As executive secretary of the Democratic Party, I probably, of course,
suggested things they might do to help us in the campaign and so on.
I don’t know, but I certainly--what I want to do--what I did was not
because they were members of the district board of the Communist
Party or because they were Communists, or anything of that kind. If
I suggested something they ought to do about the Washington Pension
Union either to Pennock or Rabbitt, it was in connection with either
Democratic Party activity or Progressive Party activity as far as
campaigns were concerned.
It is a very broad general question. You asked me about it, any phases
of its work. For instance, I mean we were certainly anxious in the
Democratic Party and Progressive Party, too, to get the votes of the
senior citizens of the State and----
Mr. TAVENNER. What do you mean by the “senior citizens”?
Mr. O’CONNELL. The older people of the State that were in the
pension organization, and so on. And outside the organization as well
that they had influence on.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were your discussions with the leadership of the
Washington Pension Union chiefly with Pennock and Rabbitt?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, during my time out there I think the
Washington Pension Union, if I remember correctly, had a whole host of
vice presidents, I don’t know how many, I think they elected--I think
Rabbitt was one of those vice presidents. But the executive officer of
the Washington Pension Union of course was Pennock and in my work as
executive secretary of the Democratic Party and also the Progressive
Party I certainly conferred with Pennock, I certainly asked him to see
that things were done by the campaign and see that work was done in
connection with it.
But in my time out there I think, I don’t think Rabbitt was any kind
of--was he a full-time paid employee of the Pension Union?
Mr. TAVENNER. I am not sure what his official connection was
with it.
Mr. O’CONNELL. My recollection is that he was one of the
many vice presidents, I think if I recall there were about 16 vice
presidents and I think he was one of them. As far as Rabbitt and
Pennock were concerned, all of the time they were both leaders in
the Democratic Party. Rabbitt was a Democrat State senator from a
legislative district, Pennock was a representative from the same
legislative district and likewise within the Democratic organization
particularly in King County and because King County was the largest
county in the State, the impact it would have on the State organization
as well, I was thrown into considerable contact with them in my work
as executive secretary of the Democratic Party with both Pennock and
Rabbitt.
Mr. VELDE. Mr. O’Connell, both Pennock and Rabbitt were
generally known to be members of the Communist Party, as members of the
district board, were they not?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know. I couldn’t say. I don’t think
Rabbitt acknowledged he was a member of the Communist Party and Pennock
only announced it shortly before he died. Shortly before the beginning
of the Smith Act trial in Seattle, he announced he was.
Mr. TAVENNER. You were quite aware, were you not, of the
effort being made by the Communist Party to take over the Washington
Pension Union?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know whether I--I was not in Washington
Pension Union. I was not engaged in its work or activity.
Mr. TAVENNER. Any person who has held the two positions
that you have as secretary of two very active organizations would
certainly have had his finger on the pulse of general activities in the
community. You certainly knew, did you not, that the Communist Party
was operating the Washington Pension Union?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I certainly did not know that. I didn’t
know that.
Mr. TAVENNER. You believed it, didn’t you?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I didn’t believe it. There are a lot of
wonderful old people in that organization and Dr. Fisher----
Mr. TAVENNER. I am talking about the leadership.
Mr. O’CONNELL. Who is the president of it----
Mr. TAVENNER. I have told you Mrs. Hartle said there were
comparatively few.
Mr. O’CONNELL. Mrs. Hartle, on her own acknowledgment was a
functionary of the Communist Party, was she not?
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes.
Mr. O’CONNELL. She certainly would know whether they were
working or not, but I was not a functionary of the Communist Party
and I wouldn’t know what the Communist Party was doing as far as the
Pension Union was concerned.
Mr. VELDE. You had no inkling whatsoever that Pennock,
Rabbitt, and Mrs. Hartle were members of the Communist Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I had no inkling?
Mr. VELDE. Suspicion.
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes.
Mr. VELDE. You did have a suspicion they were?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes.
Mr. VELDE. Upon what did you base that suspicion?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I couldn’t prove it. Of course it was not my
particular job to prove it.
Mr. VELDE. Certainly not. No question about that.
Mr. TAVENNER. In your judgment what was the purpose of
the Communist Party in attempting to capture the leadership of the
Washington Pension Union?
Mr. O’CONNELL. In my judgment what would it have been?
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes.
Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, I presume, as Mrs. Hartle states there,
they were engaged in developing what she called mass organizations and
so on, and this was a large organization, there isn’t any doubt about
that, there was a very, very large group. I think the membership of
10,000 is even underestimated. My feeling is its membership ran closer
to 16,000 just from my contact with it. I presume they would like to
control it because of its tremendous effect and tremendous influence
without any doubt. I know in the Democratic Party I wanted to make
sure that the pension union supported the candidates of the Democratic
Party. We worked hard to get them to indorse and support Democratic
Party candidates and to work for them every way we knew how.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did the leadership in the Washington Pension
Union endeavor to influence the selection of candidates for office in
either the Progressive Party or the Democratic Party while you were
secretary?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Did the Washington Pension Union try----
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes; through its leadership, try to influence
the selection of individuals for office.
Mr. O’CONNELL. If you mean they wanted certain people
elected----
Mr. TAVENNER. I am not talking about supporting certain people
but did they endeavor to get certain individuals selected for party
nomination.
Mr. O’CONNELL. By that do you mean did they go out and select
certain people?
Mr. TAVENNER. Did the leadership in the Washington Pension
Union try to influence your party organization in behalf of certain
individuals in whom they were interested?
Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as the party organization was concerned,
we had the Democratic primary where the people voted in the Democratic
primary and selected the nominees and then after the Democratic
nominees were selected and so on, I would say the Washington Pension
Union with rare exceptions--and I think those exceptions were some 9 or
10 State senators who were called quisling senators, who didn’t support
the Democratic organization in the State senate at the time--I think
the Washington Pension Union generally supported the Democratic Party.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Eugene Dennett testified that the purpose of
the Communist Party in exerting its infiltration efforts in both the
Washington Commonwealth Federation and the Washington Pension Union was
to strengthen its own political influence. I shall read a part of his
testimony. In referring to the Washington Commonwealth Federation he
said:
It was our estimate that it was capable--
by “our” he is referring to the Communist Party--
that it was capable of influencing and obtaining the vote of
one-third of the members who voted in the Democratic Party slate
or side of the ticket and because of that fact and because we were
in a higher state of mobilization than the rest of the Democratic
Party when primaries came along we could exercise a more direct
influence in the primaries than anybody else because our members
in the Washington Commonwealth Federation had a great zeal and a
greater devotion to carrying out their objectives than the other
Democrats who frequently relied upon making their decisions in the
general election.
When asked the question why was it that the Communist Party was
so interested in obtaining control of the Washington Commonwealth
Federation, he replied:
Because we wanted to ultimately obtain political power for the
Communist Party in the United States of America.
Did you observe efforts made by William Pennock and Tom Rabbitt, to
get control of either the Democratic machinery, the machinery of the
Democratic Party, or the machinery of the Progressive Party through the
use of the Washington Pension Union?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, I would say in a certain few districts
in King County, probably one district in Snohomish County, legislative
district in Grays Harbor County, that the nominees of the Democratic
Party were certainly not people that the pension union had selected or
had picked out but I think they were people the pension union supported
because of their votes in the legislature and so on. The Commonwealth
Federation was actually gone in my time. I don’t know what it did.
I don’t know what its power was and what its influence was but for
instance in the 35th District if Pennock was the Representative and
Rabbitt was the Senator and they were both in the pension union they
certainly had some influence there.
I am trying to think of the district in Snohomish, there are two
legislative districts there, I think it was northern Snohomish County
where I think there was a pension union member who was actually a
member and elected to the legislative assembly and I think that was
true in the district down in Grays Harbor County, but you take all of
the eastern end of Washington, all the eastern side of Washington they
certainly had no influence to speak of over there. They might have had
a tiny bit of influence in one district in Spokane County, but in the
great part, I would say in the great part of the State outside of those
few areas I picked out and where the selections were actually people
of their own membership, I don’t, I can’t see any actual picking or
selecting of people that were put in. I can’t recall all of the people
who were, but for instance the major State offices like Governor and
United States Senator, Congressman, and so on, I couldn’t see any
influence except in the First Congressional District where of course
they could have been instrumental in the nomination and election of
Hugh DeLacy in 1944 election, I think it was, but as to the other
districts, John Coffee was in Congress a long time I think, even before
the pension union was established, Charlie Levy was in the House.
Mr. TAVENNER. Was Hugh DeLacy known to you to be a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. NO.
Mr. TAVENNER. He has been identified by both Barbara Hartle
and Eugene Dennett. He was produced as a witness before the committee
in Ohio in September of last year and he refused to answer any material
questions relating to Communist Party affiliations, relying upon the
fifth amendment as the reason for so doing.
Mr. O’CONNELL. Senator Neuberger wrote a chapter in a book
published by Bob Allen called Our Fair City, and wrote the article in
connection with the city of Seattle, and he gives me credit in that
book, if I remember correctly, for having forced Hugh DeLacy on the
Democratic Party in the State of Washington, but Hugh DeLacy had
actually been nominated for Congress on the Democratic Party ticket
before I ever went to the State of Washington.
He was actually the Democratic nominee.
Let me say, Mr. Neuberger also gives me credit for--Senator
Neuberger--for taking over. He said I took over the Democratic
organization and so on. I don’t think I did. I had served in the House
with Senator Wallgren who later became Governor and Senator Magnuson,
who was in the House, and I knew them well and Senator Mitchell,
who was secretary to Senator Wallgren at that time, and who later
became Senator and Congressman and all of that, and I think they were
appreciative of the kind of job I had done out there, and so on.
Mr. VELDE. Did you have any suspicion or inkling that Mr. Hugh
DeLacy was a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I couldn’t say, I wouldn’t want to say.
Mr. VELDE. Why would you not want to say?
Mr. O’CONNELL. You see, I really didn’t get to know him. He
was elected to Congress shortly after I came out there and then he came
down here to Washington and then after his defeat for Congress he was
only back in the State of Washington a short time and went to work, if
I recall correctly, in the national office of the Progressive Party
and was working outside the State of Washington so that my contact
with DeLacy was not very great. I didn’t get to know him like the
people that were out in the State day in and day out and were in the
Democratic Party meetings.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. O’Connell, we have the situation where the
Communist Party went deliberately about seizing the leadership and
capturing the leadership in a very powerful political organization in
the State of Washington, namely, the Washington Pension Union, and
ahead of it the Washington Commonwealth Federation. It succeeded in
capturing the leadership of it. It did it for the purpose of advancing
the interests of the Communist Party.
Will you tell the committee whether or not the leadership of this
group, the Washington Pension Union, was successful in influencing
either of the parties of which you were secretary in any of its policy
actions?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I think for instance, in the Democratic Party
particularly by its organization and by its work and demands for
improved pension legislation, they had tremendous influence on the
Democratic Party. As a matter of fact the--I would say even on the
Republican Party. In the 1945 session of the State legislature the
actual legislation proposed by the pension union placing a $50 floor
under old-age-pension grants and setting up a system of budget and
what-not, the legislation which they actually introduced passed the
State senate by, I think, a vote of 45 or 46 to nothing. Both Democrats
and Republicans voted for it.
In the House I think it passed the same way probably 102 to 1 or 105 to
3 or something like that, it was almost unanimous. In that particular
effect certainly they not only had influence with the Democratic Party
but certainly in putting legislation on the books----
Mr. TAVENNER. What influence did it have on the Progressive
Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Of course we had no power. We had no officials
of any kind.
Mr. TAVENNER. Actually, wasn’t the leadership in the
Washington Pension Union and the leadership in the Progressive Party
practically the same?
Mr. O’CONNELL. The leadership?
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, wasn’t there an overlapping leadership
which made the two practically the same?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No, I wouldn’t say so. Actually, it is hard to
put the picture in the pattern of that time, but the 1946 elections
had been as we all recall quite disastrous to the Democrats, there was
considerable dissension among some Democrats with President Truman,
and there was a move from Democrats generally--I would say in the
Progressive Party, as it existed particularly in 1948, the Progressive
Party was not, did not have an officialdom or even a membership that
you could say, “Well, this is identical with the Washington Pension
Union.”
For instance, I never held any office in the Washington Pension
Union of any kind--I was executive secretary--Russell Fluent, who
had just finished a term as Democratic treasurer was the chairman of
the Progressive Party--L. C. Hunterer, who was Democratic sheriff
in Olympia in Thurston County, was a national committeeman--and the
Democratic national committeewoman from eastern Washington, who later
became the national committeewoman of the Progressive Party from the
State of Washington. Leadership in many counties was a leadership that
moved from the county chairman and others and moved over from the
Democratic Party into the Progressive Party.
The leadership of the pension union, Pennock and Fisher and Nora McCoy,
and others I recall there, if you consider Rabbitt----
Mr. TAVENNER. What was Fisher’s first name?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Dr. C. H. Fisher. He had been president of
Northern Washington Normal College, I think, at Bellingham.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. O’Connell, I hand you a photostatic copy of
a document and I will ask you to examine it, please, and state whether
you know what it is.
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes.
Mr. TAVENNER. What is it?
Mr. O’CONNELL. As I understand, it purports to be a sort of a
schedule or catalog of the Pacific Northwest Labor School for what they
call its fall term of October 6 to December 12.
Mr. TAVENNER. What year? 1947?
Mr. O’CONNELL. It apparently--I notice somebody made a
notation up here, 1947, but it doesn’t appear.
Mr. TAVENNER. I desire to offer the document in evidence, and
ask that it be marked “O’Connell Exhibit No. 1” for identification
purposes only, and made a part of the committee files.
Mr. DOYLE. It is so ordered.
Mr. TAVENNER. By reference to the exhibit it is noted that
course No. 148, offered at this school, was entitled “Northwest Labor
History” by John Daschbach, extension director, and William J. Pennock,
president of the Washington Pension Union. Will you tell the committee,
please, whether John Daschbach was known to you to be a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. He was not.
Mr. TAVENNER. He was not a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. He was not known to me to be a member of the
Communist Party.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show he
has been identified by both Eugene Dennett and Barbara Hartle----
Mr. O’CONNELL. I think he was also a Smith Act defendant.
Mr. TAVENNER. As a member of the party and he was a Smith Act
defendant. He was a teacher at this school. It is observed here on the
second page that a course on trade-union organizational problems was to
be taught by a person by the name of J-a-c-k-i-n-s. What was his first
name, Harvey?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t recall Jackins too well. Was he a
member of the union, the Boeing union?
Mr. TAVENNER. I am not certain which union.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I know there was a party by the name of Jackins
and that he was a leader in some one of the unions out there and my
best recollection is he was in the Boeing union.
Mr. TAVENNER. We have testimony before our committee that
Harvey Jackins taught at this school and I think the record should
also show Harvey Jackins was identified as a member of the Communist
Party by Elizabeth Boggs Cohen and Leonard Basil Wildman. He was
cited for contempt of the House of Representatives for refusal to
answer questions during the June 1954 hearings in Seattle and has been
convicted by a Federal court.
Mr. O’CONNELL. In that connection I want to--I notice in that
schedule that my name is listed as teaching a course in political----
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes. Labor’s political role, 1948.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I never taught such a class or roll or
schedule. Never appeared or anything else.
Mr. TAVENNER. Well, you were enrolled as a teacher, were you
not, in the labor school?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I was not. I never taught a class in the labor
school, never appeared in the labor school.
Mr. TAVENNER. What is your explanation of the advertising of
the curriculum with you as a teacher?
Mr. O’CONNELL. My explanation is really easy. Mr. Daschbach
got that schedule out and later called me and asked me if I would do it
and I refused and told him I didn’t want to do it.
Mr. TAVENNER. He did call you and you refused?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes.
Mr. TAVENNER. Why did you refuse?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Because I didn’t want to do it.
Mr. TAVENNER. What was your reason for not wanting to do it?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Let me see what it was. If I remember
correctly, my objection was to “tackle both ideological and
organizational problems which labor must solve to gain its ends in
1948.”
And my particular objection, of course, was that I had never been
involved, never was a member of a labor union or trade-union, and I
didn’t, I couldn’t speak as a laboring man or as a member of organized
labor. There was no particular way that I could particularly expound on
what labor’s role was because I wasn’t qualified to do it. I had either
been in political office or had been engaged in political organization.
Mr. VELDE. Did you know at that time that the Pacific
Northwest Labor School was a Communist organization?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No.
Mr. VELDE. What was the date of that?
Mr. TAVENNER. 1947.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I think it was either listed earlier or later
but it had been attacked by some of the labor organizations long before
it was listed, it had been attacked by some, particularly I think the
Central Labor Council in Seattle, and had been attacked by other groups
out there.
Mr. VELDE. Your suspicion that it was a Communist organization
was not the reason you didn’t teach the course?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I wouldn’t want to say now that is it. I
know at the time when he called me about it I objected to the word
ideological. I remember that expressly and I objected to the fact
that I was qualified in no way to talk about labor’s role in 1948. I
was not a member of a trade union, I had not been involved in labor
organization or anything of the kind. I know I didn’t teach there and I
didn’t----
Mr. TAVENNER. What was the meaning of “coordinator” after your
name?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know. Maybe if you let me look at it--I
don’t know what it means.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did Mr. Daschbach discuss the title of
coordinator with you?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; he certainly did not.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show
at this time the Communist affiliation of other teachers in this
school--Theodore Raymond Astley.
Mr. O’CONNELL. While you are doing that I wonder if I could
say this. When I spoke up and said I knew Mr. Daschbach was a Smith Act
defendant there was some remonstrance from over here where the press
is located and I wanted to point out I left the State of Washington
in 1949 and Mr. Daschbach did not become a Smith Act defendant, if I
remember correctly, until 1954.
Mr. VELDE. I think that commotion was because they didn’t know
how to spell his name.
Mr. TAVENNER. The spelling is D-a-s-c-h-b-a-c-h.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I thought maybe I had left something
unexplained.
Mr. TAVENNER. Ted Astley was slated to conduct course No. 245,
psychology in the social science. He appeared as a witness before the
committee and refused to testify, relying on the fifth amendment as to
past and present Communist Party membership. He was identified as a
member of the Communist Party by Barbara Hartle.
Ruth Bitterman was slated to conduct a course in children’s workshop.
She refused to testify as a witness before the committee but was
identified by Barbara Hartle as a member of the Communist Party.
Jean Danielson was shown by testimony in our hearings in Seattle to be
the same person as Margaret Jean Schuddakoph, and was advertised to
conduct course No. 300, as special workshop in reading and writing.
She refused to testify before the committee and was identified as a
Communist Party member by Barbara Hartle.
Marjorie Daschbach was advertised to conduct course No. 304 and was
identified by Barbara Hartle as a member of the Communist Party.
John Davis was advertised to conduct a course on workshop in the
graphic arts and was identified before this committee as having been a
member of the Communist Party by Barbara Hartle.
Fair Taylor, editor of Union Guardian, was advertised in the catalog
to teach a course on labor writer’s workshop. The testimony before the
committee shows that she is the same person as Fair Taylor Egroth, and
she was identified by Barbara Hartle as having been a member of the
Communist Party.
Dr. Ralph Gundlach was advertised to conduct a course of the analysis
of employer propaganda. Were you acquainted with Dr. Gundlach?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes, sir. He was a professor at the University
of Washington.
Mr. TAVENNER. Dr. Gundlach was identified by Harold Sunoo,
before this committee, as having been a member of the Communist Party.
There was a course conducted on labor news reporting by a person by the
name of Pettus. Do you know his first name?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Do I know his first name?
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes.