twenty-seventh article; and whether a person stating that

he was an American citizen, and had committed the act of

which he was accused in attempting to regain his liberty

from illegal imprisonment, ought to be delivered up,

without any investigation of his claims to citizenship, or

inquiry into the facts alleged in his defence, are all

matters exclusively of judicial inquiry as arising from

treaties, laws, constitutional provisions, and cases of

admiralty and maritime jurisdiction.

"_Resolved_, That the decision of those questions by the

President of the United States, against the jurisdiction of

the courts of the United States, in a case where those

courts had already assumed and exercised jurisdiction: and

his advice and request to the Judge of the district court

that the person thus charged should be delivered up,

provided only such evidence of his criminality should be

produced as would justify his apprehension and commitment

for trial, are a dangerous interference of the Executive

with Judicial decisions; and that the compliance with such

advice and request on the part of the Judge of the District

Court of South Carolina, is a sacrifice of the

Constitutional independence of the Judicial power, and

exposes the administration thereof to suspicion and

reproach."

The question of reference to the Committee of the Whole was taken and

carried--yeas 55.

The House then adjourned.

FRIDAY, February 21.

_Eulogium on the Character of Washington._

A message was received from the Senate informing the House that the

Senate had this day come to the following resolution, viz:

"_Resolved_, That the Senate will to-morrow, at half past

12 o'clock, meet in the Senate Chamber, and from thence

walk in procession to the church in Race street, to hear

the eulogium to be pronounced on the character of General

Washington."

Ordered to lie on the table.

The SPEAKER said he was requested, by a member of the Catholic church,

to inform the House that seats were provided for the accommodation of

such members as would please to attend to hear the delivery of the

oration to-morrow.

Mr. RUTLEDGE said, before the receipt of the message from the Senate, he

had intended to move that when the House adjourn they do adjourn till

Monday; but the Senate having informed the House that they intended to

walk in procession, he conceived this House ought to come to a similar

resolution, and moved the following:

"_Resolved_, That the House of Representatives will meet

to-morrow, at half-past 12 o'clock, at their Chamber, and

from thence walk in procession to the church in Race

street, to hear the eulogium there to be pronounced on the

character of General Washington."

It was objected to this resolution, that it had not been contemplated

this House would walk in procession, no arrangement having been made for

that purpose; and that as it might be the wish of several members to

attend the oration at the Catholic Church in preference to the one in

Race street, it ought to be left to their own option.

The question on the resolution was put and negatived--yeas 40, nays 43.

MONDAY, February 24.

_Western Lands._

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the report

made the 18th instant, by the committee appointed to inquire whether

any, and, if any, what, alterations are necessary in the laws providing

for the sale of the lands of the United States north-west of the Ohio;

and, after some time spent therein, the committee rose and reported

several resolutions thereupon; which were severally twice read, and

agreed to by the House, as follows:

_Resolved_, That all the townships directed to be sold, either in

quarter townships or in tracts of one mile square, by the act "providing

for the sale of the lands of the United States, in the Territory

north-west of the river Ohio, and above the mouth of Kentucky River,"

shall be subdivided into half sections, containing, as nearly as may be,

three hundred and twenty acres each: the additional expense of surveying

to be paid by the purchaser, at the rate of three dollars per tract.

_Resolved_, That all the said lands shall be offered for sale at public

sale, in tracts of three hundred and twenty acres as above directed:

_Provided_, That the same shall not be sold under the price of two

dollars per acre, and that the sale shall be at the following places, to

wit:

All the lands contained in the seven first ranges of townships, and

north of the same, shall be offered for sale at Pittsburg.

All the lands contained in the eight next ranges of townships, shall be

offered for sale at Marietta.

All the lands lying west of the fifteen first ranges of townships, and

east of the Sciota River, shall be offered for sale at Chillicothe.

All the lands lying below the Great Miami shall be offered for sale at

Cincinnati.

_Resolved_, That one or more land offices shall be opened in the

North-western Territory, and that every person be permitted to locate

and purchase, at the rate of two dollars per acre, one or more of the

half sections that shall not have been sold at public sale.

_Resolved_, That the payments for lands purchased either at public or

private sale, may be made as heretofore in public securities, and shall

be made in the following manner, and under the following conditions,

viz:

1st. At the time of purchase, every purchaser shall deposit

one-twentieth part of the amount of purchase-money; to be forfeited, if,

within three months, one-fourth of the purchase-money, including the

said twentieth part, is not paid.

2d. One-fourth of the purchase-money to be paid as aforesaid, within

three months, and the other three-fourths in three equal payments,

within two, three, and four years, respectively, after the date of the

purchase.

3d. No interest to be charged in case of punctual payment; but interest

at the rate of six per cent. a year, to be charged from the date of

purchase, on any part of the purchase-money which shall not have been

paid at the time, respectively, when the same shall have become due.

4th. A discount at the rate of eight per cent. a year, to be allowed on

any of the three last payments, which shall be paid before the same

shall have become due.

5th. If any tract shall not be completely paid for within one year after

the date of the last payment, the tract to be sold in such manner as

shall be provided by law; and after paying the balance due to the

United States, including interest, the surplus, if any, to be returned

to the original purchaser.

_Ordered_, That a bill or bills be brought in, pursuant to the said

resolutions; and that Mr. HARRISON, Mr. BRACE, Mr. GORDON, Mr. DAVIS,

Mr. LYMAN, and Mr. GALLATIN, do prepare and bring in the same.

TUESDAY, February 25.

_Case of Jonathan Robbins._

The House having resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the

Message of the PRESIDENT respecting Jonathan Robbins, a short debate

took place whether the committee should take up the business of the

resolution first proposed by Mr. BAYARD, or those subsequently offered

by Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. BAYARD seemed inclined to withdraw his motion,

but the committee seeming of opinion that both resolutions were within

their jurisdiction, and that they might proceed on either, the question

was taken whether the committee would proceed on the resolutions of Mr.

LIVINGSTON and carried in the affirmative.[49] Messrs. BAYARD, RUTLEDGE,

OTIS, &c., voting in favor of the question, and Messrs. LIVINGSTON,

NICHOLAS, &c., against it.

Mr. LIVINGSTON then entered upon an argument in support of the

resolutions which he had some days before submitted to the House, and

which now were taken up. Soon after he began the discussion, he was

proceeding to read a deposition of Jonathan Robbins, and certificates

accompanying the same, to prove himself a citizen of the United States,

in which the deponent swore, before the court of South Carolina, that he

was born at Danbury in the State of Connecticut, and that he was

impressed from on board the American brig Betsey, by the crew of the

British frigate, about two years before, where he was detained contrary

to his will until the mutiny occurred.

Mr. BAYARD opposed the reference to a fact so incompetently

authenticated as the report of a case upon newspaper testimony,

especially when, if it had been the desire of the gentleman to have

introduced it as evidence, it was extremely easy to have procured the

record of the court before he proceeded on his allegations. If such

evidence as this was to be admitted, other and perhaps more important

evidence might next be introduced to impose on the committee. Besides,

it certainly must be looked upon as _ex parte_ evidence, which it was

impossible to repel. Mr. B. submitted to the Chair whether it would be

in order to admit any fresh evidence to support the resolutions, when

all the documents which had been asked for, and which had come to the

knowledge of the Executive, had been submitted to the House.

Mr. GALLATIN, on the question of order, contended for the admission:

this document, he said, was referred to as authentic, in his letter. He

says, "That, by the proceedings before that judge, (Bee,) as they have

been published, it appears that a seaman named Thomas Nash did assume

the name of Jonathan Robbins, and make oath that he was a native of the

State of Connecticut," &c. Certainly it cannot be deemed improper to

refer to the identical document there mentioned. If it was proper for

the Secretary of State to make the allusion, the House could take it up

under the same idea. He did not think it was introduced as evidence

before the committee.

Mr. DANA said he was very sorry the gentleman had been interrupted; he

could not think of admitting it as evidence, but the gentleman might

read it as part of his speech, which perhaps might otherwise have a

chasm in it.

Mr. LIVINGSTON said he did wish to read this paper as part of his

speech; and he believed it a very material part, because it was a

justification of a point which he wished to establish; he wished to show

the committee that Jonathan Robbins claimed to be an American citizen,

and that he said he was impressed. This he swore to in court; and that

he did so, he hoped would be admitted. He said he only introduced it

with this view. Surely he could not be so far mistaken in his law

knowledge as to be thought to have said that the culprit could be

evidence in his own behalf. If _he did say_ he was a citizen, then the

matter, upon examination, must appear more serious than gentlemen would

be willing to think.

Mr. BAYARD had no doubt but it was the gentleman's intention to impress

the force of the facts contained in that paper upon the minds of that

committee; and to suppose it would have no impression would be absurd.

It would afterwards be said that this man was admitted to be an

impressed American citizen, and that he was praiseworthy in committing

what would then be called the homicide. The decision of the committee

would be much affected, he said, by the kind of evidence which was

adduced. If this was admitted, it would be impossible to ascertain the

extent of the principle. Other depositions may be produced--indeed, he

had no doubt but the gentleman could get proof to any point which he

might think it material to ascertain. In saying this, he did not mean to

insinuate that any improper steps would be taken by that gentleman, but

there were volunteers enough to be found who would step forward in

order to answer a party purpose, and make oath of any thing.

Mr. LIVINGSTON supposed he should increase the astonishment of gentlemen

still more when he declared that he did not believe a word of the

affidavit; but he believed Nash was an Irishman, and that he entered on

board and committed all the crimes charged to him. It was clear that

this affidavit could not be evidence. In admitting this, he believed he

did not surrender one point of the resolutions; he should prove that all

which he wished to ascertain was that such _claim_ was made to the

court.

Mr. BAYARD asked where could be the necessity of proving a fact which

every member of the House was willing to admit. All acknowledged that

Nash _claimed_ to be an American citizen; but perhaps the wish of the

gentleman was to have additional light on this subject, on which account

he introduced the deposition. But, Mr. B. said, he was willing only to

proceed upon what the House knew from the documents before them, and not

take a step on precarious ground. It must be well known what the

gentleman wanted to get this admission for; he no doubt wished to prove

that, upon his own mere suggestion, he was an American citizen, and that

he was impressed--he was entitled to a trial by jury in this country,

and on that account the act of sending him away was unconstitutional.

This would lead to an extensive field of argument. If there was any

necessity for more evidence, or to call witnesses to the bar of the

House, let proper measures be taken to procure them, but let them not

come forward in any other way.

Mr. DANA read the resolution first offered to the House for a call for

papers relative to Jonathan Robbins; this was answered, he said, by the

Secretary of State, that no requisition or proceedings had been had in

that name; but he presumed allusion was made to the case of Thomas Nash,

concerning whom proceedings were had in the District Court of South

Carolina; in that way, and that only, the Secretary made reference to

the printed report. In this blundering way, Mr. D. said, the business

was begun. [He was called to order.] In addition to this, he said, the

proceedings of gentlemen were erroneous; but, notwithstanding that, Mr.

D. said, he would gratify the feelings of the gentleman, as far as his

vote would go, for him to read it, but only as part of his speech. No

doubt he wished to support some point of his argument by it, and in that

view he had a right to read it; but that it was evidence, he denied.

The CHAIRMAN having stated his reasons, concluded with an opinion that

the member could not proceed to read the affidavit.

Mr. GALLATIN appealed to the committee from the decision of the Chair;

when there appeared 39 in favor of the decision, and 48 against it.

At this point the committee rose, and had leave to sit again.

WEDNESDAY, February 26.

_Case of Jonathan Robbins._

Mr. DAVIS moved that the Committee of the whole House be discharged from

the further consideration of the resolutions proposed by Mr. LIVINGSTON

and Mr. BAYARD, on the affair of Jonathan Robbins. The small progress,

Mr. D. said, which was made yesterday in the discussion, fully convinced

his mind that nothing at all would be done in it; besides, were he

convinced that the subject would be impartially conducted, he did not

know of any possible good that could arise from the adoption of the

resolutions. If there had been any error in the proceedings of the

Executive, he conceived that error would correct itself. If there was an

improper interference, he was certain it could not have arisen from

improper motives, and therefore he sincerely hoped he should not be

called upon to give an opinion on the subject. Nor, on the other hand,

was he at all prepared to compliment the Executive, or any officer of

the Government, for having done what he thought to be right. If he had

done right, it was his duty. He did not think it of any great

importance; but, most assuredly, if the argument was extended, it would

be made a case of much importance. It was better, however, to let the

case of Jonathan Robbins sleep in the Committee of the Whole, where it

then was. He was not prepared to criminate, nor was he prepared to

applaud.

Mr. RANDOLPH said, that no gentleman had a higher respect for the

motives of the gentleman from Kentucky than himself; but, however

disagreeable it might be, he must differ from him in his present

opinion. He really hoped the gentleman would reconsider the motion he

had made, and not stop the gentleman from New York in this early stage

of the business. If there were any defects in the papers, and their

authenticity was questionable, it must not arise from the gentleman from

New York, but from those whose duty it was to furnish all the facts

relative to the subject. He was obliged to read a printed paper, because

those with whom the authoritative copies are, have not thought proper to

furnish the House with them. He hoped, if a stop was put to the

proceedings, it would not be to discharge the committee, but to call for

authentic copies of all the papers within the reach of the Government.

It must be acknowledged that the man whose case the House are

considering did put in his claims to citizenship, and to the protection

of his country on that account. If that acknowledgment is refused on

account of the paper which has been produced being a newspaper,

reference must be made to what is within the reach of the House--more

authentic papers.

Mr. H. LEE considered the motion would have the complete effect any

gentleman could wish whose desire it was to reprobate the conduct of the

Administration of our Government. How could the motion be necessary--how

be useful? If they were to ask more evidence, said Mr. L., I would vote

for it to be produced; they have brought the subject before the

House--let us see it in the purest colors which it can be placed in. We

are ready to meet them here; we are willing they should have every

evidence that can be obtained to elucidate their charge; but let not the

Executive be hung up to reproach without a trial; let not suspicion be

encouraged, which must have all the effects of a substantiated charge. I

wish them to go on with the discussion, that all the truth may be

disclosed, and every fair light be given which the case will bear; for

now the people of the United States have their eyes fixed upon our

proceedings on this important question.

Mr. MACON was in favor of the motion. If the Committee of the Whole was

not to be discharged, he hoped at least the subject would be postponed

till the public business of the session was over; there were many public

bills, he said, that must be passed. The House was called upon to judge

with almost no testimony, and yet upon this uncertain ground, perhaps a

whole week might be spent of the most precious time of the House; for if

the House was to rise at the time proposed, the loss of this time would

certainly be felt.

As to the impression it would leave on the minds of the people, they had

as many facts to judge from as the House, and they certainly would form

an opinion, whether the House did so, or not. Gentlemen were very much

mistaken, he said, if they undertook to lead the people; they would

think, and they would show what their judgment was when a proper time

came for that purpose. The time the people would take to show their

approbation or disapprobation of the measures of the Administration was

at elections, and then they would do it.

Mr. DANA was against the postponement of the subject, or the rising of

the committee. It was to be recollected that the business had assumed

its present shape only in consequence of the zeal of the gentleman from

New York, and his coadjutors, to censure the Executive. On the 7th of

February, it was committed to the whole House; contrary to the opinion

of a number of gentlemen, who wished the facts investigated by a select

committee; thirteen days then elapsed before he had prepared his

resolutions--resolutions not calculated to make an inquiry into the

conduct of the Executive, but expressive of the most pungent censure

upon his conduct. These resolutions were produced upon the papers which,

at the desire of those gentlemen, were submitted to the House. The only

question then, is, Do the papers upon which those resolutions are

predicated warrant the censure contained in them, or not?--It certainly

would be a high reproach to the very idea of a public inquisition to

admit more evidence upon those grounds. Still, however, let gentlemen go

on in their heterogeneous proceedings, the House would have the wisdom

justly to appreciate the various attempts made to clear themselves of a

predicament in which their over-arduous attempts to censure had thrown

them.

Mr. LIVINGSTON conceived it his duty to answer the observations of the

gentleman from Connecticut, (Mr. DANA,) as to the resolutions being

founded upon the facts then before the House. He did not think the facts

were precisely sufficient to warrant every idea contained in the

resolutions. When the original call for papers was agreed to by the

House, he had hoped that something more authentic than newspaper

testimony would have been referred to by the Executive; and upon that he

was now compelled to act, if at all. The gentleman has said that my zeal

and that of my coadjutors, to censure the Executive, has brought us into

this situation. Who, sir, I would ask the gentleman, are my coadjutors?

That gentleman himself was my coadjutor, and every gentleman in the

House, because the resolution was adopted. The House directed the

inquiry, and every gentleman must therefore take the burden, in part,

with me.

Mr. CRAIK said, that very early in this business he thought the House

were entering into it very improperly, either having nothing at all to

do with it, or else taking wrong measures, if they had; he thought then,

and was yet of opinion, that if the object was to impeach the President,

measures ought to have been taken accordingly. He never did look upon

the House of Representatives as having either the power to censure or to

approbate the conduct of the Executive, and, therefore, he equally

disapproved of the resolutions of the gentlemen from New York and

Delaware; and, upon that ground, he felt strongly inclined to vote with

the gentleman from Kentucky for giving the whole subject the go by, and

getting clear of it by any possible means.

Mr. HARPER agreed with the gentleman, that it would be folly for the

House to spend time in useless discussion, which could lead to no

decision; but, viewing this resolution as he did, he must conclude it of

more importance; he thought it the direct road to an impeachment of the

President of the United States, and, if so, surely it must appear

important. The resolution declared, in express terms, that the Executive

had exercised unconstitutional powers--one of the most dangerous crimes

that he could commit. If he had so exercised his power, the inevitable

consequence must be, that the President of the United States must be

impeached by this House. Then, how could any gentleman say this was a

trifling question, and one with which the House had nothing at all to

do? Certainly no question can be more important.

Mr. RUTLEDGE regretted that he could not join with his friend from

Maryland, (Mr. CRAIK,) in thinking this consideration useless; he

believed the attention of the people had been called to view this

subject, and they were anxiously looking for a decision in some way.

Neither did he think, with his honorable friend, that the House had

nothing to do with it, because no impeachment could grow out of it. It

was impossible to say what the gentleman meditated in his resolutions,

but one thing was certain, if the gentleman has wished to promote an

impeachment, he could not have taken a more direct means for it, if the

resolutions should be carried.

Mr. KITCHELL thought no good could arise from the investigation of this

subject, because he did not know what was to be done in it, let the

decision be what it might. The gentleman from South Carolina (Mr.

HARPER) wished to have an opportunity of showing that every part of the

resolution was built on false ground. Every gentleman in the House was

not so fond of speaking nor of hearing as was that gentleman, and he

hoped, merely on that account, that the House would not spend time on

what (in his opinion) could not possibly lead to impeachment. What

effect could a discussion have, but to show the world that there were

_parties_ in the House, and to raise a rancorous disposition? He did not

know what there was in the resolution that could lead to an impeachment,

nor did he know what the House, in their censorial capacity, had to do

but to impeach. He believed it out of the power of the House to applaud.

In short, he did not think they had any thing to do with it.

Mr. NICHOLAS hoped the discussion would proceed. Although there might

not be sufficient ground on which to impeach the Executive, he could not

agree that, therefore, no inquiry ought to be made into his conduct;

there might be an error in his conduct, and yet no impeachment be

necessary to be raised out of it; and, if so, it would be extremely

wrong to suffer it to go out to the world without a decision, after the

subject had once been taken up by the House. Where there might be no bad

intention or wicked design, the action might be of a dangerous tendency,

and proper to be inquired into, in order to express an opinion

thereupon. Mr. N. said he was well pleased that his opinion, that the

motion ought to be negatived, accorded with that of the gentleman from

South Carolina, because it would afford him an opportunity of showing

what he said he could show.

Mr. BAYARD had no doubt of the competency of the House either to

impeach, to censure, or to approbate the conduct of the Executive, and

of course both the resolutions were in their power.

Several gentlemen had intimated that the authentic evidence and the

whole of the documents were not before the House, and that the Executive

Department was to blame for the deficiency. It appeared that the

gentleman himself had forgotten the import of his resolution; it called

for such documents as might be in possession of the Department of State.

Now, what could possibly be in possession of that Department? The

President of the United States had his duties to perform, and the judge

of the district his duties; each had their separate documents; and, as

neither interfered with the other, therefore, it could not be expected

to be in the power of the President to furnish the papers belonging to

the courts of South Carolina, any further than they came within the

joint duties of both. Agreeably to treaty, the British Consul made a

requisition for the person; a copy of this, and the several letters and

instructions, were sent to the House, but it was not in the power of the

Executive to order the judge to furnish him with a record of the

proceedings; he was not bound to furnish it if the President had called

for it, and no doubt he had furnished the House with every paper in his

possession.

Mr. OTIS said, when first the motion was made by the gentleman from

Kentucky, he felt for a moment inclined to lean to it; the motives of

that gentleman appeared to be so candid and liberal, that, for the

moment, Mr. O. confessed, his feelings got the better of his reason. But

a short reflection induced him to change an opinion thus hastily formed,

and he felt satisfied that to vote with him, would be to display, in the

conduct of gentlemen who wished to support the Administration of this

country, worse than censure. He joined that gentleman in regret that it

had gone so far, but certainly it was a subject of the most irritating

nature possible: a charge the most serious; a breach of law by the

Executive Magistrate, who is bound to support it and see it carried into

effect. It is certainly a charge of much importance, and however

disagreeable it might feel to him, Mr. O. said, he must vote that every

argument should be used that could possibly tend to substantiate the

charge, that nothing of truth might be hidden.

Mr. O. said he did not know to what points the evidence required by the

gentleman from New York could apply, except it was to that of his being

an American citizen, and of his being impressed. An affidavit was

produced to prove these facts, but it would be found from an examination

of the documents that nothing relating to those points was in the office

of the Department of State; for the date of the affidavit of Robbins is

the 25th of July, but the order of the Secretary of State bears date the

5th of June, so that no papers as to his claim can be in the possession

of that department. Mr. O. thought the documents before the House

contained every thing that was important to the point.

Mr. CRAIK was sorry that gentlemen who advocated this motion should be

charged with an opposition to the administration of Government; he

believed his conduct had heretofore evinced a different line of conduct.

He still denied that the mode taken by the resolution could lead to

impeachment. It certainly did contain a very great censure, and one

which the House had no authority to inflict.

Mr. GALLATIN considered the motion to be grounded on two ideas; that

there was not sufficient foundation for the House to act upon, and

therefore that it was necessary to discharge the committee, or postpone

the subject for want of further evidence.

It is clear, said Mr. G., that the evidence is not sufficient to impeach

the District Judge of South Carolina. If an impeachment of him was the

object, it would be impossible to carry it forward without an

authoritative copy of the record of the court; but if there was no

intention to impeach, he did not think there was any material evidence

wanted in order to decide upon the resolution, since it only meant an

implication of censure upon the Executive and the District Judge, and

not impeachment.

Mr. G. agreed there was at first sight some weight in the sentiment

expressed by the gentleman from Maryland, (Mr. CRAIK,) that the House

had only a power to impeach but not to censure; but certainly, when it

was considered that an act might be committed without any ill motive,

and yet the act be injurious, it could not be the subject of

impeachment, but it might be of censure. The same act committed with a

criminal motive would be impeachable, which without it would be of a

nature not to admit of it.

Again: Mr. G. thought that though the House might have ground whereupon

to censure, they ought not, at any time; but they had exercised that

power. They had in a number of cases approved of the conduct of the

President, and if the act of approbation had been done, they surely had

as much power to disapprove and censure.

The question was then taken on the motion to discharge the Committee of

the Whole from the further consideration, and negatived--yeas 14, nays

76.

THURSDAY, February 27.

Another member, to wit, JOHN SMITH, from New York, appeared, produced

his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat.

_Case of Jonathan Robbins._

Mr. DAVIS said, as the House had yesterday thought proper to negative a

proposition to discharge the Committee of the Whole from the further

consideration of the business, and as one great motive for that motion

was the incompetency of evidence before the House, and as he knew it was

in the power of the House to procure that evidence by a proper

application, he hoped gentlemen would now indulge him in the adoption of

the following, which he moved, viz:

_Resolved_, That the President of the United States be

requested to direct the proper officer to lay before this

House a copy of the proceedings of the court held in the

district of South Carolina, in the case of Thomas Nash,

calling himself Jonathan Robbins.

Mr. BAYARD said, if he was persuaded, or if the gentleman could convince

him that there was any particular evidence in the hands of any officer

that would tend to throw such light as to give the least explanation to

the case, he certainly would be willing to accord with the resolution;

but he believed every necessary fact was before the House, and this had

been acknowledged by several gentlemen. If the object was to prove that

Nash was an American citizen, and that he was impressed, that could not

be necessary as it respected the resolutions of the gentleman from New

York, for that gentleman himself had acknowledged that he believed no

such thing, but that the whole claim was falsehood. Would the gentleman,

then, inform the House what point he wished to ascertain, or in what he

expected additional proof? He wished information, farther, who was the

"proper officer" to whom reference was expected to be made. There are

but two officers at all in view, one is the Secretary of State, the

other the District Judge of South Carolina; the gentleman could not

suppose that the Judge would be able to transmit the records of that

court previous to the adjournment of the House; and if it could be

obtained, no evidence to the point could be expected from him. If, on

the other hand, it was meant to call on the Secretary of State, it was

not to be expected, from the nature of the case, that any more documents

were in his hands than those already furnished; he had given copies of

the correspondence and requisition, which, it might be fairly inferred,

from the nature of his office, was all of which he could be possessed.

But if any gentleman doubted this fact, he could apply to the office of

the Secretary of State, from whom he could procure whatever was in his

possession.

If it was the intention of the House to close this very disagreeable

business in the present session, they must negative the resolution and

let the discussion go forward. The gentleman who brought forward the

resolution ought to have been provided with every document that was

necessary to support the charges, before he suffered them to appear.

However, he did not think but the gentleman who proposed the resolutions

thought his grounds were quite sufficient to support them.

Mr. NICHOLAS said he always believed that the testimony was incomplete,

but when he heard a gentleman get up and mention particular testimony

which he considered so important that without it he should not know how

to vote, whatever, Mr. N. said, might have been his former satisfaction

as to the establishment of the points, he certainly must now be inclined

to grant gentlemen every point of evidence that they should think

necessary, if within the reach of the House.

One particular piece of testimony had been mentioned, viz: that the man

had filed an affidavit that he was an American citizen and was impressed

on board a British man-of-war. Could any gentleman pretend to say that

no inference might be drawn from this source and the concomitant facts?

The gentleman from New York, to be sure, had declared his satisfaction

with the facts that had been produced to the House, but did the

gentleman from Delaware know that this was the case with any other

gentleman in the House? That gentleman's conclusions and impressions

were not to be taken as the opinions of others, nor were others obliged

to be satisfied because he was; and therefore to couple others in a

measure to which they were not privy, and to ascribe opinions to them

which they had not expressed, was at least unfair.

Mr. DANA thought this a most extraordinary resolution indeed? Was the

President of the United States the clerk of the court, to keep the

records of it? What had the President to do with the proceedings of that

court? It was certainly a total departure from all the forms of judicial

proceedings to suppose a thing of the kind. The gentlemen must certainly

have mistaken the situation held by the President, or they would never

have made such a vast departure from order and propriety of proceeding.

The President is not the public accuser; he is not to be called upon for

papers with which he has nothing to do. When he found gentlemen

outraging every thing that belonged to judicial propriety; when he found

them stumbling into error after error, and departing totally from all

jurisprudential propriety, Mr. D. said, he could not avoid rising to

oppose it.

Mr. LIVINGSTON said he did hope that this motion would not have been

brought forward; but as he meant to vote in favor of it, after having

declared his satisfaction with the documents, as sufficient to support

his resolutions, he should be accused of advocating a question of which

he had before spoken apparently differently, unless he should now give

his reasons; and lest he should be accused of a desire to keep alive a

calumny against the President of the United States, an effect which had

been stated, he took opportunity to answer the insinuation by saying

that he as much abhorred so mean a principle as any gentleman in the

House.

Mr. MARSHALL said, it was with no inconsiderable regret that he

perceived so much of the time of the House, which ought to be devoted to

more beneficial purposes, employed in preliminary discussion. He thought

that it was impossible the House could agree to a postponement, which

the motion under consideration must cause when it was reflected how much

time must be employed in procuring those papers--it could not take less

than a month; for they could only be found, he would presume to say in

the Court of the District of South Carolina: it was therefore scarcely

to be expected that they could be obtained until just before the rising

of the House, a period, if they arrived before the House rose, too late

for their consideration.

Mr. BAYARD said he could not distinguish between the present motion and

one yesterday negatived, because it must operate as a discharge upon the

Committee of the whole House. There could be no doubt but the Secretary

of State had furnished all the papers relative to the business in his

possession--indeed, he could assuredly say so. He said he held in his

hand a letter from the Secretary of State, in answer to one from an

honorable member of the House inquiring whether there were any more

documents in his office; he answered that he had no certified copy

whatever but those which he had furnished the President with, from whom

they came to the House. Gentlemen must then perceive that the mere

operation of this resolution was an absolute and inevitable postponement

of the business till another session. Many gentlemen, who were yesterday

ashamed to vote for a postponement, would now have a plausible cover for

their vote by calling for additional proof, to accomplish the object of

the resolution of yesterday; and thus he feared it would have many

advocates, but, however specious the pretext, he hoped it would not be

carried.

Mr. RUTLEDGE conceived this motion to be the same as to postpone the

business. Further information was wanted, and that information could

alone come from South Carolina. He wished the gentleman from Kentucky

would read the resolution before he pressed his motion: he would find

that the District Judge was not charged; no, it was only a charge

against the Executive; there was not a word of irregularity of

proceeding in the Court, but the Executive was seriously charged.

Mr. DAVIS explained. He said his objects were to have the record in

order to see whether Robbins did produce a certificate that he was an

American citizen; to see a copy of the warrant by which he was

committed; and thirdly, to know what stratagem or what proceedings were

used to take him out of the cognizance of the Court, where he must have

remained, if the President had not interfered. These things he wished to

ascertain, but that would be impossible without the court record.

Mr. RUTLEDGE said, he conceived this to be the object, but he by no

means thought that the gentleman would be satisfied on these points,

were he to be possessed of the record. The gentleman might inquire the

reasons for the Executive and Judicial conduct being as it was, but

perhaps he would not receive the information. Every gentleman in the

House would unite their vote to procure all the testimony within their

reach, so as to enable the House to prosecute the business. We know,

said Mr. R., what monstrous clamor has been raised about this business;

we know that great pains have been taken to make the people believe that

their fellow-citizen has been torn from his country; that he has been

impressed into a foreign service; that the treaty has been violated;

that their fellow-citizen has been taken to a foreign country, and there

been tried in a summary manner and executed. We have been told for

months past that this business would be inquired into; we wish not to

avoid it; we will by all means in our power assist it; we have done it.

Some time since papers were asked for, we agreed with gentlemen that

they should be furnished; it was done, and they are now on your table.

They have been there many days; so that gentlemen had sufficient time,

long before this, to have known whether they were satisfied or not. The

gentleman himself who brought forward the resolutions affected to be

satisfied, but, in compliance with the wish of his friends, he now

wishes to postpone it. We want to bring the matter to a decision, and so

far as we can accommodate gentlemen and avoid delay we will do it.

Mr. NICHOLSON rose to correct what he considered a mistake in the

gentleman last up, (Mr. RUTLEDGE,) when he said that the Executive only

was implicated in the resolutions; he conceived that the District Judge

of South Carolina was implicated, and that the papers of that court were

necessary to examine the conduct of that judge. He read the resolution,

and contended that his deduction was accurate. Mr. N. said he wanted to

know whether the District Judge of South Carolina had committed this man

for trial; this would appear or be disproved by the warrant.

That the President of the United States was not to be considered as the

servant of that House, he was willing to admit, but he did not think

that the President might, with propriety, apply to the judge of the

district for the documents of the court; and he did not believe that the

President would object to make the application. However, the object he

presumed was to procure the papers, no matter from whom; that being the

object, he hoped the mover of the resolution would withdraw it, in order

to accommodate it more to the feelings of some members in the House, by

adopting something like the following:

_Resolved_, That the Speaker of the House of

Representatives be requested to procure, from the Clerk of

the District Court of South Carolina, copies, under seal,

of the proceedings of that court, together with the

evidence produced in the case relative to the requisition

for Thomas Nash, alias Jonathan Robbins, who was delivered

to His Britannic Majesty's Consul.

Mr. DAVIS withdrew his resolution, and Mr. NICHOLAS moved the

substitute, which was now before the House.

Mr. HARPER moved a postponement of this resolution to this day week. The

object of the resolution which was before the Committee of the Whole was

twofold--a charge on the President, and a charge on the District Judge.

So much as related to the President of the United States, it was

manifest that the testimony called for by this resolution could have no

effect whatever upon him, because he left the whole to the judge. The

President went no further than to declare that if it should appear that

the acts committed by this man came within the purview of the British

Treaty, the man ought to be delivered up conformably to that

stipulation.

Mr. NICHOLAS thought, with the gentleman last up, that if the only

inquiry was as to the conduct of the President, or if the inquiry was

only to respect the judge, the papers might be dispensed with; but it

was otherwise--the conduct of both was called forth to view by the

resolutions, but how far the conduct of either may be reprehensible,

depended on the testimony which might appear before the House. It was

impossible to say what the President had done until the documents should

be seen. If gentlemen refused the inquiry being made of the court in

South Carolina, they, by that act, made the President answerable for

every part of the facts, which he believed they would not pretend to do.

He really believed it extremely important to know what steps had been

taken in this very serious business, to know whether the man was in

course for trial, and whether the President had acted in the hasty and

premature manner which was stated, in delivering him up.

Mr. GALLATIN could not help observing the disposition which gentlemen

evinced of placing the opinions and sensations expressed by one

gentleman to the account of others. To take a fair view of the

resolutions, what did they amount to? Nothing more than the deductions

which one man had drawn from the message sent to this House by the

Executive: these deductions, in the form of a resolution, he had

submitted to the consideration of the Committee of the Whole. Now,

except it could be proved that that gentleman had made all the

deductions of and acted for every gentleman, there could be no ground

for saying that every gentleman would be satisfied, without the evidence

which might be collected from the records of the District Court of South

Carolina. Was any gentleman in the House bound to be satisfied, with the

gentleman from New York, that all the facts necessary to be known were

furnished? Was every gentleman in the House bound to confine himself

solely to the resolutions before the House? Certainly not. It could not

be denied that the evidence now required was essential to a full

investigation of the conduct of the judge, who was the principal agent

of the Executive in this case.

Mr. H. LEE hoped that the gentleman from South Carolina would withdraw

his motion. He would mention some reasons which would induce him to vote

differently from gentlemen with whom he usually had the honor to vote.

Considering this a question of very great importance, not only to the

American people, and to the reputation of the House, but also to the

highly respectable character presiding over our Government, he trusted

the House would, in its whole process, be led by principles so fair and

candid, as not to leave the least room for a charge of derogation from

its own dignity or of the great subject it was discussing.

He would vote for the motion calling for the papers, but he would do it

with an expectation that it would not postpone the discussion of the

business so far as related to the conduct of the President of the United

States. It appeared that the conduct of the President, as charged, was

fully before the House; there could be no difficulty therefore to

proceed on it; but, as far as respected the judge, Mr. L. trusted the

record of the court would be sent, for he thought it but fair to gratify

gentlemen who considered there was any material evidence wanting.

Mr. VARNUM would vote for the resolution proposed; he thought it was

doubtful whether the President had acted with propriety or not; but he

believed if there had been any incidental impropriety of conduct, it was

never done with an evil design, nor with a view to interfere with any

other department of the Government; but certainly to deny this evidence,

which several gentlemen had stated to be necessary to assist them in

making up their minds, would stamp a censure on the conduct of those

officers as great as that contained in the resolution. He thought the

gentleman from New York had a right to bring the subject to the view of

the House. If he saw any proceeding which to him appeared dangerous, it

was his duty to commence an investigation. No man ought to flinch from

what he thought right. The only way to give public satisfaction, in a

matter that had so much engaged public attention, was to give all the

evidence which could be procured, and let the matter be investigated to

the bottom; and, most assuredly, the only way effectually to clear the

characters implicated, if they were innocent, was to leave no doubt as

to the desire of the House to scrutinize their conduct. But, certainly,

the very great reluctance which gentlemen showed to procure all the

evidence, and, after all, their denial of it, must leave a suspicion

bordering much on guilt.

Mr. BAYARD rose, in answer to Mr. GALLATIN and others, and observed,

that, with respect to Nash calling himself an American citizen before

that court, (an object which it was desired to prove by this call for

evidence,) they were asked to admit the fact. Mr. B. asked, would these

gentlemen admit that Nash was guilty of the dreadful murders committed

on board the British frigate? Would they admit that he falsely made the

claim? However, he had no disposition to rest on that point. Another

fact, however, which it was required to admit was as to the jurisdiction

of the court of the United States upon the case. Mr. B. denied this, and

repeated the former arguments in proof of his opinion. He insisted that

the whole arrest and proceeding was had at the instance of the British

Consul and Minister, in proof of which he quoted their letters. The

record, he said, could not possibly dispense any light to this fact; the

record would only give the warrant and some of the depositions first

taken before the judge; but as to the court being designated where the

case was to be tried, he contended that it was not usual to insert it in

the warrant--he never saw one so drawn. It was possible that Nash was

committed with a view to be delivered up to the British, before the

letter was received by the judge from the President; and it was very

reasonable that the whole previous business was at the instigation of

the British agent, but it was impossible to prove that jurisdiction had

attached before the letter directing the delivery to be made was

received.

Mr. JONES said, that finding himself, from the vote he was about to

give, implicated in the charge made by the gentleman from Delaware, (Mr.

BAYARD,) that gentlemen who were yesterday ashamed to vote for the

proposition to discharge the committee from further consideration of the

subject, in general and express terms, because it would imply a distrust

of the sufficiency of the ground on which to support the principles of

the resolutions, were now disposed to effect the same object by a

decision which would, in fact, go to evade the question during the

present session, he felt himself impelled, by a respect for his own

conduct, to explain the motives which would govern his vote on the

present question. He considered the case which had been called into view

by the proposition of the gentleman from New York, (Mr. LIVINGSTON,) as

one that involved in it the dearest interests and deepest concerns of

the people of the United States. The gentleman from Delaware (Mr.

BAYARD) and the gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. DANA) had indulged

themselves in the most violent invectives and unnecessary abuse against

the unfortunate, the obscure, and insignificant character, now dead, who

was the subject of this proposition. On this topic they had exercised

all their powers of passionate declamation. If this was a grateful theme

for the employment of their talents, he did not envy them the enjoyment

of it. How that kind of argument would apply to the question, he left to

the House to determine.

For his part, Mr. J. said, he deemed it totally immaterial whether the

man was, as they had declared, an Irishman or not; whether he was a

Turk, a Hottentot, or a native-born American, if he claimed to be an

American citizen, and produced a certificate in due form, under the

signature of a proper officer, of his citizenship, and that claim was

slighted by the judge, or declared immaterial, and the fact not inquired

into of his being a citizen, then he conceived the safety of the

citizens of America to be equally put in jeopardy, as if the man had

been born and raised in Charleston, in the circle of the judge's own

acquaintance. If, he asked, a dagger aimed at my breast by an assassin

in the dark, should by mistake or impetuosity pierce the bosom of

another, would not the discovery of such an attempt awaken alarm, and

demand a precaution for my future safety? Certainly it would. So in this

case, if this man claimed to be a citizen, and wore about him the legal

voucher of that claim, and if he was told in the presence of American

citizens, "it is of no importance whether you are, or are not a citizen,

that is a point of no concern in the case," notwithstanding it may

afterwards be found he was no citizen, yet would it equally involve the

safety of every true citizen who might fall into similar circumstances.

We may congratulate ourselves that it has not fallen on a

fellow-citizen, but we ought still to improve the lesson this case has

presented. Mr. J. hoped that it would be improved, and that, at least,

legislative provisions would be made to prevent this decision from

operating on a citizen, if such a case should occur in future.

The question was then taken on the motion of Mr. HARPER, to postpone the

consideration of the motion of Mr. NICHOLSON, for a call of the record

of the District Court of South Carolina, for one week, and

negatived--yeas 32, nays 63.

The question then recurred upon adopting the resolutions.

Mr. MARSHALL spoke at length against it. He contended there was no

prospect of coming to a decision of the original question this session,

if this were adopted; and asked if the character of the President of the

United States ought to be held up in the suspicious view in which the

resolution placed it, until the next session of Congress? He hoped not.

It seemed to him that a postponement amounted to a declaration to the

people of America that there was much cause for suspicion, and that

additional evidences were wanted to substantiate it.

Mr. NICHOLAS replied to Mr. M., and contended that the whole truth of

the case was to come out of the additional testimony now asked for.

An adjournment was then called for, and negatived--yeas 30.

Mr. RANDOLPH spoke in favor of the resolution, and in answer to Mr.

MARSHALL.

The question was then taken that the House do agree to the motion first

proposed, and passed in the negative--yeas 44, nays 57.

And then the House adjourned.

FRIDAY, February 28.

Mr. HARPER moved a postponement of the order of the day on the business

of Jonathan Robbins, until Monday. He did not conceive much progress

would be made this day, and as there was much private business on hand

it could not be gone through with. If the business be taken up on Monday

it can be regularly gone through with without intermission.

The motion was agreed to.

MONDAY, March 3.

_Lake Superior Lands._

Mr. COOPER observed that a navy was considered an object of great

importance, as was also our extended commerce, and neither of these

could be carried on to any profit without a very liberal use of copper.

That article could not be purchased at present at less than half a

dollar a pound, but by attention to an object which was within our own

power it might be had at a very low price. From these considerations he

laid on the table the following resolution:

Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16) · 第 182 / 272 题