The testimony of Joseph Alexander Peterson was taken at 3:45 p.m., on
August 5, 1964, at the U.S. Post Office Building, 301 Stewart Street,
Las Vegas, Nev., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the
President’s Commission.
Mr. SPECTER. May the record show present at this time is Mr. Joseph
Peterson. Mr. Peterson, the President’s Commission on the Assassination
of President Kennedy has asked you to appear so that we may take your
deposition concerning any knowledge you have of Mr. Jack Ruby, his
activities during the period around the assassination of President
Kennedy, and any of his associates. With that preliminary statement of
purpose, would you stand up and raise your right hand, please?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in this
proceeding before the President’s Commission shall be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. PETERSON. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name?
Mr. PETERSON. Joseph Alexander Peterson.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever been known by any other name?
Mr. PETERSON. Joseph Jablonka.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that the name under which you were born, sir?
Mr. PETERSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. You say that has been legally changed?
Mr. PETERSON. Legally changed. My stepfather’s name is Walter Peterson.
Mr. SPECTER. When was your name changed from Jablonka to Peterson?
Mr. PETERSON. November 1965. I remember that well because that was when
I was married.
Mr. SPECTER. November of what?
Mr. PETERSON. 19—excuse me, 1946.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your birthday?
Mr. PETERSON. February 14, 1924.
Mr. SPECTER. Where were you born?
Mr. PETERSON. Brooklyn, NY.
Mr. SPECTER. Where have you lived since the time you were born?
Mr. PETERSON. Let’s see, now. I have lived in Flatbush, Rogers Avenue,
649 Rogers Avenue, and——
Mr. SPECTER. Until when?
Mr. PETERSON. Wait a minute. Before that, 280 19th Street, Brooklyn,
N.Y.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you live in Brooklyn altogether?
Mr. PETERSON. The family; all our lives. Me, I went in the service,
came out, went to Jacksonville, Fla.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you live in Brooklyn until you went into the service?
Mr. PETERSON. Right.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you go into the service?
Mr. PETERSON. 1941.
Mr. SPECTER. How long were you in the service?
Mr. PETERSON. 1945.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you live after leaving the service?
Mr. PETERSON. 1946 I went to—back home.
Mr. SPECTER. Brooklyn?
Mr. PETERSON. Right.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you live in Brooklyn after 1946?
Mr. PETERSON. Let’s see. I guess a period about up until 1950.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you live after 1950?
Mr. PETERSON. New Orleans.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you live in New Orleans?
Mr. PETERSON. Three years.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you live after that?
Mr. PETERSON. Jacksonville, Fla. No; wait a minute. I didn’t go to
Jacksonville, Fla. I visited Jacksonville, went to New Orleans, then
from New Orleans, Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. When?
Mr. PETERSON. 1950, 1951, 1952.
Mr. SPECTER. Let’s go back to 1950. You were living in Brooklyn at that
time?
Mr. PETERSON. Just before that.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you go then in 1950?
Mr. PETERSON. To New Orleans. Now, approximately—probably it was the
end of 1950 because 1951 was so close.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you live in New Orleans?
Mr. PETERSON. Two and a half to three years, and then I went to Dallas,
Tex. I lived there ever since.
Mr. SPECTER. In what year did you move to Dallas?
Mr. PETERSON. About the end of 1953 or 1954.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you live thereafter in Dallas, Tex.?
Mr. PETERSON. Up to now. I went to—let’s see, now. I went to Houston
with the show last February. Up until last February I was in Dallas,
Tex. I was in the show in Houston, February, March, April, May,
June-January, February, March, then came here.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your occupation at the present time?
Mr. PETERSON. Producer.
Mr. SPECTER. Of what?
Mr. PETERSON. Coproducer of musical shows with Breck Wall.
Mr. SPECTER. Where are you employed right now?
Mr. PETERSON. Castaways Casino.
Mr. SPECTER. Here in Las Vegas?
Mr. PETERSON. Right. In Las Vegas.
Mr. SPECTER. How long have you been in show business?
Mr. PETERSON. Since about 1959.
Mr. SPECTER. How long have you known Mr. Breck Wall?
Mr. PETERSON. Since 1959.
Mr. SPECTER. How long, if at all, did you know Jack Ruby?
Mr. PETERSON. I knew Jack Ruby—let me think, now. Probably it was the
last part of 1961 and we did one show there at his club. I believe it
was 1961. I’m trying to figure. We went back to the Adolphus in 1962.
It was probably in 1961.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say “one show,” what do you mean by that?
Mr. PETERSON. Did a musical revue called Sticks and Stones there.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did that last?
Mr. PETERSON. Lasted about 2 or 3 months, I guess. We had problems.
Mr. SPECTER. What problems did you have?
Mr. PETERSON. Well, a lot of disagreements. At the time Jack was
changing the club from a—he was reopening it. It was called the
Sovereign. He was making it into a private club. He wanted to do
something different. We were successful across the street with our
revue. He talked to us about putting the show up there, going 50-50 on
a business basis with the club which we never received anything about.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever enter into an agreement with Jack Ruby
wherein you were to have a 50-50 interest in it?
Mr. PETERSON. Yes; this was written up with Vic Victorson, his attorney.
Mr. SPECTER. Victorson?
Mr. PETERSON. Yes; Victor Victorson.
Mr. SPECTER. How do you spell that?
Mr. PETERSON. Victorson.
Mr. SPECTER. V-i-c-t-o-r-s-o-n?
Mr. PETERSON. Yes; the agreement was with him. It never held up though.
We got nothing.
Mr. SPECTER. You never received any interest in the club?
Mr. PETERSON. Not a thing.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever endeavor to enforce that agreement?
Mr. PETERSON. Yes; the only thing we ever got out of it was through a
loan. I think Breck borrowed $300 to go to New York on a business trip.
That is all the money we received out of it.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever try to make Jack Ruby live up to the
agreement in any other way?
Mr. PETERSON. There was no use. Jack Ruby, in spite of our
disagreements, he was kind of good natured in a way. The best thing to
do was to bow out quietly.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you first meet Jack Ruby in approximately September
1961, when you played “Sticks and Stones”?
Mr. PETERSON. About that time; a little before that he came up to visit
us at the club.
Mr. SPECTER. When was that?
Mr. PETERSON. September of 1960. Sometime around in there. He came up
like a lot of club owners do. I think when we reopened the club he came
up and visited us. We were introduced to him as Jack Ruby. That was all.
Mr. SPECTER. After you terminated your business relationship with him
when the show “Sticks and Stones” ended, how frequently, if at all, did
you see him thereafter?
Mr. PETERSON. He came and visited us quite a lot at the Century Room.
He would come in when he had guests, big-shot type of thing, wanted to
be recognized. He was very nice.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have a cordial relationship notwithstanding your
prior difficulties?
Mr. PETERSON. Right; right. Like I say, it was best to keep everything
on a hello-goodbye basis.
Mr. SPECTER. How frequently did you see him after 1962?
Mr. PETERSON. Well, normally, like bump into him. It was only across
the street. We were living at the Adolphus. Back and forth. It’s hard
to tell how many times.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever have any more business dealings with him?
Mr. PETERSON. No; once we went into bankruptcy, Breck and I, and like
when all friendship failed we went to Jack Ruby and he came through. He
was real fine. Loaned us money. We paid him back.
Mr. SPECTER. How much money did he loan you?
Mr. PETERSON. It wasn’t exactly a loan. It was a thing, holding on
costumes we had for the show. It was $400.
Mr. SPECTER. To your knowledge did Jack Ruby have any association with
any of the criminal elements?
Mr. PETERSON. Well, if you want to go by hearsay, yes; but actually I
don’t know of any. In fact he was in thicker with the police in Dallas
than anybody else I knew of because they were always in his place.
Mr. SPECTER. What hearsay are you referring to?
Mr. PETERSON. I am talking about any hearsay. Because of his character
automatically people would take him as a thug.
Mr. SPECTER. What aspect of his character would cause people to do that?
Mr. PETERSON. Outward appearance.
Mr. SPECTER. Anything besides outward appearance?
Mr. PETERSON. No; Jack, in spite of our differences, he was a nice, a
good man.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever see him associate with any of the criminal
element personally?
Mr. PETERSON. No; no.
Mr. SPECTER. To your knowledge was Jack Ruby a member of any
organization which advocated the forceful overthrow of the U.S.
Government?
Mr. PETERSON. No.
Mr. SPECTER. To your knowledge was any member of his family a member of
any such organization?
Mr. PETERSON. I know nothing about his family except I had met his
sister.
Mr. SPECTER. To your knowledge were any of his friends or associates
members of any subversive organization?
Mr. PETERSON. No; not to my knowledge.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you see Jack Ruby most recently prior to November
22, 1963?
Mr. PETERSON. I guess it was before we went to Galveston. Sometime
before then. I couldn’t peg it down. I’m sure we saw him. Like I say,
we saw him on the street there. Next thing was the call and that was it.
Mr. SPECTER. You don’t recall seeing him specifically on any special
date prior to the day of the assassination?
Mr. PETERSON. No; I don’t.
Mr. SPECTER. But you do think, in a general way, you must have seen him
because he was in the area?
Mr. PETERSON. Right.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall the day of the assassination?
Mr. PETERSON. Oh, yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Tell me as specifically as you can recollect what you did
on that day?
Mr. PETERSON. Well, there was going to be the parade. We went down and
stood on the marquee of the Adolphus Hotel. We were there with some
newspaper people we knew and everybody at the hotel. The President
passed by. We came back in the lobby. Next thing we knew we heard on
the television he had been shot. That was it.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do next; if anything?
Mr. PETERSON. As well as I can remember either we called or went
upstairs, told the rest of the kids in the cast, those that weren’t
out. Just astonishment. Everybody was in the lobby just moving around.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you leave the hotel on that day?
Mr. PETERSON. No.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you go to sleep that night, if you recall?
Mr. PETERSON. Well, that night we didn’t have a show. I don’t believe
we had a show. No; we didn’t have a show that night. They canceled it
for three nights. That is when we went to Galveston.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you go to Galveston specifically?
Mr. PETERSON. Let me think. When was the 22d? What day was that?
Mr. SPECTER. The 22d was a Friday.
Mr. PETERSON. It was that night.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you go to Galveston Friday or Saturday?
Mr. PETERSON. I’m not sure whether it was Friday or Saturday because
they canceled the show. I think it might have been the next day. I
don’t know. I could not be sure.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recollect what you did next day before you went to
Galveston; if in fact it was that day you went to Galveston?
Mr. PETERSON. The next day before we went to Galveston?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes; you have told me—let’s go back to Friday. You told me
you stayed around the hotel the balance of that day.
Mr. PETERSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Then you say you went to Galveston either Friday or
Saturday?
Mr. PETERSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Tell me, to the best of your recollection, everything that
you did before you went to Galveston from the time of the assassination
on.
Mr. PETERSON. Well, we stayed at the hotel, found out if they were
going to have a show; that is why I think it was Friday now, asking
Andy Anderson. I think we picked up and left that night.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any telephone calls that day?
Mr. PETERSON. Breck might have called his mother in Galveston. I don’t
know.
Mr. SPECTER. What are the names of the people you refer to as his
mother and father?
Mr. PETERSON. Mr. and Mrs. Tom McKenna.
Mr. SPECTER. They are not his real parents though?
Mr. PETERSON. No; they raised him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make a phone call to Emerson 1-4534 on the day of
the assassination?
Mr. PETERSON. Emerson 1-4534. Who was it? I don’t remember the number.
Mr. SPECTER. I am not able to give that to you, Mr. Peterson.
Mr. PETERSON. Well, then I can’t remember that.
Mr. SPECTER. How about Riverside 2-6811?
Mr. PETERSON. Riverside 2-6811? I don’t know that number either.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall any telephone calls which you made on
November 22 or 23?
Mr. PETERSON. No; like I say, the only calls I probably made were
around the hotel.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arrive at Galveston; to the best of your
recollection?
Mr. PETERSON. If we left Friday it takes 4 hours. We probably left
about, maybe 5, 6. Got there about 11 or 12.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do after arriving in Galveston?
Mr. PETERSON. Made ourselves at home like we always do.
Mr. SPECTER. Who was there when you arrived?
Mr. PETERSON. Mr. and Mrs. McKenna; the family.
Mr. SPECTER. Anybody besides Mr. and Mrs. McKenna?
Mr. PETERSON. No; I don’t think so. I don’t remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any telephone calls from Galveston?
Mr. PETERSON. I don’t think so.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Wall make any telephone calls?
Mr. PETERSON. Somebody called us, newspaper people, I think, out of
Washington, some magazine wanted to know some stuff, I think.
Mr. SPECTER. What magazine was that?
Mr. PETERSON. I have no idea. Some newspaper.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall specifically the name of the man who called
you?
Mr. PETERSON. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to him?
Mr. PETERSON. I think I did. Yes; I did talk to him. That is why I
remember. I’m trying to think.
Mr. SPECTER. To the best of your recollection tell me specifically what
you said to him and what he said to you?
Mr. PETERSON. Well, just wanted to know—let me see. Was it there or
was it at the hotel? They wanted a—Time, I think it was Time, or Life,
because the man in Life is located in Dallas. He just wanted to know if
we had any pictures with Jack Ruby or anything we had done for a story.
I told him we did not have anything. Didn’t bother with it.
Mr. SPECTER. While you were in Galveston did you receive any other
telephone calls?
Mr. PETERSON. Yes; I’m trying to think. Somebody from some newspaper;
I believe it was in Washington. Some magazine or some newspaper. Breck
probably will remember better than I do. He has a better memory. They
wanted some information on Jack Ruby. I couldn’t give them any.
Mr. SPECTER. Aside from that call, did Breck Wall receive any telephone
call while you were in Galveston?
Mr. PETERSON. I think he did.
Mr. SPECTER. From whom?
Mr. PETERSON. Well, the only one was from Jack Ruby.
Mr. SPECTER. Tell me about that call?