Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I was not acquainted with Lem Harris.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you know him?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think I know who he is. Wasn’t he in the

Department of Agriculture?

Mr. TAVENNER. He was in the Department of Agriculture. He

spent many years in the Soviet Union, studying and working in the

field of agriculture. He was prominent in organizations interested in

agriculture in this country. He was before this committee and refused

to testify as to his prior or present Communist Party membership,

relying upon the fifth amendment. He was considered the head of the

agricultural division of the Communist Party in the United States.

Did he importune in behalf of the National Farmers Union in procuring

grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. He particularly never talked to me or never

asked me to do it. I don’t know whether----

Mr. TAVENNER. You don’t need to put it on such a personal

basis. As a trustee you know whether he did or did not.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know. As a trustee, Gardner Jackson,

who I think was employed by the National Farmers Union, actually

talked more and actually guided the trust or the foundation as far as

agricultural matters were concerned, and I, of course, all I--I never

met Lem Harris.

Mr. TAVENNER. You wouldn’t have to meet Lem Harris to know

what influence he had to bear upon the making of grants by your

trustees.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I know of no influence he had, particularly as

far as I am concerned. He never importuned me at any time to vote for

anybody or grant any money to any organization.

Mr. TAVENNER. Gardner Jackson is alleged to have written a

letter on August 3, 1946, to James G. Patton, president of the National

Farmers Union. Mr. Lem Harris admitted that he had seen a copy of that

letter when he testified before this committee. In this letter to Mr.

Patton, Gardner Jackson makes this statement:

I don’t have to tell you that many of us understand your

appointment of the pathetic Communist or pro-Communist boy Phil

Reno to your headquarters staff in Denver as political and labor

relations official was at the behest of George Marshall and Lem

Harris, the Communist Party’s avowed agricultural policy fellow,

in order to insure a continuing flow of money from the Marshall

Foundation to the National Farmers Union.

Doesn’t that prove to you the influence that was exerted by the

Communist Party upon awards made to the National Farmers Union?

Mr. O’CONNELL. That, of course, is a statement made by Gardner

Jackson, I think after he had been removed from his position with the

Farmers Union, and in which he supplied information to Senator Bridges,

I think, and I can’t remember others, but what influence--for instance

I don’t even know who Phil Reno is, don’t know anything about him, and

what Jackson is attempting there I don’t know.

Mr. TAVENNER. You had a responsibility as one of the trustees

to know how the awards were being paid.

Mr. O’CONNELL. That is right and, as a matter of fact, the

foundation called Patton before it because we got in disagreement with

him about the way the funds were being expended and from then on grants

were made to the various State organizations of the Farmers Union

rather than to the national office directly.

Mr. TAVENNER. But they were continued?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, they were actually made to different

State farm union organizations but not to the National Farmers Union,

not to Patton. And certainly one of the basic reasons was because of

this gigantic proposal that he had about establishing these branch

centers. We just didn’t think it was a wise expenditure of the

foundation’s funds, and so on, and that was some of the disagreement

that we had.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you ever see a copy of the letter which I

referred to?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I never did.

Mr. TAVENNER. Had you heard of it?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think the way I heard of it, I don’t know

whether this is the same letter, but Senator Bridges made a speech on

the floor of the Senate I think in 1950 in which I am pretty sure he

quoted or actually inserted the Gardner Jackson letter, if I remember,

and I think I read it within Senator Bridges remarks at that time that

were on the floor.

Now, I remember that there was quite a to-do about it. I was out in

the State of Montana at that time. I have been close. I have known

the Farm Union leadership and members out there and I know they were

exercised and committed and worried about this whole development.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you recall from that letter, and the

discussions which you have just mentioned, that Lem Harris, whom I

have identified from the committee files as a person prominent in the

agricultural section of the Communist Party, was himself attempting to

decide what awards or what grants the trustees of the foundation should

make to the National Farmers Union?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t recall as far as I am concerned any

influence on me. I voted as far as I was concerned on those grants the

way I wanted to.

Mr. TAVENNER. I understand that, but I am asking you about

your knowledge and what you learned in the course of the performance of

your duties as a trustee.

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as Lem Harris was concerned, I never

heard anything about Lem Harris’ influence or anything.

Mr. TAVENNER. You have just told us there was a great

disturbance in 1950 when this information became public.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Over the Gardner Jackson letter; yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. So you did not know something about it in 1950?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; but I mean from 1950 on there had been no

meetings of the Robert Marshall Foundation.

Mr. TAVENNER. Let me quote further from this same letter, in

which Mr. Gardner Jackson is addressing Mr. Patton:

I do not have to recall to your mind--

meaning Mr. Patton’s mind--

Lem Harris’ visit to you in Denver a few years ago to tell you that

of the total amount of money remaining in the Marshall Foundation,

the National Farmers Union would be allowed so much and to ask you

as president of the National Farmers Union how you wanted that sum

spread over the ensuing few years.

Lem Harris is not a trustee of that fund.

Do you know anything about that? Does that refresh your recollection?

Mr. O’CONNELL. It doesn’t mean anything to me. I was not close

to Patton of course. I don’t know what he was doing as far as Lem

Harris was concerned, I mean I just don’t know anything about that. I

am telling you that very frankly.

Mr. TAVENNER. You have been very positive in your statements

that no awards or grants were made by this foundation which might be

construed as being grants to or for the benefit of the Communist Party.

That has been the inference of your testimony.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, that is what I am trying--of course the

questions all have been with reference to the economic system based on

production for use rather than for profit.

Mr. TAVENNER. That is right.

Mr. O’CONNELL. And all that.

Mr. TAVENNER. You trustees had very broad powers to determine

what organization you would aid in the purpose of this trust which was,

namely, to promote an economic system in the United States based upon

profit for use. I am trying to find out how you exercised those broad

powers.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Those powers were exercised by different

trustees.

Mr. TAVENNER. Of which you were one.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Of which I was one. All of us exercised I am

sure our independent judgment on it. If it were possible to bring them

all here, I don’t have them, but there were many instances where the

trustees divided, where these grants were made by majority vote rather

than by full vote and so on.

There are all kinds of situations that exist. But as far as I am

concerned, Lem Harris never influenced me to make a grant to the

Farmers Union or to any organization.

Mr. TAVENNER. Don’t misunderstand me again. My question is

broader than the influencing of you. My question is whether or not it

influenced the action of the trustees.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Of course I don’t know whether Lem Harris went

out and met with Jim Patton and Gardner Jackson, who was a trustee. I

don’t know whether that actually took place. I don’t know whether he

did these other things that are said. I don’t know whether he did them

or not, but if he did those things and Jackson was going along then he

had some influence and so on. But I think Jim Patton became leader of

the National Farmers Union after I left Congress. I never got to know

him real well, I think I have been introduced to him maybe once or

twice. I know that Jim Patton was displeased with some of my votes on

the foundation which were evidently reported to him by Jackson and went

to the leadership of the Farmers Union in Montana to try to exercise

influence as far as I was concerned in my votes on the foundation.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you have any other groups attempting to

influence your judgment or decision in the matter of making grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Any other groups?

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes; or individuals.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, over the period of years from 1940 on

down there were all kinds of grants made and there have been various

individuals who have come to me in connection with them.

Mr. TAVENNER. And many of those people were leaders in

notorious Communist-front organizations; weren’t they?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, of course I don’t go along with your

description of notorious Communist-front organizations. Many of the

people came to me and asked me to vote for grants for causes and for

principles which I thought were right and which I thought ought to be

done, and if they were right in my opinion I thought they were right, I

voted for them and if they were not I voted against them.

Mr. TAVENNER. Well, for instance, was a grant made of $20,000

to be used in the payment of attorney’s fees for the defense of William

Robert Remington?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Not by the Marshall Foundation, by the trust

funds that I was a trustee of. We certainly made no grant.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was any money of the foundation----

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think, isn’t that in connection with the

civil-liberties trust? It is not in connection with the trade-union

trust. Isn’t that right?

Mr. TAVENNER. That was paid out from another fund in the same

trust, not from the one in which----

Mr. O’CONNELL. No. The will established, I think I can explain

it, the will established three trusts, one that was called the Robert

Marshall Foundation, we were denoted always as the trade-union trust.

The second trust was a civil-liberties trust and 5 trustees, not all

of the 5 trustees on the trade-union trust, were trustees on the

civil-liberties trust. There were 15.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you on both?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, I was only on the trade union trust.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you have any knowledge of the payment from

this other trust--that is, the civil-liberties trust--of the grant of

$20,000 for defense of Remington?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I know nothing about it except, was that

contained in Mr. Dies’ speech? Was that reported----

Mr. TAVENNER. No.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I really personally have no--I am not a member

of that civil-liberties trust and I don’t know. There is also a

wilderness area trust that is set up in the will and I am not a trustee

on that fund either.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was the only fund of which you were a trustee

the one which provided for the promotion of an economic system in the

United States based upon the theory of production for use?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Which the trustees abandoned and decided to

eliminate at the very first meeting of the trustees that was held.

Mr. TAVENNER. Let us see the nature of the grants and we can

determine more about whether they did actually abandon it or not. How

long did this trust continue to operate? How long was it active?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think we actually made grants from, if I

remember correctly, 1940 until 1950. I am not sure whether we made any

grants in 1950 or not. We have not met in the last 5 years, I know

that. If I remember correctly, there is approximately $41,000 left in

the fund of which I am a trustee and there have been no meetings of the

trustees in at least the last 4 or 5 years.

Mr. TAVENNER. The committee has information that grants were

made in 1941 and 1942 by the Robert Marshall Foundation to the American

Youth Congress for the total of $10,250. Do you know who solicited

those grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No. An actual application would be made to Mr.

George Marshall as manager of the trust by the organization that was

involved--by the American Youth Congress. I can’t recall the reason for

the grant. My offhand guess would be that the American Youth Congress

was proposing to establish some kind of a labor secretary or labor

division of the Youth Congress or something, and they would tie it

in actually to the provision of the will as far as the trade union,

development of trade unions were concerned, organization of unemployed

youth, I imagine.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you, as a trustee, do anything to ascertain

how the money was being used after the grants were made?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I never did actually as a trustee. We had

the organization report to us from time to time how they were expending

the funds and what they were doing, but I couldn’t personally take any

one of those grants and tell you actually what the report was.

Mr. TAVENNER. The American Youth Congress has been cited as a

subversive and Communist organization by Attorney General Tom Clark on

December 4, 1947, and September 21, 1948, under a citation by Attorney

General Francis Biddle September 24, 1942, and also, May 28, 1942, it

was stated in the citation that--

It originated in 1934 and has been controlled by the Communists and

manipulated by them to influence the thought of American youth.

It was cited by the Special Committee on Un-American Activities June

29, 1942, January 3, 1939, January 3, 1941, and again on March 29,

1944, in which it was stated that it was one of the principal fronts

of the Communist Party and prominently identified with the White

House picket line under the immediate auspices of the American Peace

Mobilization.

Do you know whether Jack R. McMichael was the national chairman of the

American Youth Congress?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I couldn’t recall--the name doesn’t mean

anything to me.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did he play any part in the solicitation of

these grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as I was concerned, he didn’t at

least to me. If his name was on the stationery, I got a copy of the

application and all that, but----

Mr. TAVENNER. I am not certain that he was its president at

the time those grants were made, but he may have been.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know.

Mr. TAVENNER. During the same period, according to the

committee’s information, grants totaling $3,250 were made to the

Federated Press.

Mr. O’CONNELL. That is correct.

Mr. TAVENNER. And subsequently increased to a total of $29,200.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know whether those totals are correct,

but I know grants were made consistently to the Federated Press.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were the grants sufficiently large to make these

figures within reason?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I would say they are. They never got a large

grant each year. I think they got small grants like $3,500 or something

of that kind. It could have totaled $29,000 over the years.

Mr. TAVENNER. That organization was cited on March 29,

1944, by the Special Committee on Un-American Activities as a

Communist-controlled organization financed by the American Fund for

Public Service and the Robert Marshall Foundation, both principal

sources of funds for Communist enterprises.

Mr. O’CONNELL. There are a lot of conclusions drawn there that

need proof.

Mr. TAVENNER. I think we are proceeding to prove it right now.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Federated Press was a press service that

operated in the labor field. It supplied labor papers throughout the

country with labor news, news about labor, and about things labor was

doing and we thought certainly was entitled to a grant from the point

of view of development and organization of trade unions.

Mr. TAVENNER. It was a principal supplier of the Daily Worker

and the Daily People’s World.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I wouldn’t know, but I would presume that they

probably----

Mr. TAVENNER. You didn’t inquire?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Probably did. As far as I was concerned the

Federated Press was doing an excellent job in the labor field. As a

Congressman, of course, I had excellent opportunity to get all of the

labor newspapers and the labor newspapers particularly in my district,

and they were getting news from the Federated Press that covered a want

that was sorely needed as far as labor information was concerned.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you know that the American Youth Congress

had been cited as a Communist-front organization at the time you acted

upon----

Mr. O’CONNELL. By whom?

Mr. TAVENNER. By the Attorney General of the United States,

both Attorney General Clark and Attorney General Biddle and by this

committee.

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as I was concerned, I am pretty sure I

had knowledge they were cited by Attorney General Clark and by Attorney

General Biddle or by any other attorney general, but that didn’t

determine in my mind----

Mr. TAVENNER. That did not serve to put you on inquiry?

Mr. O’CONNELL. That did not serve as far as I was concerned

to make it conclusive by any means, and if I in my personal opinion

thought they were doing a good job and doing a job within the

provisions of this will and so on, I voted for it.

Mr. TAVENNER. Would you have made a grant to the Communist

Party in the State of Washington which as shown by the testimony I read

to you was interested in enacting into law the same principle under

which this trust was being operated?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I told you that at the very beginning, at the

very first meeting that the trustees held, that we voted not to make

any grants that were asked for on the basis of being used for the

promotion of an economy based on production for use rather than for

profit.

Mr. TAVENNER. That would have been in violation of the

provisions of the will, wouldn’t it?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, sir; we made our grants within the first

provisions, within the provision that provided for the development and

the organization of workers and unemployed persons and so on. We made

it a strictly trade-union trust.

Mr. TAVENNER. In other words, you entirely disregarded this

provision?

Mr. O’CONNELL. And if the Communist Party or the Democratic

Party or Republican Party or any partisan organization came and asked

for funds they wouldn’t have gotten it.

Mr. TAVENNER. But if it was an organization which the

leadership of the Communist Party had captured and had under its

control, it would be perfectly all right to make an award?

Mr. O’CONNELL. The organization never, I mean the foundation

never went out and conducted any Red hunt or went out----

Mr. TAVENNER. Never took any precautionary measures?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Don’t put words in my mouth. We never went

out and conducted any kind of a Red hunt, we never investigated the

organization to see what they were doing.

Mr. TAVENNER. Didn’t you make any investigation?

Mr. O’CONNELL. When they said we want to do so and so in

the labor field. We wanted to do this or that, if it was within the

provisions of the will and in the minds of the majority of the

trustees something we felt ought to be done, the grant was made. If we

didn’t, it wasn’t.

Mr. TAVENNER. You said you didn’t make a Red hunt, witch hunt,

I am not sure which you stated. Red hunt. But actually you didn’t make

any investigation?

Mr. O’CONNELL. As to whether or not this organization had Reds

in it or Communists in it?

Mr. TAVENNER. As to whether it was a Communist-controlled

organization.

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, we didn’t make any such investigation.

Mr. TAVENNER. Why didn’t you?

Mr. O’CONNELL. It wasn’t our job to do anything of that kind.

As a matter of fact, I am sure, Mr. Tavenner, you have been around here

a long time, and I mean the development as far as these organizations

are concerned that you are talking about to me now, the proscription

of these organizations, certain individuals, are things that have gone

on. I went into this foundation selected solely as a friend of Bob

Marshall’s. I went in with an honest mind determined to do the best job

I knew how to see that the money was spent to do what I thought Bob

would like to have seen done.

Mr. TAVENNER. Bob unquestionably wanted to promote a new

economic system in the United States based on the theory of production.

That is what Bob wanted to do according to his last will and testament.

Did you make grants aggregating $6,000 to Frontier Films?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am pretty sure we did. I can’t recall the

particular grant now or know what it was made for. I think there was a

particular picture. Wasn’t the picture of 1937 Little Steel strike out

in Chicago where many of the workers were murdered? You see it is very

difficult to go back 17 or 18 years and try to put it in the pattern

that you now work on today.

Mr. TAVENNER. We know that Frontier Films produced the

Communist film Native Land based on Richard Wright’s Native Son. The

picture featured the Negro actor, Paul Robeson. That is the only

information that I have.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I know as far as Frontier Films were concerned

whatever the picture was, as I recall, it was a labor picture and my

best recollection is it was the picture about the Little Steel strike

and particularly the Memorial Day massacre in 1937 at Republic Steel in

Chicago.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you recall who solicited the grant?

Frontier Films was cited by this committee as a Communist front on

March 29, 1944.

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, the first name of Paul comes to my mind.

I can’t remember any last name. The party came and talked to us about

it--was there a Paul--Paul comes to my mind. That is all I can recall.

Mr. TAVENNER. Grants totaling $900 were made to the

International Juridical Association. Do you recall the circumstances

under which that grant was made?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, I really can’t recall the circumstances

now. It is apparently a very small grant. I don’t know what it was

used for. It must have been in connection with some particular labor

legal problem that may have been involved as far as the Wagner Act was

concerned or NLRB or something of that nature.

Mr. TAVENNER. Grants totaling $4,250 were made to the National

Federation for Constitutional Liberties. That is an organization you

did know about; isn’t it? In fact, the amount was increased after 1942

to a total of $56,000. You were acquainted with that organization;

weren’t you?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I knew of the National Federation for

Constitutional Liberties, yes, and I am sure that grants were made, I

would say on an annual basis to the National Federation, I don’t know

what amounts specifically, but whether that total amount is correct or

not I cannot say.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you familiar with the citation of that

organization?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I am not.

Mr. TAVENNER. Let me read it to you. It was cited as

subversive and Communist by Attorney General Tom Clark on December 4,

1947; it was also cited by Attorney General Francis Biddle September

24, 1942, in the following language:

Part of what Lenin called the solar system of organizations,

ostensibly having no connection with the Communist Party, by

which Communists attempt to create sympathizers and supporters of

their program. It was established as a result of a conference on

constitutional liberties held in Washington, D. C., June 7-9, 1940.

The defense of Communist leaders such as Sam Darcy and Robert Wood,

party secretaries for Pennsylvania and Oklahoma, have been major

efforts of the federation.

What purpose did the trustees of your foundation have in making $56,000

of grants to that organization?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, of course, if I had the specific

application before me I could tell you, but I am sure that the

application set out that it would be used for the defense of various

labor leaders who were under attack of any kind, particularly from the

civil liberties point of view.

Mr. TAVENNER. Communist or not?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Communist or non-Communist.

Mr. TAVENNER. You were actually one of the sponsors for the

call to the conference, in June of 1940, which was alluded to in the

citation by Attorney General Biddle; were you not?

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