Mrs. GRANT. There is another one.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, go ahead.
Mrs. GRANT. Her brother lived until a couple of years ago. His name
was Harry Rutland, and after he arrived in this country, which is 65
years ago, I would say, or close to that time, he changed his name from
Rutkowfsky to Rutland, and he lived for 45 years in Denver, Colo., and
he died in, let’s say, the last 3 or 4 years, I don’t remember.
Mr. HUBERT. Did the sister that you mentioned come to the United States?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All three of the children?
Mrs. GRANT. At different times they arrived.
Mr. HUBERT. Came to the United States and settled in the United States;
is that right?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there any communication between your mother and her
sisters and brothers after they came here?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. They were your aunts, in fact?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, we were very close when they were alive. Let me say
there was a great family, but they were killed out in Europe.
Mr. HUBERT. All of these people are dead now and have been for some
time?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, turning to your father’s side of the family, what was
your father’s name?
Mrs. GRANT. His name was Joseph Rubenstein.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he have any brothers and sisters?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes; he had a brother that came over 2 years later. His
name was Abraham.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened to him?
Mrs. GRANT. He died 7 years ago or 6 years ago.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he live in the United States?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes; he did, in Chicago.
Mr. BURLESON. He had settled here too, then?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes, he did.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your father’s employment?
Mrs. GRANT. He was a carpenter.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he work for anyone as a regular proposition?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes; he worked for the U.S. Government during World War I.
Baltimore, Md.; he built barracks, he was a union member for 55 years.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he belong to any other clubs?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes—he came from a town called Sokovosolover, Poland.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how to spell that?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, we could never get it right, it’s a case of
“Sokovosolover”—we could never get it right, but there is a town there
by that name and he was born in that town. Let me explain this—his
people, country people, came to this country. From that particular
stay, they formed this club. It was called Verein, and it was a social
meeting or group where all the people from this little town and
families would get together and there are still some in existence,
believe it or not, and probably in Chicago and I have a cousin, my
father’s nephew is still alive. His name is Abraham Rubenstein.
Mr. HUBERT. And this was a club formed in Chicago by the people of this
village who all came to the United States?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes—that’s right, they did come at different times.
Mr. HUBERT. It was a social and cultural get-together?
Mrs. GRANT. It was a social meeting club, where all the people from
this little town and their families could get together and there are
still some in existence believe it or not. And I have a cousin—my
father’s nephew is still alive. His name is Abraham Rubenstein by the
way.
Mr. HUBERT. And this was a club formed in Chicago by the people of this
village who all wanted to enter into the United States?
Mrs. GRANT. That’s right—they had come at different times.
Mr. HUBERT. It was a social and a cultural proposition?
Mrs. GRANT. It was a get-together to know they are alive and they have
bought a cemetery where you can in due time——
Mr. HUBERT. Did you attend any of the meetings?
Mrs. GRANT. Oh, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there anything political about them?
Mrs. GRANT. No—I’m going to tell you.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, just tell me.
Mrs. GRANT. Honest to God, there wasn’t—they drank and they danced.
Mr. HUBERT. But would you answer my question as to whether or not there
was any political activity discussed—the answer is what—yes or no?
Mrs. GRANT. You may write to the man—Abraham Rubenstein, he is still
alive.
Mr. HUBERT. I just want to know whether your impression and your
attendance at the meetings of the club indicate to you whether this
group at any time had any political implication whatsoever?
Mrs. GRANT. No, no; not that I would know of.
Mr. HUBERT. You never observed any? Of any kind?
Mrs. GRANT. Never.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you tell us something of Jack’s youth and education
and his childhood—you were older than he was and therefore, you are
able to observe it, I would think.
Mrs. GRANT. I am 2 years older and how far back do you want to go—do
you want me to go?
Mr. HUBERT. What kind of education did he have?
Mrs. GRANT. I think he went about a year and a half to high school.
Mr. HUBERT. Were your parents separated?
Mrs. GRANT. My parents were separated—yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When did they separate?
Mrs. GRANT. In the spring of 1921.
Mr. HUBERT. That was when Jack was about 10 years old?
Mrs. GRANT. Let’s see, if he was born in 1911—yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who did Jack and you live with—your father or your mother?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, I went to live—my mother has—these people don’t live
there any more, in Maywood, Ill., my mother’s niece—the daughter of
this Sarah Moskowitz, Bertha Miller, I went to live with her for a
while. Then my father took an apartment, such as it was and I went to
live with him for a while, and—you want to know?
Mr. HUBERT. What about Jack himself?
Mrs. GRANT. Now, this is something that there is a haziness about
it—two of my brothers were put on a farm with some people. It seems
to me—I don’t know which two—went to Woodstock, Ill., and one went to
a place called West Chicago or Chicago Heights and I have forgotten
whether Jack was by himself and Earl and Sammy went to a place. Then
later on it seemed to me Jack went to stay with a family, maybe a year
later, called the Michelles—he admired them.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, is it fair to state that apparently the family broke
up; is that correct?
Mrs. GRANT. Yes—well, my mother had a nervous breakdown. That was
the first time, because of the dissension in the home because of my
father’s activities of drinking.
Mr. HUBERT. Is your father an alcoholic?
Mrs. GRANT. Well, he lived until 89—how can we prove it—you know, we
never knew if he was drunk or sober, but he drank plenty.
Mr. HUBERT. When did he die?
Mrs. GRANT. I would say in 1958 or 1959. I have just forgotten now,
I’ll be honest about it.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall whether Jack himself was involved in some
sort of juvenile court proceedings?
Mrs. GRANT. We all were. In the State of Illinois, when parents
separated, I think there is such a thing as you are under the
jurisdiction of the juvenile court, because I went to court several
times. I don’t think—I think I was probably 12 or 13 years old—I don’t
know. I remember going to a very famous court and I can’t think of the
judge’s name.