Mr. HUBERT. Just answer my question, I think you can answer my question.
Mrs. GRANT. I have been there several times in front of a judge and my
mother was there and the kids were there, and truthfully, it’s all so
vague I can’t remember.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember that in his youth Jack was called by the
nickname “Sparky”?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you tell us how he acquired that name?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, there was a horse called “Sparky” that was the
slowest darn horse you ever saw and it was a joke, you know, in the
funny papers, and they would rib him about him. Jack was short and fat
and stocky. He wobbled when he walked, from the time I remember he was
5 years old, until the time he was 8, and it seemed shortly after that
he acquired that name and that burned him up, and from then on he has
become very fast with his fists and he started hitting fellows—well—the
fellows who probably kept calling him “Sparky”, let’s say, but these
were all little boys—8, 9, 11 or 10.
Mr. HUBERT. And that’s how he got the name “Sparky”?
Mrs. GRANT. As much as I remember.
Mr. HUBERT. From two sources—from the horse named “Spark Plug” or the
comic strip that had a horse named “Spark Plug” and from the fact that
he, as a child, reacted quickly to taunts of his young friends?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, he changed, but the name stuck with him still.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; I understand that, but we are just talking about how
he acquired the name.
Mrs. GRANT. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How would you describe the neighborhood in which you were
raised, generally, and the conditions under which you were generally
raised?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, when you discuss people who come from the old
country, that was the best neighborhood they could afford to live in.
Two doors down were some very wealthy people—the Katzen family. My
father was a carpenter and he worked—he tried to work all the time.
There wasn’t work always available, but it was considered a poor
neighborhood, but I’ll tell you—went with him four blocks away to look
over other neighborhoods.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, as you recall it now, would you classify it as a good
neighborhood, or a bad neighborhood, or what? Because, you see, we are
trying to get some background information here.
Mrs. GRANT. Okay. We lived in a block where the houses have two-story
buildings. In one block between the both sides I will say there was
150 children between the ages of 4 and 15, because these families have
large groups and most of the families have 6 children or 8 and some of
them had 12.
Mr. HUBERT. You are familiar with the modern term “a slum
neighborhood,” would you characterize it like that?
Mrs. GRANT. Not really a slum because those who had more money next
door lived better, but there were worse neighborhoods. I don’t know how
much worse. I admit to you often we talked about it. I don’t say the
middle class people lived there. It was below the middle class, but yet
it wasn’t the poorest class.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you marry, Mrs. Grant?
Mrs. GRANT. I married March 30, 1930, to Hyman Magid in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. And I think there was a child born of this marriage?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, yes; that’s Ronnie Magid.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, that child is what age?
Mrs. GRANT. He will be 33 next month.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were divorced from Mr. Magid?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes; I was.
Mr. HUBERT. What year?
Mrs. GRANT. I think it was 1934 in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. What was Mr. Magid’s, your husband’s, occupation?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, you really want to know—that’s a catchy question. He
went into business with his father and his father owned a meat market,
but that was later on. He really took up—he was a college graduate and
he did electrical work, but he never worked at it. He didn’t adapt
himself to it for some reason or other.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he do for a living, then?
Mrs. GRANT. As far as I know he was a butcher.
Mr. HUBERT. No; I mean at that time.
Mrs. GRANT. He went to school when I married him and after that he
worked with his father.
Mr. HUBERT. In a butcher shop?
Mrs. GRANT. That’s right, it was during the depression.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you live during the time of your marriage?
Mrs. GRANT. I lived with my mother-in-law on Kolin Avenue.
Mr. HUBERT. In Chicago?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, after your divorce, I think you went to the west
coast, is that correct?
Mrs. GRANT. Jack went there first.
Mr. HUBERT. What year was that?
Mrs. GRANT. I think it was in 1934 in January, I mean, it seems to me
it was that year.
Mr. HUBERT. You had been divorced?
Mrs. GRANT. That’s when he went there. I didn’t go there until later.
Mr. HUBERT. Jack went first?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes, he did.
Mr. HUBERT. And he must have been a man about 21 or 22 at that time?
Mrs. GRANT. It could be.
Mr. HUBERT. This was in 1934?
Mrs. GRANT. Don’t hold me to 1934 or 1935. I’m so confused. I know it
was either one of the years, and he went there right after the first of
the year, and I followed 6 months later.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know why he went there?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes, he went to work. There was no work in Chicago and
there was boys out there that said there was jobs—that there was a lot
of jobs available in San Francisco.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you live with him when you went out?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, yes—yes, I did; we occupied an apartment.
Mr. HUBERT. It was you and Jack and your son?
Mrs. GRANT. My son—I put him in a private school and Jack helped me pay
for him.
Mr. HUBERT. What was Jack’s occupation on the west coast?
Mrs. GRANT. He got a newspaper crew—sometimes he worked for the Call
Bulletin, which is a famous Hearst paper, the Examiner, and sometimes
he gave us the crew and he worked for the—there was a news—it was
called the San Francisco News and sometimes we worked for the
Chronicle. You see, there is a system——
Mr. HUBERT. Well, when you say you worked for them, in what capacity?
Mrs. GRANT. We solicited for subscriptions door to door. It was during
the height of the depression.
Mr. HUBERT. This was sort of a door-to-door operation that you and he
had, was it?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, he was a better salesman. He was always guiding me,
you know, let me put it this way—there was good money in it considering
the times, because they were paying 90 cents an order and we would go
out and get 8 or 10 or 15 orders a day, which you couldn’t get in any
other job, and our obligations were great. My son’s expenses were $65
a month and my brother helped support half of the fellows that didn’t
work—who wouldn’t do this.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say your “brother” you mean Jack?
Mrs. GRANT. I mean Jack—Jack was the only one out there.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you leave California?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, I married Frank Grant in San Francisco in 1936, and I
think we stayed around another year or a year and a half.
Mr. HUBERT. But did you still reside with Jack then after you married?
Mrs. GRANT. For a while he did—yes, he did.
Mr. HUBERT. He lived with you?
Mrs. GRANT. We had a four-room apartment and my son was home then with
us.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Jack have any other occupations during the time you
were on the west coast other than that which you have described?
Mrs. GRANT. I don’t remember out there anything but for the newspapers,
you know, and first he came to Los Angeles and he nearly starved to
death. He became a singing waiter and someone told him—well, he said he
was on his way to San Francisco but I think he didn’t have enough money
or gas to get there—to San Francisco.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you subsequently divorced from Frank Grant?
Mrs. GRANT. Now—I’m divorced many years.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes, ma’am; that’s what I wanted to get. When were you
divorced?
Mrs. GRANT. I think I filed in 1941.
Mr. HUBERT. But you left the west coast about what—1937?
Mrs. GRANT. No, I didn’t. I went down to Los Angeles with Frank Grant
and I lived there. I may have went home on a trip to Chicago, which I
did very often.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you leave the west coast permanently?
Mrs. GRANT. I think it was after the war broke out.
Mr. HUBERT. When did Jack leave the west coast?
Mrs. GRANT. He already left.
Mr. HUBERT. About what year, do you remember?
Mrs. GRANT. He may have left before 1940, but you see, he came back so
many times and he and a fellow by the name of Harry Epstein started to
sell premium items—a cedar chest with candy, if I remember, and they
developed a company—I think it was called the Spartan Co.—the Spartan
Novelty Co.
Mr. HUBERT. That was Jack and this fellow Epstein?
Mrs. GRANT. Harry Epstein—that’s as well as I remember.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember any of these other friends?
Mrs. GRANT. Who do you want me to remember?
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t know—you see—you must tell me.
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, you asked me—listen, I know all the fellows we knew in
Chicago and went to school with and grew up with.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, perhaps you could name some of them that you
remember.
Mrs. GRANT. Well, you see, there is a difference of friends and
acquaintances. There are people, you knew, that we just knew they
existed.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I think what we want to know is the friends, of
course, a lot of people you know, but those you would classify as being
friends.
Mrs. GRANT. Well, he was an admirer of Barney Ross that was a good
friend all through the years and Barney fought on the west coast. They
were very close. Let’s see—while we were on the west coast we were very
friendly with Izzy Kaplan, with Frankie Goldstein—you see, these people
all worked in the newspaper—they were all working fellows at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Were they from Chicago originally?
Mrs. GRANT. No; we met them out on the west coast soliciting for
newspapers. In Chicago I could name hundreds of fellows—I don’t know—Al
Kamin, do you know him—is he down on the list? He owned the Marlene
Sales Co. at one time and I think that at one time—now, let me tell
you the story about him. He and Jack were selling premiums and they
went and made a plaque. They invested every dime they could get from
my family, which was $1,500—my sister Marion and Earl—and this plaque,
now, I don’t know if it was in that year or when it was done, but it
was President Roosevelt’s head and they figured for an inducement to
give away, that was a giveaway item. It was worth about $1 retail,
whoever wanted it, but they were selling merchandise and Al Kamin had
a place at 5 North Wabash or 5 South Wabash in Chicago. I don’t know—I
was not there at the time, but I do know this plaque thing existed and
I know another thing that they went into. You know, there were eight
children and anyone who had a buck in the family, they went into a deal
where they made something about this size [indicating], and it told
about Pearl Harbor. I don’t know if you remember seeing that plaque.
They sold quite a bit of them, but to them it was a giveaway. They
sold quite a bit of merchandise—to induce these purchasers, they would
give them 10 or 15 of them. It was like a certificate that the people
shouldn’t forget Pearl Harbor. Now, that could have been—he wasn’t in
the war yet, where Earl and Sammy was already in. He went in, I think,
the last one. I may be wrong. I have forgotten—I’ll be honest about it,
but they were merchandising and this man and he were in business.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, then did you move from the west coast back to Chicago
prior to Pearl Harbor; you did, did you not?
Mrs. GRANT. I was on the west coast—he was gone. He was in Chicago and
I think he was with Harry Epstein, I’m sure, in 1940 and in 1941 when
the war broke out. Now, he has been back to California. Other members
of the family came to visit my son and myself in 1940 and 1941, but he
was already, I think, established with Harry Epstein. Harry would know
something more about this than I do—I don’t remember, but I know they
were selling merchandise.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of any acquaintenance or friends that Jack had
who had been convicted of crimes?
Mrs. GRANT. Name them—I’ll admit to it if I know—yes—let me say this,
we knew undesirable characters that grew up in our neighborhood.
Mr. HUBERT. You remember some of their names?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you state them, please?
Mrs. GRANT. I don’t want it to be in the public library. These fellows
are such nice fellows today, I heard. You know, if these things get
out, they think we are degrading them. We were raised with a lot of
people that become undesirables. They were people that lived in our
neighborhood. Some went to school with us. I know of a fellow getting
killed—he said his name was English—he was a bad character as far as
we knew. He was 16 years old and I think they killed him on a swing
somewhere in the area. We knew the family where they had three boys and
I understand—I’m going to tell you about this family, because I told
the Secret Service, Elmer Moore. His name was Lenny Patrick. Let me
explain—we knew he existed. We never associated with him in our home or
in our business or anything.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s what I wanted to ask you. You see, I have asked you
if these people were your friends or not.
Mrs. GRANT. No; but they are people we know. We know their family—we
see them, “How’s your mother, how’s your sister?”
Mr. HUBERT. But there was no close relationship between Jack and people
with criminal records, is that right? Is that a fair statement?
Mrs. GRANT. If he knew any—maybe—I don’t know whoever went to jail—all
of them.
Mr. HUBERT. No; I’m asking you what you know about it. Let me put it
this way: Do you know of any people who were friendly with Jack, not
merely knew him, but who were friendly with Jack, who you knew and he
knew had a criminal record?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, I wouldn’t say he was unfriendly with them.
Mr. HUBERT. I didn’t ask you that—I’m asking you—was he friendly with
any of them?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, he wasn’t associated socially or in business, yet you
saw them—they were around. If you went to a nightclub or if you went to
a bazaar.
Mr. HUBERT. No; I mean did they come to the home?
Mrs. GRANT. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they come and visit you and such as that?
Mrs. GRANT. No.
Mr. BURLESON. May I inject something in there—Jack didn’t visit in
their home and they didn’t visit in yours and you didn’t have anything
to do with them; is that correct?
Mrs. GRANT. Even their sisters or brothers who were nice, we didn’t
have anything to do with them, yet we knew they turned out to be some
pretty rough characters and I’m not going to deny that—Sam Yeres and
Dave Yeres—let me say this, I knew of more than he knew.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of any contacts that he may have retained with
any of these people after he left the Chicago area?
Mrs. GRANT. We saw them—and we encountered them—we talked.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they come to Dallas?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, no—nobody I know. I know one did—wait a minute—Sam
Yeres did.
Mr. HUBERT. When did he come to Dallas?
Mrs. GRANT. I don’t know—many years ago, but he is since dead and his
brother is in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s take the last 8 or 9 or 10 years.
Mrs. GRANT. He may have died 10 years ago, for all I know.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of any people of the nature or character which
you have described whom Jack may have known in the Chicago district
whom he contacted or who contacted him in the past 10 years—to your
knowledge—if you don’t know, you don’t know.
Mrs. GRANT. If they have, I didn’t know they were here, but I doubt if
he would be friendly with them.
Mr. HUBERT. The answer is that you really don’t know?
Mrs. GRANT. I really don’t.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you want to ask anything about this segment?
Mr. BURLESON. Yes, please.
Mrs. Grant, your father only had one brother, is that correct?
Mrs. GRANT. He had a lot of brothers—they died in the old country. The
only brother that came here as far as I knew was that one.
Mr. BURLESON. Was the one you told us about?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes.
Mr. BURLESON. Now, the juvenile court contacts that you and your
brothers and sisters had were all a result of a broken home and not as
a result of any type of misbehavior?
Mrs. GRANT. There has never been any criminal action in my family as
much as I know.
Mr. BURLESON. Now, as to Jack’s recent last 10 years, you know of no
contacts he has had either in person or by telephone——
Mrs. GRANT. I want to correct that.
Mr. BURLESON. With any person of an undesirable or criminal element?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, the way you look at it—now, the AGVA is a highly
recognized organization in the world—it is the Actor’s Guild and Jack
had a lot of trouble here with certain other nightclub owners. We had
known that a certain individual has upped himself up from racketeering
to this particular organization.
Mr. BURLESON. Who is that individual, do you know that individual’s
name?
Mrs. GRANT. Now, as I know him, he used to be a cocktail lounge
owner and he is in that slip. His name is Jack Yanover. We know his
parents—I’ve known the man 40 years. He’s a man 65 years old.
Mr. BURLESON. He had some type of criminal element?
Mrs. GRANT. Let me tell you—to get into these union deals and
everything, Jack—by the way you know Jack was a union organizer and
became an officer, but the man he was connected with was a highly
reputable lawyer. That’s why they killed him—Leon Cook. Jack himself
never had any connections with gangsters for money, for business, for
sociability. On the other hand, when we saw them we acknowledged them.
When my father died——
Mr. BURLESON. Now, let me bring you up to the last 10 years—do you know
of any telephone contacts Jack has had?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes.
Mr. BURLESON. With whom?
Mrs. GRANT. Here—I’m going to tell you—in the last year he has had so
much aggravation in the club, that he called this Lenny Patrick. That
was the last resort. He figured he might know somebody—this guy is not
a holy man by far.
Mr. BURLESON. Lenny Patrick is not a holy man?
Mrs. GRANT. No: he’s not by far. He’s a gambler.
Mr. BURLESON. Jack called him for what purpose?
Mrs. GRANT. He called him for the purpose to see if he could fix him up
with the union, so he could have amateur night the same as the other
two fellows here.
Mr. BURLESON. It’s something to do with unions?
Mrs. GRANT. That’s right.
Mr. BURLESON. Now, let me ask you this—what about this friend of
Jack’s—this Willie, do you know this man; what do you know about him?