Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Lord Viscount Courtenay.
Lord Viscount Ebrington.
Mr. Evans.
Captain Fitzroy.
Mr. Forster.
Mr. Hamilton.
Mr. Metcalf.
Mr. Milnes.
Mr. W. Patten.
Mr. Stuart Wortley.
LORD VISCOUNT SANDON in the chair.
_Henry William Macaulay_, Esq. called in; and further examined.
5003. _Chairman._] Will you state what has been your connexion and
acquaintance with the coast of Africa?--I went out to Sierra Leone first
in the early part of the year 1830 as a merchant, and at the latter end
of the year 1831 I was appointed one of the judges in the court of Mixed
Commission; I then left business and devoted myself entirely to the
business of the court; and I ceased to act as a judge on the 31st of
December, 1839.
5004. Since what time have you been at home?--I remained on the coast a
short time to recover my health. I was too unwell to move for some
months, and then went to the Island of Ascension, from which I came home
in the latter end of the year 1840.
5005. Will you state what the court of mixed commission consists
of?--The Portuguese court consists of a British commissary judge and a
Portuguese commissary judge, who have to decide upon every Portuguese
case; in case of any difference of opinion between the two principal
judges, the British commissioner of arbitration and the Portuguese
commissioner of arbitration draw lots as to which of the two the case is
to be referred to for final decision. In the same way, in the Spanish
court, the British commissary judge meets the Spanish commissary judge,
and in case of difference of opinion, the case is left to either the
British or Spanish commissioner of arbitration, as the lot may
determine.
5006. Are there any judges for other nations?--The courts at Sierra
Leone are the Portuguese court, the Spanish court, the Brazilian court,
and the Dutch court; but no court during my time has been perfect in the
number of its judges except the Brazilian court.
5007. You mean by perfect, that the British judge has had to sit
alone?--The treaties require that after a certain time, in the absence
of any foreign judge, the British commissioner of arbitration shall act
as the foreign commissary judge.
5008. Who is the British commissioner of arbitration; is he a distinct
person from the British commissary judge?--Yes; the British court is
always perfect.
5009. What does it consist of?--It consists of the British commissary
judge and the British commissioner of arbitration; and the treaties
point out how any vacancy, either by death or absence, is to be
supplied; the governor in the first instance, attends for the absent
judge, whoever he may be, and after him, the chief justice, and then the
colonial secretary. It is left to those three officers; but I presume
that if those three should all be ill, or their places be vacant by
death, the office would then descend to the person next in seniority in
the colonial government there; but we never went lower than the colonial
secretary. The Brazilian court has been the only one perfect, and the
British commissioner of arbitration has always sat in my time for the
Portuguese and Spanish commissary judges. No case at all has occurred in
the Dutch court.
5010. In case a vessel taken under the colours of any other nation were
brought into Sierra Leone, how would that case be decided?--There are
other treaties than those I have mentioned. A French case is sent to the
French authorities under the French treaty, and in the treaties with all
other nations that have treaties on the model of the French treaty, the
vessels are handed over to their own judicial authorities.
5011. Within Sierra Leone?--The treaty points out where they are to be
taken; if a French vessel is taken, it is sent to Goree.
5012. Then no vessels are brought in for adjudication to Sierra Leone
but Dutch and Portuguese, and Spanish and Brazilian vessels?--Not for
adjudication by the mixed commission; but there is the vice-admiralty
court, which under the late act relating to Portugal, for the
suppression of the slave trade, takes cognizance of vessels under that
flag which are captured; and may take cognizance of any vessels under
any flag that are captured in British waters, wherever they are taken,
whether at Sierra Leone, or the Gambia, or any British settlement on the
coast, and that has been rather frequent of late.
5013. The mixed commission court has jurisdiction over all cases which
are brought within the limits of the treaty with Portugal, and the
Vice-Admiralty Court in the Portuguese cases, over which we have assumed
jurisdiction by Act of Parliament, that is to say, all cases of vessels
captured south of the Line?--Yes; it is optional still for the captor to
prosecute a Portuguese vessel, captured under the Act of Parliament,
before the admiralty court, if he chooses, instead of bringing her
before the mixed commission court, but the process is so much more
summary with us, and the expense so much less, that that option is
seldom taken.
5014. Will you proceed to explain what is the process which is pursued
when a slaver is brought into Sierra Leone for adjudication?--Whenever a
vessel appears in the harbour under any of the flags of which we can
take cognizance, the marshal of the court goes on board, and he receives
from the prizemaster who is on board an account of the capture, which he
fills into a printed form, and he sends one of those printed forms to
each of the judges, and one to the governor, immediately; in fact,
generally before the vessel comes to anchor, and then the court is made
aware of the vessel being in the harbour, and is prepared to make
arrangements for the landing of the slaves, if there are any, generally
the morning after its arrival, if it comes in the evening, or if it
comes in early in the morning, the same day. The proctor for the captor
brings the papers of the vessel before the court, and they are always
accompanied by a declaration of the captor. All the forms of the court
are very much the same as those of the Admiralty Court in England. If
there are slaves, the proctor petitions for the admission of the vessel
into court, and generally accompanies that by a petition to land the
slaves; and since I have been there, in every case of inquiry the slaves
were landed and handed over to the superintendent of the African
department pending the investigation, and held in their character of
slaves during the time that the vessel was passing through the court.
The proctor then produces his witnesses, and they are examined upon
printed interrogatories, which have been used ever since the court was
formed. These questions are framed with a view to make out a case, and
they always do prove slave dealing wherever it has existed, if the
witness answers truly; and in an ordinary case, where slaves are on
board, no defence is ever attempted, it is out of the question. Then as
soon as the evidence is given, generally by the captain and one of the
officers of the captured vessel, the proctor prays for publication; and
when the monition which issues in the first instance, calling upon any
persons to bring forward a claim if they have any against the capture,
or to show cause why the vessel should not be condemned, is returned,
trial is prayed for, and it takes place on an early day after arrival of
the vessel; in an undefended case, and where the capture has been made
properly by the man-of-war, the vessel is condemned, the slaves are
emancipated at the same time; a commission of appraisement and sale
issues, which directs the particular officer of the court who has the
duty of conducting the auctions to expose both the vessel and the goods,
and any thing that may be on board, to public auction, after due notice
given. Those things are then sold, and the proceeds are divided equally
between the British Government and the foreign government, and the
proceeds are then paid into the commissariat, which settles with the
Government at home, and they pay the money, or set it off against any
claim they may have against the foreign government; but the foreign
government has a claim to one-half the proceeds of the vessels and
cargoes.
5015. Is there any large proportion of cases in which condemnation does
not follow, and under what circumstances principally has condemnation
not been the consequence?--There have been vessels restored for being
seized, for instance, Portuguese vessels from the southward of the Line,
contrary to treaty. In two cases there were vessels restored with
upwards of 8,000_l._ damages against the captors in each case, making
16,000_l._; and there was again one case of the Pepita, which I
remember, when it was proved that the slaves had been embarked under
circumstances that would not justify condemnation under the treaty; she
was restored with damages. There have been several cases under the
equipment article since the new slave treaty came into force, where
vessels have been restored because the equipment was not deemed
sufficient to warrant condemnation. There have been also vessels taken
on the suspicion that black persons on board were slaves, who have been
proved to be domestics, and not bought for the purpose of the traffic.
There have been a variety of condemnations; but in any case where the
treaty would not warrant condemnation, the vessel has been restored; and
where the treaty required it, restored with damages.
5016. Have there been a considerable number of restorations; can you
state, from statistics, the number?--I have statistics for two years;
from the 1st of January to the 31st of December 1838, one vessel only
was liberated.
5017. What number were condemned?--Forty-one; during the year 1839 there
were two liberated, and 45 condemned; and in addition to those, there
was a very large number of American vessels which were seized, with
American papers on board, and which I refused to receive into court at
all; there were some in 1838, and there was a large number in 1839.
5018. Can you state the number?--I think the number was 13; but the
reports of the whole of those cases are in the Parliamentary Papers.
5019. Were they _bonâ fide_ American?--I believe not American, in any
one case, but sailing under the American flag, and with American papers,
supplied to them by American authority.
5020. Where?--Almost entirely, I think, without one exception, at
Havannah.
5021. Supplied by the American consul?--Yes; but I considered that as
they sailed with those American papers, however wrongfully they might
have been given by the American authority, we had no right to interfere
with them.
5022. Mr. _Forster_.] Have not some vessels belonging to the States been
condemned?--Yes; since my time.
5023. You were not a party to the condemnation?--I was not.
5024. Mr. _W. Patten_.] But in those cases which you mention, you had
not the slightest doubt in the world that they would have been condemned
if they had not American papers on board?--Certainly they would, with
the exception of one case, which seemed to be a sort of experimental
seizure: it was known that almost every vessel on the coast under the
American flag, at that time was a Spanish vessel in disguise; and this
vessel seems to have been seized in the hope that the captain and
officers might be able to prove, by some evidence found on board, that
she was really Spanish; but though we had access to the papers, we found
nothing that would have condemned her if she had been prosecuted in the
court; there was a deficiency of papers on board; the captain, perhaps
had either destroyed them or concealed them, and we could not get at the
proof that would have enabled us to condemn her as being a Spanish
vessel; but none of the cases I speak of were prosecuted; I would not
allow them to be libelled in court.
5025. So that those cases do not appear upon the records of the
court?--No; but I took the opportunity of examining the papers, and
sending home all the particulars to the Foreign-office, and the papers
are copied in the Parliamentary Returns.
5026. Mr. _Forster_.] Will those seizures be matter of complaint on the
part of the owners?--I do not know that any of those seizures have been
matter of complaint; some of the seizures made subsequently have been.
5027. Seizures of vessels belonging to the United States?--Yes; but none
of those that came before me have been made matter of complaint.
5028. Are you aware that there are several cases of condemnation that
have been the subject of remonstrance with the British Government by the
United States?--I believe the whole of them are.
5029. _Chairman._] You have not heard that they complain of vessels
being brought in for condemnation to Sierra Leone which you did not
allow to be libelled in court?--No, except as regards the general right
which was exercised. There has been no complaint with respect to a
particular vessel, so far as I know; but complaints have been made of
the right which was exercised by cruizers on the coast to board any
American vessel and search it.
5030. Mr. _Aldam_.] Has the practice of the court been changed since
your time?--Yes, it was changed the day that I left; there was an
American vessel waiting at Sierra Leone for adjudication the day I left,
and the officer suspecting, that if presented to me, I should refuse her
in the same way as I had done the others, detained her till I left, and
she was condemned by my successor under orders from Lord Palmerston.
5031. Then the orders from Lord Palmerston changed the practice of the
court?--Yes.
5032. Do you know the nature of those orders?--The orders appear in the
printed correspondence.
5033. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Can you state briefly the nature of the
orders?--His Lordship stated that the Queen’s advocate was of opinion
that the court was justified in making use of information obtained by
the search of vessels under the American flag. The court had decided,
that having no right to search vessels sailing as American, and
recognised as American by American authorities, they could not make use
of any information which they obtained by unauthorised and illegal acts,
and Lord Palmerston considered that they had a right.
5034. _Chairman._] You held that the papers protected the vessel?--I
did.
5035. Mr. _Forster_.] Then it is those condemnations which are appealed
against at present by the American government?--I have not seen any
appeal of the American government except against the general right
exercised by the British cruizers.
5036. The complaint is, of seizing vessels as connected with the slave
trade, which, from their papers, ought not to have been subject to that
suspicion?--I am not aware of any appeal in any case of that kind.
5037. Mr. _Aldam_.] Have any vessels with strictly American papers been
condemned?--You can hardly call them strictly American papers where the
papers have been applied for, and given through fraud. The American
authorities at the Havannah who gave them, knew very well that the
vessel had no more claim to be styled an American vessel than a Dutch
vessel.
5038. _Chairman._] But as far as the documents themselves showed, those
vessels were American?--Yes, they had an American register, just in the
same form as any vessel sailing from New York, or Baltimore; indeed it
was a copy of the same document.
5039. What indication was there in other papers taken, to lead you to
know that the property was not _bonâ fide_ American?--It appeared, from
the very strict overhauling these vessels received from the cruizers,
that in many of those cases there were papers on board showing that the
man who appeared as the American captain was only a passenger, and that
the 30 Spanish passengers who took out passengers’ licences at Havannah
were the real crew; and there were also instructions, found on board, to
the pretended captain, what he was to answer to the cruizers when they
boarded him. The whole thing was a complete fraud without any doubt
whatever. There were many of those cases where it was quite plain that
the vessels were only Spaniards in disguise; that they only kept the
American flag until their cargo was ready. In some cases the vessels
that were boarded one day by the cruizers under the American flag, were
boarded two or three days afterwards with the Portuguese or Spanish flag
hoisted, and full of slaves.
5040. And condemned?--Yes.
5041. What was the object of hoisting the Spanish or Portuguese
flag?--If the vessels had been captured by a British cruizer with the
American flag hoisted, he would have carried them into America; and if
he did carry them into America, every man on board would have been hung
as a pirate.
5042. Had he authority to do so?--It _was_ done; the American
authorities did not complain of it.
5043. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Were they hung in that case?--No, there were no
slaves on board.
5044. Mr. _Aldam_.] Every ship of war has a right to capture a
pirate?--Yes.
5045. The law of the United States recognizes slavery as piracy?--Yes,
but it is not piracy by the law of nations, and indeed our own courts
have decided most positively on that point, that the slave trade is not
piracy by the law of nations; that it can only be punished by the
municipal law of the particular country to which the vessel belongs.
5046. Mr. _Forster_.] The class of condemnations to which you have
alluded are different from the cases which have taken place since you
left, under the direction of Lord Palmerston?--No condemnations took
place before the 1st of January, 1840; there were vessels condemned by
me that were captured under the American flag, and with American papers,
but they were taken in British waters, where British ships had a right
to visit and search the vessel, and the captor might make use of any
information he obtained in the search: when apparent American vessels
were boarded on the high seas, we deemed that the captor had not that
authority.
5047. _Chairman._] What do you consider British waters on the coast of
Africa; what would you for instance, on the Gold Coast, consider British
waters?--The waters of a nation are those within gun-shot of the shore;
generally reckoned three miles; it is the same all over the world.
5048. With regard to the Gold Coast, you are aware that our settlements
consist of several forts; do you consider the whole line of coast, from
end to end, along which our forts are planted, to be British water?--No,
for there are foreign forts there mixed with ours; but in every case we
have the sovereignty over three miles of the sea from our own
possession, wherever it may be, and the only ports to which a vessel
could go, have forts attached to them; a vessel lying at Accra, or lying
at Cape Coast, would be within three miles of the fort.
5049. If she was sailing along the coast, should you consider her to be
in British waters?--Where an indefinite authority is exercised along a
line of coast, without any real right, I do not consider those British
waters.
5050. You would consider as British waters only those which were a
certain distance from the fort?--Yes; the difficulty occurred in the
case of the Jack Wilding, one of the richest prizes that was made during
the year 1839; she was seized lying in British Accra roadstead, and she
was under the American flag; she was brought up to Sierra Leone, and
defended, on the ground that, though the vessel was in British waters,
she was within three miles of the Dutch fort, but we considered that
that could not make any difference, that we could not allow slave
trading within three miles of any acknowledged British fort, and we
condemned the vessel.
5051. Have you seen practical evil arise from the mixed commission being
fixed at Sierra Leone?--No, certainly not.
5052. Not as to the health of the slaves in the length of the voyage
from the place of seizure to the place of condemnation?--I believe that
there is a great misapprehension on this subject, which would be
corrected by a mere reference to the statistics of the trade; there
seems to be an impression that a very great majority of the cases of
capture are made to the eastward of Cape Palmas, and in the bights, but
a large number have been taken for many years past, and might always
have been taken, to the westward of Cape Palmas, and in the
neighbourhood of Sierra Leone.
5053. Is there any statement of the length of voyage of each vessel from
the time of its seizure to the time of its condemnation?--I do not think
there is any table drawn out; but in the printed reports the times and
places of capture are stated, which comes to the same thing; because,
where the vessels are captured in the immediate neighbourhood of Sierra
Leone, the voyage is very short, and in going through the reports the
number of days can be calculated. In the detailed reports which are
given of each case, the date of the capture is always mentioned, and the
date of arrival at Sierra Leone. In some cases the vessels are delayed
after capture, and you could not get an exact account; but in most cases
the difference between the date of capture and the date of arrival would
be the length of voyage.
5054. Mr. _Forster_.] Has not the great bulk of the seizures been made
in the bights and to the eastward of Cape Palmas?--Not a very large
majority during the last year, and before that a large portion were made
to the westward of Cape Palmas; and if that part of the coast had had
the number of cruizers that it ought to have had, there would have been
a much larger number of captures made there.
5055. _Chairman._] You think that the slave trade has gone on with
greater intensity to the westward of Cape Palmas?--With great intensity
in the Gallinas, which was unnoticed for some years; and, indeed, that
part of the coast was utterly neglected. The admiral and commanding
officers seemed to fancy that the slave trade could only be carried on
in the bights, but a great deal of slave trade was carried on to the
westward.
5056. Where?--In Gallinas, principally, New Sesters, Sherboro’; those
are the principal ports in that part; there are others smaller.
5057. For all those ports, of course, Sierra Leone you consider to be
the most advantageous position?--Certainly.
5058. Mr. _Forster_.] But in speaking of the amount of slave trade
carried on at those places which you have just named, do you speak of
those in comparison with the bights, and also with the Spanish and
Portuguese settlements to the south of the Line?--I speak of the amount
of captures that have been made there. The south was left very nearly in
the same state in which the north was. The cruizing of the squadron was
almost entirely confined to the bights.
5059. To the south of the Line they could not cruize, could they?--Yes,
they could cruize near the Portuguese settlements, for the court
practically got over the article in the treaty under which captures were
forbidden to the southward of the Line, by establishing, which they did
in 1838, the principle, that the national character of any vessel was to
be taken from the residence of the owner, the place where he carried on
his mercantile business, and also from the course of trade in which the
vessel was engaged; and as there could be no foreign Portuguese slave
trade, for Portugal has no colonies to supply with slaves, we were sure
to make the vessel either Brazilian or Spanish. She was captured under
Portuguese colours, and with Portuguese papers, but the treaty had given
us a right to search her any where, either north or south; it had not
given us the right to detain her south of the Line, if she was _bonâ
fide_ Portuguese; but if captured as a Portuguese vessel under the
Portuguese flag, and with Portuguese papers, she was sent up to Sierra
Leone, and was almost certain to be condemned either as a Brazilian or a
Spaniard.
5060. That decision was come to in 1838?--Yes.
5061. Before that time the impression had prevailed that the slave trade
from the Portuguese settlements was protected?--There was no seizure to
the south of the Line to render a decision necessary; vessels were
seized immediately close to the Line, in several cases, and it was never
thought of; that was before the Portuguese flag was so much used, and
the cause of the Portuguese flag being so much used by slavers, was the
Spanish treaty having given the right to seize, on the ground of
equipment; that did not take place till 1836. I was at home in that
year, and on my return in December 1837, I found that almost every
vessel on the coast was sailing under Portuguese colours, and then we
met this new circumstance by an alteration in the interpretation of the
treaty.
5062. Mr. _Aldam_.] If the owner had been a _bonâ fide_ Portuguese,
would the vessel have been still condemned?--If the owner had been a
Portuguese, resident in Havannah, we should have treated the vessel as a
Spanish vessel; and if at Rio Janeiro, we should have treated it as a
Brazilian vessel.
5063. But in the case of a Portuguese merchant resident in a Portuguese
possession, and carrying on his business there?--We should have looked
at the course of trade in which the vessel was engaged, and the
Portuguese having no colonies would not require slaves.
5064. Mr. _Forster_.] Do you consider the Spanish and Portuguese
settlements to the south of the Line the places at which the slave trade
will be last overcome?--The part of the coast at which the slave trade
is carried on depends entirely on the cruizers; you may knock up the
slave trade on any part of the coast you please, if the cruizing is
properly conducted. The largest slave trade on the coast was the slave
trade at the Gallinas; by the system of blockade that Captain Denman
adopted there, he completely destroyed it.
5065. That blockade must be continued to make it permanent in its
results?--Yes; and he never went away for water or provisions, without
leaving a vessel to supply his place. He could always regulate the time
that he should remain, knowing of course, to a day, how long his water
and provisions would last him.
5066. But to render that remedy effectual and permanent, vessels of war
must continue at the Gallinas?--Yes; but if you blockade the rivers,
where the slave trade has been carried on for a number of years, and
completely shut up the slave trade for a year or two, you destroy the
system of slave trade in that part.
5067. _Chairman._] You think the machinery cannot be re-established in
that part?--It may be re-established, but in the meantime there is no
mart for the slaves; they are brought down and lodged in the barracoons,
and the feeding of the slaves completely ruins the slave owner.
5068. Mr. _Forster_.] What is there to prevent the system being resumed
there unless you continue the blockade of the place?--There is nothing.
5069. Then it is upon the blockade of the settlements that the success
of the cruizers depends, and not upon the destruction of the
barracoons?--Exactly; by blockade, I do not mean shutting out legitimate
trade, but preventing any vessel fitted for the slave trade going in,
and preventing any vessel with slaves coming out.
5070. _Chairman._] Do you believe that if you blockade a port,
materially interfering with the slave trade for a considerable period,
you obstruct it even for some time afterwards?--I think you do; and I
think the people are so accustomed to the goods which they procure from
slave dealers that they will get them if they can by other means.
5071. Then you think, that if you can blockade for a certain time, and
put an end to the power of procuring what the natives desire by the
slave trade, that their taste will have to be gratified by lawful
traffic, and that that will make it less necessary for them afterwards
to have recourse to the slave trade?--Certainly.
5072. Mr. _Forster_.] By such destruction as took place in the case of
Gallinas, do you not interfere with the course of the legitimate trade,
as well as with the course of the slave trade?--I am not speaking of the
destruction of a settlement.
5073. Had not the operations of Captain Denman the effect of destroying
the stores, and in fact the whole settlement?--He destroyed the
barracoons; but no one ever kept in barracoons any thing but slaves.
5074. Was not also a considerable property in merchandize
destroyed?--Yes, so it appears by the Parliamentary papers. At that time
there was no trade whatever carried on at Gallinas except in slaves;
there was no legitimate trade at all, I believe.
5075. Do you mean that there was no legitimate trade carried on at the
Gallinas previous to the destruction of that place by Captain Denman?--I
believe, none whatever; there was certainly none with its nearest large
port, which was Sierra Leone; the only trade carried on between the two
places was of a very questionable character.
5076. Were not Hamburg vessels and other foreign vessels constantly in
the habit of visiting Gallinas for the purpose of legitimate trade
previous to the destruction of the settlement?--I am not aware that they
did.
5077. I thought you told the Committee in a late answer, that there was
no legitimate trade carried on there?--From Sierra Leone; but whether
Hamburg vessels went direct to Gallinas, I do not know; from Sierra
Leone, I do not believe that any legitimate trade was carried on with
the Gallinas.
5078. What opportunities had you at Sierra Leone of knowing the course
of trade to Gallinas?--I was in Sierra Leone, where there were a large
number of small coasting vessels employed, and those who brought back
produce did not go to Gallinas for it.
5079. But had you any opportunity of knowing the nature and extent of
the legitimate trade there by foreign vessels, independently of Sierra
Leone?--No; but I have always understood, (it is only from hearsay I
mention this,) from the men-of-war on the coast, that every vessel they
have found lying in the harbour there, has been engaged in the slave
trade in some way or other, as American vessels bringing over goods from
the Havannah for the supply of factories, or bringing out equipments to
be carried away by slavers when they were full.
5080. You have stated that previously to the destruction of Gallinas by
Captain Denman, no trade had been carried on between the Gallinas and
Sierra Leone, except such as was of a very questionable nature?--I have.
5081. Was that questionable trade to a considerable extent?--No, not
with Sierra Leone; but trading vessels that came along the coast have
called at Sierra Leone, and gone down the coast afterwards, and probably
put into Gallinas amongst other ports; but directly with Sierra Leone
the trade was very little indeed.
5082. Up to what period did this questionable trade between Sierra Leone
and Gallinas continue?--It continued as long as I was connected with the
colony, that is, to the 31st of December, 1839; but we always looked
with suspicion upon any merchant there that was connected with that
place.
5083. Is it within your knowledge that up to that time the slave
dealers, by themselves, or their agents, were in the habit of
frequenting Sierra Leone, and making purchases there for the supply of
Gallinas?--They generally made their purchases, I believe, through some
merchant resident at Sierra Leone; one in particular; they generally had
one merchant at a time, I believe, who was employed by them.
5084. _Chairman._] Making purchases of prize goods?--Yes, and sometimes
of vessels; a vessel that might be put up to auction there he would bid
for, and have it sent down to Gallinas; and I have no doubt goods also.
5085. Was he a white merchant, or a black, who was so employed?--He was
a white merchant, an English merchant.
5086. Who was he?--The name is mentioned in the Parliamentary Papers, as
being connected with the purchase of a slave vessel, Mr. Kidd; and it is
mentioned in connection with that of Mr. Zulueta, of London.
5087. Can you refer to the passage?--It appears at the 38th page of the
class (B.) of the papers on the subject of the slave trade, presented to
Parliament 1839-40. Zulueta, the gentleman in London to whom the vessel
was sent, and who sold her again to her former Spanish owner, is a name
well known on the coast in connexion with the slave trade; any man ought
to have been careful of being connected with such a person as that. I
have seen the same vessels over and over again in the slave trade; you
can detect them when you get accustomed to the form and build of the
vessels.
5088. Mr. _Forster_.] Were not those vessels sold to the best
bidder?--Yes.
5089. Do not you think that the fault was with those who sold them
originally, and not those who bought them?--No; you are not bound to
suppose that a man will make a bad use of that which he purchases.
5090. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Are those vessels generally bought by the same
person?--Mr. Kidd purchased vessels only during the latter part of the
time I was there, for he was not in the colony when I first went there;
he was looked upon as the person employed by the Gallinas slave dealers
to transact their business at Sierra Leone.
5091. _Chairman._] To purchase vessels and goods?--Yes.
5092. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Is Mr. Kidd the person you alluded to just now,
who generally purchased the vessels at auction?--No, they were generally
purchased by various people; he purchased a few of them.
5093. Mr. _Forster_.] Would Mr. Zulueta, if he had entered the
auction-room, have been at liberty to bid for the purchase of that
vessel?--Certainly; by the treaty it is required that the goods seized
shall be exposed to public auction for the benefit of the two
governments.
5094. How do you make it out to be criminal in Mr. Kidd to do that which
it was innocent for the auctioneer on the part of the British Government
to do?--The auctioneer is required to do it by his duty, he is appointed
for that purpose under the Act of Parliament; he sells to any body who
will purchase; of course, the responsibility of the employment of the
purchase rests with the purchaser.
5095. Then it is the fault of the Government, not of the auctioneer?--It
is not the fault of the auctioneer; nor do I consider it any fault of
the British Government; it is no fault to purchase goods, but to use
them unlawfully is wrong; it is the use which he makes of the vessel
after purchasing it that is wrong.
5096. How could it be criminal in Mr. Kidd to sell the vessel to Mr.
Zulueta when you see no fault in the British Government doing the same
thing?--The British Government is obliged to do it under the treaty;
there is no compulsion on Mr. Kidd to sell his vessel to a slave dealer,
he may sell it to any body.
5097. According to that doctrine, the British Government is obliged to
act criminally?--No, certainly not; I do not think it follows. The
treaty requires that goods and vessels shall be exposed at auction; the
responsibility of the employment of those goods or vessels which are
sold, I think, rests with the purchaser; he may employ them lawfully,
and I have purchased a vessel at auction myself, in former days, when I
was engaged in business; but if I had taken that vessel and sold her to
a slave dealer, I should think that I did wrong.
5098. But you admit that the public auctioneer would have sold the same
vessel to the same party whom Mr. Kidd sold her to?--Certainly.
5099. _Chairman._] You meant to say that the auctioneer had no choice
to whom he should sell her, and Mr. Kidd had?--The auctioneer had no
choice; the Act is imperative, and requires him to sell to the highest
bidder, for the benefit of the two governments.
5100. Mr. _Aldam_.] Did Mr. Kidd sell his vessel to a slave dealer or to
a Spanish house, who subsequently sold it to a slave dealer?--It appears
in some of the records that in some cases he sold vessels direct to the
slave dealers.
5101 Are those vessels worth more to a slave dealer than if used for any
other purpose?--Certainly.
5102. How then is it possible to prevent the ships being applied to that
purpose for which they are worth more than for any other?--Spanish ships
are prevented from being used for the trade by being cut up when they
are condemned.
5103. Mr. _Evans_.] But you have no power of doing so with the
Portuguese ships?--No.
5104. Mr. _Aldam_.] Those vessels, from their small size, are not worth
much for other trades?--There are some trades that they are adapted for,
the fruit trade for instance, and they are employed in the smuggling of
opium and such trades as those; they are not capable of carrying large
burdens.
5105. In all cases it will answer the purpose of the merchant to give a
larger price for those ships to be employed in the slave trade than for
any other purpose?--Yes, probably.
5106. Viscount _Ebrington_.] Have you ever considered what the result
would be of the British Government buying those ships in?--It would be
impossible to buy them all in.
5107. All that are not liable to be broken up?--No. During last year,
for instance, the number condemned was so large, that the Government, if
they had bought them, could not have found a use for them.
5108. Mr. _Forster_.] Have you any doubt that those vessels have been
sometimes knocked down by the auctioneer to agents of the slave traders
on the coast?--It may have been so, and I have no doubt it has; I do not
recollect a case at present, but I would have insisted upon it, as head
of the court, that it should have been knocked down to any one who made
the highest bid.
5109. It is your opinion also, that the prize goods have been frequently
sold in the like manner?--Some portion of them, but certainly not the
bulk of them.
5110. Was there any thing to prevent the whole of them being sold to the
slave dealers, or the agent of the slave dealers?--Nothing whatever.
5111. Had you opportunities of observing, up to the time you left Sierra
Leone, whether the agents of the slave dealers on the neighbouring coast
frequently appeared in the market of Sierra Leone as purchasers of goods
or vessels?--Not often; if the goods came into their hands it was
through a third person generally. I have heard of Spaniards going down,
and bidding for the vessels, but it was not an ordinary occurrence.
5112. Then you are of opinion that usually slave dealers at Gallinas did
not visit Sierra Leone for the purpose of making purchases of goods or
vessels?--Not in their own persons, they may have done it through a
third party; but, perhaps, it would shorten the questions to state that
the greater portion of the goods sold at the auctions captured from
vessels in the slave trade were purchased by liberated Africans, by the
hawkers there, and they made the best use of them. That a certain
portion of the goods so purchased at auctions may get into the hands of
slave dealers afterwards, is very possible; but I am convinced, from the
description of goods which are sold, which may be used in lawful trade,
and from the different appearance of the whole colony since goods were
sold so extensively, that the greater portion of them are consumed in
the colony, and are made use of in the lawful trade, by liberated
Africans in the neighbourhood. I consider that the colony has been very
much benefited indeed by those sales; that the condition of the
liberated Africans has been very much improved by them, as has been very
evident from the great wealth that has been stirring among them; and the
liberated Africans have now not only completely bought out the Maroons
and settlers, who were the original settlers of the place, but are
gradually driving out the white merchants; and I think it a very great
advantage, for they are able to live much more cheaply than the white
men can do; they carry on their business at one hundredth part of the
expense, and turn their money over very much more quickly.
5113. Are any precautions taken by the authorities at Sierra Leone to
prevent slave dealers obtaining goods at Sierra Leone, either by public
auction or in any other manner?--Certainly not.
5114. Mr. _W. Patten_.] You have stated that there was an illicit trade
going on between Sierra Leone and Gallinas; are there any other
circumstances than those you have mentioned, that you can adduce in
proof of that?--None; in the trade that has been just referred to, of
Spaniards and Portuguese at Gallinas sending up to purchase goods at
auctions, they have done so, and they have been sent down to them
through a third party, but it is seldom they appear themselves.
5115. You do not, of your own knowledge, know what is the connection
between Mr. Kidd and any individuals at Gallinas?--No.
5116. Nor of any other merchant at Sierra Leone?--No.
5117. Do you believe that they act as commission merchants to purchase
goods?--Yes; I suppose on commission.
5118. Is there any trade carried on by any merchant on his own account
with the Gallinas?--I should think that very likely too; but it is
impossible to know, for after vessels have gone outside the Cape they
may carry their goods any where: you do not know what becomes of them.
5119. Mr. _Forster_.] Do you think it would be desirable to impose any
restriction upon legitimate trade to Gallinas?--I think not; I think no
restriction upon trade should be imposed, even on the intercourse
between the two places.
5120. Mr. _W. Patten_.] How would you distinguish the legitimate from
the illegitimate trade?--You cannot distinguish it; and there I think
the danger lies of attempting to interfere with intercourse.
5121. Mr. _Forster_.] And therefore, in attempting to check or impede
the one, you would do more harm than good in repressing and discouraging
the other?--I think it very probable; I think it would be quite
impossible to draw the line.
5122. But supposing it to be possible, do you think it would be, in
fact, desirable to take any measures which would have the effect of
checking the progress of legitimate trade?--Certainly not.
5123. Were there any Hamburgh vessels condemned at Sierra Leone?--Not in
my time.
5124. Mr. _Hamilton_.] Do you think that the establishing such a
blockade on the coast as you have alluded to just now, would have the
effect of interfering with legitimate trade?--No, not such a blockade as
I alluded to; I think the natives are well aware of the design for which
the cruizers are on the coast, they would consider their presence rather
as a protection, than otherwise, to the legitimate trade.
5125. Mr. _Forster_.] Were not large quantities of tobacco and rum sold
at Sierra Leone from the prize vessels conveyed there leeward for sale
to the Sierra Leone merchants?--Yes; I believe there were several
cargoes of Brazilian tobacco and of spirits sent down the coast: I
believe, principally to Badagry and that neighbourhood.
5126. That tobacco was, of course, especially imported on the coast for
the purpose of the slave trade?--It was taken out of slave vessels;
therefore, of course, it was.
5127. When it arrived at Badagry, it would consequently be very
acceptable to slave dealers there?--Yes; but they had to pay for it.
5128. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Did you find when you were at Sierra Leone that
the price paid for goods at auctions exceeded or was below the price of
goods imported in other ways?--The necessary effect of such large
quantities of goods being thrown on the market, and compelled to be sold
at any rate to the highest bidder, was of course to lower the price; and
I consider that the very cheap rate at which the liberated Africans were
able to procure those goods, which, in former times, they could only
obtain at a high price, was what formed the advantage which they derived
from those sales.
5129. How do you account for it, that the merchants at Sierra Leone do
not themselves purchase those goods?--They have not the money; in fact,
they have no money at all. There are only one or two men that have any
money in the place; they are almost all men who receive their goods from
houses in England; they are generally very much in debt to the persons
who send goods to them; and the only parties who have money in the
colony, with the exception of two gentlemen, are liberated Africans, and
many of the latter have very large sums.
5130. Mr. _Forster_.] Has the trade at Sierra Leone not, in your
opinion, been a successful trade for some years?--It has been a
successful trade for the liberated Africans.
5131. The question applied to British traders?--I cannot say; I have not
been engaged in trade myself during that time; but I should think that
the English traders must have suffered by the goods which were thrown on
the market from slave vessels, whilst they had goods which were
purchased at a much dearer rate to dispose of, and had not the money to
purchase the low-priced goods there. But one case I can mention, where a
white merchant at Sierra Leone had the funds to go into the market and
compete with the liberated Africans; he has made a great deal of money
by it, and the more in consequence of his means being so superior to
those of the Africans; but that was because he had money: the losses of
the others were because they had none.
5132. You have spoken of the advantages to the black population from the
sale of those goods, which have led them to become hawkers and pedlars
in the neighbouring country; it is the fact that the natives of Africa
are very much disposed to that species of employment in preference to
agricultural labour?--It certainly is so at Sierra Leone.
5133. Then the advantages derived from the encouragement thus given to
them to embark in that species of employment in preference to the fixed
pursuits of agriculture may be questionable on that ground?--I think
not; I think if the liberated African can get money and can educate his
family well, and procure all that he wants by trade, it is just as well
as if he procured it by agriculture.
5134. Have you found them practically carrying on any regular system of
agriculture voluntarily?--Not for export: there have been some articles
cultivated, but to no very great extent: ginger, and pepper, and
cassada, but cultivation has not been carried to any great extent for
export at Sierra Leone.
5135. How do you account for cultivation and improvement having made so
little progress in Sierra Leone after all the efforts of the party in
this country, and all the money which has been expended upon it?--I
doubt the proposition contained in the question; I think that they have
made progress.
5136. Planting and cultivation is carried on there to a great
extent?--No, it is not; but the people have other means of procuring
what they require.
5137. Have any means been taken, or if taken, have they been successful,
for promoting any regular system of agriculture or planting in the
neighbourhood of Sierra Leone?--No, I think not, and I am very sorry for
it; I think more might have been done in the way of premiums upon
produce, and giving prizes for successful cultivation.
5138. In fact, has any thing been done in that way?--Nothing whatever, I
believe, of late years. There was an agricultural society that existed
many years before I went to the colony, which offered premiums, but the
members of it died, and the scheme fell to the ground.
5139. The attempts of that society, in fact, were not successful?--No;
it was before my time; I cannot speak positively to the efforts that
were made; it is a great many years ago now.
5140. Can you distinguish the amount of captures to the south and north
of the Line?--Yes; in 1838, 15 out of 30 vessels, either were captured,
or took on board their slaves to the westward of Cape Palmas, or
one-third of the vessels which were detained with full cargoes of
slaves on board, or four out of seven, if we only look to the vessels
detained in the West Indies. The whole, or very nearly, of the slave
trade carried on in the north, or rather west of Cape Palmas, is for the
supply of the island of Cuba, and generally on account of the Havannah
merchants. In the following year, “of the 61 vessels which passed
through the courts during the year 1839, three were captured in the West
Indies, the remainder on this coast, eight to the southward of the Line,
but none below the latitude of 4 deg. 58 min. south, and of 50 vessels
captured north of the Line, 30 were met with to the eastward and 20 to
the westward of Cape Palmas.”
5141. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Does not the return distinguish from what part
of the coast those vessels came?--Yes; it goes into all the particulars
of the places from which they came, and the places to which they went,
and to which they took their cargoes; 18 of the whole number had slaves
on board, 11 having shipped their slaves in parts to the eastward of
Cape Palmas, and seven to the westward of the same point, and the river
where they shipped them is mentioned.
5142. Mr. _Forster_.] Supposing that the time should arrive when the
greatest number of prize vessels should be brought from the southward,
would you in that case consider Sierra Leone to be the place best
adapted for the mixed commission?--If that arose from the slave trade
being permanently at an end in the north, I should say, that the
commission should certainly follow the course of the slave trade.
5143. Mr. _W. Patten_.] From the position you held, had you any
information, officially or otherwise, of knowing the state of the slave
trade to the south of the Line?--No, except what I got from papers found
on board detained vessels, and from conversation with naval officers.
5144. From information so obtained, were you led to believe that the
slave trade on the coast of Africa, taking both the east and west coast,
had increased or decreased during the period you were there?--It had
decreased in the bights, so as to be almost entirely destroyed at one
time.
5145. The question refers to the coast on the south of the Line?--When
it was suppressed to a great extent in the bights, it was driven both
north and south of the bights; the old slave trade rivers in the bights
were the principal places frequented by slave vessels, but the whole
efforts of the cruizers were directed to that point, and the trade was
almost entirely suppressed in those rivers, the Bonny and many others.
5146. You had no information which could enable you to judge whether the
slave trade on the whole had increased or decreased during your
residence at Sierra Leone?--I should say, that it decreased during the
last two years I was there, from the immense number of captures that
were made.
5147. It has been stated by a witness on the Committee, Captain
Bosanquet, that in his belief, the slave trade south of the line, has
increased materially during the last 10 years?--I think Captain
Bosanquet refers to the eastern coast.
5148. Captain Bosanquet stated that he was, at two periods, on the
coast, and that at the last period he found the slave trade going on
with much more violence than at the first?--The effect of the
suppression of the slave trade in the bights was to drive the slave
trade both north and south, and it increased in the north and south, but
I should say that the whole extent of the slave trade had decidedly
decreased during the last two years.
5149. Do you think that it is a very material decrease?--I do.
5150. Do you know any particular places on the coast to which slavers
have resorted, more especially since it has been so much checked on the
west coast north of the Line?--It increased to the south; there have
been many more Brazilian captures made in the rivers immediately south
of the Line, of late years, than there were before; but the great
diminution in the bights has not been made up by the increased slave
trade either north or south.
5151. Mr. _Stuart Wortley_.] Will you explain what period you refer to
when you use the expression, “of late years”?--In the years 1835 and
1836, it began to diminish, and in 1837 there was hardly any slave trade
at all in the bights.
5152. Then, I understand you to say that there has been an increase of
captures south of the Line since the years 1835 and 1836?--Yes, there
has been.
5153. Could the capture of vessels under Portuguese colours have taken
place till 1836?--It could have taken place if the same rule had been
applied then as was applied in 1838.
5154. But in fact were there any captures made?--No, the rule was not
applied till 1838.
5155. Then when you speak of the increase of captures since 1835, you
mean that the practice of making captures south of the Line has been
introduced since that period?--Yes; and I would observe with respect to
that, that the Act of Parliament for the suppression of the Portuguese
slave trade really did very little good. I am alluding to the Act which
was passed in order to catch vessels south of the Line, because we
already dealt with them in the way I have mentioned, and the only trade
the Act could possibly affect, was the trade carried on between the
Portuguese islands off the coast and the main-land.
5156. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] Do you mean Prince’s Island?--Prince’s Island
and St. Thomas.
5157. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Seeing that the sale of those goods at auctions
conduces in some degree to the continuance of the slave trade on that
coast, can you point out any other means by which those goods can be
disposed of without contributing to the encouragement of that trade?--I
do not see how it is possible to form regulations which shall follow the
goods through all the hands into which they pass.
5158. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] Could they be sold elsewhere?--Yes, there is
trade on the coast; but I think it would be very injurious to interfere
with trade.
5159. Mr. _Patten_.] Do you think that if the captors of the slave
vessel were allowed to take the vessels and cargoes, they having been
condemned, and sell them in any other country, they might not make
greater gains than they do by selling them on the spot?--It is possible
that they might make greater gains, but it would be impossible for the
court to allow goods that have been once submitted to their jurisdiction
regularly to pass into other hands for disposal. When the goods are
condemned, they are placed under the authority of the marshal, to be
dealt with according to the decision of the court; it cannot allow that
decree to be carried into effect by any other than its own officers.
5160. According to the present law, it cannot; but do not you think that
arrangements might be made by which the parties making the capture might
derive greater benefit from the capture, by being enabled after the
condemnation to dispose of the goods in another country?--I think the
captors would not benefit by such a regulation; it would take them away
from their cruizing stations, where they have an opportunity of making
other captures.
5161. Have you not heard complaints made by the captors of the very
little benefit they obtain from it?--Yes; but I think without good
grounds.
5162. Can you state what is the highest amount that you have heard of
paid to a cruizer for the capture of a slaver?--I do not know any thing
of the reward given in England; it does not come before us in any way
whatever; that is an affair between the captor and the Government. But
it is not the captor, strictly speaking, that is injured in this case;
for the captor, as far as the court is concerned, has no interest
whatever; the goods are not condemned as a prize to the captor, but as a
prize to the British and foreign Governments, and the British Government
may pay or withhold its moiety, if it pleases. It generally gives it to
the captor, but it is in its power to pay any smaller sum. The captor
has no claim, except upon the bounty of Government, with respect to the
goods sold at auctions.
5163. But does it not come to this, that the remuneration paid to the
captor depends upon the value of the cargo which he captures?--Where a
captor has seized a cargo, it does; but cases vary very much; for
instance, many vessels are seized quite empty, without any cargo; many
vessels come over without any cargo, I should say the great proportion.
Where a vessel is full of slaves, the interest of the captor is not
affected, because the bulk of his remuneration depends upon the
head-money he gets for the slaves.
5164. Can you account for this circumstance, that in a return made to
Parliament, in the list of vessels that have been sold, it appears that
the proceeds or effects of one vessel have amounted to 1,108_l._, and
the charges on the sale have amounted to 585_l._ out of the
1,108_l._?--It seems very enormous, but I must know the circumstances of
the case.
5165. This is the passage, “On the following cases of slave trade
vessels sent in for adjudication to the commission courts of Sierra
Leone by Captain Tucker of Her Majesty’s ship Wolverine, the charges
here detailed were made: The San Antonia Victirioso, a Brazilian vessel,
the proceeds and effects of that sale were 1,108_l._, and the charges on
the sale were 585_l._”?--I cannot account for it; it did not happen in
my time; I should know the name of the vessel if it had.
5166. _Chairman._] Can you, from your knowledge of the usual course of
proceeding, explain the circumstances under which such a charge could
have arisen?--No; I know what the expenses are likely to be, and I might
account for a portion of it in that way.
5167. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Will you state the expenses in detail?--The
expenses on Brazilian vessels were enormous, owing to the duty that was
levied at Sierra Leone by the customs, on spirits and tobacco. The
spirits and tobacco that are sent in Brazilian slave vessels are of a
very inferior quality indeed, and the duty levied is very high; in many
cases exceeding the value of the goods; so much so, that I took it upon
myself a short time before I gave up my situation, to abandon the whole
of several cargoes of spirits and tobacco to the custom-house, because
the goods would not sell at the auction for the amount of the duty. I
thought that the captors had great reason to complain; but subsequently
to that, an Act was passed by the Governor in Council there, which was
brought in by myself, to meet this exigency, and since that time I do
not think that the captors have any reason to complain about the duty
levied on those goods.
5168. _Chairman._] What was the nature of the Act you allude to?--It put
on an _ad valorem_ duty instead of a fixed duty; the value of the
articles alluded to was so small, that when you put a fixed duty upon
them, a duty that was framed to meet tobacco and spirits from England,
which were of a very different quality, they were hardly worth any thing
beyond the duty; and I should suppose that was the principal cause of
the heavy charges now referred to; but I know nothing of the case.
5169. Mr. _W. Patten_.] To take another case: the Palmira, a Spanish
vessel was captured, the effects produced 1,824_l._, and 582_l._ were
the charges?--That is not in my time.
5170. _Chairman._] Do you explain that by the same circumstance?--No;
not knowing any thing of the circumstances of the case, I cannot explain
it; the vessel may have been detained for several months at the desire
of the captor; but I am quite sure that, with the exception of one or
two items, and heavy items, of which the captors, I think, _had_ a right
to complain, and over which the court had no control, the expenses were
not unreasonably heavy.
5171. What other items had they reason to complain of besides the one
you have mentioned, of the heavy duty upon the article?--With regard to
translating documents. I pressed this evil very strongly upon the
Government at home, and they have remedied that since. It was found that
very great benefit arose to the court from translating all documents
almost that were found on board detained slavers, because, in
consequence of those translations, we were able to condemn many vessels
which would have escaped if it had not been for the translation of
papers found on board former vessels, which gave a full history of the
transactions in which those vessels subsequently taken were engaged. The
translations were made at a heavy expense, and were included in the
captor’s expenses, and it could not be avoided; it fell very heavily,
indeed, upon the captors; and I recommended that the translator should
be adopted by the court, and paid in the same way as other officers of
the court, and that his remuneration should be charged in the contingent
expenses, which are borne equally by the British Government and the
foreign Government, so as to relieve the captors altogether. The court
felt a delicacy when they would have wished to have a translation of
particular papers, in having it done, because the expense fell so very
heavily upon the captors.
5172. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Doctor Madden recommends that “the captors
should be allowed to furnish their own interpretation of the documents
that require to be translated, subject to the approval and revision of
the British Commissioners?”--That is impossible, you can never allow a
man to interpret in his own cause. If you left it to the captor to
decide upon what papers he would have translated, he would have none
translated, if the condemnation of his vessel was secure without it; but
now there is no inducement to captors to withhold papers, because the
whole expense of the translation is at present borne by the Government.
5173. _Chairman._] In consequence of suggestions made to the Government
here?--Yes; in consequence of suggestions made in 1839.
5174. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Doctor Madden also says, “in many cases more
than half the prize-money that the captors had reason to expect is
swallowed up in the charges made by the various officers at Sierra Leone
employed in taking care, and ultimately disposing of the effects of the
captured vessel.” Do you know what are the charges that would come under
the other charge?--Yes.
5175. Can you distinguish those from the charges you have mentioned?--In
the case of an empty Spanish vessel, it is not at all likely that the
captor will receive much from the sale of the vessel or effects, because
the vessel is cut up into a number of different parts, and those are
sold for fire-wood in a country where fire-wood is tolerably plentiful;
and, therefore, the expenses that are incurred previously to cutting up,
will absorb any thing that can be derived from the old vessel cut up and
sold as fire-wood. As far as the goods are concerned, the only charge,
besides the duty, is the commission of the commissioner of appraisement
and sale, which the captor would have to pay whoever sold the vessel,
without having the security which he possesses now of having a good man,
or the richest merchant in the place as the person answerable for the
money, because in appointing the commissioner of appraisement and sale,
the Court takes bond to a very large amount, that he shall account
properly for the proceeds of the goods sold; he charges the ordinary
commission, 5 per cent., and 2½ per cent. for expenses; and I believe
that there is no other charge except the pay of the Kroomen, employed as
labourers, and the marshal.
5176. Mr. _Forster_.] Do you think Dr. Madden’s complaint upon the
subject correct?--“The intervention of the whole present establishment
of marshals, collectors, surveyors, interpreters, harbour-masters,
agents, storekeepers, canoe-hirers, and victuallers of captured ships’
crews might be dispensed with.” I do not know what he means by
“marshals;” we have only one marshal for the court. There is only one
collector of customs, and with him we have nothing to do; he is the
officer of the Crown, who collects the same duties from these vessels
as he would do from any other vessels; we have no control over him; he
is independent of the court; the surveyor is not employed by the court,
but subsequently to the condemnation of the vessel, he is employed by
the captor to survey, in order to enable him to make a claim according
to the tonnage, through his agent in England; that is a question with
which we have nothing to do. The interpreter is paid by the court; he
gets 5_s._ for each examination, or something of that kind; he is a poor
man; they could not get it cheaper done, and there is no hardship in
that. The harbour-master charges exactly the same for a prize-vessel as
he does for an English vessel; there is a regular fee, under an Act of
the Governor and Council; we do not collect it. I do not know who are
meant by “agents,” or “storekeepers,” or “canoe-hirers;” I do not know
whom he refers to there.
5177. Mr. _W. Patten_.] You do not know of any charges connected with
those departments that you have read over?--I know nothing about
“agents” and “storekeepers.” There may be a charge where goods are kept,
but I do not recollect a cargo ever having been kept, for it is landed
and sold immediately; the auctioneer is obliged to sell it under the
regulations within a certain time. There are canoes employed to land the
cargo by the marshal and by “victuallers of captured ships’ crews.” I do
not know whom he means.
5178. Is there any expense thrown upon captured vessels in case of
slaves being brought on shore, for the maintenance of the slaves after
they are put on shore?--I mentioned in the early part of my evidence
that on their being landed they were handed over to the liberated
African department, to be kept as slaves until adjudication. They are
fed by the liberated African department at the ordinary rate at which
the other liberated Africans in the yard are fed; and when the vessel is
condemned, the liberated African department brings to the marshal his
account for feeding them, at the same rate which is charged for other
liberated Africans; I think it is 1½_d._ per head per day, or something
of that kind; and there is a further charge, I think, of 4_d._ or 6_d._
per day in the hospital; those are expenses over which the court has no
control.
5179. Is any of that charge made upon the share which goes to the
captors?--Yes; it comes out of the proceeds of the vessel; they pay
half, as it were; it goes in diminution of the moiety which goes to the
British Government.
5180. Mr. _Evans_.] The captor has no claim upon that?--The captor has
no claim upon it, except from the bounty of Government.
5181. _Chairman._] But the Government does generally hand over its
moiety to the captor?--Yes.
5182. Then by whatever amount that moiety is diminished, the captor’s
share is diminished?--Yes.
5183. Mr. _W. Patten_.] If any means could be discovered of doing away
with those great expenses on the sale of captured vessels, do not you
think that it would give great stimulus to cruizers on the coast?--I do
not think they require a stimulus; but I do not think it is possible to
diminish the charges materially in the shape of duties, which is the
heavy item. In translating the papers, they have been already relieved,
and also in a great measure from the duties; and I really do not think
that there is any change that can materially diminish the expenses, so
as to have the services properly performed.
5184. _Chairman._] Those are services which must be performed by
somebody, which can hardly be performed at less expense than they are
now performed, and if the expenses are to be defrayed, they must be
defrayed by the Government or by the captors?--Yes: certainly.
5185. And the Government gets the moiety of the proceeds, but out of its
bounty habitually makes over that portion to the captor?--Yes.
5186. You do not think it unfair that the bounty should be diminished by
those expenses, not being extravagant expenses, in your opinion?--The
bounty granted by Act of Parliament is not diminished. Cases do happen
sometimes, as the case of the Passos, where the expenses exceed the
proceeds, and in those cases the Government pays the difference, leaving
the bounty perfectly free to the captor. None of the expenses go in
diminution of the bounty given by Act of Parliament.
5187. But this is a sort of premium given beyond the bounty?--I suppose
it was given to enable them to pay the expenses, but they get something
beyond the expenses, and the bounty comes to them entire, not suffering
any diminution from the general expenses, and the proceeds go in payment
of the expenses.
5188. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Do they get the bounty in all cases?--Yes, in
all cases captured under the treaties.
5189. If the vessel has no slaves on board, do they receive the
bounty?--Then they get the bounty on the tonnage of the captured vessel.
5190. Mr. _Stuart Wortley_.] You have been speaking of cases in which
there are slavers captured on board the prizes; in cases where there are
no slavers captured on board the prizes, is there any charge made on the
proceeds of the vessel on account of the crew?--The crew of a slaver
brought into Sierra Leone never consists of more than three, therefore
the expense cannot be very great; the adjudication generally takes place
on the eighth day after arrival, and there is a regular sum which is
given day by day in money to each man; as far as I recollect it, the
captain and mate get 3_s._ a day, and the other man 2_s._
5191. Whatever the amount of that charge is, it is made against the
proceeds of the vessel?--Yes.
5192. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] Do you recollect sending a despatch home in
December 1838, giving your opinion upon the state of the slave
trade?--There is a despatch here upon the subject.
5193. Does that despatch refer to the subject of this country retiring
from the contest which it has so long carried on?--Yes, I think it does,
but I can find the passage.
5194. Can you state what the opinion was?--The opinion expressed was,
that unless more effectual means were taken for the suppression of the
traffic, that perhaps more harm than good was done by the exertions that
we had made previously; but since that time a very great alteration has
taken place; I expressed my opinion with regard to an increase of the
force on the coast, and the occupation of British territory that
belonged to us, where we were supplanted by the slave traders, at Bulama
especially, and also as to the punishment of the crews engaged in the
slave trade.
5195. Have any of those measures which you recommended been carried into
effect?--The Portuguese have been driven from Bulama, and a much more
effectual method of cruizing has been followed; very superior vessels
have been employed.
5196. Have you now any doubt of the propriety of continuing our
policy?--Certainly not: with regard to cruizing under the present
system, I would propose increasing the force still, and employing a
certain number of steam-vessels; indeed, there are several measures that
I might propose. The occupation of Bulama was referred to; I think that
would be an important measure; it was urged very strongly in that
despatch to which I have been referred, and the commander of the Brisk,
Captain Kellett, then for the first time visited the place, and drove
the Portuguese slave traders from it, and carried away the slaves who
were kept in the barracoons there. Another proposition was, sending home
foreign crews, and perhaps I may be allowed to read the passage
containing it:--“The only other suggestion which we shall at present
offer is, the adoption of means to secure the punishment of persons
implicated in slave trade adventures. As things are now managed, the
confiscation of a slave vessel affects only the owner or the
underwriters; and the parties who navigate the condemned vessel are
constantly seen to embark again, on a second illegal voyage, a few days
after the termination of the first. The complete personal impunity which
attends the agents by whom illegal slave trade is carried on, combined
with the high wages by which their services are secured, renders the
slave trade, notwithstanding all its inconveniences, the most desirable
employment for the Spanish and Portuguese sailor. On this subject we beg
leave to refer your Lordship to Class A., 1824-1825, pages 142 and 143;
and to Class A., 1836, pages 217 and 218. The plan which we now propose
for adoption, with regard to slave vessels captured on this coast, and
condemned at Sierra Leone, is applicable, with some modifications, to
similar seizures in other parts of the world; but its effect may be
tried here in the first instance. Both the Portuguese and Spanish
treaties require that the captain, and a part, at least, of the crew, of
a captured slave ship should be left on board; and this clause, whilst
it sanctions the present almost invariable practice of sending up only
the master, and one or two of the seamen, of a detained vessel, as
witnesses before the mixed courts, and landing the remainder of the
crew, as soon as possible, at the nearest or most convenient port,
equally permits the detention of the whole of the crew, if it should be
thought necessary, and we now beg leave to recommend the latter course,
with a view to ulterior proceedings against all the guilty parties. The
hulk already fixed at Sierra Leone may be used as a temporary receptacle
for such prisoners; and one small steamer, or vessel of war, might be
constantly employed in conveying the prisoners from this place to
England, to obtain the orders of Her Majesty’s Government as to their
delivery, at Lisbon (if Portuguese), or at Cadiz or some other port (if
Spanish). Portugal and Spain are both bound by treaty, as well as by
their own law, to punish their respective subjects, ‘who may participate
in an illicit traffic in slaves,’ and ‘to assimilate, as much as
possible, their legislation in this respect to that of Great Britain;’
and those powers will thus enjoy the opportunity of fulfilling their
obligations. The punishment of the guilty persons might be strongly
urged by the British ambassadors; but whether punished or not, we are
persuaded that a more severe blow would be given by this proceeding to
foreign slave trade than it has ever yet received. No less than 687
Spanish and Portuguese sailors were engaged in navigating the 30 vessels
which came before us last year. All these men have long since returned
to their former occupation; but had they been withdrawn, as we propose,
from their old haunts and pursuits, carried to Europe far from their
slave trading connexions, fined, imprisoned, and otherwise punished, and
left to find their way back as best they could to Cuba and Brazil, the
alarm which would have been thereby caused amongst the many thousands of
seamen engaged in the same manner, would have done more to check and
injure the illegal traffic than any means that have been adopted for the
last twenty years.”
5197. Mr. _Forster_.] In the paper you have just read, the necessity of
increased measures for the punishment of the crews of slave vessels is
alluded to; you are not aware, probably, that it is in evidence before
this Committee, that those crews, being landed on the coast at the
nearest point to that at which the capture took place, not above one in
ten of them escape death from destitution and want, in which case you
would probably think the punishment sufficient?--I was not aware of the
fact; but still I would have _that one_ sent home.
5198. _Chairman._] You would rather have the regular punishment of the
sailors?--A total withdrawal of the men from the place where their slave
trading occupation leads them, even if they are not punished in Portugal
and Spain, would have a good effect; they would be withdrawn so
completely from the line of their ordinary business, that the expense of
their finding their way to the Havannah or the Brazils would deter them
from engaging in such voyages, except at extravagantly high wages.
5199. Mr. _Aldam_.] Why could not they work their way back?--But they
still would be losing the enormous wages that they would obtain on board
a slave ship.
5200. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Do you happen to know the wages given on board
the slave ships?--They vary a little; but the wages of a common sailor I
have known to be 5_l._ a month. I should say a common seaman on board
one of those vessels would obtain, taking the value which the slaves
fetch, 7_l._ or 8_l._ a month on a successful voyage.
5201. Of course, those sailors undertake those voyages, and obtain that
enormous remuneration on account of the danger they run to life and
limb, from coming into the hands of our cruizers?--Yes; English sailors
would, until lately, have been hung if we caught them on board a slave
vessel, and, therefore, we see no English sailors in that trade; but you
would have men of all nations volunteer into it, if it were not for the
danger they ran.
5202. There is nothing in the trade itself, except the danger that they
run from our cruizers, which would lead to such enormous wages?--Nothing
whatever; they may be exposed to very great inconveniences, and if you
increase the inconveniences in the way I proposed, the wages would
double, probably; the rate of wages depends upon the danger and
inconvenience.
5203. Do you think that all the parties usually engaged in the slave
trade are perfectly aware that they run the risk of being put on shore
in case of capture, and of having to undergo great peril of their lives
before they can return to their homes?--It is known in all the slaving
ports; it has been the universal practice ever since the cruizers were
on the station to land the crews; indeed it cannot be otherwise with the
small vessels that we have on the coast. To venture to take fifty or
sixty scoundrels like the crews of those vessels, on board such a ship,
would be madness.
5204. Have you had your attention called to the very great hardship
which some of those crews have sustained when put on shore?--It has not
come before me in any way whatever; I have no knowledge of it at all; I
attended this Committee some time ago, and I heard of one case, where it
was mentioned that they were starved, but that is the only case I have
heard of.
5205. Can you suggest any alteration by which they could be put on shore
and subjected to very great personal inconvenience, without the dreadful
loss of life that we have heard of?--I think they were as badly off when
they were landed at Prince’s, which is a Portuguese settlement, as they
are at any other place.
5206. Would it increase the expenses very materially, or be a very
material inconvenience, to fix upon certain points of the coast at which
the crews could be landed before the vessels were sent to Sierra Leone
for judgment?--I do not think it could be done; it would take the
cruizer out of his ground, and would inconvenience him greatly; the
object is to keep the vessel efficient for the cruize, and keep him on
the ground; an empty vessel might run out, in order to be taken, while
the full slaver got away.
5207. If the regulation were adopted, that a cruizer taking a slaver in
certain districts, which should be detained, should be obliged to land
the crew at particular places; would that be practicable?--I do not
think it is possible.
5208. Mr. _Forster_.] Independently of the feeling of humanity towards
the crews themselves, do you not think that the example of such
treatment must have a very bad effect in the eyes of the natives of the
coast of Africa, as showing them an example of inhumanity on the part of
those who profess to be acting solely in that way from motives of
humanity?--I have never known a cruizer act inhumanly; I heard of one
case the other day, where they were starved, but it was stated in that
case that it was owing to the refusal of the Portuguese factories to
support them.
5209. Mr. _Stuart Wortley_.] In the paper you have read, it was stated
that there were 687 sailors engaged in navigating 30 slave vessels; a
short time since you stated that with respect to ships condemned at
Sierra Leone, there were seldom more than three or four connected with
the navigation of a vessel; will you reconcile those two
statements?--They only leave those three or four on board; they land all
but those who are required as witnesses at Sierra Leone.
5210. There are no individuals belonging to the slave crew retained on
board?--None, but those who are required as witnesses.
5211. Then those individuals of whom you spoke, as being charges against
the vessel, were individuals retained as witnesses?--Yes.
5212. _Chairman._] Do you think that the price paid to the Spanish or
Portuguese Governments, as the case might be, would suffice for the
maintenance of the crews of those vessels?--Yes, it would be only
rationing them for the voyage across.
5213. And paying for their passage?--Now we pay continually out of the
foreign moiety for the passage; at least the commissariat does.
5214. That is for the captain and mate; but here you are supposing
several hundred instead of 20 or 30?--The rationing of the commissariat
commences the moment we cease to have any thing to do with the vessel;
the day the vessel is condemned, there is given to the commissary a list
of the men who will come upon him for rations, and as long as they
remain in the colony they will come upon him daily; when a number of
vessels have been captured, and at one time we had 37 vessels lying in
the harbour at the same time, they would cause a great drain upon the
provisions, which are sent out only to meet ordinary contingencies; in
that case the commissary went to the expense of hiring vessels to send
those men away, and charged those expenses, in the same way as he would
have done the rations, against the share of the foreign government.
5215. If you brought the crew to Sierra Leone you would increase the
expense of maintenance very considerably?--Yes.
5216. You still consider that the moiety given to the foreign government
would cover such expenses?--Yes, if vessels continued to be taken as
they have been in the last few years, they would do so certainly. The
only case in which I should conceive that the expense would exceed the
moiety, is where very few vessels are condemned, and where you would
have to run across with a very few passengers.
5217. This could be done by the existing treaty, without the necessity
for any fresh negotiation?--Yes.
5218. Captain _Fitzroy_.] What becomes of the remainder of that moiety
which goes to the foreign government, the part which is not used in
paying for the maintenance of those men?--I believe there are always
accounts going on between the governments at home, and it is used in
England in some way that I am not aware of; the Treasury disposes of it
either by paying it over to the agent of the foreign government here, or
in some other way.
5219. Is the foreign moiety paid to our Government?--The whole of it is
paid to the commissary at Sierra Leone; he has accounts with the
Treasury; there are regular accounts which are made up as between the
British Government and the foreign government, showing the exact sum
that is due by the English Government to the foreign Government for
their moiety.
5220. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Looking to the general nature of the vessels
that are sold at Sierra Leone, do you think that they would bring by
auction as large a price if sold in the West Indies, as they would sold
at Sierra Leone?--Yes, I think they would.
5221. Do you think they would bring a larger price?--There have been
vessels sold at the West Indies, but there was not any material
difference in price; it would depend a good deal upon the island to
which they went; in some islands there might be no great demand.
5222. _Chairman._] There is a good deal of small traffic, is there not,
along the coasts of the West India islands?--Yes; I should think the
chances are, that the prices vessels would fetch in the West Indies
would be higher than at Sierra Leone.
5223. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Suppose the station was established at the West
Indies, would there not be the security that they would be sold without
being made use of again for the slave trade?--There might be. I have
strongly recommended that vessels should be sent to the West Indies,
when they have cargoes on board; that the slaves should be landed in the
West Indies, and the vessels, of course, might be sold there when sent
over.
5224. _Chairman._] You would bring them to Sierra Leone for
adjudication?--Yes; there could not be a mixed commission established
under the present system in the West Indies; because the treaty requires
that there shall be one mixed commission on the coast of Africa, and
another in the West Indies, and we have one there already at Havannah.
5225. You would think it a very material advantage, looking to the slave
trade, if those sales could take place at the West Indies instead of on
the coast of Africa?--No; the advantage that I was alluding to, is an
advantage for the supply of labour in the West Indies, but not with
regard to the supply of vessels, because the vessel might soon run
across the Atlantic, and get into the hands of the slavers, as at
present.
5226. If a person wished to obtain those vessels bought in the West
Indies, for the encouragement of the slave trade, he would buy them at a
great disadvantage as compared with the price which he now pays at
Sierra Leone?--Yes; but notwithstanding the higher price in the West
Indies, it is not likely to be such a price that the owner would not be
able to get much more from the slave dealers than anybody else.
5227. If the sales of the prize vessels and the prize goods were made in
the West Indies rather than at Sierra Leone, would they be less
serviceable in the encouraging the slave trade?--Those particular goods
would.
5228. Would the absence of that mode of supply be in any way an
obstruction to the slave trader?--Certainly not.
5229. Are they got at those prize sales at a cheaper rate than they are
directly from the merchants?--The price goods obtained at public
auctions is much lower than you would buy them for in one of the shops.
5230. Then by so far as the prize sales in Sierra Leone do furnish a
cheaper article to the slaver than the regular sale would do, so far
they are an assistance to his trade?--The cheapness of goods sold at
Sierra Leone is useful to all trades as well as to that.
5231. But if those sales did not take place at Sierra Leone, they would
not be supplied so cheaply as they are?--It is a very small portion of
assistance they receive; but so far as it goes it is an assistance.
5232. A vessel sold at Sierra Leone, is more easily convertible to the
purposes of the slave trade, than if it were sold in the West
Indies?--More easily, but not much more so, because the vessel might be
run across at once.
5233. Is there not more demand for vessels in the West Indies than at
Sierra Leone?--Certainly, and therefore the price would be higher.
5234. Captain _Fitzroy_.] Is there not also an advantage in having men
disposable, ready to man those ships when purchased?--Yes.
5235. Mr. _Forster_.] Are not the cases very few in which they would man
the vessels at once again?--I have known cases of that kind.
5236. But are not the cases comparatively rare?--Yes.
5237. _Chairman._] Who generally are purchasers of prize vessels?--The
greater portion are purchased on speculation; the number sold now is not
at all, in proportion to the number taken, what it was before the
Spanish treaty, under which most of the vessels are condemned, require
that the vessels should be cut up, but some are bought on speculation,
and come into the fruit trade, and others go into the Mediterranean
trade; others are bought by slavers.
5238. Mr. _Evans_.] Do you know any thing of the slave ship Almirante,
for which vessel the sum of 600_l._ was offered by an officer of
Government, to be used as a tender, which offer was not accepted, and
the vessel was sold at 1,500_l._, and immediately went down to the Bonny
and took away 600 slaves from that port?--The Almirante was captured
before my time at Sierra Leone, but I think it is very likely, because
such things were taking place continually.
5239. Mr. _W. Patten_.] When you were at Sierra Leone, you have stated
in your evidence already, that the liberated Africans were carrying on
the trade with much greater advantage than the white merchants, in
consequence of the price at which they obtained goods at public
auctions?--Not entirely in consequence of that, but that has been one
great means to assist them. For many years past, before those prize
goods were sold at Sierra Leone, the liberated Africans had gradually
been working themselves into notoriety; most of them are very much
addicted to trading, and the persons whom they have supplanted are a
lazy, indolent, worthless set, who cannot compete with them at all, and
having completely driven out of the market the Maroons and settlers,
they are now gradually driving out the white merchants.
5240. There is then this additional disadvantage in those auctions at
Sierra Leone, that they are destroying the trade of the white merchants
of the place, by the other merchants being able to purchase goods at a
price which is not remunerating to the British merchant?--I consider it
a great advantage.
5241. Is it not a great disadvantage in one respect, that it is
discouraging the trade between England and the coast of Africa at that
particular point?--No, I think quite the reverse; the supply of goods
will be the same whoever are the receivers, and the extent of our export
to Sierra Leone will not be diminished by altering the colour of the
merchants there.
5242. But if it should be desirable to establish a general trade with
that part of the coast in a legitimate way, does not the sale of goods
at those public auctions, at materially reduced prices, offer a great
impediment to English merchants conducting trade upon that part of the
coast?--I think its first effect might be that; but its ultimate effect,
I think, would be far different. I think the great point is to encourage
the use of such articles, and to increase the desire for them; and the
British goods will always, in competition, beat out the foreign goods
from the market.
5243. Has it not pretty much the same effect there that a very large
sale, under a bankruptcy in England, has upon the trade in this
country?--I think not, to the same degree there; because what you
require there, in order to create a demand for goods of good quality is,
to allow the people to have the use of something superior to what they
would have without those sales.
5244. _Chairman._] But the goods sold at those prize sales are articles
of an inferior kind, are they not?--The goods that are sold there are
very much the same as those that are used by the natives in their own
trade, and probably many of them are British manufacture.
5245. You think that it is an advantage to the trade ultimately, that
those forced sales, at unnaturally low prices, should be made within the
colony, producing a taste which will be gratified by a more regular
trade?--Yes.
5246. Though they may interfere with the regular trade in the
colony?--That is only for a time.
5247. Mr. _Aldam_.] Are the goods English goods?--The principal part of
them are.
5248. _Chairman._] Those forced sales have had a very injurious effect
upon the regular trade of the place, have they not?--Yes, upon the
shops; at the same time they have raised into wealth, and brought
forward still more prominently than before, the liberated African
hawkers.
5249. Have they created a class of native traders who have extended
commerce inland further than British trade by itself, in its natural
course, would have done?--Yes, certainly; the trade between Sierra Leone
and the Sherboro’, and the rivers in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone,
has been very much more brisk in the large canoes that are employed by
the liberated African traders, since goods have come in so cheaply.
5250. Therefore you think, incidentally to the regular trade, advantage
has been given by these forced sales, which have created tastes which
would not have existed under other circumstances?--Yes.
5251. Mr. _Forster_.] The brisk trade which you have spoken of between
Sherboro’ and Sierra Leone would be with those goods; a trade chiefly
with the slave dealers in that quarter?--All are slave dealers, if they
can be, beyond British jurisdiction; but what the Sierra Leone traders
receive in exchange for goods are rice, and other articles of produce,
which are consumed in the colony; for though rice is the principal food
of all who can afford to pay for it, there is no rice raised in the
colony; and therefore a trade of some kind is required to be carried on,
in order to procure the means of subsistence.
5252. _Chairman._] The colony has not the means of supporting
itself?--No.
5253. Mr. _Forster_.] Though those goods may be sold to slave dealers in
those districts, you think that it is a legitimate and desirable trade
for the English merchant?--Yes.
5254. Mr. _Evans_.] Have you not stated that the black merchants at
Sierra Leone have more capital than the English?--There are hardly any
English merchants; there are agents of English houses. The black
merchants have twice as much capital as the resident English agents, but
there is one merchant, Mr. William Cole, who is carrying on business on
his own account, and he went into the market, he did not hold back and
oppose the thing, as was done by the other English traders, but he
entered into competition with the black traders, and made a good deal of
money by it.
5255. In Sierra Leone merchants who had capital to employ would have
considerable advantage over the agents or merchants who had not the
money to lay down?--Yes.
5256. Mr. _Forster_.] Was not the want of money you have alluded to on
the part of the English merchants, mainly owing to having their stores
filled with English merchandize, which was rendered completely
unsaleable by the quantity of prize goods thrown into the market in the
way you have mentioned?--I think not, because Mr. Cole was in just the
same circumstances; he had the largest store in the town; but he had
more money than the others; he had money in his pocket instead of being
in debt in England, and instead of sending home money as others were
obliged to do to pay their accounts in England, he reserved his money to
purchase cheap goods in the colony.
5257. Had he a large stock?--Yes, he had; but he took advantage of the
circumstances that occurred, and made his profit by them.
5258. Would it answer the purpose of the trader at Sierra Leone to keep
a large quantity of goods and money on his hands?--If Mr. Cole had known
of those prize goods coming in such large quantities he would not have
purchased goods from England, but he happened to have those goods in
store as the other merchants had, and he happened to have money also,
and he took advantage of the prize goods coming in, but there were very
few merchants in that position.
_Martis, 14º die Junii, 1842._