Mr. VARNUM said he thought the wording of the resolution improper, as
the word "completing" would clash with the act of last session.
The question was put and negatived, 50 to 34.
Mr. MACON wished the frigates to be completed, but not manned, he
therefore moved to strike out the words "and manning."
The question was put and negatived; there being only twenty-four votes
in favor of it.
Mr. GILES moved to strike out the word "completing;" but, after some
conversation, the motion was withdrawn, and the original resolution was
carried.
The third proposition next came under consideration.
Mr. NICHOLAS hoped the gentleman who introduced this motion, would tell
them for what purpose these additional vessels were wanted. He supposed
this resolution to be connected with the next, and if so, he thought
they should be considered together. What, he asked, were to be the
instructions given to the commanders of these vessels? He thought it a
very embarrassing business, and one that would certainly lead to war;
nay, indeed, the thing seemed to be a war operation in itself.
Mr. W. SMITH wished the gentleman had made his inquiries before. They
would have come more properly when the frigates were under
consideration, as the same objection would be against both; and the next
resolution had no more connection with this than with that already
agreed to. The gentleman seemed to have let go the opportunity of
calling upon him; as, however, he did not wish to evade his call,
(though he was not willing to say he would himself vote for the
measure,) he would say that it appeared to him, from the present state
of the commerce of this country, to be necessary to provide convoys for
our vessels. These vessels might not, indeed, be employed as a regular
convoy, but partly confined to the coasts and harbors.
Mr. NICHOLAS expected the gentleman from South Carolina would have
acknowledged that the two resolutions were connected. Indeed he must
have intended those vessels to be employed in this way, or such a
resolution would not have been introduced. With respect to Sweden's
treaty for a reciprocal convoy, there was some ground for it, as there
was a difference between the Northern Powers of Europe, as to the
principle of free ships making free goods; but where there was no
difference as to the principle, no such thing could take place.
Mr. GALLATIN said the present resolution was certainly in some degree
connected with the next. It was understood that the purchasing of
frigates and sloops of war, was for the purpose of convoying our trade.
Under the present circumstances of this country, he should be opposed to
this proposition; not that he denied the right of neutral powers to
afford convoys to their merchant vessels; but, because under present
circumstances it was impolitic to adopt the measure, not only for the
reasons urged by the gentleman from Virginia, but on account of our
situation with respect to France at the present moment. By our treaty
with France, enemy's property was to be respected on board of American
vessels, and certain articles used in the building of ships were not
considered as contraband; the PRESIDENT would, of course, be obliged to
give orders to have our vessels protected in this situation, and who
could not see that this would be the source of war; and if the convoy
were not to be employed to enforce these two privileges, he did not see
what use it could be of. He knew that depredations without number had
been committed in the West Indies; but he was led to believe that this
was done by pirates more than by any other vessels. But suppose it were
practicable to distinguish between those vessels which were regularly,
and those which were piratically taken; yet, he must confess he would
not be for running the risk of a rupture, by sending out armed vessels
to contest the point, especially when we have reason to believe that
these attacks are unauthorized by the French Government.
Mr. G. thought it would only be necessary to extend our navy in case of
war, and were this unhappily to be our situation, vessels might easily
be purchased without delay; but whilst we were at peace, he did not
think the advantages which could be derived from a convoy would be a
sufficient inducement to go into the measure. Besides he was induced by
another motive to give this proposition his negative. He knew the
depredations upon our commerce had been great; but he did not look upon
this loss as falling only upon merchants. There was not an individual
who did not bear a part of it.[17] For instance, if a merchant paid ten
or fifteen per cent. additional upon his cargo, he will put a
proportionably high price upon his commodities, which must eventually be
paid by the consumer. Therefore, so far as an argument might be drawn
from this circumstance, it became a question of expediency, and he
thought it would be granted, that the loss to individuals would be less
in this way than if they had to support a navy to protect our trade.
Mr. W. SMITH acknowledged that there was considerable weight in the
arguments of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, though he did not find
sufficient weight in them to change his opinion of the propriety of the
measure. The gentleman from Virginia had endeavored to show that, as
there was no difference of opinion as to principle between France and
this country, the regulations entered into with Sweden did not apply;
whilst the gentleman from Pennsylvania had produced arguments to show
that we were in that situation. With respect to the treaty articles in
dispute, it would be an easy matter for the President to give the
commanders of our vessels proper instructions on that head. And would
any gentleman say it was not right to defend our vessels against
pirates? Would not the French say, if they were applied to for redress,
"You knew these were pirates; why did you not defend yourselves against
them?" The expense, which seems so much to alarm gentlemen, should be
put out of the question. The only question, said he, is, if your
property is unjustly attacked, will you defend it?
But it was said the loss did not fall upon the merchant, but upon the
consumer. Mr. S. asserted it fell upon the country; and so far from the
expense of the proposed armament being equal to the loss sustained by
captures, it would not, in his opinion, be a tenth part of the amount,
for whatever the plunderers got this country lost. Mr. S. said he had
made a rough calculation of what would be the expense of three frigates,
of 32 guns, and six sloops of war of 16 guns, and found it to be
$926,000, including the equipment and manning for one year.
Mr. GILES said, the gentleman from South Carolina talked of defensive
measures, but his plans were offensive. That gentleman had undertaken to
doubt the right of France to declare her ports rebel ports. Was this
defensive? Every nation had this right. It was not long since Great
Britain exercised it against us. Yet, aided by a convoy, he wished to
push our trade to these ports. This would not only be hazarding the
peace of the country, but taking the direct road to war.
Besides, said Mr. G., could it be expected that six or ten frigates
could convoy all our vessels? No; not a twentieth part of them. They
could, therefore, be of little use, but might be the means of producing
the greatest evil to the country.
Mr. BALDWIN said, in all their determinations with respect to a naval
force, however great the emergency, it has always been determined to
build, rather than purchase vessels, and he saw no reason for departing
from this mode in the present instance.
After some objections from Mr. W. SMITH to the building plan, which he
said would take three or four years to furnish the proposed vessels,
whereas merchant vessels might be immediately purchased, which would
answer the purpose of small frigates, the committee rose, reported the
two resolutions, which the House took up and agreed to, and committees
were appointed to report upon them by bills or otherwise.
WEDNESDAY, June 7.
_Defensive Measures._