Mr. RUBY. No, Fowler——

Mr. FOWLER. Well, I’m thinking of you now. I’m asking you to do this,

and again, this is entirely up to you, so it’s your decision. I think I

have fully explained to you the reason why we would not want him here.

Mr. RUBY. Now, I’ve got the monkey on my back now.

Mr. FOWLER. Well, you’ve got more than a monkey on your back, Jack.

This is your decision.

(Conference between Mr. Fowler and Mr. Ruby out of the hearing of this

reporter and others in the room.)

Mr. RUBY. Well, whatever my attorney suggests, I guess I will have to

follow through.

Mr. SPECTER. Your request then is that Mr. Alexander not be present?

Mr. RUBY. Yes.

Mr. ALEXANDER. That will be fine.

Mr. SPECTER. If it is all right with you, we will proceed on that

basis, but of course, that will go only for the time the test is

actually being administered to you.

Mr. FOWLER. That’s right.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Bell Herndon will now start to explain the proceedings

to you. He is the operator of the polygraph, the principal operator

here, Mr. Ruby. As I explained to you, Mr. Herndon and Mr. Wood, are

joint operators for the FBI on the polygraph or lie detector test and

Mr. Herndon will take over now to explain just how it’s going to work.

Mr. HERNDON. Thank you. Mr. Ruby, first of all, I want to show you my

credentials so you will know that I am a special agent and I am from

the FBI laboratory in Washington, D.C. (Exhibited instruments to Mr.

Ruby.)

Mr. RUBY. Yes.

Mr. HERNDON. Perhaps to set the record straight, Mr. Specter, I might

mention that my colleague, Special Agent Wood, is not actually a

polygraph examiner, but he is here to assist me in this examination. Is

that all right?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes, that’s fine to specify that exact status.

Mr. HERNDON. He is here to assist me and to help me in the

interrogation of this gentleman.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Herndon, before you start on the questioning, we will

want to put Mr. Ruby under oath, so pause at that point, but proceed

now to explain what is going to happen.

Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Ruby, actually prior to any polygraph examination

which the Federal Bureau of Investigation gives to anyone, we have a

consent form that I want to read to you, and as I want to remind you,

of course, you have been advised of your rights, and there is no sense

of my going over it again, but I want to remind you that your counsel

and your attorneys are here.

I will now read to you this consent form that we use as a standard

procedure on this type of examination.

“Consent to Interview with Polygraph. I, Jack L. Ruby”—I believe that’s

the way you sign your name?

Mr. RUBY. Yes.

Mr. HERNDON. “I, Jack L. Ruby, consent freely and voluntarily to be

interviewed by special agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation,

which I also know as the FBI, in connection with the President’s

Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy investigation. I

agree to the use of the polygraph or so-called lie detector during this

interview or any part of it, and I am willing to be present at the time

and place of interview for such time as is necessary to complete the

interview.

“No threats or promises of any kind have been made to me to obtain my

consent to this interview.”

Now, I can let you read that if you would like or your attorney might

like to read it.

Mr. RUBY. That’s perfectly all right.

Mr. HERNDON. If it’s agreeable with you, I would appreciate it if you

would sign it, Mr. Ruby, if that’s agreeable with your counsel?

Mr. RUBY. Yes.

Mr. HERNDON. And Mr. Wood and I will witness that.

Mr. RUBY. Do you want it “Jack Ruby” or “Jack L. Ruby”?

Mr. HERNDON. You sign it as you usually sign, but do you want to read

it any further, sir?

Mr. RUBY. I’ll just sign it.

(Mr. Ruby at this time signed the instrument referred to, which was

thereafter signed by witnesses Special Agents Herndon and Wood.)

Mr. RUBY. Did you get your pants sewed up, Joe?

Mr. TONAHILL. It went through to my leg.

Mr. RUBY. That was a pretty rough brawl we had, wasn’t it, Joe?

Mr. TONAHILL. Yes.

Mr. RUBY. Joe, I’d appreciate it if you weren’t in the room. Can I ask

you to leave, Joe?

Mr. TONAHILL. I’ll be glad to leave, if you want me to, Jack.

Mr. RUBY. As a matter of fact, I prefer Bill Alexander to you, you’re

supposed to be my friend.

Mr. TONAHILL. Let the record show that Mr. Ruby says he prefers Bill

Alexander being here during this investigation, who is the assistant

district attorney who asked that a jury give him the death sentence, to

myself, who asked the jury to acquit him, his attorney.

Mr. HERNDON. May we proceed?

Mr. SPECTER. Please do, Mr. Herndon.

Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Ruby, as you know, we have a doctor here, and before

we begin anything, I want you to try to relax. I realize that there is

some tension here, and before we proceed any further, I want to ask

you very generally, how do you feel today, right now, specifically

speaking?

Mr. RUBY. Very good, except—may I be very honest?

Mr. HERNDON. Of course.

Mr. RUBY. What is the preference of the doctor being here? Is he

supposed to be my doctor, I mean Dr. Beavers?

Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Specter, do you want to answer that?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes; Mr. Ruby, he is here at the request of Mr. Tonahill,

and I believe concurred in, by your chief counsel, Mr. Fowler.

Mr. HERNDON. The reason I asked you about your health, Mr. Ruby,

obviously I don’t want to proceed with this interrogation of the

polygraph type when you obviously may not feel well physically today.

I wouldn’t want to subject you to the examination unless you felt well

enough to take it, and I will ask you some very general questions about

your health in regard to your history in that regard.

Have you every had any respiratory diseases or illnesses such as asthma

or trouble with breathing, Mr. Ruby?

Mr. RUBY. None whatever.

Mr. HERNDON. Any sinus condition or trouble?

Mr. RUBY. No.

Mr. HERNDON. Have you ever had any heart ailments?

Mr. RUBY. No, sir.

Mr. HERNDON. No heart trouble to your knowledge.

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