Mr. RUBY. You mean in my possession?
Mr. HERNDON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you insert in there—“at the jail”—“did you have a
gun with you when you went to the Friday midnight press conference at
the jail?”
Mr. ALEXANDER. If you put it in his car or on his person, I think he
can answer it better.
Mr. RUBY. No—because I recall when I first said I did, and then I
changed it later.
Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Ruby, so you understand what I mean when I say “Did
you have a gun with you?” I mean on the person.
I’m going to ask this question which one of the gentlemen recommended,
and it is, “Have you told the Warren Commission the entire truth?”
Mr. RUBY. Yes; and I may have left out certain things because I was a
little—I wasn’t as calm as I am now, so in reality, certain things I
could have said, I’m sure in my frame of mind now I would be able to do
it better, but I told the truth at the time.
Mr. SPECTER. Perhaps we could rephrase it and say, “Is everything you
told the Warren Commission the truth?”
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I can say that.
Mr. HERNDON. The question will be then, as Mr. Specter put it, “Is
everything you told the Warren Commission the entire truth?”
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HERNDON. Any questions, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HERNDON. Fine; I will proceed.
(Reporter’s note: 7:15 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. For the record, this will be series No. 7.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Alexander and Mr. Tonahill have now left the room.
Mr. RUBY. I wonder why Mr. Tonahill is here. He’s not my attorney.
Clayton, is Joe Tonahill representing me?
Mr. FOWLER. Well Jack, in some capacity, I think he is still involved.
Mr. RUBY. Well—yes and no.
Mr. FOWLER. But please don’t worry about it at this time. He is here.
Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Ruby, do you mind if I tighten the rubber tube on your
chest just a slight bit more?
Mr. RUBY. Make it as tight as you want it. I want to get it right.
Mr. HERNDON. No; I don’t want to make it too tight, I want to make it
comfortable.
Mr. RUBY (addressing Mr. Holman). Are you coming to work tomorrow? I
don’t know where you’ll find me. How about you, chief?
Mr. HOLMAN. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. All right, now just breathe naturally and sit up a little
bit straighter. That’s good. That’s fine, Mr. Ruby.
(Reporter’s note: 7:15 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. Just relax. [At this point Mr. Herndon snapped his fingers
twice.]
I will tell you once again when the test will begin. Answer the
questions truthfully “Yes” or “No.” Try to sit perfectly relaxed and
try not to move. Look straight ahead, if you will, Mr. Ruby.
Did you just have a gas pain or something trouble you?
Mr. RUBY. No; nothing.
Mr. HERNDON. All right, relax. We will now begin.
(Reporter’s note: 7:18 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. “Do you intend to answer these questions truthfully?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes; I do.”
Mr. HERNDON. Just answer the questions “Yes” or “No,” please.
Mr. RUBY. OK.
Mr. HERNDON. “Did you go to the Dallas police station at any time on
Friday, November 22, 1963, before you went to the synagogue?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Do you attend the synagogue regularly?”
Mr. RUBY. How can I answer that one?
Mr. HERNDON. Just relax. “Did you go to the synagogue that Friday
night?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes”.
Mr. HERNDON. “Do you pray?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes”.
Mr. HERNDON. “Did you see Oswald in the Dallas jail on Friday night?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes”.
Mr. HERNDON. “Were you at one time employed by a union?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes”.
Mr. HERNDON. “Did you have a gun with you when you went to the Friday
midnight press conference at the jail?”
Mr. RUBY. “No”.
Mr. HERNDON. “Is everything you told the Warren Commission the entire
truth?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes”.
Mr. HERNDON. That series is over. Just sit still for a moment, Mr.
Ruby, and I will release the pressure on your arm, and you may now move.
(Reporter’s note: 7:21 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. At the beginning of that series, Mr. Ruby, you displayed
a little nervousness and a little tension. Perhaps it was the question
I asked with regard to the synagogue. Did that upset you in any way?
Mr. RUBY. Because—you’re ashamed to admit you haven’t been going
regular—yet, you don’t want to come out with a blunt answer “No”—it
makes you sort of an atheist, and I didn’t want to answer it that way,
but I do go to the high holidays, but going regular and going to the
high holidays are two different ways of going. People that go regular
go every Friday night and pretty regular during the week, but my hours
were entirely different. I mean—I’m trying to explain that to you.
Mr. HERNDON. Yes; that’s what I want you to do. Go ahead, sir.
Mr. RUBY. I could say “Yes” and I would be lying to you saying “Yes”.
Anyway, the last couple of years—the last year and a half or 2 years
have been very tough to me businesswise and I’ve stayed pretty close,
outside the high holidays.
Mr. HERNDON. Did that question disturb you in any regard when I asked,
“Did you go to the Dallas police station at any time on Friday——”
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. “Before you went to the synagogue?” You did show some
reaction, will you tell me that, sir?
Mr. RUBY. Because I knew that some man in the trial said I did come
down there, and naturally, that came flashing into my mind.
Mr. HERNDON. Was this some man at the trial?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. Did he testify?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; Mr. John Rutledge. He said I was down there earlier,
when I wasn’t—and the association of this man came to my mind. Can you
ask me that over again?
Mr. HERNDON. I don’t think I have to, Mr. Ruby. I wanted to get your
explanation of why. Did you feel a reaction to that question?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; because it’s like the Wall Street Journal question—when
you asked me that. I get nervous too. When they said they found it in
my car, there must be some reason that it was found in my car, when I
know I never did see this particular paper.
Mr. HERNDON. Well, at this trial Mr. John Rutledge’s testimony
conflicted with what you had said, is that correct?
Mr. SPECTER. Not what he said, Mr. Herndon. He didn’t testify.
Mr. RUBY. He testified emphatically—it looked like I was trying to find
out who this Oswald was, and if I went down there more than once.
Mr. HERNDON. I see. You did feel the reaction on that question?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. I think we can proceed on to the next series.
Mr. SPECTER. We’re now at series 8, correct?
Mr. HERNDON. The next series will be 8, correct.
(Reporter’s note: 7:23 p.m.)
Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show that Mr. Alexander and Mr. Tonahill
have returned now.
Mr. HERNDON. Are you all right, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. We shall continue, and these are questions we want to put
to you for this next series.
“Have you ever knowingly attended any meetings of the Communist Party
or any other group that advocates violent overthrow of the Government?”
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HERNDON. Now, is that question too long for you to answer it
clearly?
Mr. RUBY. No; no.
Mr. HERNDON. Of course, there are two parts there—the Communist
Party or any other group that advocates the violent overthrow of the
Government—do you understand the question?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; very much so.
Mr. HERNDON. And then I will ask you, “Did you legally change your last
name?”
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. I’m going to ask you again at the beginning of the test,
“Is your last name Ruby?” I’m going to ask, “Do you know if any of
your immediate family or any close friend is a member of the Communist
Party?”
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HERNDON. “Were you in the Army Air Corps?”
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. “Do you know if any of your immediate family or any close
friend is a member of any group that advocates the violent overthrow of
the Government?”
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Let’s rephrase those, Mr. Herndon. “To your knowledge, is
any member of your family——”
Mr. HERNDON. Rather than “Do you know——”.
Mr. RUBY. Why don’t you put it stronger—ask me the question without—to
my knowledge—the answer is “No”. When you say—to my knowledge—you leave
an opening there.