Mr. Aldam.
Sir T. D. Acland.
Captain Fitzroy.
Sir Robert H. Inglis.
Mr. Milnes.
Mr. W. Patten.
Mr. Stuart Wortley.
Captain the Honourable _Joseph Denman_, R. N. called in; and Examined.
6540. _Chairman._] Will you state what your service on the coast of
Africa has been?--My first acquaintance with the coast of Africa was in
the year 1834, when I took over a slave vessel from Rio Janeiro. In the
year 1835 I commanded the Curlew, upon that coast, for a considerable
period; and for the last two years I have been in charge of the coast
between Cape Verde and Cape Palmas. I was the senior officer upon that
district.
6541. What has been the course of the slave trade since your
acquaintance with the coast of Africa; has it decreased in extent, or
changed its direction?--Since my first acquaintance with the coast, the
slave trade has changed in many most important particulars, both with
regard to the locality and with regard to the method in which it has
been carried on.
6542. Will you state first, as to the locality, in what respect it has
changed?--In the year 1835, when the Equipment Treaty came into force,
the effect was, in a great measure, to drive the slave trade into the
south latitude, where it was carried on with perfect impunity, under the
flag of Portugal, by the then existing treaty. They then found that upon
the north coast they could carry on the slave trade, by using the flag
of Portugal, exactly as before.
6543. By the north coast, you mean north of the equator?--Yes: but from
the end of the year 1839 they have been equally shut out from the
Portuguese and from the Spanish flag. Up to that period no check
whatever had been effected. Since that period I conceive that the slave
trade has diminished to one-half what it was before.
6544. Not only north of the equator, but along the whole coast?--Along
the whole coast of Africa. The whole amount of the export of slaves from
Africa is, in my opinion, now, not one-half what it was previously to
the Act of 2 Victoria, empowering us to capture Portuguese ships fitted
for the slave trade. The effect of all former changes had been to throw
the slave trade under the flag of Portugal, where it received a perfect
protection in the southern latitude, and in the northern latitude was
on the same footing on which it had been always since the trade was
first established.
6545. Does the trade seem now to look to any flag to cover itself
under?--They seem to have been deprived of every flag they could
possibly look to; they no longer receive protection from any flag.
6546. Not from the American?--Not from the American flag, decidedly,
except indirectly.
6547. Do you conceive that the present system, if carried on with the
same amount of force, will reduce the slave trade to a still greater
extent?--My opinion is, that the system of blockade is that which alone
can be successful under any circumstances, but that to render it
effective we want a considerable increase of force; with an increase of
force I believe that in three years the slave trade may be demolished
and exterminated.
6548. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] In the south as well as in the north?--Yes;
there is no longer any difference since the 2nd of Victoria.
6549. _Chairman._] Do you contemplate a blockade of the whole coast?--I
contemplate the blockade of those parts where the slave trade is carried
on.
6550. Do you believe that a material check to the trade, or an
extirpation of the trade for two or three years, in any one place, makes
it difficult to resume it afterwards, if the interference of the
cruizers is suspended?--It turns the trade into another course. When
once the trade is interrupted at any place, people are not in the habit
of sending traders up the country for slaves, and traders from the
interior cease to bring slaves down to them there, and there is great
difficulty felt in resuming it; and in almost every instance legitimate
commerce comes in, and the wants of the natives are supplied by those
means; but I would not in such cases suspend the interference of the
cruizers altogether, until the slave trade should be entirely
eradicated.
6551. You believe that when the slave trade is checked for a period,
legitimate commerce grows up in its place, and the desire to resume it
is diminished?--I think the desire to resume it is diminished, in the
first place, principally on account of the difficulty of resuming it. I
believe that all over Africa the natives prefer the slave trade to any
other trade.
6552. But you conceive that the lawful trade co-operates with the
efforts of the cruizers?--In speaking of lawful trade I think it is
necessary to state, that in my opinion the only legitimate trade of
Africa, in the strict sense of the term, is that wherein goods are paid
for in produce; all other trade, more or less, is connected with the
slave trade.
6553. You mean that the money by which goods are paid for can only have
been acquired by the slave trade?--Universally by the slave trade;
dollars are brought upon the coast by no other means.
6554. Mr. _Forster_.] Those dollars and doubloons being diffused over
the coast, in what way would you propose to stop the circulation of
them?--I do not propose to stop the circulation of them.
6555. _Chairman._] When you say “lawful trade,” you mean trade which you
would consider as free from any connexion with the slave trade?--Trade
which is altogether unconnected with the slave trade.
6556. Where it is a mere exchange of goods for produce, you see no
connexion with the slave trade?--No connexion whatever.
6557. But where you see an exchange of goods for money, there you
conceive there is at least a suspicion of the slave trade?--I do not
think that an individual receiving dollars or money upon the coast
should of necessity be suspected or accused of engaging in or conniving
at the slave trade in any way; I merely say that such transactions do
indirectly partake and mingle with slave-trading transactions.
6558. Because the money is brought upon the coast originally only by the
slave trade?--Yes.
6559. But the parties receiving the money may be totally exempt from any
connexion themselves with the slave trade?--They may be certainly
unconnected with the slave trade altogether.
6560. Wherever the slave trade is carried on, there probably money will
be found?--Invariably.
6561. And therefore those who deal in lawful goods, in places where the
slave trade is also carried on, will probably receive money in the
course of their transactions?--In many places altogether money.
6562. What is the change in the system of blockade at present, as
compared with the former system?--Under the former system we had no
power over the ship until the slaves were actually on board. The
consequence was, that if a man-of-war lay in a port full of slavers, as
I have seen Whydah, with ten or a dozen slavers at one time, so long as
the man-of-war was in sight they would not ship their slaves; directly
the man-of-war was out of sight they shipped their slaves; and every
vessel in the harbour would weigh their anchor and set sail. The cruizer
would probably chase the wrong ship, and after having chased 100 miles
would be laughed at by the master of her, and told that he only did it
as a _pasatiempo_.
6563. Then the change of system is essentially dependent upon the power
of seizing under the equipment treaty?--Yes, entirely; the system of
blockade is only effective in consequence of that change in the powers
of the cruizers.
6564. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] The equipment treaty allows you to enter
rivers, and to board ships even while lying in the river?--The equipment
treaties do not give any new rights as regards places.
6565. Under that treaty you may examine slavers lying in the river, and
seize them there?--The sole difference is this, we might have searched
them formerly as we may search them now, but we could not seize them
before unless slaves were on board.
6566. _Chairman._] Are you acquainted with the condition of the leeward
coast?--I have not been on the leeward coast since the year 1835.
6567. You cannot speak to the condition of that coast as to the slave
trade?--I can state that then it was carried on to an enormous extent;
that I knew 20 sail of vessels to be there, and that under those former
treaties every one of those 20 escaped with full cargoes of slaves.
6568. You have been cruizing the last two years to the north of Cape
Palmas?--I have.
6569. What are the points that have been principally the resort of the
slave trade during that period?--The Gallinas, to an enormous extent;
New Cestos, which lies to the southward of Mesurado, between Mesurado
and Cape Palmas; Sea-bar at the Sherboro’ river; the rivers Pongas,
Bissao, and Cacheo.
6570. Which should you say have been the places from which the slave
trade has been carried on with the greatest vigour?--The Gallinas,
immeasurably more than any other place; but at Bissao, since the
destruction of the Gallinas, owing to the great difficulty of cruizing
there, it has increased, and no doubt will increase more, unless proper
measures are taken.
6571. What is the great difficulty of cruizing off Bissao?--There is an
inland navigation, a chain reaching from Bissao to the sea upon the
north. There are innumerable islands to the south, amongst which there
are seven or eight different passages by which the slavers could escape;
and there is the Portuguese settlement of Bissao, under which a slaver
may lie with perfect impunity under the Portuguese flag. From all those
circumstances, there is the greatest difficulty in the cruizers
operating effectually there.
6572. You have not the right of capturing under the walls of either a
Spanish or a Portuguese fort?--No, we cannot supersede their municipal
laws; all we can do is to remonstrate with the authorities.
6573. But you may seize as soon as the vessel is out of their
waters?--Yes; but they take care never to go out when you are in the
neighbourhood; they can get the most perfect information by canoes.
6574. Would steamers be especially adapted for cruizing on that
coast?--I consider two steamers indispensable for eradicating the slave
trade between the isle of Bulama and Bissao, assisted by two cruizers at
least; but a yet more important object is the occupation of the Bulama
island, from which the slavers have received the greatest possible
assistance, and the occupation of which would directly intercept the
principal supply of slaves. It is an island not only of immense
importance as regards commerce, but also of extraordinary fertility.
6575. Is it salubrious?--I cannot say that any part of the coast of
Africa is salubrious, but I have no reason to believe that it is less so
than other parts; this inland is one of the last importance; I do not
think it is possible to appreciate it without seeing Captain Belcher’s
chart.
6576. What is the importance of that island to commerce?--It is at the
mouth of all the rivers; the river Nunez, which is a river of vast
importance, in my opinion, and the Rio Grande, and the Rio Pongos. It
intercepts the trade with Bissao completely.
6577. Do those great rivers open out a fertile country?--I think not,
generally; I think the banks are generally very swampy near the sea; but
there is a very large inland trade brought down the river, both in
slaves and produce: the slaves are carried almost entirely to Bissao.
6578. Sir _R. H. Inglis_.] You have referred to the occupation of the
island of Bulama, as furnishing by its geographical position a most
important station for the prevention of the slave trade, was not it
selected by Captain Beaver for that purpose, and was not its almost
proverbial unhealthiness the cause of its abandonment?--I believe there
was a great deal of prejudice upon the subject; I believe, moreover,
that the settlement was most injudiciously selected for health, and I
think, besides, that if you compare it with certain periods at Sierra
Leone, and every other part of the coast, there will be found periods
quite as unhealthy at other places as at Bulama. I think Captain
Beaver’s account of the island fully explains the causes of the
sickness. It was very much from the misconduct of the people. I know
that when orders came out to declare the sovereignty of Great Britain
over that island, 1,600 persons at Sierra Leone volunteered to me to go
there to settle it at a time when the emigrant ships could not get a
man, so high was the impression of the people as to its advantages.
6579. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Are none of the other islands so well
situated?--None to be compared to this, and this is the only one over
which we have any claim.
6580. In point of health how are the other islands as compared with
Bulama?--I have no means of judging, being inhabited by barbarous
piratical people, with whom we have no sort of intercourse at present;
the policy of the Portuguese is to keep all the persons surrounding
their settlement in the most barbarous state.
6581. Mr. _Aldam_.] What is the nature of the land on the opposite
coast?--All swampy, I believe.
6582. Then is not the island necessarily unhealthy?--No, I think not; I
think that if the sea coast on the western side of the island was
occupied, it would not be so; it is certainly not more swampy than the
Gambia itself, and many other settlements.
6583. Mr. _Forster_.] You attribute the failure of Captain Beaver to the
inadequacy of the means that he employed rather than to the fault of the
island?--I think it was a great deal owing to that; I think there is no
proof that the island is unhealthy to the extent supposed, and I believe
the island might be immediately peopled by blacks.
6584. Have you in the course of your cruizing on the coast of Africa
seen any part that appeared to you to be so eligible for a settlement as
the island of Bulama?--I have already stated in as strong terms as I am
able, the importance of the island, in my opinion, in every respect;
there may be places that I should suppose to be more healthy; for
instance, Sierra Leone itself, is apparently the most healthy part of
the whole coast, but there seems to be great doubt whether it is so.
6585. Mr. _Aldam_.] If the opposite coast is swampy, would not fever
almost always prevail there when the wind sets from the land?--I am not
at all able to say what causes fever, for we find it under all
circumstances; you find sometimes swampy places less unhealthy than high
places.
6586. Mr. _Forster_.] Did you land on the island of Bulama?--Yes.
6587. Have you seen any considerable portion of the island?--No, I have
not, excepting the coast.
6588. Is it your opinion that there is open ground there?--I found the
ground under cultivation, and therefore only told the people that it was
a British island; I thought it would have been injudicious to remove
them and let jungles spring up before the Government took possession of
it.
6589. You saw no extraordinary obstacle to the cultivation and
improvement of the island?--Decidedly not; I think it is the most
favourable spot for cultivation I have seen upon the coast of Africa.
6590. Have you been up to the river Nunez or the river Pongas?--I have
been up the Nunez and the Pongas.
6591. To what distance?--I went up the Nunez as high as Kacundy, about
40 or 50 miles in a direct line; it is where the British factories are;
it is the place to which all the trade of the Foota-Jallon nation is
brought.
6592. Did you land upon the banks of the river?--Yes; I was five days in
the river altogether.
6593. Did you see any thing of the state of the cultivation?--I had no
means of judging; I do not believe the exports of the produce raised in
the neighbourhood of the river itself at all important; the important
commerce is that which is brought down from Foota-Jallon; and the
opportunities I had of judging gave me the highest impression of the
state of that country. I think they are far superior to any other
African people I have ever had the means of acquiring a knowledge of;
they are a Foolah nation, in the Foota-Jallon country; Teembo is the
capital.
6594 Mr. _Forster_.] You found those British factories depending
entirely upon the protection of the natives, without any British
establishment to assist them?--I went up for the purpose of affording
them protection; there is no Government establishment of any sort, nor
do I think it desirable there should be.
6595. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] What is the ground of that opinion?--That the
river is exceedingly unhealthy; and my opinion is that the Government
influence would be quite as well supported by occasional visits by steam
ships, and Bulama would afford support to the trade, if colonized.
6596. _Chairman._] What kind of settlement do you contemplate upon the
island of Bulama?--A colony of black people, with any traders there that
choose to go there, supported by a small fort, with a detachment of the
African corps.
6597. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] Under the English Government?--Under the
English Government.
6597*. And visited by steamers?--And visited by steamers and cruizers.
6598. Mr. _W. Patten_.] What time does it require to go from Sierra
Leone to Bulama?--It depends a great deal upon the time of year; I
should say, generally, the passage might be made in less than three
days.
6599. Do you recollect the distance?--I am not quite sure; 200 miles, I
should think.
6600. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] Would you have this colony dependent upon the
Government of Sierra Leone?--Yes, I think decidedly.
6601. Mr. _Forster_.] Tn preference to its being attached to the
Gambia?--It depends upon the facility of communication between the two;
whichever the communication is most easy with, I should say it should be
connected with. I am not prepared to say at this moment with which the
communication is most easy.
6602. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] But at all events you think it should be
dependent upon one or the other, not separate?--I think so.
6603. Mr. _Forster_.] You were understood to say that the country up the
River Nunez, and the River Pongas, is swampy in the interior?--The
mouths of the rivers are swampy, but up the Nunez there is good rising
ground; the Pongas is a succession of creeks joining each other.
6604. Did you become acquainted with the fact up the Nunez of the growth
of coffee on the mountains?--I became aware of the fact of coffee
growing in whole forests, which have been hitherto neglected in
consequence of the duties amounting to a prohibition.
6605. Is it your opinion that the slave trade is carried on in the Nunez
to any material extent?--The Portuguese settlement of Bissao has small
boats and canoes collecting slaves, together with produce, as far down
as the north bank of the Sierra Leone river; there are many of those
boats and canoes employed in the Nunez, but to the best of my belief no
vessel has carried slaves from thence for several years, except in one
instance, where, under the plea of recruits, the French took away a
cargo.
6606. _Chairman._] The canoes go about picking up a few at a time, and
collecting them into a store, as it were, at Bissao and Cacheo?--At
Bissao and Cacheo; I have no doubt that there are also barracoons upon
the Bissagos islands, but I had no opportunity to examine as to the
fact.
6607. Mr. _Forster_.] You do not consider the British factories in Rio
as at all responsible for those proceedings?--Decidedly not; I have no
reason to suppose that they are.
6608. How do you account for so few cruizers having generally visited
that part of the coast hitherto?--Because the station which I had charge
of has generally been very short of cruizers; the only means of
communication was by boats, and owing to the long exposure, and the
fatigue it occasioned, it invariably cost the lives of about a fourth of
the people employed, whereas a steamer might do in one day what boats
take four or five days to do.
6609. _Chairman._] How would you provide fuel for the steamers in those
parts?--I am not aware how far wood might be substituted for coal; I
think in that part wood certainly might be used, because they would be
able to take in supplies so frequently.
6610. They would have no long distances to go?--Not in that district.
6611. So that they need never be far removed from the
depôts?--Precisely; there might be depôts at Bulama, and at the Gambia,
and at Sierra Leone; the great difficulty is the engineers; you are
obliged to have white engineers at present, but there is no sort of
reason why black people of Sierra Leone should not be brought up for
the purpose. There are numbers sufficiently educated for the purpose,
and with proper instruction, in the course of a few years, they would
supersede the necessity for white engineers.
6612. Mr. _Forster_.]--Have you not found the natives rather remarkable
for the quickness and facility with which they learn mechanical
operations of that kind?--I have found them quite equal to white people
in that respect, possessing great intelligence, and quickness, and
shrewdness, making allowance for their want of education and barbarous
habits in general.
6613. Mr. _Wortley_.] Did you ever consider how far it would be possible
to establish an effective blockade upon the coast which has been the
scene of the slave trade by means of a combination of steamers and
sailing cruizers?--I believe that by such means, by taking certain
districts of the coast pointed out by particular circumstances, and
effectively and continuously blockading those parts, and then moving
from point to point, leaving a smaller force to prevent the slave trade
from reviving, that system would be perfectly effective in the course of
three years, supposing the forces to be increased.
6614. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] From what point to what point?--I speak
merely of the West Coast, I have no knowledge of the East; but I have no
hesitation in saying that it might be effected from Cape Verde down to
the northern part of our Cape of Good Hope dominions.
6615. Mr. _Wortley_.] In order to accomplish that object are you able to
state what you imagine would be the necessary force of steamers and
cruizers?--I should say that steamers are only necessary in particular
parts; I should say that six steamers would be quite enough.
6616. _Chairman._] And how many sailing-vessels?--There are now upon the
coast sixteen sailing-vessels; I would increase them by at least
one-half; I would withdraw all the cruizers now employed in checking the
slave trade on the other side of the Atlantic; I consider them, as
regards the suppression of the slave trade, as entirely useless.
6617. Do you know what number are employed on the other side of the
Atlantic?--On the other side of the Atlantic they have various other
duties to perform; I can scarcely say that any of them are exclusively
employed in this service.
6618. Mr. _Wortley_.] But the whole number there is rendered large by
having this service to perform?--Yes.
6619. Can you say what number it would be possible to dispense with, in
case the slave trade service were discontinued on the other side of the
Atlantic?--I cannot answer this question, as they have various other
duties to perform, and are not exclusively employed against slave trade.
6620. When you said that you would increase the number of cruizers by
one-half, did you mean that you would increase it by one-half, including
the number of steamers that you propose to have?--No, excluding those; I
would make the present 16 vessels 24, and have six steamers in addition.
6621. And you think that if there were a force of that kind employed
upon the West Coast of Africa, it would have the effect of entirely
suppressing the slave trade?--If a proper system of blockade were
adopted, I have no doubt of it.
6622. _Chairman._] Do you consider that it is useless, towards putting
down the slave trade, to capture slave vessels off the coast of Brazil
or the West Indies?--My opinion is, that any captures there are such
utter chance that they do no good whatever, as on that side not one
vessel out of ten can ever be captured, and wherever it is reduced to a
chance at all, the profits are sufficient to keep up the slave trade. My
opinion is, that the only way in which the slave trade can be stopped is
in the interior of Africa. Every slave vessel that sails with her cargo
of slaves has already done all she can to keep the slave trade going in
Africa. The native dealer has his profit upon them; he does not care
where she goes to, or what becomes of the slaves afterwards.
6623. Mr. _Forster_.] Is not a slave vessel captured on the western side
of the Atlantic, equally a loss to the slave dealer as a slave vessel
captured on the eastern side of the Atlantic?--My opinion is, that the
amount of loss to the slave dealer is of little consequence, seeing that
it is the result of chances which, in that quarter, must be always
immensely in favour of the slave dealer, and that, compared with the
chance of escape, the chance of capture is nothing; the profits are so
large that the risk will be readily incurred.
6624. _Chairman._] You think that the chance of escape is much greater
with cruizers on the western side of the Atlantic than on the
eastern?--My opinion is, that if the slaves are once on board, the
mischief is already done.
6625. Mr. _Aldam_.] Do you think that the only effect of capturing a
slave ship off the coast of America, is to increase the price of slaves,
and that any increase which that can cause, the planters can still
afford to pay?--The capture of a slave ship after her slaves are on
board inflicts a heavy loss on the owners; but while embarkation can be
effected to any extent, slave trade can never be stopped. The mere fact
of keeping cruizers on the American side of the Atlantic is in itself an
absolute proof of the want of success of our efforts, and the strongest
argument in favour of the system I recommend. While slaves can be
introduced, planters can afford to pay almost any price.
6626. Mr. _Wortley_.] Do you think it would be possible to suppress the
slave trade by any system pursued in the interior of Africa, without an
effectual suppression of the trade upon the coast?--The only way in
which I contemplate the suppression of the slave trade in the interior
of Africa, is by the suppression of the embarkation of slaves.
6627. As long as the temptation upon the coast exists, do you think it
impossible to put an end to the slave trade in the interior?--Precisely;
as long as embarkation takes place, that temptation continues, and the
slave trade of the interior remains untouched.
6628. _Chairman._] Has not the cruizing off the coast of Africa the
additional advantage of protecting British trade incidentally, and
showing to the natives before their eyes that the English flag is
actively exerted to put down that traffic, which advantages would not be
secured by cruizing on the western side of the Atlantic?--Certainly, it
is one of our first duties to protect British trade, and in that respect
I have no doubt it is useful, as well as in the suppression of the slave
trade.
6629. Is it not of considerable advantage in a traffic like that upon
the coast of Africa, that the British power should be pretty frequently
displayed?--It is highly necessary.
6630. _Chairman._] Supposing even the chance of capture to be equal in
the two cases, has not cruizing off the coast of Africa the further
advantage of checking or entirely preventing the horrors of the middle
passage?--If you capture a full vessel upon the coast of Africa, she has
nearly the same voyage to Sierra Leone from many parts: it depends upon
circumstances.
6631. Sir _R. H. Inglis_.] You have stated that the slave trade is a
favourite trade throughout Africa; would, therefore, the prevention of
the slave trade, whether on the east or on the west of the Atlantic,
remove the temptation in the one case more than in the other?--My
opinion is, that the temptation is removed alone by throwing
difficulties in the way of embarkation; because, as long as the native
can sell his slaves, he does not care where they go to; he goes and buys
more slaves.
6632. _Chairman._] Would you think it advantageous if the cruizers were
allowed to fit up one of their prizes as a cruizing tender?--It would be
undoubtedly of great advantage, but it would be contrary to the
treaties.
6633. To all the treaties?--I think to all the treaties; and it would be
open to great abuses.
6634. What abuses?--I think you would have young midshipmen and people
cruizing away in those vessels, and getting into scrapes, by improperly
searching foreign vessels.
6635. You regard the duty as one of rather a delicate nature, which is
not to be entrusted to subordinate officers?--The most difficult and the
most delicate that a British officer can be entrusted with; the immense
mischief produced by an indiscreet search, by giving offence to foreign
nations, has been very much experienced.
6636. Do not the treaties require that officers of a certain rank shall
alone be empowered to carry out the search?--That is the case in most of
the treaties.
6637. Mr. _Wortley_.] Has not there been an improvement of late years in
the class of vessels employed in cruizing?--Very great; I believe that
for some years they have been replacing the old brigs with a superior
class of vessels; fast sailing vessels, which are quite equal to the
slavers in sailing qualities.
6638. Are you aware whether that change has been followed by a
perceptible increase of efficiency in the service?--That change was
about contemporaneous with the change by the Act of the 2d of Victoria;
you cannot distinguish between the effects of the two.
6639. According to your observation, should you say that the present
class of vessels is an efficient class for the service for which they
are employed?--Decidedly; there are still a few of the old class, but
they have been always replaced at the expiration of their term of
service by efficient vessels.
6640. How are they in point of sailing as compared with the generality
of slavers?--They are generally superior; I commanded one for two years,
and I never chased a vessel that I did not overhaul; some got away from
darkness coming on, but I had the advantage in point of sailing in every
instance.
6641. What vessel was that?--The Wanderer, a 16-gun brig.
6642. _Chairman._] What are the respective functions that you would
assign to the sailing-vessel and to the steamer, the two acting in
combination?--The steamer, I think, should be probing the rivers and
ranging about the coast; the sailing-vessel should be as much as
possible a fixture at the place where the slaves are put on board, which
should never be left unguarded for an hour. The steamer should be
employed in going from place to place to see whether from new places
they are making arrangements to embark slaves, and also for carrying
provisions and water, and in chasing; but steamers could not entirely
blockade, because they are so much more frequently obliged to leave
their stations for supplies.
6643. Mr. _Wortley_.] What was the system you generally pursued in the
course of your service; did you pass your time principally in stationary
blockade, or were you upon a moving cruize?--When I took charge of the
station, the orders I issued to the other cruizers (as well as what I
practised myself) were, to maintain the principle of blockade; and if
they chased a vessel off a certain port where slaves were shipped, never
to lose sight of that port; but if they could not catch the vessel
without losing sight of it, to go back again, for she was sure to come
back again, and there was no harm done. If, on the other hand, the chase
is continued to any distance, other vessels might get in and ship
slaves; and even the very one pursued might dodge the cruizer at night,
and run in and effect her escape with a cargo.
6644. Mr. _Aldam_.] Then where would you place the six steamers you
propose to have?--I would have two between Cape Mesaduro and the river
Gambia, principally stationed at the Bissagos; but those operations I
speak of would very soon alter the character of the trade, and it would
be removed from point to point. I think there should be two more
steamers, perhaps, between Cape Formosa and Cape Palmas, and two more to
the southward of those points.
6645. Mr. _Forster_.] Do you think they could be navigated with wood
fuel entirely?--I am not prepared to answer that question, but I think
not; I think coal would be required upon most parts of the coast.
6646. Mr. _Aldam_.] What would be the size of the steamers necessary,
the tonnage, and the power of the engine?--The steamers on the coast of
Africa ought to be small steamers, not drawing more than five or six
feet water.
6647. _Chairman._] Might not the slave vessels be useful as tenders
sometimes after condemnation?--Under the treaties we are not empowered
to buy them. In the Act of 2d Victoria, there is a clause by which the
Government can take any captured vessel that they please for the purpose
of a tender,--one was established by me under that clause by orders from
the Admiralty,--but not to cruize; simply to convey the prize crews to
their proper ships.
6648. Mr. _Forster_.] Do not you consider the British settlements on the
coast of Africa an important assistance in the suppression of the slave
trade?--I consider that the settlements on shore have done some service
in that way, but not half so much as they might have done.
6649. _Chairman._] Will you state the grounds of that opinion?--With
regard to Sierra Leone, I have no hesitation in saying, that the slave
trade has derived great advantage from it, and that the British
influence does not extend there much beyond the limits of the colony as
regards this object. The entrance of the Sherboro’ river has on one side
of it Sierra Leone, and there is a slave trade carried on there, and
that has been owing to the view which the Government took of General
Turner’s proceeding in 1826, the consequence of which has been to
prevent future governors from attempting similar plans.
6650. What were those plans?--To obtain the sovereignty of the coast
down as far as the Boom Kittam river, which lies on the south side of
the Sherboro’, and from thence, I believe, to Cape Mount.
6651. Mr. _Forster_.] Had he already entered into treaties for that
purpose?--He had already got possession as far as the Boom Kittam, and
the Government ordered that that should be relinquished again.
6652. _Chairman._] In what way has Sierra Leone lent assistance to the
slave trade?--The slave vessels have been repeatedly purchased there by
people, notoriously agents of Pedro Blanco, and others at Gallinas, and
they have gone back into his hands.
6653. Mr. _Forster_.] Do you think the settlement of Sierra Leone was so
much responsible for that as the system under which the vessels were
sold?--I think the individuals who purchased slave vessels for slave
dealers were very much to blame, and it is only to be regretted that no
punishment could be inflicted upon them.
6654. Sir _R. H. Inglis_.] By the law at present the slave vessels must
be broken up?--Not in all cases. Under the British law, the Act of the
5th George the 4th, vessels are not broken up, so that if a vessel is
condemned in British waters by the British law, she is sold, and
probably goes into a slave dealer’s hands the next day, which is the
case also with vessels condemned under the Brazilian treaty.
6655. Mr. _Forster_.] Are you aware that those vessels are sold by
auction to the highest bidder?--I am perfectly aware of that; that is
according to the treaties under which they are condemned: it is no fault
of the authorities of Sierra Leone nor of the Mixed Commission Court;
the authorities are compelled to allow her to leave the port afterwards.
6656. If an agent of Pedro Blanco, or even Pedro Blanco himself, went
into the auction room and bid the highest price he would get the
vessel?--I suppose so.
6657. _Chairman._] It is in that respect that you consider that Sierra
Leone has afforded facilities to the slave trade?--It is in that
respect; but, at the same time, I cannot conceive Pedro Blanco having
the audacity to go into the sale room for such a purpose, or the
authorities letting the vessel under such circumstances sail out of
port.
6658. How could the authorities stop the vessel going out under the
charge of Pedro Blanco himself, as well as under the charge of his
agent?--I think the facts would be almost sufficient to prove that she
was engaged in the slave trade; but there would be a difficulty, unless
she had equipments about her.
6659. Mr. _Forster_.] You would not propose to punish the auctioneer who
sold the vessel to the agent of Pedro Blanco?--No, he could not be
responsible; he would be acting as a Government agent.
6660. Mr. _Aldam_.] If a vessel was purchased on behalf of a slave
dealer at Sierra Leone, where would she clear for?--Probably for the
Cape Verd Islands. I know two cases where the vessels cleared for the
Cape Verd Islands; one of them I captured. I will state an instance of
the way in which vessels not broken up pass into the slave trade again.
The Republicano, a prize of the Fantome, was condemned at Sierra Leone;
she was purchased by an individual known to be engaged in the slave
trade; I went on board her and saw what her object was, that she was
going to carry slaves, and I detained her.
6661*. The purchaser was a man known to be engaged in the slave
trade?--Yes, and I detained her. When I went away myself I left orders
with my agent, on no account to let her go without a decree of the
court; but he thought that we could not prove sufficient to justify her
detention, and he let her go. The purchaser then proceeded to the Cape
de Verd Islands, and fitted her out for the slave trade, and she was
taken off the Gallinas by Captain Hill, of the Saracen, perfectly
equipped as a slave ship.
6662*. Who was the slave dealer?--He was an American; I forget his name.
6663*. Do you mean to say that he was a resident at Sierra Leone,
carrying on the slave trade?--No; but I merely mention that as an
instance of the way in which captured vessels, when not broken up, are
afterwards employed again in the slave trade. I do not say that he was
amenable to British law.
6664*. _Chairman._] Was it the actual slave dealer who made the purchase
in Sierra Leone?--He was a man known very well to be closely connected
with a slave vessel lately condemned.
6665*. What was the nature of his real or supposed connexion with the
slave trade?--I cannot exactly call to mind the proof of the fact; but
that it was so a reference to the printed correspondence will show.
6666*. Mr. _Aldam_.] Whose name appeared as owner; was the owner of the
ship that you captured a Spaniard or a Portuguese?--It was a Spanish
master; she appeared as the property of the American who had made the
purchase.
6667*. _Chairman._] Have there been instances in which a slave dealer
in his own person has come to Sierra Leone and made purchases of this
kind?--In the case I have just mentioned he had been already brought to
Sierra Leone in some vessel, but he was not known as Pedro Blanco was;
but I believe there would be no means of preventing them from taking the
vessel away, unless equipment was on board.
6668*. Has the colony of Sierra Leone in any other way contributed to
the maintenance of the slave trade, besides the facilities which it has
afforded of purchasing ships which have been condemned?--I have no doubt
that some degree of communication has been kept up between the slave
dealers in the neighbourhood of the Gallinas and the Sherboro’, and
parties in Sierra Leone.
6669*. Have you reason to know that any liberated Africans have engaged
in slave dealing?--I have no actual knowledge of any such circumstance;
I have no doubt that many, I have proof that some, liberated Africans
have been sold again into slavery.
6670*. To any extent?--I am not able to say to what extent; I should
think to a considerable extent, from cases which have fallen within my
knowledge.
6671*. Sir _R. H. Inglis_.] Do you believe that they have been
kidnapped?--I am unable to say whether they were kidnapped or not; I
should think it most likely.
6672*. _Chairman._] What are the cases with which you are
acquainted?--There were three cases at the Gallinas. There was one case
in the Pongas, where I went up and liberated a girl who had been carried
off.
6673*. Had those persons been carried off from within the district of
Sierra Leone, or in the course of their traffic along the coast?--The
one in the Pongas had been carried off from the colony of Sierra Leone,
and one of them had been taken away as a servant, and left as a pawn; in
fact a slave. The other two had been taken when out of the colony.
6674*. Was the case which you alluded to as having occurred within the
colony itself, a case of kidnapping or abduction conducted by
inhabitants of Sierra Leone?--I have Sir John Jeremie’s letter here upon
the subject. By the Timmanees, I see, is the statement in the letter.
6675*. Then this is a case in which some strangers entered the country
and carried off some of the inhabitants of Sierra Leone?--So it appears
from the letter.
6661. Sir _R. H. Inglis_.] Then you wish the Committee to understand
nothing more than that Sierra Leone has been the scene of incursions
made with a view to carry persons as slaves from that part of Africa, as
might have been the case from the Bonny?--I stated my belief that a
considerable number had been kidnapped also by the people of Sierra
Leone, and sold to natives who have carried them away, often in canoes.
6662. But you do not attribute that to any overt acts, or any neglect of
the Government?--By no means; I think it is almost unavoidable under the
circumstances.
6663. _Chairman._] You have no reason to know that a system of
kidnapping prevails in the colony, though individual instances may have
occurred?--I have no reason to know it; but I have reason to believe
that it did exist to a considerable extent, more particularly formerly,
when a great number were landed from slave ships; but now that is
reduced to a small number.
6664. In those instances of kidnapping you imagine that they were the
acts rather of strangers to the colony than a system pursued by the
inhabitants of the colony?--In many cases I think they were the acts of
inhabitants of the colony, who had kidnapped people, or seduced them
from the colony, and then sold them to the slave dealers.
6665. Upon what ground do you imagine that kidnapping does exist to a
considerable extent in the colony?--I have heard the thing repeatedly
stated with great confidence, and I think those instances go to prove
it; when I went into the Gallinas I found 90 slaves, and of those 90 two
were British subjects.
6666. Mr. _Forster_.] Could such a system have been carried on without
the consequences of it becoming obvious to every person resident at
Sierra Leone, and acquainted with the number of captured negroes in the
neighbourhood?--I believe that it might at times, when there was a great
influx of those black people; my opinion is, from what I have heard, but
I am not able to enter into the facts very closely, that the
apprenticeship system at Sierra Leone is extremely defective, and that
the whole system of supervision over the liberated Africans, as well as
of the apprentices, is also exceedingly bad, and open to great abuses.
6667. _Chairman._] Would it not be the duty of the police magistrates of
the district to see that there was no diminution of numbers by
kidnapping?--I am not aware that there are any district police
magistrates, except the superintendents of the villages.
6668. Do not those superintendents exercise the functions of
magistrates?--I do not know; but they are very often taken off by
sickness, and villages are frequently left without proper people to take
charge of them; and I believe, in my own mind, that the system of
kidnapping has gone on to some considerable extent.
6669. Mr. _Forster_.] But your opinion upon that subject is founded
merely upon report?--Yes; and upon information I have received in
conversation.
6670. Mr. _Aldam_.] Do you think that there is any remedy for that
evil?--I think the only remedy would be to exercise more supervision
over the liberated Africans, by having a larger Government establishment
to some extent, and a better class of people employed.
6671. _Chairman._] Have any other settlements given facilities to the
slave trade besides Sierra Leone?--Not directly, to my knowledge; the
trade of the Gambia is principally with Bissao, and at Bissao there is a
great slave trade, and legitimate trade, or rather produce trade going
on hand-in-hand together; the merchants of Bissao purchase quantities of
slaves and quantities of produce; and again, goods supplied by the
merchants at the Gambia are paid for in produce and in money; those
goods, undoubtedly, are more or less used by the slave dealers in the
slave trade.
6672. Sir _R. H. Inglis_.] The case to which you referred as within your
own knowledge, of a person detained in the Gallinas as a slave, taken
from Sierra Leone, was the case forming a subject of the Parliamentary
Papers of the year 1841?--No; another case; that was a case where she
had gone voluntarily into the country, and been detained.
6673. Mr. _Aldam_.] How many white people would be necessary to manage
the establishment on the island of Bulama?--I do not see the absolute
necessity of one white person, unless it be the officer commanding the
detachment; but at the utmost, three or four, independently of those who
chose voluntarily to settle in order to trade.
6674. Mr. _Forster_.] You appear to entertain a doubt whether the
British settlements already on the coast have rendered as much service
as they might have done for the suppression of the slave trade?--I spoke
more particularly of Sierra Leone; at the same time, the connexion of
the Gambia trade with the slave trade is a fact that there is no doubt
about.
6675. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] Do you also include the settlements on the
Gold Coast?--I have no knowledge of the Gold Coast settlements.
6676. Then your remark does not apply to them?--No.
6677. Mr. _Forster_.] When you speak in terms of disapproval of the
transactions which you say have taken place between Sierra Leone and the
Gallinas, do you wish the Committee to understand that you would
recommend that the intercourse between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas
should be put a stop to?--There is now no intercourse whatever between
Sierra Leone and the Gallinas, and there has not been any for the last
few years; I speak of former years.
6678. Would you think it desirable that there should be a commercial
intercourse between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas?--Undoubtedly I think
a commercial intercourse is the only means of eradicating the slave
trade; it is the best auxiliary of the cruizers.
6679. And your opinion would be the same with respect to the intercourse
between the Gambia and Bissao, that it is desirable that commercial
intercourse should be continued and extended if possible between those
two places?--Yes, and that it should be separated as much as possible
from the slave trade.
6680. _Chairman._] How do you distinguish the lawful from the unlawful
trade carried on in a place where both are going on together?--It is
almost impossible to distinguish them; for instance, at Bissao the
principal slave dealer is also the principal produce dealer, Caetano or
Kyetan Nossolino, with whom all the merchants at the Gambia have
dealings; in my opinion, that is not a very beneficial trade, because it
is not a direct trade with the natives at all; it is a trade between the
slave dealer and the British merchants; he buys produce, with which he
procures slaves; his principal trade is the slave trade, and he derives
great advantages from his commerce with the Gambia in his slave trade.
6681. Would he not have the same facilities of getting the goods
necessary for the slave trade from other sources?--He would not have the
same facility; it would be much more difficult for him to get it from
any other quarter, I apprehend.
6682. Mr. _Forster_.] Do you mean that it would be difficult, supposing
the supply from the British settlements at the Gambia were cut off?--I
think it would be more difficult.
6683. _Chairman._] Could you stop an American or a Hamburgh vessel going
in with the same produce?--Certainly not, nor would I stop an English
vessel, but I should wish to consider the means by which we might
separate the legitimate trade from the slave trade; my opinion is, that
the separation would be best effected by the occupation of Bulama, which
would put our merchants in a better position to trade themselves direct
with the natives.
6684. You consider then that the trade with Bissao is now thrown too
much into the hands of one man, who becomes a monopolist of the trade,
and who derives advantages from it in carrying on the slave trade, which
would not be derived if we had an entrepôt of our own, to which the
natives could resort for goods?--I do; instead of the trade passing all
through his hands, I would endeavour, by the occupation of such places
as Bulama, to create a rival trade between the English merchants and the
natives, instead of goods going, as they now do, through the hands of
Caetano and other slave dealers.
6685. You would not, by a legislative enactment, endeavour to prevent a
communication by British merchants with slave dealers, but you would
rather open other means of trade which were less likely to be
objectionable in their results, and thus rival the slave dealers?--Where
produce trade existed to any extent at all, I would trust to such
measures for the separation of the two; but there are some places where
there is no produce trade whatever, where, from one year’s end to
another, not a single piece of ivory, or a single gallon of palm oil is
exported. The Gallinas is a case in point; it is very true that British
vessels can supply goods to the Gallinas, but there is, I think, a
scandal in our ships supplying goods there, which does infinite harm to
our claim on other nations to abolish and make an end of the slave
trade.
6686. Mr. _Forster_.] How would you introduce British trade in produce
at the Gallinas unless you encouraged British traders to go there?--The
fact is, that wherever the slave trade exists people never turn to
legitimate traffic at all, unless the slave trade is insufficient to
supply their wants, or until the slave trade is stopped, or at least
checked, by forcible means. When the slave trade no longer supplies what
they want they are compelled to labour and raise produce, and they are
then ready enough to engage in lawful trade; but the goods now brought
are as much slave trade almost as the slaves that are exported.
6687. Are you not aware that in some places on the coast the slave trade
has been in a great measure, if not entirely, suppressed by the force of
commerce alone?--I do not know of any instance; in every case the first
step has been the suppression or the check of the slave trade, and then,
and not till then, do the natives labour to raise produce.
6688. Have you been to Popo lately?--I have been to Popo; the cruizers
at Popo first checked the slave trade, and then the slave dealers
preferred Whydah, which is in the neighbourhood, and they have since
taken to legitimate trade at Popo.
6689. Are you aware that there was a considerable slave trade formerly
from the Rio Nunez?--I am not particularly acquainted with the slave
trade that has been carried on from thence; I know that in the year 1835
there was no great amount of slave trade from thence.
6690. You are not then aware that since the establishment of British
factories there, the slave trade has entirely disappeared excepting in
the way you have referred to, by the visits of Portuguese canoes picking
up slaves in the neighbourhood?--I consider that simply produced by the
fact of Bissao being a more convenient place; slavers lie there in
perfect security under the walls of the Portuguese fort; they prefer
bringing their slaves from the Nunez, which they do in great numbers, in
canoes to Bissao, to shipping them direct from the Nunez, from whence
the passage and the escape is much more difficult than from Bissao.
6691. Is it your opinion then that the slavers would have the same
facility in procuring slaves at the place or near the place where a
British factory was established, as in any other part of the coast where
no such establishment existed?--I consider that the British factory
would never, unassisted, put down the slave trade in any way; I can
answer for the statement that I received from Mr. Benjamin Campbell, a
merchant in the Nunez, and formerly in the Pongas, a man of great
intelligence and great experience: his statement to me was, that
directly a slave vessel came in, his factory was abandoned; that nobody
would come near him when she was there; that the natives invariably
preferred slave commerce to legitimate commerce.
6692. Are you not aware that the whole of the Gold Coast is at present
dependent upon our settlements for the suppression of the slave trade,
and that if those settlements were removed, the slave trade would be
immediately resumed there?--I have no doubt whatever that the
settlements on the Gold Coast have put down the slave trade, but that
has been not by the unassisted force of commerce; it is because they
have an establishment and force, and are able to govern the natives; it
is not like a single merchant upon the banks of a river forming a
factory. I have a letter from Mr. Campbell here, in which he states that
when the natives hear of a slave vessel in the Pongas or Bissao, they
accuse the British merchants of driving away their trade. That I believe
to be an error on their part, especially as Mr. Campbell, in the same
letter, states that Caetano has two white agents in the river purchasing
slaves for him. I believe the reason that they go to the Bissao is
because they are more secure; but the slave trade with the Nunez is by
no means given up; dozens of canoes go every month with slaves.
6693. None are shipped there?--They are shipped in the canoes, and they
are taken to Bissao, because Bissao is a more convenient place for
sending them off.
6694. Would they not be shipped from Rio Nunez but for the presence of
the British factories?--I think they may throw some doubt over the minds
of people as to the probability of giving information, and so on; but I
believe the reason that the slave dealers prefer Bissao is what I have
stated; viz. the difficulty of escaping from the Nunez.
6695. If British factories, without a British fleet or any British
force, can have a beneficial tendency in suppressing the trade, does it
not follow that settlements with a British force, and British authority
to support them, would be still more efficient in suppressing that
trade?--That is undeniable; and I allow that the influence would be
beneficial in conjunction with the naval force, but I deny the power of
unassisted British factories in putting down the slave trade; I do not
believe that there is a single instance of it on the whole coast.
6696. Then if British factories and British commerce cannot have that
influence, you apprehend that a large British force will continue to be
necessary upon that coast?--That is not what I have stated; what I have
stated is, that they have never, unassisted, put down the slave trade;
wherever it is put down commerce instantly springs up: and there is the
strongest reason to suppose, that when the slave trade is put down
generally, commerce will be established throughout Africa; and when
legitimate trade exists as a habit of the people, in the course of time
I look to that legitimate trade putting an end to the slave trade for
ever.
6697. Mr. _Wortley_.] Your observation and experience have led you to
the decided conclusion that all attempts to suppress the slave trade by
inducing the natives to betake themselves to legitimate traffic would be
abortive, unless the direct suppression of the slave trade was
effectual?--Unless the slave trade was checked by other means; when it
is checked, commerce begins, and extends by degrees.
6698. _Chairman._] How would you carry out the principle of separation;
would you proceed to prohibit certain places which you considered to
have no other traffic than the slave trade till the slave trade should
have been to a certain amount checked, if not extirpated from that
place?--My opinion is, that there is a change required in the law. At
present, English merchant ships may supply slave factories, known to
every soul at Sierra Leone to be slave factories, and yet if they cannot
prove that the person who sold those goods for the purpose of buying
slaves, did actually and positively know in his own mind the fact of
those goods being certainly to be used in the slave trade, there can be
no conviction.
6699. In a case such as that of Canôt, who is a great produce dealer, as
well as a dealer in slaves, would you prohibit intercourse with him?--I
would not prohibit intercourse with any body: but in every case where it
was clearly proved that goods were sold to a person who it was well
known could only use those goods in the slave trade, and the slave trade
alone, that man’s character being perfectly notorious, I think that
British vessels supplying him with goods, ignorant of his character, and
from the want of the exercise of reasonable care and precaution, so
aiding and abetting the slave trade, should be subject to the penalties
of the Act.
6700. Speaking of this as a legal question to be provided for by Act of
Parliament, how would you decide the proportion of produce trade which
should entitle a foreign slave dealer, under such an Act of Parliament,
to carry on intercourse with British traders; unless you could define
that, would it not be easy for every slave dealer wishing to have that
intercourse, to carry on a trade in produce, however small, sufficient
to bring him within the permission given to deal with persons carrying
on trade lawfully as well as unlawfully?--I do not think that it would
be desirable to apply the provision very strictly; I think it would be
very injudicious to be searching and inquiring in every case, whether
the proceedings were of this character or not; but where there is a
glaring and an unquestionable case, such as any English merchant sending
goods to a slave ship, or to a factory where there is no other trade, I
think he should be punished, and I think that it is highly important to
the position which England holds upon this question with regard to
foreign nations; my proposition is, that if from want of reasonable care
he did not know that which was a notorious fact to every body else, he
should be subject to the penalties.
6701. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] The trade of which you are speaking is that
which is carried on with factories, notoriously used for the purpose of
the slave trade; would you apply the law to such places?--I can mention
a case which I think is a very strong one, the case of the Gallinas,
where, to my certain knowledge, cargoes to a great extent were brought
under the American flag, and other flags, solely for the purpose of
purchasing slaves, the freight for all those cargoes being paid for in
the Havannah, and without one single atom of produce being exported in
return. Now in my opinion it was open under the Act for a British
merchant ship to have carried all those goods to the Gallinas instead of
an American with perfect impunity, and such a course of trade would
bring the utmost scandal upon the English name, and the utmost doubt
upon the sincerity of our wishes to put an end to the slave trade. You
could not probably have proved to the satisfaction of juries at Sierra
Leone, that they were knowingly aiding and abetting the slave trade.
6702. Mr. _Forster_.] Then to render such a law effectual you must
induce all nations to enter into a common league to carry it out?--I
think not; my view is, that England must leave to other countries the
control of their own merchant vessels; but especially considering the
situation she holds with regard to the slave trade, I think she is bound
to prevent such a direct system of aiding and abetting slave trade on
the part of English vessels.
6703. Do you think, if England were to do so, that it would have any
real tendency to prevent the slave trader obtaining a supply of
goods?--Certainly not; as in this instance he got all those goods
without the assistance of the British flag; but had the British flag
been used, I think it would have been an abominable disgrace.
_Veneris, 24º die Junii, 1842._